The Baltics

Re: The Baltics

Postby Alexis » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:26 pm

Typhoon wrote:He kindly sent me the following

http://www.lrytas.lt/pramogos/tv-kinas/ ... aganda.htm

along with an English translation.

The relevant part is

"Atlikus tyrimą paaiškėjo, kad vos per keletą minučių iš vieno kompiuterio IP adreso buvo prabalsuota net 7438 kartus.
Tai sudaro net 67 proc. visų apklausoje registruotų balsų."

"Upon investigation, it was found that in course of several minutes 7438 votes originated from a single IP address.
This constituted 67 percent of all the registered votes."

So Doc's theory is correct.


Thanks for the precise and factual information, Colonel.

I agree, travel and meeting people from different countries is definitely a good protection against manipulation.

So let us correct the figures, assuming that all of the votes originating from that single IP address were for "Russia is telling the truth", that is 67% of answers, which leaves us with only the remaining 33% to compute the un-manipulated answers from Lithuanian viewers of that TV channel.

We get (82-67) / 33 = 45% of Lithuanians saying "Russia is telling the truth"
and 12 /33 = 36% of Lithuanians saying "Russian propaganda in Lithuania is increasing"

Yes, that is much more credible than the original "82%". Note incidentally that given Lithuanian "difficult" history with the Soviet Union, having 45% of the population agreeing more with the Russian rather than NATO position on Ukraine conflict is notable. Even accounting for the 6% of Lithuania's population which are Russians.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:38 pm

Alexis wrote:
Typhoon wrote:He kindly sent me the following

http://www.lrytas.lt/pramogos/tv-kinas/ ... aganda.htm

along with an English translation.

The relevant part is

"Atlikus tyrimą paaiškėjo, kad vos per keletą minučių iš vieno kompiuterio IP adreso buvo prabalsuota net 7438 kartus.
Tai sudaro net 67 proc. visų apklausoje registruotų balsų."

"Upon investigation, it was found that in course of several minutes 7438 votes originated from a single IP address.
This constituted 67 percent of all the registered votes."

So Doc's theory is correct.


Thanks for the precise and factual information, Colonel.

I agree, travel and meeting people from different countries is definitely a good protection against manipulation.

So let us correct the figures, assuming that all of the votes originating from that single IP address were for "Russia is telling the truth", that is 67% of answers, which leaves us with only the remaining 33% to compute the un-manipulated answers from Lithuanian viewers of that TV channel.

We get (82-67) / 33 = 45% of Lithuanians saying "Russia is telling the truth"
and 12 /33 = 36% of Lithuanians saying "Russian propaganda in Lithuania is increasing"

Yes, that is much more credible than the original "82%". Note incidentally that given Lithuanian "difficult" history with the Soviet Union, having 45% of the population agreeing more with the Russian rather than NATO position on Ukraine conflict is notable. Even accounting for the 6% of Lithuania's population which are Russians.


The numbers from any poll wherein the participants are not randomly selected are meaningless.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Alexis » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:17 pm

Typhoon wrote:The numbers from any poll wherein the participants are not randomly selected are meaningless.


No, not meaningless. They are representative of the population of those listeners who thought it worthy to answer the question. Less precise than an actual poll obviously, but a first "very" rough idea of where the general population stands.

The numbers computed once manipulation is removed cannot be taken at face value, they however indicate one thing: that a significant number of Lithuanians is on each side of the poll question. It makes it clear that the opinion is neither 80-20 in favor of one, nor in favor of the other.

That, as I was saying, is in itself quite notable, given that this is Lithuania.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby YMix » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:29 pm

Typhoon wrote:"Upon investigation, it was found that in course of several minutes 7438 votes originated from a single IP address.


The voting software allowed multiple votes from a single address? :facepalm:
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:39 pm

YMix wrote:
Typhoon wrote:"Upon investigation, it was found that in course of several minutes 7438 votes originated from a single IP address.


The voting software allowed multiple votes from a single address? :facepalm:


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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:39 pm

Alexis wrote:
Typhoon wrote:The numbers from any poll wherein the participants are not randomly selected are meaningless.


No, not meaningless. They are representative of the population of those listeners who thought it worthy to answer the question. Less precise than an actual poll obviously, but a first "very" rough idea of where the general population stands.

The numbers computed once manipulation is removed cannot be taken at face value, they however indicate one thing: that a significant number of Lithuanians is on each side of the poll question. It makes it clear that the opinion is neither 80-20 in favor of one, nor in favor of the other.

That, as I was saying, is in itself quite notable, given that this is Lithuania.


As representative and notable as a comment section of youtube.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Alexis » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:58 pm

Typhoon wrote:As representative and notable as a comment section on youtube.


If you think so, why did do bother checking the history of those "82%" with your Lithuanian friend? :)
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:05 pm

Alexis wrote:
Typhoon wrote:As representative and notable as a comment section on youtube.


If you think so, why did do bother checking the history of those "82%" with your Lithuanian friend? :)


Really?
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Endovelico » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:15 pm

Although I initiated this discussion about the Lithuanian poll, I must confess to a certain degree of mischief in so doing. Television polls are indeed of doubtful value, as there is no random element in collecting the answers. So I don't give it much credit. But even if there was a definite bias in the answers, we should take into account the fact that a significant number of Lithuanians are not too keen to follow the US/EU propaganda line. As such, any attempts at manipulating the Lithuanian people to justify further anti-Russian actions are doomed to fail. I'm quite sure that most Lithuanians will prefer to have a good, civilized relationship with Russia than subject themselves to doing NATO's dirty work...
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:47 pm

Endovelico wrote:Although I initiated this discussion about the Lithuanian poll, I must confess to a certain degree of mischief in so doing. Television polls are indeed of doubtful value, as there is no random element in collecting the answers. So I don't give it much credit. But even if there was a definite bias in the answers, we should take into account the fact that a significant number of Lithuanians are not too keen to follow the US/EU propaganda line. As such, any attempts at manipulating the Lithuanian people to justify further anti-Russian actions are doomed to fail. I'm quite sure that most Lithuanians will prefer to have a good, civilized relationship with Russia than subject themselves to doing NATO's dirty work...


Delusional dreaming.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby HAL 10000 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:18 am

Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Although I initiated this discussion about the Lithuanian poll, I must confess to a certain degree of mischief in so doing. Television polls are indeed of doubtful value, as there is no random element in collecting the answers. So I don't give it much credit. But even if there was a definite bias in the answers, we should take into account the fact that a significant number of Lithuanians are not too keen to follow the US/EU propaganda line. As such, any attempts at manipulating the Lithuanian people to justify further anti-Russian actions are doomed to fail. I'm quite sure that most Lithuanians will prefer to have a good, civilized relationship with Russia than subject themselves to doing NATO's dirty work...


Delusional dreaming.



Indeed.

Here is an article about the Soviet deportations from Lithuania:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_dep ... _Lithuania


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_prisoner_massacres
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:40 pm

AFP | Lithuania's lost Jewish archives come to life online

This caught my notice as during my visit my Lithuanian friend told me about the Jewish contribution to Lithuanian and all European culture during the centuries before WWII.

Apparently Vilnius was once referred to as the "Jerusalem of the North."
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:15 am

HAL 10000 wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Although I initiated this discussion about the Lithuanian poll, I must confess to a certain degree of mischief in so doing. Television polls are indeed of doubtful value, as there is no random element in collecting the answers. So I don't give it much credit. But even if there was a definite bias in the answers, we should take into account the fact that a significant number of Lithuanians are not too keen to follow the US/EU propaganda line. As such, any attempts at manipulating the Lithuanian people to justify further anti-Russian actions are doomed to fail. I'm quite sure that most Lithuanians will prefer to have a good, civilized relationship with Russia than subject themselves to doing NATO's dirty work...


Delusional dreaming.



Indeed.

Here is an article about the Soviet deportations from Lithuania:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_dep ... _Lithuania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_prisoner_massacres


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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:28 pm

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Re: The Baltics

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:45 pm

Typhoon wrote:
HAL 10000 wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Although I initiated this discussion about the Lithuanian poll, I must confess to a certain degree of mischief in so doing. Television polls are indeed of doubtful value, as there is no random element in collecting the answers. So I don't give it much credit. But even if there was a definite bias in the answers, we should take into account the fact that a significant number of Lithuanians are not too keen to follow the US/EU propaganda line. As such, any attempts at manipulating the Lithuanian people to justify further anti-Russian actions are doomed to fail. I'm quite sure that most Lithuanians will prefer to have a good, civilized relationship with Russia than subject themselves to doing NATO's dirty work...


Delusional dreaming.



Indeed.

Here is an article about the Soviet deportations from Lithuania:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_dep ... _Lithuania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_prisoner_massacres





Am not sure what you want to say, Colonel ? ? ?

Were the Sowjets or Russians worst than British colonials in India, Indochina, China ? ?

Did Russians demand Lithuanians must buy Opium and pay with Gold, and when Lithuanians resisted behead them on main street ? ?

Were Russians in Baltic worst than White man in Africa, the Zulu uprising and that demon Churchill ? ?

Were Russians worst than French in Algeria or Belgian in Congo ? ?

Do you talk about Lumumba ? ?

Come on

Russians, including Stalin were 100 times more "Mensch" compared to Brits and Belgians and French

All Russians wanted is Baltics stay within Communist hemisphere, USSR .. Russians did not ask "slavery" from Lithuanians as Europeans were asking from Africans and Indians and Vietnamese

Did Russians carpet bomb from 30,000 feet with B-52 Latvia or Baltics

NO

Agent Orange on Baltics ?

NO

come, on .. get a life and stop bashing our beloved Russia

Pfui


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Re: The Baltics

Postby Doc » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:30 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Were the Sowjets or Russians worst than British colonials in India, Indochina, China ? ?
.


Hell Yes
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:43 am

Doc wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Were the Sowjets or Russians worst than British colonials in India, Indochina, China ? ?
.


Hell Yes



.



:lol: :lol: .. I watched the whole 1:25:33 length of the video


A cheap primitive propaganda video, made recently, to demonize Russia

- True, Communist USSR did all those things

- As the clip itself says, all those murders were "Karl Marx/Engel" doctrine, clearly expressed in the clip, including that idi*t Bernard Shaw clip advocating killing of intelligentia and poison gas episode .. Sowjet commissars were executing Marx script

- many of those communist commissars were Russian Jewish, not only Trotzki or Litvinov but many more.

- That Latvian lady sayin a few Russian moving to Latvia is against international law :lol: .. last 70 yrs
Zionist bulldozing Pali homes, brining in Russian criminals to occupy Pali homes .. you Doc, so silent :lol:


This clip confirms what I am saying long long time .. history, truth, facts of WW-II is not as reported

Now that west decided to vilify Russia, "skeletons" coming out of the closet

Yes, all is true .. but , are those genocides worst than what French did in Algeria ? or Belgians in Congo ? .. is not giving medicine to Iraqi children causing 1 million children to die not worst than Communist commissars murdering Poles or Ukrainians ? ?

NO .. Hardly so




This a primitive non professional cheap PR clip

Hitler and German comparing to Communism and USSR shows either not understanding aDolf or taking Joe for a fool

Waste of time watching the clip

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Re: The Baltics

Postby Endovelico » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:52 am

As Typhoon says elsewhere, Germans have so perfectly integrated in the US that some of their nazi genes have become part of US DNA... Must have been something in those cold, damp caves of northern Europe where they all come from... I prescribe a couple thousand years in a warm, sunny climate... :D
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Doc » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:10 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Were the Sowjets or Russians worst than British colonials in India, Indochina, China ? ?
.


Hell Yes



.



:lol: :lol: .. I watched the whole 1:25:33 length of the video


A cheap primitive propaganda video, made recently, to demonize Russia

- True, Communist USSR did all those things

- As the clip itself says, all those murders were "Karl Marx/Engel" doctrine, clearly expressed in the clip, including that idi*t Bernard Shaw clip advocating killing of intelligentia and poison gas episode .. Sowjet commissars were executing Marx script

- many of those communist commissars were Russian Jewish, not only Trotzki or Litvinov but many more.

- That Latvian lady sayin a few Russian moving to Latvia is against international law :lol: .. last 70 yrs
Zionist bulldozing Pali homes, brining in Russian criminals to occupy Pali homes .. you Doc, so silent :lol:


This clip confirms what I am saying long long time .. history, truth, facts of WW-II is not as reported

Now that west decided to vilify Russia, "skeletons" coming out of the closet

Yes, all is true .. but , are those genocides worst than what French did in Algeria ? or Belgians in Congo ? .. is not giving medicine to Iraqi children causing 1 million children to die not worst than Communist commissars murdering Poles or Ukrainians ? ?

NO .. Hardly so






Nice How many children actually died because of sanctions? The UN said one million. You know the organization that was running the oil for bribes program. Yet some how miraculously the population growth of Iraq never slowed down during the sanctions (Maybe Iraq was more favored by Allah than other countries like Iran for example whose population growth definitely has declined.)Saddam tried very hard to inflate those numbers as much as possible for propaganda. Stalin definitely killed 7 million Ukrainians in around one year. He killed 20 million or 40 times more. Then there is of course Saddam's mass murders of 2 million people. Food and medicine were not sanctioned for Iraq. Saddam could buy all he wanted but instead he built 54 palaces because that was part of his strategy to end the sanctions

He was as an malignant narcissist far, far more brutal in power then he was out of power.

"Let the enemies...cut medical supplies so that children pregnant women and the elderly die. God willing, Iraq will continue to be the leader of the continuous march" -- Saddam Hussein speech to military personnel Sept 6 1999


Medical supplies were not part of the sanctions.

But granted Albright wasn't all that bright.







This a primitive non professional cheap PR clip


Of course you have to say that ....

The film says the Soviets killed 20 million the actual count (Still counting) stands at 61 million people

Image

Are you denying the fact that Stalin had murder even 20 million people?

Hitler and German comparing to Communism and USSR shows either not understanding aDolf or taking Joe for a fool


The connection is very clear. Both are based on the idea of a materialist universe. That humans are just animals and there is nothing else. Between the two by mass murder and war they are responsible for the deaths of around 250 million people. They both believe that they knew what is best to do with the lives of others.


Waste of time watching the clip

.


No doubt you kept your eyes closed and hands over your ears.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:11 pm

Have to wonder about the moral relativism argument that what happened in, say, the Congo somehow justifies and/or diminishes what happened in Russia and the surrounding occupied nations: the mass murder and genocide of at least 20 million innocent people.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Typhoon » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:21 pm

Endovelico wrote:As Typhoon says elsewhere, Germans have so perfectly integrated in the US that some of their nazi genes have become part of US DNA... Must have been something in those cold, damp caves of northern Europe where they all come from... I prescribe a couple thousand years in a warm, sunny climate... :D


Impressive. Spoken like a true national-socialist.

Given the left's mistaken belief in genetic determinism and the existence of so-called "national sociatlist", "capitalist", "class" and other supposed genes,
it comes as no surprise that the left holds the record for the both the highest absolute number of people mass murdered {Stalin, Mao] and the highest percentage mass murdered [Pol Pot].

On can build a new and improved society by simply killing off the people carrying such supposdly undesirable genes and this belief rationalizes the mass murder employed.

Of course, from the point of genetics and biology it's complete nonsense, but it's too late for the dead.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:31 pm

.

Not saying Stalin, or USSR, were good

All I am saying, is, in many instances, western countries were not better rather much worst

Yes, Communism conspiracy, what German Jewish Marx explicitly propagated and poor Russia falling into that trap, dictated to eliminate the intelligentia and bourgeois .. that script lead to murders in Poland and Russia and famine in Ukraine .. true

But

How come, although I posted here, you never commented about British caused "famine of Persia" in WW-I, 1917, that lead @least 1/4 of population to die ? ? ? WiKi

Looking at that wiki "famine" list, one can see many famines cause by invading forces, Turks, Ottomans retreating, emptied the grain Silos in Lebanon causing millions die from hunger, and many more cases.

Point is, the Ukrainian famine or all those killing in USSR was not cause by "bad Russians" (they you guys now attacking), but by a "Georgian" Stalin executing German Jewish Marx "script" .. the main victim of Stalin and communism were the Russians themselves.

and

Was the French "genocide" on Algerians, murdering 1/3 of population or Belgian "genocide" in Kongo not worst ?

And, here I come back again to what I am saying and saying since long, that what really happened in WW I &II, the real facts and history, the real reason and many other "reals" is not only not reported, but intentionally "distorted", faked, omitted, fabricated to "manufacture consent" of present day policies as things evolving .. and .. each time, when things change, "skeletons" are taken out of closet and start bashing, salami tactic

Re Iraqi children, issue is not whether 1 million, or half million, Iraqi children died .. issue not even if true or not, issue those 2 clips that high American diplomat say it was worth doing it .. but, to know the truth, you should be remembered that Western sanction stopped supply of nuclear medicine to Iran, and did not allow Iranian medical reactors be refuled what lead to Iranian cancer patients die, Iran immediately enriched to 20%, manufactured the "nuclear rods" itself and fuelled the medical reactor, that in reality helped Iran to gain knowledge of enriching past 3.5% to 20%+, allowing less than 2 months "break-out" capacity.

All I am saying is "some" in West have their hands as dirty

One other point :

Humanity, World, was set back by this "communism" rubbish

Who and how "communism" came to being ? whose idea and how the "ZeitGeist" went to this direction .. we talking about 1850-1900 .. who were the "progressive" intelligentia of that time pushing things in that direction and destroying the 1000s of yrs tried system ? ? same people that now destroying the fabric of western civilization and culture, pushing destructive agendas ? ?

Attacking communism must be done by attacking those who lead things in that direction :lol:

.



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Re: The Baltics

Postby Parodite » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:01 pm

HP, many dirty hands no secret. You seem to like turning it into a competition, why is that? What you do is what toddlers do: deflecting responsibility by finger pointing at others. Grow up.
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Re: The Baltics

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:45 pm

Parodite wrote:.

HP, many dirty hands no secret. You seem to like turning it into a competition, why is that? What you do is what toddlers do: deflecting responsibility by finger pointing at others. Grow up.

.



What I am saying is, generally, one can not be appalled by things others have done when one has done even worst

We not talking about event 1000s of yrs ago .. things, say last 300 yrs in the world, still effecting us today, specially things since last 200 yrs evolving right now.

Honest confronting of today's issues needs honest reporting of facts of last 200 yrs

How can one call it against international law when USSR brings a few Russians in Lithuania but at the same time all those pushed out of Lithuania and Latvia and Ukraine are at bulldozing Pali homes and bringing MILLIONS of criminals from Russia occupying Pali homes and Olive groves ? ? ? ? :lol: .. come on

Who did, why, how borders of today were drawn ? those boarders were drawn conforming to colonial interest of world powers of 1900, people within those boarders had nothing to say. A drunk homosexual British General draw the boarders of today's ME

How can a Hashemite, people from Hijaz call himself King of a province of (Greater) Syria ? ? he nothing in common with those people, at the same time, a beduin tribe of Arabia now with 30,000 freeloaders calling themselves "Prince" rule Arabia brining disaster to all ME with Wahhabi/Safi rubbish .. all this with Western military backing

All Europeans have their own "file", Dutch in Indonesia, Belgians in Africa, French in too many places to mention.

Brits, a tinny island, still claiming world power status, calling Argentinian Malvinas their Falkland :lol:

Come on

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Re: The Baltics

Postby Endovelico » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:55 pm

Endovelico wrote:As Typhoon says elsewhere, Germans have so perfectly integrated in the US that some of their nazi genes have become part of US DNA... Must have been something in those cold, damp caves of northern Europe where they all come from... I prescribe a couple thousand years in a warm, sunny climate... :D


it comes as no surprise that the left holds the record for the both the highest absolute number of people mass murdered {Stalin, Mao] and the highest percentage mass murdered [Pol Pot].


The Nanking Massacre has been conveniently forgotten, but of course the Japanese were then not as efficient as Germans, so the numbers are somewhat smaller, but with a bit more practice I'm sure the scale could have been the same... :evil:
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