Ukraine

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YMix
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Re: Ukraine

Post by YMix »

This is closer to mafia-style action or Mexican drug gangs, hence the need to take and hold territory. Corporate robber barons don't bother with that. They simply give orders to governments.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

YMix wrote:This is closer to mafia-style action or Mexican drug gangs, hence the need to take and hold territory. Corporate robber barons don't bother with that. They simply give orders to governments.
Governments are on their pay roll.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by YMix »

Libertarians should pay attention to what happens when the big bad government can't control the local factions anymore. :)
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by noddy »

that small subset of university stoner type libertarians who dont believe in law and order perhaps :)

my country would have to change radically to have oligarchs in the eastern european sense - however its possible if the economic downturn goes on long enough.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

I draw Parodite's attention to the following article:

http://joostniemoller.nl/2015/07/hoe-sc ... spel-wint/

I do not post it here because it is in Dutch, but I wonder what Parodite has to say about it. It seems to indicate that Russia knows very well what happened to the MH17 flight, and that the evidence it has gathered could be very embarrassing for the Netherlands, the US and the Ukraine. The longer Russia remains silent, allowing for the Dutch investigation committee to get as deep as possible into making false allegations, the more embarrassing it will become. Worth watching attentively...
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Parodite
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

Endovelico wrote:I draw Parodite's attention to the following article:

http://joostniemoller.nl/2015/07/hoe-sc ... spel-wint/

I do not post it here because it is in Dutch, but I wonder what Parodite has to say about it. It seems to indicate that Russia knows very well what happened to the MH17 flight, and that the evidence it has gathered could be very embarrassing for the Netherlands, the US and the Ukraine. The longer Russia remains silent, allowing for the Dutch investigation committee to get as deep as possible into making false allegations, the more embarrassing it will become. Worth watching attentively...
Not much information there, nor anything new. In oktober the investigation's report will come out. Russia will react with its own findings and conclusions. People will dive into it all I'm sure. Old questions needing an answer, new questions rising. More bickering discussions. Will be fun, except for the families and friends of those who died.

My guess is as good as anyones guess at this point why/how MH17 was downed of course, although in all likelihood mine is better 8-) : Ukrainian separatists accidentally downed the plane. I would not really blame them; accidents happen. A public Mea Culpa would of course be appropriate if this scenario is the truth. I more blame the people allowing MH17 to fly over this war zone where ground to air missiles were known to be used in the conflict.
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Re: Ukraine

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FREE TRADE FOR THE BIRDS

Canada – bless its maple-leaf heart – has given Ukraine C$400 million in cash since last September to help the Kiev government finance its civil war and debts. This week in Ottawa, with the signing of a free trade agreement between the two governments, the Canadians aim to claw back the cash by obliging Kiev to allow a surge of imports of Canadian cereals, meat, timber and other products. Until now Ukrainian producers of these goods have resisted, blocking the Canadian imports for fear they will damage the Ukrainian market and domestic earnings.

Canadian officials acknowledge that for Ukrainian steel, which is currently barred from entering the Canadian market at dumping prices, there will be no change, and the new agreement will make no difference.

“Harper is saving the Ukraine by damaging its farmers,” a Toronto source says, “and keeping Canada’s steelmills protected from one of the few exports the eastern Ukraine can still turn out. If that’s not cynical politics for gullible voters, I don’t know what is.” According to another Canadian analyst of the Ukrainian conflict, “this is money-making for a small circle of Ukrainian-Canadian business figures, their friends in Ottawa, and the ultra-nationalists in Ukraine.”

[...]

The small print of the FTA suggests that most of the gain in trade revenues will be received on the Canadian side. “Ukraine will immediately eliminate tariffs on 86 percent of Canada’s current exports, with the balance to be phased out or subject to tariff reductions over periods of up to seven years. This includes elimination by Ukraine of tariffs on all Canadian exports of industrial products, fish and seafood, and the elimination of a vast majority of Ukraine’s agricultural tariffs. Key products benefiting from either immediate or eventual duty-free access include beef, canola oil, processed foods, animal feed, frozen fish, caviar, certain iron and steel products, articles of plastics, and cosmetics. Tariffs will also be eliminated on fresh and chilled pork, and frozen pork will benefit from a large duty-free tariff rate quota.”

During the FTA negotiations Ukrainian meat and oil-seed producers lobbied the government in Kiev not to allow dumping of Canadian products in the domestic market. The current Ukrainian beef duty is 15%; the pork penalty, 10%. For an independent study last year by the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organization of the sensitivity of the domestic industry to low-price imports, read this. According to the FAO data, until now Ukrainian government policy has been to stimulate domestic meat production, and cut imports of beef, pork, poultry – by almost 50% between 2010 and 2020.

This week’s signature by Yatseniuk reverses this policy. It will produce as much as C$200 million in fresh pork export revenues for Canada over the next five years. According to Statistics Canada, the value of pork exports to Ukraine in 2014 came to just $4.4 million; zero in the first four months in 2015.

Jacques Pomerleau, President of Canada Pork International, said today: “The Canadian pork industry estimates that once fully implemented the duty-free access which this new agreement will provide for pork would be between 30 and 40 million Canadian dollars in value [per annum]. Once ratified Ukraine will provide an annual duty-free quota of 10,000 tonnes for Canadian frozen pork cuts, offals and fats to increase to 20,000 tonnes over seven years.”

According to the Ottawa handout, the dismantling of Ukrainian protection for domestic agriculture will also benefit Canadian exporters of pulses, grains, animal feed, and seed oils. Canpotex, the potash export agency, refuse this week to say what benefits they expect to see.

[...]

Another part of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s anatomy has also been taken care of in this week’s FTA. That’s his pocket. The official Canadian list of Ukrainian exports to benefit from new duty-free entry to the Canadian market includes “sugar and chocolate confectionery”. This refers to the leading Ukrainian exporter Roshen, which is owned by Poroshenko. Since becoming president in Kiev in May of 2014, Poroshenko has been promising to sell out. However, the collapse of his business in Russia, and decline of sales in Ukraine, have lowered the value of his asset. He reportedly wants $3 billion; Nestle of Switzerland is offering one-third as much.

Harper’s offer to Poroshenko to eliminate Canada’s 6% import duty on chocolate is likely to antagonize Mars and other confectionery groups in the US, whose products are being dumped in Canada, and are now threatened with retaliatory penalties.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Putin is a Monster!...

Post by Endovelico »

An Australian's view on "Putin's war"...

dDsJQOqgKR4

Why is it that the western media never shows these videos?...
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Typhoon »

Because it's all a massive conspiracy by evil Western Capitalists to undermine Putin's Mother Russia.

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Endovelico »

Typhoon wrote:Because it's all a massive conspiracy by evil Western Capitalists to undermine Putin's Mother Russia.
Not just western capitalists. Far eastern ones are just as dumb...
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Re: Ukraine

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The “Snipers’ Massacre” on the Maidan in Ukraine
The paper analyzes a large amount of evidence from different publicly available sources concerning this massacre and killings of specifics protestors. Qualitative content analysis includes the following data: about 1,500 videos and recordings of live internet and TV broadcasts in mass media and social media in different countries (some 150 gigabytes), news reports and social media posts by more than 100 journalists covering the massacre from Kyiv, some 5,000 photos, and nearly 30 gigabytes of publicly available radio intercepts of snipers and commanders from the special Alfa unit of the Security Service of Ukraine and Internal Troops, and Maidan massacre trial recordings. This study also employs field research on site of the massacre, eyewitness reports by both Maidan protesters and government special units commanders, statements by both former and current government officials, estimates of approximate ballistic trajectories, bullets and weapons used, and types of wounds among both protesters and the police. This study establishes a precise timeline for various events of the massacre, the locations of both the shooters and the government snipers, and the specific timeline and locations of nearly 50 protesters’ deaths. It also briefly analyzes other major cases of violence during and after the “Euromaidan.”

This academic investigation concludes that the massacre was a false flag operation, which was rationally planned and carried out with a goal of the overthrow of the government and seizure of power. It found various evidence of the involvement of an alliance of the far right organizations, specifically the Right Sector and Svoboda, and oligarchic parties, such as Fatherland. Concealed shooters and spotters were located in at least 20 Maidan-controlled buildings or areas. The various evidence that the protesters were killed from these locations include some 70 testimonies, primarily by Maidan protesters, several videos of “snipers” targeting protesters from these buildings, comparisons of positions of the specific protesters at the time of their killing and their entry wounds, and bullet impact signs. The study uncovered various videos and photos of armed Maidan “snipers” and spotters in many of these buildings. The paper presents implications of these findings for understanding the nature of the change of the government in Ukraine, the civil war in Donbas, Russian military intervention in Crimea and Donbas, and an international conflict between the West and Russia over Ukraine.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

YMix wrote:The “Snipers’ Massacre” on the Maidan in Ukraine
The paper analyzes a large amount of evidence from different publicly available sources concerning this massacre and killings of specifics protestors. Qualitative content analysis includes the following data: about 1,500 videos and recordings of live internet and TV broadcasts in mass media and social media in different countries (some 150 gigabytes), news reports and social media posts by more than 100 journalists covering the massacre from Kyiv, some 5,000 photos, and nearly 30 gigabytes of publicly available radio intercepts of snipers and commanders from the special Alfa unit of the Security Service of Ukraine and Internal Troops, and Maidan massacre trial recordings. This study also employs field research on site of the massacre, eyewitness reports by both Maidan protesters and government special units commanders, statements by both former and current government officials, estimates of approximate ballistic trajectories, bullets and weapons used, and types of wounds among both protesters and the police. This study establishes a precise timeline for various events of the massacre, the locations of both the shooters and the government snipers, and the specific timeline and locations of nearly 50 protesters’ deaths. It also briefly analyzes other major cases of violence during and after the “Euromaidan.”

This academic investigation concludes that the massacre was a false flag operation, which was rationally planned and carried out with a goal of the overthrow of the government and seizure of power. It found various evidence of the involvement of an alliance of the far right organizations, specifically the Right Sector and Svoboda, and oligarchic parties, such as Fatherland. Concealed shooters and spotters were located in at least 20 Maidan-controlled buildings or areas. The various evidence that the protesters were killed from these locations include some 70 testimonies, primarily by Maidan protesters, several videos of “snipers” targeting protesters from these buildings, comparisons of positions of the specific protesters at the time of their killing and their entry wounds, and bullet impact signs. The study uncovered various videos and photos of armed Maidan “snipers” and spotters in many of these buildings. The paper presents implications of these findings for understanding the nature of the change of the government in Ukraine, the civil war in Donbas, Russian military intervention in Crimea and Donbas, and an international conflict between the West and Russia over Ukraine.

Americans hired the "fascist" criminals in Ukraine to do all the dirty work .. ruining Ukraine

Ukrainians must arrest Yulia Tymoshenko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and other fools who pushed Ukraine into disaster.

Outright traitors and fools

.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Parodite »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:Americans hired the "fascist" criminals in Ukraine to do all the dirty work .. ruining Ukraine

Ukrainians must arrest Yulia Tymoshenko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and other fools who pushed Ukraine into disaster.

Outright traitors and fools.
Iranian premature ejaculation as usual and not what this investigation concludes.

From the conclusion section in the end:
Conclusion

This paper shows that the Maidan massacre of the protesters and the police on February 20, 2014 involved the far right and oligarchic parties, and it was a key element of the violent overthrow of the corrupt and oligarchic but democratically elected government in Ukraine.
[...]
This mass killing was a successful false flag operation, which was organized and conducted by elements of the Maidan leadership and concealed armed groups in order to win the asymmetric conflict during the “Euromaidan” and seize power in Ukraine. This study also provides a rational explanation for the failure of the government investigation to find and prosecute those directly involved in this mass killing and for falsification of the investigation.

However, specific nature and degree of the involvement of each of these political organizations and specific leaders and armed protesters remains unclear. Such a false flag massacre by its nature could have been organized and successfully carried out only by a small number of Maidan leaders and protesters.

The absolute majority of the Maidan protesters, activists, members, and supporters of the “Euromaidan” mass protests and parties that led these protests, including the victims among the protesters, were not aware about the actual organizers and perpetrators of this politically motivated murder and not involved in any other way in this mass killing.
In other words, which individuals of what groups were responsible remains unclear. But the conclusion is that the investigation made clear where to look for them. Key: A small sub-group of the suspect groups could have been able to organize and execute this.

Further more and in response to HPs premature ejaculations:
[...]

No reliable evidence about “third force” foreign snipers or organizers of the massacre has been found. This academic investigation also brings new important questions that need to be addressed. Because of various evidence of US government backing of the Maidan opposition, its involvement in the Maidan government selection and policy decisions, and its past record of supporting or organizing regime change in other countries, additional research is needed to examine if there was any involvement of the US government in the violent overthrow of the Ukrainian government.
In other words, there is no evidence at this point whatsoever that foreign forces were involved. I.e.: neither Russian nor Western. But the suggestion is made that it is possible that the US gvt was supporting the suspect groups, either knowingly or not knowingly they planned this massacre supposedly. But any evidence thus far in that regard: none.

Mostly likely, as I claimed earlier, this massacre was entirely an internal Ukrainian production.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by YMix »

Tick Tick Tick
by James Howard Kunstler • September 28, 2015

Did Charlie Rose look like a genuflecting durian last night on 60-Minutes, or what, asking Vladimir Putin how he could know for sure that the US was behind the 2014 Ukraine coup against President Viktor Yanukovych? Maybe the idiots are the 60-Minutes producers and fluffers who are supposed to prep Charlie’s questions. Putin seemed startled and amused by this one on Ukraine: how could he know for sure?

Well, gosh, because Ukraine was virtually a province of Russia in one form or another for hundreds of years, and Russia has a potent intelligence service (formerly called the KGB) that had assets and connections threaded through Ukrainian society like the rhizomorphs of the fungus Armillaria solidipes through a conifer forest. Gosh, Charlie, it’s like asking Obama whether the NSA might know what’s going on in Texas.

And so there is Vladimir Putin, a former KGB officer, having to spell it out for the American clodhopper super-journalist. “We have thousands of contacts with them. We know who and where, and when they met with someone, and who worked with those who ousted Yanukovych, how they were supported, how much they were paid, how they were trained, where, in which country, and who those instructors were. We know everything.”

The only thing Vlad left out of course was the now-world-famous panicked yelp by Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland crying, “genuflect the EU,” when events in Kiev started getting out of hand for US stage-managers. But he probably heard about that, too.

Charlie then voice-overed the following statement: “For the record, the US has denied any involvement in the removal of the Ukrainian leader.” Right. And your call is important us. And your check is in the mail. And they hate us for our freedom.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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Fitch downgrades Kiev to restrictive default

The Fitch rating agency has cut Ukraine's foreign currency rating to restrictive default after Kiev failed to repay $500 million in Eurobonds on September 23.

“The 10-day grace period on Ukraine's $500 million Eurobond maturing on 23 September 2015 has elapsed without payment being made. Fitch therefore judges Ukraine to be in default on its sovereign Eurobond obligations,” said a statement from the agency.

“On 24 September, Ukraine launched the exchange offer for approximately $18 billion in direct and government-guaranteed Eurobonds. Fitch considers that this represents a Distressed Debt Exchange (DDE) under its criteria that results in material losses to bondholders and is being conducted to avoid default,” the statement added.

A ‘restrictive default’ Fitch rating indicates a failure to pay on a bond, loan or other material financial obligation without entering bankruptcy or ceasing operations.
The Fitch’s downgrade comes after a similar move from Standard & Poor’s that downgraded Ukraine’s credit rating to 'selective default' on September 25.

A ‘selective default’ occurs when a borrower fails to pay one or more of its payment obligations, but continues to meet others.

In late August, a creditor committee led by Franklin Templeton (which owns Ukrainian bonds worth about $7 billion) agreed a 20 percent write-off of some $18 billion worth of Kiev’s Eurobonds. Repayment of the remaining will be transferred from 2015-2023 to 2019-2027.

Russia has refused to accept Ukraine's debt cut, saying it takes no part in “the so-called debt operation” and recommended Kiev pay in full the $3 billion due December 20 on time to avoid “both litigation costs and penalty interest for overdue payments.”

Ukraine is obliged to restructure its debt in order to get a $17.5 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund. The unwillingness of Russia to accept a haircut may prevent the IMF from unlocking the bailout.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: Ukraine

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2zgTl6-KWqg
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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Ukrainians Disillusioned With Leadership

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Despite signs last year that Ukraine's then-new president was starting to rebuild Ukrainians' trust in their leadership, President Petro Poroshenko is now less popular than his predecessor Viktor Yanukovych was before he was ousted. After more than a year in office, 17% of Ukrainians approve of the job that Poroshenko is doing. This approval rating is down sharply from 47% a few months after his election in May 2014.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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Ukraine’s economy minister dramatically resigns, citing covert corruption

Ukraine’s minister for economic development and trade, Aivaras Abromavicius, who is one of several foreign experts in the government who was brought in to help Kiev with reforms, has announced his resignation, citing corruption levels in the state.

“Neither me, nor my team have any desire to serve as a cover-up for the covert corruption, or become puppets for those who, very much like the ‘old’ government, are trying to exercise control over the flow of public funds,” Abromavicius said in his official statement on Wednesday.

His ministry’s reform efforts have been “paralyzed” by the “concrete actions” of certain officials and groups, Abromavicius said, adding that he has been pressured by the president’s administration to appoint “questionable individuals” to his team or to key positions in state-owned enterprises.

[...]
Physical elimination team needed ASAP!
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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Poroshenko Calls For PM, Prosecutor To Resign

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has asked the country's prime minister and prosecutor-general to resign "in order to restore trust in the government" ahead of an expected vote of no confidence by lawmakers.

A presidential statement on February 16 said Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk's government has lost the support of the ruling coalition, which includes Poroshenko's own party, the Poroshenko Bloc.

Poroshenko's request came shortly before Yatsenyuk was due to present his report on the work of the government to parliament, where he faces the threat of a no-confidence vote.

[...]
Yats, Nuland's handpicked man, is being shown the door.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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On the morning of Dec. 4, a police operation to catch a suspected theft ring ended in the shooting deaths of five police officers who fired on each other by mistake in Knyazhychi village, some 15 kilometers west of Kyiv.
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politi ... blast.html

:|
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER DRAGS FOOT, TRIPS UP UKRAINIAN COURT CLAIM OF MH17 TERRORISM

[...]

“It is enough to note,” said Rogachev, “that neither the DSB [Dutch Safety Board] nor the JIT [Joint Investigation Team] appear to be concluding that the civil airliner was shot down with malicious intent or, which is what matters most for today, that the equipment allegedly used was provided for that specific purpose.”

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Ukraine

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Atlantic Council | Why Independence for Ukraine’s Orthodox Church Is an Earthquake for Putin
On September 7, Ukraine inched closer to a globally recognized international church. That day, Constantinople Patriarch Bartholomew I placed Ukraine under the canonical jurisdiction of US Archbishop Daniel of Pamphilon and Canadian Bishop Ilarion of Edmonton who head Ukrainian Orthodox Churches in both countries under Constantinople’s canonical jurisdiction. Since 1685, the Russian Orthodox Church has claimed Ukraine lies within its canonical territory, but no longer. The two appointments are preparation for granting the Orthodox Church in Ukraine autocephaly (independence) from the Russian Orthodox Church.

It’s no exaggeration to write that the granting of autocephaly from the Russian Orthodox Church to Ukraine’s millions of Orthodox believers is as significant as the disintegration of the USSR for Ukraine. Granting Ukraine’s Orthodox Church a Tomos is the last step Ukraine needs to take in order to become truly independent.
All that is left to do now is several defenestrations and it's good to go.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by noddy »

in soviet ukraine, pepper spray you.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by noddy »

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-26/ ... e/10554870
It's unclear if either side is prepared to escalate the conflict. Right now, the Russians have impounded Ukrainian ships and are holding their sailors. Several have been injured and getting them home will be a priority.

But what happens after that?

How far is Mr Poroshenko willing to go to hit back?

There are grave dangers ahead for this most volatile of regions.

It is time to remind ourselves there is an ongoing war in Europe that has largely been forgotten.

We've just had a wake-up call.
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