Ukraine

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Endovelico
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Kiev’s every move undermines the position of the United States
(Source: http://ria.ru/crimea_interview/20150302/1050489532.html)
by Rostislav Ishchenko

(Translated from the Russian by Robin)

In an interview with the radio station Russia Today, Rostislav Ishchenko, President of the Center for Systematic Analysis and Forecasting, talks about who is trying to draw Russia into a military conflict, and why, Crimea’s role in the situation, and the splitting of the Ukraine into separate territories.

In one of your articles, you wrote that the Ukraine was in all likelihood considering some sort of attack on Crimea. What exactly did you mean?

First, I don’t think the Ukraine or even the powers that be in Kiev want to attack Crimea. I believe that even the orders to shoot that [Oleksander] Turchynov allegedly gave the military in February 2014 were a PR move. It’s doubtful whether he gave such orders at that time. And, if he had given them, of the 20,000 soldiers who were in Crimea at that time, someone would have fulfilled them.

Second, as for an attack on Crimea by the Ukraine, I have already said and I’ll repeat it: from my point of view, it’s one of the last ways to start a war with Russia. It’s perfectly clear that, from February to March of last year, they began trying to draw Russia into direct combat in the Ukraine. And it’s clear that the idea came not from Kiev but from Washington.

After the failed attempts to get Russia to send troops to southeast Ukraine in March, April, May, and August, as well as in January of this year, the only more or less justified chance, from the point of view of international law, to instigate a Ukrainian-Russian war is to attempt to play the return-of-Crimea card. And it has been important from the very beginning to ensure that the Ukraine is not seen as the aggressor.

Is the goal of drawing Russia into military operations still on the agenda?

Yes. Now it’s much more difficult to achieve because all the major forces of the Ukrainian army are tied up in the southeast, so Kiev can’t mount an offensive on the isthmus [connecting Crimea to the mainland]. Last summer, they could have. I think the danger of that was quite high. But then another decision was made: the United States tried once again to draw Russia into war, and active military operations began in the southeast. Donetsk and Luhansk were practically under siege. At that point, the goal really was almost achieved, because in that situation Russia could not let the DPR and the LPR be crushed, and if it had not managed to reverse the course of events, troops would have gone to Crimea.

Who benefits from dragging Russia into the war? After all, it’s dangerous for Europe to have fighting right on its doorstep.

The idea of ​​a coup d’état and the most negative unfolding of events, namely a military scenario, clearly does not come from the European politicians. They had no objection to gaining economic control over the Ukraine, which would allow them to pass freely through the Ukrainian market to the Russian and CIS markets. But they had no interest whatsoever in getting into a political and military confrontation with Russia.

On the other hand, the United States, which was clearly not thrilled with the developing economic cooperation between Russia and Europe – cooperation with such great potential that the United States would eventually be crowded out in Europe, first economically and then politically – had a vested interest in having Europe and Russia clash somewhere.

It could not have happened in Poland or Lithuania or even in Belarus – it was possible only in the Ukraine, thanks to the thoroughly inept policies of [Victor] Yanukovych and his government, which tried to continue [Leonid] Kuchma’s outdated “multivector” policy of being friends with, and milking, everyone. This policy created conditions for the emergence of conflicting interests in the EU, Russia and the Ukraine, and they were above all economic.

In other words, European politicians also were not inactive?

European politicians have played a most active role in the situation in the Ukraine: they visited, supported, guaranteed, signed agreements, and organized negotiations. Merkel believed that [Wladimir] Klitschko was guaranteed to be the next president of the Ukraine. But on February 21 the Europeans were cut out. And the very next day the United States took control of the situation in the Ukraine. And all further actions took place on orders from Washington, because any government in Kiev, even the most incompetent, would have clearly understood that what was needed most of all was to stabilize the situation, even if concessions had to be made in Crimea and the southeast. It was the wrong time for the Ukraine to take aggressive action; it was not strong enough, and the government in Kiev was not consolidated, but the Ukraine was literally [sic] being pushed toward a confrontation with Russia.

They also tried to provoke Russia. I’ll give you a simple example: at the beginning of March, when Crimea was not even legally part of Russia, Putin said that Russia would not tolerate terror against the population in the southeast. Immediately units of the Ukrainian army started moving toward the southeast. Two months into the process they still weren’t fully assembled, but nevertheless Kiev said it was starting to conduct antiterrorist operations there. Then came the events in Odessa: brazenly, with television cameras rolling, they killed dozens of people. Then there was firing into Russian territory. Somehow, today we don’t see any shells from Ukrainian territory coming into Russia, but in June and July they were arriving in droves. It’s unlikely the Ukrainian gunners didn’t learn how to shoot until August.

If the shells were reaching Russian territory, someone needed it to happen. If aircraft were violating the airspace of the Russian Federation, someone needed that too. They were making every effort to pull the Russian Federation into the war.

How will the U.S. benefit if Russia is drawn into a military conflict?

How quickly Russian troops might occupy Kiev or even Lvov was of no concern whatsoever to the United States. The main thing was to show that Russia had invaded a sovereign state. Europe would not have been able to remain silent, and in that case the rhetoric and sanctions would have been broader and deeper than now. This would have led to a direct confrontation, severing Europe from Russia for a long time. In addition, it would have caused concern among Russia’s allies in the customs union and the recently created Eurasian Economic Union.

Quite naturally other capitals would start to worry: if you can go into the Ukraine, then why not go into Kazakhstan and Belarus too? Even now, when efforts to propel Europe into a direct confrontation with Russia have failed and are unlikely to succeed, the U.S. is interested in seeing Russian troops in the Ukraine, because they cannot hold onto the Ukraine, and it’s clear that the Kiev government will fall. The longer the government lasts in Kiev, the more money and resources, including political, diplomatic, and economic resources, the U.S. will inevitably lose in propping it up. No one wants to waste resources on what is basically a lost cause. If Russia takes control of the Ukraine, then it will become Russia’s responsibility, politically, economically and financially.

Until then it’s the responsibility of the United States. And each successive move by the Kiev regime, each escalation of the terror is slowly but surely eroding the position of the United States, because sooner or later it will be necessary to admit that they have organized and supported a Nazi regime. And people are talking about this openly in Europe. I think that, by December, the United States realized there would be no direct invasion; anything is possible except a direct invasion.

What, in your opinion, awaits the Ukraine? What is the possible outcome of the situation?

Most likely, there will be another coup in Kiev. It boils down to one simple thing: it’s necessary to remove the last, quasi-legitimate President, [Petro] Poroshenko, who is keeping the various groups from going at one another’s throats. It’s clear that Poroshenko will be overthrown by openly Nazi battalions, and the next government will be even more rigid, resulting in a regime of outright terror.

Then the powers that be won’t be able to maintain complete control over their territory. They will begin to gradually splinter into “principalities,” each with its own troops, and these principalities will engage in conflict with one another. This will destroy what remains of the industrial capacity and will increase the number of refugees flooding into the Russian Federation and the EU, as well as the loss of life, because of the density of the population and the time it will take to disarm these gangs. The question then arises: how do you ensure this “Somalia” doesn’t spread over the borders? It will be primarily Russia’s problem because Europe doesn’t have the military resources.

Is there a way out of this situation? How can order be restored and the cities made secure, if at all possible?

The war will end sooner or later – most likely sooner rather than later, simply because the Ukraine’s economic capacity will not allow it to wage war for long, and its neighbors are not interested in having an endless “Somalia” going on in the Ukraine. Russia’s actions over the past year show that it’s not fighting for Crimea or the Donbass; it’s fighting for all of the Ukraine. I very much doubt whether the Ukraine, even with substantial outside support, will last as an independent state for the next five or 10 years.

It will have to be rebuilt, starting from zero. It would be nonsensical for Russia to create a continually hostile state on its borders. The problem is not whether it is necessary to integrate the Ukraine into the territory of the Russian Federation, but how to do so from the standpoint of international law. It all comes back to the confrontation between the Russian Federation and the United States, because if Russia loses, it will be Russia that is divided. But since I’m sure that the U.S. will lose, or even that it has already lost, it’s just a matter of time and formalities; the framework of international law will change. And within this new framework will be decided the matter of what should be done with the Ukrainian territories and what their legal status will be. The one that rebuilds them will decide their fate and questions of governance, and that will be Russia.
Another thoughtful analysis by a Russian writer. They are definitely smarter than their Western counterparts...
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Alexis
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Alexis »

Now playing on your screens!


Image



Note to Endo, HP, others... this is humour ;)
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Parodite
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

mhEe2PSaEW0

A new Northern Ireland arises.
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YMix
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Re: Ukraine

Post by YMix »

This is bad news all around. If the West steps in to help the Protestants, it will convince every Orthodox nut that Western homosexuals are out to destroy their faith and values.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

The Orthodox churches have always been strongly nationalistic, primarily because of language. Greek, Russian, Serbian - there is a independent Orthodox church for almost every nationality. Religious persecution is always bad, but I am not surprised to see it amplified in a war region where religion and national identity are so closely linked.
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YMix
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Re: Ukraine

Post by YMix »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:The Orthodox churches have always been strongly nationalistic, primarily because of language. Greek, Russian, Serbian - there is a independent Orthodox church for almost every nationality.
That's exactly how they are supposed to be.

Church administration is composed of self-governing ecclesial bodies, each geographically distinct but unified in theology and worship, including four ancient patriarchates of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, eleven autocephalous churches, Cyprus, Sinai, Russia, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, Georgia, Poland, Albania and Czech Republic and Slovakia, and three autonomous churches, Finland, Japan and China.[11]
Religious persecution is always bad, but I am not surprised to see it amplified in a war region where religion and national identity are so closely linked.
Yup.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Parodite
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

Hopefully the Russian Orthodox authorities plus maybe the RCC can talk some sense in these locals.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by YMix »

I don't think you understand what's going on among the Orthodox communities of Eastern Europe and Russia. Let's just say that the mood resembles Mr. Perfect's somewhat. The only advice they're getting from fellow believers is to fight to the last man.

Needless to say, that's exactly how Putin wants them. He can control them indirectly and he can count on them to reject Western depravity and materialism.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

:lol: :lol: .. very funny


Ukraine, a bankrupt country, miles under water .. and this :


From 2009 up to 2013,
the year the Ukrainian crisis erupted,
the Clinton Foundation received at least $8.6 million from the Victor Pinchuk Foundation ..


In 2008, Viktor Pinchuk, who made a fortune in the pipe-building business, pledged a five-year, $29-million commitment to the Clinton Global Initiative, a program that works to train future Ukrainian leaders “to modernize Ukraine.” The Wall Street Journal revealed the donations the fund received from foreigners abroad between 2009-2014 in their report published earlier this week .

.
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Parodite
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

YMix wrote:I don't think you understand what's going on among the Orthodox communities of Eastern Europe and Russia. Let's just say that the mood resembles Mr. Perfect's somewhat. The only advice they're getting from fellow believers is to fight to the last man.

Needless to say, that's exactly how Putin wants them. He can control them indirectly and he can count on them to reject Western depravity and materialism.
You might be right that the ROC is now on a track beyond repair trapped in the pocket of Putin.

Patriarch Kirill’s game over Ukraine
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Endovelico
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Kiev, Moscow, Bonds and Haircuts
March 26, 2015 - Posted by Raúl Ilargi Meijer at 11:19

When money managers talk outside their narrow field, nonsense is guaranteed to ensue. No better example than this Bloomberg piece on Ukraine’s ‘debt restructuring’ plans, which are as much a political tool as they are anything else at all. Ukraine’s American Finance Minister has announced a broad restructuring plan with a wide range of severe haircuts for creditors, and she – well, obviously – wishes to include Russia in the group of creditors who are about to get their heads shaved.

And despite all obvious angles to the issue that are not purely economical, Bloomberg presents a whole array of finance professionals who are free to spout their entirely irrelevant opinions on the topic. If you didn’t know any better, you’d be inclined to think that perhaps Russia is indeed just another creditor to Kiev.

Putin Plays Wildcard as Ukraine Bond Restructuring Talks Begin

As Ukraine begins bond-restructuring talks, it finds itself face-to-face with a familiar foe: Russia. President Vladimir Putin bought $3 billion of Ukrainian bonds in late 2013. The cash was meant to support an ally, then-President Yanukovych.

That is, for starters, a far too narrow way of putting it. Russia simply wanted to make sure Ukraine would remain a stable nation, both politically and economically, because A) it didn’t want a failed state on its borders and B) it wanted to ensure a smooth transfer of its gas sales to Europe through the Ukraine pipeline systems. Whether that would be achieved through Yanukovych or someone else was a secondary issue. Putin was never a big fan of the former president, but at least he kept the gas flowing.

While his government fell just two months later, Russia was left with the securities. Now, those holdings take on an added importance as Putin’s stance on the debt talks could affect the terms that all other bondholders get in the restructuring. Russia, which is Ukraine’s second-biggest bondholder, has maintained that it won’t take part in any restructuring deal. Here are the three most likely tacks – as seen by money managers and analysts – that Putin’s government could pursue.

Here’s the biggest issue here, one which Bloomberg conveniently omits. Not only was Russia left with the securities after the Maidan coup (or revolution if you must), but the money provided through them to Ukraine began to be used to organize and fund various battalions and other groups, thrown together into a Kiev ‘army’, that started aiming for and at the Russian speaking population in East Ukraine. 6000 of them did not survive this.

The same would have happened in Crimea (Moscow is convinced of this) had not Putin made it part of Russia before that could happen. Do note that one of the very first decrees issued by US installed PM Yatsenyuk and his ‘cabinet’ was one that banned Russian to be used as an official language by millions of people who speak only Russian. That Yats withdrew the decree within a week didn’t matter anymore, the game was on right then and there.

Ukraine, after gaining a lifeline from the IMF, included Russia’s bond among the 29 securities and enterprise loans it seeks to renegotiate with creditors before June. Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko has promised not to give any creditor special treatment. The revamp will include a reduction in the coupon, an extension in maturities as well as a cut in the face value, she said.

Russian Deputy Finance Minister Sergey Storchak said March 17 that the nation isn’t taking part in the debt negotiations because it’s an “official” creditor, not a private bondholder. If the Kremlin maintains this view, it would be “negative” for private bondholders as “other investors will be more tempted to hold out as well,” according to Marco Ruijer at ING. He predicts a 45% chance of a hold out, while Michael Ganske at Rogge in London says it’s 70%.


Here’s where we get into la-la land, with money managers speaking out on things they don’t know anything about. Which can then be used to lead up to a goal-seeked conclusion, as we will see. Because of the situation I painted above, Russia cannot and will not take part in the ‘debt negotiations’ the west tries to shove down its throat through Jaresko’s restructuring plans.

If only because as soon as the restructuring has given Kiev some financial breathing space, is will use it to reinforce its troops and go after its Russian speaking compatriots again. It’s a not a finance issue at all, it’s life and death, and that makes percentages thrown around by money guys behind desks in high rises not just futile, but positively inane.

There is little precedence of sovereigns and private bondholders taking part in the same talks, given that a nation’s debt considerations include a “foreign-policy dimension,” according to Matthias Goldmann at the Max Planck Institute in Heidelberg, Germany. Ukraine and Russia may need to find an “appropriate forum,” such as the Paris Club, for separate negotiations, he said.

Holding out can lead to two outcomes: Russia gets paid back in full after the notes mature in December, or Ukraine defaults. The former option is politically unacceptable in Kiev, according to Tim Ash at Standard Bank, while the latter would likely start litigation and delay the borrower’s return to foreign capital markets, which Jaresko expects in 2017. “Russia will be holdouts, to try and force a messy restructuring,” Ash said by e-mail on March 19.


No, Russia is not interested in a ‘messy restructuring’. It will simply refuse to throw Kiev’s aggression against its own people a lifeline, and it will insist on finding that “appropriate forum”, instead of the one Jaresko tries to force it into. Russia will demand to be paid in full, and if that means a Ukraine default, it is fine with that. Don’t forget that the $3 billion in bonds is by no means the only debt Ukraine owes Moscow. There are many billions in unpaid gas purchases, and undoubtedly many other bills.

If Russia holds out and litigates, there is a “real threat” that Ukraine will deem the Eurobond an odious debt, Lutz Roehmeyer at Landesbank Berlin said. This refers to a legal theory that a nation shouldn’t be forced to repay international obligations if they don’t serve the best interests of the country and its citizens.

Nice theory. Why don’t we have Greece use it too? Russia would obviously never accept this. At the very minimum, gas would stop flowing through Ukraine to Europe.

The chance of Russia joining the talks is about 10%, according to ING’s Ruijer and Rogge’s Ganske. If Russia joins it would be “somewhat positive as all investors will be treated equally, and then it can be resolved quicker,” Ruijer said.

These guys really have no idea what’s going on. They see the planet exclusively in dollar terms. And they have no idea why they said 10%, might as well have been 5% or 25%. Hot air.

Bank of America said in a note last week that Ukraine will seek a principal reduction of about 35% in its opening salvo, which may be rejected by creditors. It said that bond valuations around 40 cents on the dollar, indicate a probability of a 20% reduction in principal as well as a reduction in interest rates. Ukraine’s benchmark 2017 dollar notes traded at 37.8 cents on the dollar on Thursday.

Sounds like things in the real world are already much worse than in BoA notes.

“By participating in the talks, Russia would have a better chance of getting a deal it wants,” Liza Ermolenko at Capital Economics, said. “However, it seems that politics, rather than economics, will be behind whatever Russia decides to do.”

No kidding, Liza.

There is no collective-agreement clause which could make any deal binding for Russia, Anna Gelpern, a Georgetown law professor, said.

And there we get to the core of the matter. If Jaresko wants to force anything on Russia, she’ll have to move outside of the law. Which I’m sure she, and the US cabal that rules Kiev, would be more than willing to do, but it would mean a default no matter what happens, simply because time is of the essence, and the issue would drag on for a long time.

The restructuring of each bond must be agreed to by a majority of its holders, according to Olena Zubchenko, a lawyer at Lavrynovych & Partners, a legal adviser to Ukraine during the bond issue to Russia in December 2013. The Eurobonds are governed by English law and traded on the Dublin Exchange. The Russian bond has a covenant allowing the holder to call it if Ukraine’s public debt tops 60% of economic output, which the IMF said took place last year.

Another noteworthy detail: Russia could have called the bonds quite a while ago, but has so far decided against that. They could still do it at any moment, though. And since the IMF has approved another loan to Ukraine recently, and Capitol Hill has agreed to send deadly offensive weapons to Kiev, they have good reason to do it. The Jaresko idea of ‘we will saddle you with losses, so we can go kill more Russian speaking people’ will certainly not appeal to Moscow, not will it be condoned.

“It’s a kind of nuclear option, evaporating their leverage,” Rogge’s Ganske said. “If Russia accelerates, then Ukraine has to pay or default on it — i.e. game over.”

This bond issue is of course just one of many ways in which the west seeks to aggravate Russia. If and/or when the US starts shipping arms to Kiev, and the internal civil war restarts, Russia will have to take measures. Which is exactly what the west has been trying to provoke it to do for at least a full year now. It is therefore Russia’s task to find those measures that take ‘the other side’ by surprise and leaves it scrambling for answers.

Over the past year and change, after the Kiev putsch and the subsequent aggression on the side of the newly installed ‘government’ against its own citizens in East Ukraine, Russia has always insisted on talking about the EU and US as its ‘partners’, even as the language thrown at it deteriorated at a rapid clip. It must already be about a year ago that Hillary Clinton first referred to Putin as Hitler. As for the anti-Moscow utterances by the Kiev ‘government’, let’s not even go there.

The Russians have shown recently that they understand very well what the intentions are behind the NATO build-up and all the hollow accusations and innuendo in the western media. They have also made clear that they are ready and prepared to activate any and all defense systems, including nuclear, at their disposal.

Russia sees the world as one in which multiple major powers can govern together. The US sees Russia as a power that must be defeated by any means necessary, and subdued. One of these worldviews must prevail in the end. Perhaps we won’t know which one that will be until the third power, China, raises its voice. What we do know is that Russia will back down only so far, and then it will no more.

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:D :D :D
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Endovelico
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Ukrainian oligarchs' private armies flex their muscles

The drama began with a seemingly bland piece of legislation on corporate law, then Ukraine's parliament passed a law to strip a prominent billionaire of control of a state company. Then armed men arrived.

Fifty-two-year-old oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskiy didn't take the news lying down. Within hours of the parliamentary vote he mobilized a group of armed men who barricaded themselves in UkrTransNafta's offices in Kyiv.

He returned three days later with members of his Dnepr militias and took control of the company's offices. Interior ministry troops responded and a tense stakeout ensued. It ended at night without shots being fired.

President Petro Poroshenko then announced he had accepted Kolomoiskiy's resignation from the governorship post he'd assumed last year.

No one was hurt despite the rifle-waving and shouting. But it also highlights a disturbing fact - that Ukraine's super-elite command private armies at their disposal whose loyalties are to the men that pay them.

"Oligarchs are the most powerful people in Ukraine," Kateryna Zarembo, deputy director of the Institute of World Policy in Kyiv, told DW. "It's the oligarchs that are subsidizing the politicians and control much of the mass media in the country."
The "democratic" regime US, the EU and NATO are supporting...

Warning: The source of these news is DW (Die Deutsche Welle) http://www.dw.de/ukrainian-oligarchs-pr ... a-18346008, not the RT, so we may assume it is accurate...
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Re: Ukraine

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Deep down I'm very superficial
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

Strong evidence found of separatist involvement in downing of MH17

Flight MH17 seems to have been shot down with a BUK-missile launched by separatists from Ukraine. At least, this is the main scenario that’s being considered by the international investigation team researching the cause of the crash on the afternoon of July 17th, last year.

New video and audio footage were released by the so called Joint Investigation Team (JIT), in which police and public prosecutors from Belgium, Australia, Ukraine, Malaysia and the Netherlands work in tight cooperation to bring the perpetrators of the attack on MH17 to justice.

[...]

OTHER SCENARIO

The Dutch public prosecution underlines that, despite the release of this information, there is still no irrefutable proof that explains the crash. “It is too early to be drawing any conclusions regarding the cause of the crash.” The investigation team is researching another scenario, in which MH17 was the target of an airborne assault. Two other scenarios, a terrorist attack and technical failure, have been ruled out.

[...]
Russian officer recognized on tape in Dutch MH17 investigation

One of the individuals who may have been involved in the downing of flight MH17 according to the Dutch Public Prosecution Service (OM), was recognized by Ukraine as a former high ranking Russian intelligence officer.
It is the first indication that the Dutch Prosecution Service is considering the involvement of high ranking Russian (former) servicemen.

On Monday, the Public Prosecution Service published four tapped telephone conversations from the period surrounding the crash. The service did not reveal the callers’ identities, but explained that the conversations featured “separatists”. On Monday, chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke spoke of “authentic recordings” that “were analyzed through and through”.

[...]
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Endovelico
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Le Monde: Kiev peace accord violation starts to trouble the West
April 03, 15:56

PARIS, April 3. /TASS/. Influential French newspaper Le Monde has told its readers of concern in Paris about a policy U-turn by Ukraine's government over peace in the country's war-torn east, noting that the West is "beginning to voice irritation and reminding that its support is not unconditional".

Kiev's perceived violation of the peace accords signed in Minsk, Belarus, was generating disquiet in the French capital, the daily says, noting the Elysee presidential administration's reaction to the fact that Ukrainian authorities' fail to honour commitments aimed at bringing peace to the embattled Donbas region.

Le Monde quotes a source close to French President Francois Hollande as saying Ukrainian head of state Petro Poroshenko had "failed to push through parliament a law that guarantees holding local elections in the eastern regions and granting special status for them".

"Kiev puts forward conditions which are not stipulated by the Minsk agreements," the paper said.

The Minsk accords envisaged elections and withdrawal of forces "after the beginning of political changes and granting a certain autonomy to Donbas", the paper notes.

"However, law endorsed by the Ukrainian parliament links granting autonomy to Ukraine’s eastern regions to holding local elections and withdrawing illegal armed groups," it adds.

"Such a U-turn only makes the settlement process, complex as it is, even more unstable and very difficult to implement," the paper says.

By acting this way, Kiev gave rise to criticism, with the West "beginning to voice irritation and reminding that its support is not unconditional," it adds.

http://tass.ru/en/world/787079

and for those who mistrust TASS:

http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/20 ... ine&xtcr=7
It may take a while but the West will eventually find out who the Ukrainian leaders are and what they stand for...
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Doc »

Endovelico wrote:
Le Monde: Kiev peace accord violation starts to trouble the West
April 03, 15:56

PARIS, April 3. /TASS/. Influential French newspaper Le Monde has told its readers of concern in Paris about a policy U-turn by Ukraine's government over peace in the country's war-torn east, noting that the West is "beginning to voice irritation and reminding that its support is not unconditional".
What Le Monde said:
Paris believes that Kiev does not fully meet its obligations in the process of political settlement of the conflict in the east.

Kiev's perceived violation of the peace accords signed in Minsk, Belarus, was generating disquiet in the French capital, the daily says, noting the Elysee presidential administration's reaction to the fact that Ukrainian authorities' fail to honour commitments aimed at bringing peace to the embattled Donbas region.

Le Monde quotes a source close to French President Francois Hollande as saying Ukrainian head of state Petro Poroshenko had "failed to push through parliament a law that guarantees holding local elections in the eastern regions and granting special status for them
"Kiev puts forward conditions which are not stipulated by the Minsk agreements," the paper said.

The Minsk accords envisaged elections and withdrawal of forces "after the beginning of political changes and granting a certain autonomy to Donbas", the paper notes.

"However, law endorsed by the Ukrainian parliament links granting autonomy to Ukraine’s eastern regions to holding local elections and withdrawing illegal armed groups," it adds.

".
I don't see that on the Le Monde page

On the TASS page side bar
No prerequisites for elections in Donbas until hardware is pulled back — Merkel


"Such a U-turn only makes the settlement process, complex as it is, even more unstable and very difficult to implement," the paper says.

By acting this way, Kiev gave rise to criticism, with the West "beginning to voice irritation and reminding that its support is not unconditional," it adds.

http://tass.ru/en/world/787079

and for those who mistrust TASS:

http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/20 ... ine&xtcr=7
It may take a while but the West will eventually find out who the Ukrainian leaders are and what they stand for...
We already know who Putin is

9CkdYmHgjUE

AS the closed captions are in Portuguese you should have no problem understanding what is said in the video.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Le Monde: Kiev peace accord violation starts to trouble the West
April 03, 15:56

PARIS, April 3. /TASS/. Influential French newspaper Le Monde has told its readers of concern in Paris about a policy U-turn by Ukraine's government over peace in the country's war-torn east, noting that the West is "beginning to voice irritation and reminding that its support is not unconditional".
What Le Monde said:
Paris believes that Kiev does not fully meet its obligations in the process of political settlement of the conflict in the east.

Kiev's perceived violation of the peace accords signed in Minsk, Belarus, was generating disquiet in the French capital, the daily says, noting the Elysee presidential administration's reaction to the fact that Ukrainian authorities' fail to honour commitments aimed at bringing peace to the embattled Donbas region.

Le Monde quotes a source close to French President Francois Hollande as saying Ukrainian head of state Petro Poroshenko had "failed to push through parliament a law that guarantees holding local elections in the eastern regions and granting special status for them
"Kiev puts forward conditions which are not stipulated by the Minsk agreements," the paper said.

The Minsk accords envisaged elections and withdrawal of forces "after the beginning of political changes and granting a certain autonomy to Donbas", the paper notes.

"However, law endorsed by the Ukrainian parliament links granting autonomy to Ukraine’s eastern regions to holding local elections and withdrawing illegal armed groups," it adds.

".
I don't see that on the Le Monde page

On the TASS page side bar
No prerequisites for elections in Donbas until hardware is pulled back — Merkel


"Such a U-turn only makes the settlement process, complex as it is, even more unstable and very difficult to implement," the paper says.

By acting this way, Kiev gave rise to criticism, with the West "beginning to voice irritation and reminding that its support is not unconditional," it adds.

http://tass.ru/en/world/787079

and for those who mistrust TASS:

http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/20 ... ine&xtcr=7
It may take a while but the West will eventually find out who the Ukrainian leaders are and what they stand for...
We already know who Putin is

9CkdYmHgjUE

AS the closed captions are in Portuguese you should have no problem understanding what is said in the video.

.

Come on, Doc, come on

.
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Parodite
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

lyrhcvbJ9uo
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Endovelico
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Parodite wrote:lyrhcvbJ9uo
A VOA source? How reliable do you expect it to be?... :D
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Parodite
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

Endovelico wrote:
Parodite wrote:lyrhcvbJ9uo
A VOA source? How reliable do you expect it to be?... :D
To Hell with the source.. what the guy says is right on the mark. I suppose you also still laugh at the Kremlin Troll's theory, even though it is mentioned by various sources and ought to be taken seriously.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Endovelico
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Parodite wrote:
Endovelico wrote: A VOA source? How reliable do you expect it to be?... :D
To Hell with the source.. what the guy says is right on the mark. I suppose you also still laugh at the Kremlin Troll's theory, even though it is mentioned by various sources and ought to be taken seriously.
Another explanation for Russian sources to have been increasingly quoted is that more people may now feel that news and comments from those sources are reliable enough. Not everybody is stupid therefore if such sources are being increasingly used it's because people believe they are reliable. We have been so often lied to by western politicians and media that people are eager to hear the other side of the stories. Having two sides to every story can only improve the quality of our information. Many people now feel - thanks to the Russian media - that they are now more likely to know what is really happening. The troll theory is just a desperate attempt at explaining people's increasing reliance on Russian sources. And I suspect that Russians are smarter than Americans and thus will lie less often, knowing most people realize when they are being lied to. While nobody believes CNN and Fox News anymore, many people believe RT often say things which are true.
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Parodite
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

Endovelico wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Endovelico wrote: A VOA source? How reliable do you expect it to be?... :D
To Hell with the source.. what the guy says is right on the mark. I suppose you also still laugh at the Kremlin Troll's theory, even though it is mentioned by various sources and ought to be taken seriously.
Another explanation for Russian sources to have been increasingly quoted is that more people may now feel that news and comments from those sources are reliable enough. Not everybody is stupid therefore if such sources are being increasingly used it's because people believe they are reliable. We have been so often lied to by western politicians and media that people are eager to hear the other side of the stories. Having two sides to every story can only improve the quality of our information. Many people now feel - thanks to the Russian media - that they are now more likely to know what is really happening. The troll theory is just a desperate attempt at explaining people's increasing reliance on Russian sources. And I suspect that Russians are smarter than Americans and thus will lie less often, knowing most people realize when they are being lied to. While nobody believes CNN and Fox News anymore, many people believe RT often say things which are true.
Nah.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Doc
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Doc »

Endovelico wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Endovelico wrote: A VOA source? How reliable do you expect it to be?... :D
To Hell with the source.. what the guy says is right on the mark. I suppose you also still laugh at the Kremlin Troll's theory, even though it is mentioned by various sources and ought to be taken seriously.
Another explanation for Russian sources to have been increasingly quoted is that more people may now feel that news and comments from those sources are reliable enough. Not everybody is stupid therefore if such sources are being increasingly used it's because people believe they are reliable. We have been so often lied to by western politicians and media that people are eager to hear the other side of the stories. Having two sides to every story can only improve the quality of our information. Many people now feel - thanks to the Russian media - that they are now more likely to know what is really happening. The troll theory is just a desperate attempt at explaining people's increasing reliance on Russian sources. And I suspect that Russians are smarter than Americans and thus will lie less often, knowing most people realize when they are being lied to. While nobody believes CNN and Fox News anymore, many people believe RT often say things which are true.

Yeah sure they are Here is Russia Today exposing the evil gates foundation leader and name sake calling for eugenics and killing children with GMO food and provide vaccinations that cause polo to children so they get polo, and sterilize men by damaging their sperm with ultra sound Really stupid, ignorant, stupid stuff.

3TyAJZVARPw

Fortunately someone took the time to debunk is S*** and as pointed out this kind of propaganda actually kills children. Anyone that propagates this BS is promoting the death of children. Do you support the idea that children should not get vaccines so they can die of completely preventable diseases Endo? OH yeah you believe everything Russia Today says... Sorry I forgot.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/ ... genicists/
Antivaccine loons really, really hate Bill Gates. It has little to do with his having built Microsoft into the global behemoth that it is. Rather, it’s all about what Gates has done since leaving Microsoft, namely his creation of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Most normal people would view Gates’ philanthropic activities post-Microsoft as a profound good, although, it’s hard not to say, some wags might view them as his making up for foisting Microsoft Windows upon the world. Be that as it may, the Gates Foundation does a lot of good. What really irritates antivaccine loons is that a major focus of the Gates Foundation’s philanthropy is making sure that as many children in Third World countries as possible are protected against deadly diseases, and one of the major tools Gates uses is the support of vaccination programs. Right there, on the Gates Foundation website, is a section on vaccines that contains statements like:
“Vaccines are one of the most effective health interventions ever developed.”
“We believe that a coordinated effort to develop and distribute underused and new vaccines can save millions of lives.”
“Our goal is to increase the use of effective but underused vaccines and introduce new vaccines to prevent a total of 4 million deaths per year.”

To improve the delivery of effective but underutilized vaccines, the Gates Foundation has partnered with the World Health Organization, GAVI, the Sabin Vaccine Institute, and Agence de Médecine Preventive to “help countries vaccinate more of their children, introduce new and underused vaccines, eradicate polio, and control measles,” using these strategies:
Revamp the “cold chain” delivery system to make it more effective in delivering vaccines.
Vaccinate more children of all ages with the proper vaccines.
Reach less accessible populations isolated by geography, culture, and religious practices.
Promote the development of new technologies that will make vaccines easier to store, safer to deliver, and less expensive.

No wonder a guy like Mike Adams would hate a guy like Bill Gates, especially since Gates has pledged $10 billion for vaccination programs and been very blunt about antivaccinationists, proclaiming things like:


Because the mothers who heard that lie, many of them didn’t have their kids take either pertussis or measles vaccine, and their children are dead today. And so the people who go and engage in those anti-vaccine efforts — you know, they, they kill children. It’s a very sad thing, because these vaccines are important.

Age of Autism, not surprisingly, doesn’t much like Gates, either.

However, if AoA is antivaccine hysteria cranked up to 11, Mike Adams is antivaccine hysteria cranked up to 100:


When you buy Microsoft products, you are now promoting the pharmaceutical industry and its global vaccine agenda. That’s the new reality in which we live, where the world’s largest software company is “in bed” with the world’s largest vaccine pusher.

How so? In 2009, Microsoft purchased a key piece of technology from the drug company Merck, the world’s largest maker of vaccines (which Bill Gates says can help “reduce the global population” by 10 to 15 percent). That technology, as you’ll see below, can conceivably be used to develop eugenics vaccines that target specific races and nationalities with infertility-inducing pharmaceuticals — something that is entirely consistent with Bill Gates’ openly-admitted goal of reducing world population through the use of vaccines (see link to video below).

In actuality, this deal wasn’t all that big as Microsoft purchases go. Basically, Microsoft purchased a company called Rosetta Software, which develops genomic information software that Microsoft wanted to integrate into its Microsoft Amalga Life Sciences, which is described as “system the company’s Health Solutions Group has built for research institutions such as drug companies and universities” and software that “helps researchers make sense of data to develop drugs and conduct clinical trials.” Sounds fairly unremarkable, right? Ever since new technology has accelerated the production of genomics data, these sorts of products have been popping up like kudzu in order to try to help scientists make sense of the terrabytes and petabytes of data flowing into their computers from techniques such as next generation sequencing (NGS).

It also turns out that Merck will “provide strategic input” to Microsoft as part of the deal. From this little sentence, Adams concludes that Microsoft has now become a eugenics company? But how does he “connect the dots”? First, he has to cite a famous speech that Bill Gates made back in 2010, in which he said:


The world today has 6.8 billion people. That’s heading up to about nine billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.

Antivaccinationists have leapt on this statement as “evidence” that (1) Bill Gates supports eugenics and (2) that, by saying this, Bill Gates “admitted that vaccines are used for depopulation.” The antivaccine crankosphere went wild. Of course, it’s obvious from the context that Bill Gates is pointing out a general observation that better health care, which includes reproductive services and vaccines, usually leads to populations leveling off. In other words, if we raise the health care standards of these countries, chances are good that they will have fewer children and that the rate of population increase will level off, not that we will “depopulate” the Third World. It’s always telling how much antivaccinationists lie about this one statement, and Adams is no exception.

So now that he has the necessary elements for a conspiracy theory, namely the tenuous connection between the purchase by Microsoft of a small genomics software company and Bill Gates’ support for vaccination programs, Mike Adams goes to town:


This is a key statement to understand, because the term “bioinformatic” can only mean one thing. What stores information in biology? These is only one digital storage system in human biology, and that system is, of course, DNA. Therefore, the idea of developing “bioinformatic solutions” really means to develop “gene-targeting drugs and vaccines.”

Adams says that as though that would be a bad thing. Of course, the direction of pharmaceutical development is moving towards genomic solutions and means of targeting genes with drugs and vaccines! That’s the way towards making drugs less toxic and potentially more effective. The quacks know that too. For instance, Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski has jumped on the genomics bandwagon, performing–uh, oh–“personalized gene-targeted cancer therapy.” Yet to Adams Burzysnki is a hero.

Can you say “hypocrisy”? Sure, I knew you could.

Now that eugenics has been brought into the picture, you know where this is going, particularly given that it’s Mike Adams we’re talking about. Yes, that’s right. It’s time to bring in Adolf Hitler! After ranting about how Gates is “pursuing an agenda of human depopulation” and how this agenda is similar to agendas pursued by others, including, hilariously, “Adolf Hitler and a long list of former FDA Commissioners in the United States.” Because, apparently, the FDA is just like Nazi Germany and FDA commissioners are just like Hitler.

But how? How will Bill Gates realize his nefarious vision of decreasing global population growth to only 1.3 billion people in the next couple of decades? Isn’t it obvious? Adams thinks it is:


In order to kill off large swaths of human beings, the most efficient mechanism to use is a self-replicating, gene-targeted bioweapon. Microsoft’s Amalga Life Sciences technology, purchased from vaccine developer March, theoretically provides a viable platform to develop precisely such bioweapons. It is interesting that no announcements from the company appear to have been made since being acquired by Microsoft in 2009, indicating that their work is now being conducted in total secrecy, behind closed doors.

Or the company has simply been totally absorbed into Microsoft, as so many companies before. Or Amalga has gone nowhere, and Microsoft has given up on it. Or any of a number of other possible explanations. Adams, however, zeroes right in on The One True Explanation, which to him is that Microsoft and Bill Gates have teamed up with Merk to produce a self-replicating, gene-targeted bioweapon. Does Gates even know what he’s talking about? I think you know the answer. Adams seems not to understand that targeting individual genes wouldn’t necessarily make a bioweapon more effective or the difficulties involved in developing such a weapon.

Why would the global elite and Illuminati want to develop such a bioweapon anyway? I was never clear on that. After all, apparently we have competing desires. On the one hand, Adams thinks that the global elite want a race of “superhumans.” But on the other hand, corporations want more customers. Which is it? I’m so confused. No wonder I leave the thinking to our pharma reptilian overlords like Lord Draconis and concern myself with simply doing their bidding in return for a cut of that lovely, tasty pharma lucre.

And Adams’ message has a lot of gullible people who believe it, too. For instance, get a load of this comment by someone named Robert S. Redfern, who writes:


The New World Order is really the 4th Reich and it is not just in the USA. It started in Europe and like a cancer it is spreading around the world. Mike Adams is the messenger, who are the warriors?

Here’s a hint, Mr. Redfern: The proper term is “cannon fodder,” not “warriors,” and you are the cannon fodder for people like Mike Adams. He’ll persuade you to abandon scientific medicine, refuse to vaccinate your children, and in general become credulous “sheeple” (to borrow a favorite conspiracy wingnut term) who will do anything that his alt-med masters ask.

Heh. Two can play at Adams’ game. It’s kind of fun, but I have to be careful. This is one case where the slippery slope might be real.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Endovelico
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Doc wrote: Yeah sure they are Here is Russia Today exposing the evil gates foundation leader and name sake calling for eugenics and killing children with GMO food and provide vaccinations that cause polo to children so they get polo, and sterilize men by damaging their sperm with ultra sound Really stupid, ignorant, stupid stuff.

3TyAJZVARPw
Sorry but this is not a genuine RT issue. The format is not the usual RT format, and there is no identification but the RT green logo at the bottom, an easy enough thing to fake. Why do you waste your and our time with a fake RT video, just to try and convince us of their bad faith?... :roll: I watch RT regularly and never have I seen anything even remotely resembling such nonsense...
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

C66mAkS1ZfM
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