Liberty

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Endovelico
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Liberty

Post by Endovelico »

Greatest Threat to Free Speech Comes Not From Terrorism, But From Those Claiming to Fight It
By Glenn Greenwald
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... ing-fight/

We learned recently from Paris that the Western world is deeply and passionately committed to free expression and ready to march and fight against attempts to suppress it. That’s a really good thing, since there are all sorts of severe suppression efforts underway in the West — perpetrated not by The Terrorists but by the Western politicians claiming to fight them.

One of the most alarming examples comes, not at all surprisingly, from the U.K. government, which is currently agitating for new counterterrorism powers, “including plans for extremism disruption orders designed to restrict those trying to radicalize young people.” Here are the powers which the British Freedom Fighters and Democracy Protectors are seeking:

They would include a ban on broadcasting and a requirement to submit to the police in advance any proposed publication on the web and social media or in print. The bill will also contain plans for banning orders for extremist organisations which seek to undermine democracy or use hate speech in public places, but it will fall short of banning on the grounds of provoking hatred.

It will also contain new powers to close premises including mosques where extremists seek to influence others. The powers of the Charity Commission to root out charities that misappropriate funds towards extremism and terrorism will also be strengthened.

In essence, advocating any ideas or working for any political outcomes regarded by British politicians as “extremist” will not only be a crime, but can be physically banned in advance. Basking in his election victory, Prime Minister David Cameron unleashed this Orwellian decree to explain why new Thought Police powers are needed: “For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens ‘as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone.'” It’s not enough for British subjects merely to “obey the law”; they must refrain from believing in or expressing ideas which Her Majesty’s Government dislikes.

If all that sounds menacing, tyrannical and even fascist to you — and really, how could it not? “extremism disruption orders” — you should really watch this video of Tory Home Secretary Theresa May trying to justify the bill in an interview on BBC this morning. When pressed on what “extremism” means — specifically, when something crosses the line from legitimate disagreement into criminal “extremism” — she evades the question completely, repeatedly invoking creepy slogans about the need to stop those who seek to “undermine Our British Values” and, instead, ensure “we are together as one society, One Nation” (I personally believe this was all more lyrical in its original German). Click here to watch the video and see the face of Western authoritarianism, advocating powers in the name of Freedom that are its very antithesis.

Threats to free speech can come from lots of places. But right now, the greatest threat by far in the West to ideals of free expression is coming not from radical Muslims, but from the very Western governments claiming to fight them. The increasingly unhinged, Cheney-sounding governments of the U.K., Australia, France, New Zealand and Canada — joining the U.S. — have a seemingly insatiable desire to curb freedoms in the name of protecting them: prosecuting people for Facebook postings critical of Western militarism or selling “radical” cable channels, imprisoning people for “radical” tweets, banning websites containing ideas they dislike, seeking (and obtaining) new powers of surveillance and detention for those people (usually though not exclusively Muslim citizens) who hold and espouse views deemed by these governments to be “radical.”

Anticipating Prime Minister Cameron’s new “anti-extremist” bill (to be unveiled in the “Queen’s Speech”), University of Bath Professor Bill Durodié said that “the window for free speech has now been firmly shut just a few months after so many political leaders walked in supposed solidarity for murdered cartoonists in France.” Actually, there has long been a broad, sustained assault in the West on core political liberties — specifically due process, free speech and free assembly — perpetrated not by “radical Muslims,” but by those who endlessly claim to fight them. Sadly, and tellingly, none of that has triggered parades or marches or widespread condemnation by Western journalists and pundits. But for those who truly believe in principles of free expression — as opposed to pretending to when it allows one to bash the Other Tribe — these are the assaults that need marches and protests.
I'm afraid we will soon be forced to take up arms to defend our liberty. If we can't get rid of the oligarchy's terrorism by means of the ballot box, we will have to do it by the bullet. And the sooner the better...
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Typhoon
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Re: Liberty

Post by Typhoon »

Out with the old oligarchs!

In with the new!
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
noddy
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Re: Liberty

Post by noddy »

Endovelico wrote:
Greatest Threat to Free Speech Comes Not From Terrorism, But From Those Claiming to Fight It
By Glenn Greenwald
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... ing-fight/

We learned recently from Paris that the Western world is deeply and passionately committed to free expression and ready to march and fight against attempts to suppress it. That’s a really good thing, since there are all sorts of severe suppression efforts underway in the West — perpetrated not by The Terrorists but by the Western politicians claiming to fight them.

One of the most alarming examples comes, not at all surprisingly, from the U.K. government, which is currently agitating for new counterterrorism powers, “including plans for extremism disruption orders designed to restrict those trying to radicalize young people.” Here are the powers which the British Freedom Fighters and Democracy Protectors are seeking:

They would include a ban on broadcasting and a requirement to submit to the police in advance any proposed publication on the web and social media or in print. The bill will also contain plans for banning orders for extremist organisations which seek to undermine democracy or use hate speech in public places, but it will fall short of banning on the grounds of provoking hatred.

It will also contain new powers to close premises including mosques where extremists seek to influence others. The powers of the Charity Commission to root out charities that misappropriate funds towards extremism and terrorism will also be strengthened.

In essence, advocating any ideas or working for any political outcomes regarded by British politicians as “extremist” will not only be a crime, but can be physically banned in advance. Basking in his election victory, Prime Minister David Cameron unleashed this Orwellian decree to explain why new Thought Police powers are needed: “For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens ‘as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone.'” It’s not enough for British subjects merely to “obey the law”; they must refrain from believing in or expressing ideas which Her Majesty’s Government dislikes.

If all that sounds menacing, tyrannical and even fascist to you — and really, how could it not? “extremism disruption orders” — you should really watch this video of Tory Home Secretary Theresa May trying to justify the bill in an interview on BBC this morning. When pressed on what “extremism” means — specifically, when something crosses the line from legitimate disagreement into criminal “extremism” — she evades the question completely, repeatedly invoking creepy slogans about the need to stop those who seek to “undermine Our British Values” and, instead, ensure “we are together as one society, One Nation” (I personally believe this was all more lyrical in its original German). Click here to watch the video and see the face of Western authoritarianism, advocating powers in the name of Freedom that are its very antithesis.

Threats to free speech can come from lots of places. But right now, the greatest threat by far in the West to ideals of free expression is coming not from radical Muslims, but from the very Western governments claiming to fight them. The increasingly unhinged, Cheney-sounding governments of the U.K., Australia, France, New Zealand and Canada — joining the U.S. — have a seemingly insatiable desire to curb freedoms in the name of protecting them: prosecuting people for Facebook postings critical of Western militarism or selling “radical” cable channels, imprisoning people for “radical” tweets, banning websites containing ideas they dislike, seeking (and obtaining) new powers of surveillance and detention for those people (usually though not exclusively Muslim citizens) who hold and espouse views deemed by these governments to be “radical.”

Anticipating Prime Minister Cameron’s new “anti-extremist” bill (to be unveiled in the “Queen’s Speech”), University of Bath Professor Bill Durodié said that “the window for free speech has now been firmly shut just a few months after so many political leaders walked in supposed solidarity for murdered cartoonists in France.” Actually, there has long been a broad, sustained assault in the West on core political liberties — specifically due process, free speech and free assembly — perpetrated not by “radical Muslims,” but by those who endlessly claim to fight them. Sadly, and tellingly, none of that has triggered parades or marches or widespread condemnation by Western journalists and pundits. But for those who truly believe in principles of free expression — as opposed to pretending to when it allows one to bash the Other Tribe — these are the assaults that need marches and protests.
I'm afraid we will soon be forced to take up arms to defend our liberty. If we can't get rid of the oligarchy's terrorism by means of the ballot box, we will have to do it by the bullet. And the sooner the better...
most westerners want the world sterilized , they have made a religion out of fear, i wouldnt go waiting for a revolution, id focus on creating a little niche you can hide yourself from the worst of it.
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Endovelico
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Re: Liberty

Post by Endovelico »

noddy wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Greatest Threat to Free Speech Comes Not From Terrorism, But From Those Claiming to Fight It
most westerners want the world sterilized , they have made a religion out of fear, i wouldnt go waiting for a revolution, id focus on creating a little niche you can hide yourself from the worst of it.
I agree 100% with your first statement, but not with the second. The oligarchy has indeed succeeded in paralyzing us with fear. That's why it was so refreshing seeing the Greeks voting for an anti-establishment party. But as soon as they did the whole apparatus of the oligarchy fell on them trying to destroy the experiment before it spread to other countries. And we, the other victims, immediately joined the chorus of criticism, not understanding that Tsipras is our true representative. If he wins, we win, if he loses, we lose. As such, "revolution" is no longer taking the Winter Palace by force, it is electing those who are not afraid of fighting back. But as we have just seen in the UK, the jailer has been reappointed and will continue destroying liberty over there... Maybe the Britons do not deserve any better...
noddy
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Re: Liberty

Post by noddy »

Endovelico wrote:
noddy wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Greatest Threat to Free Speech Comes Not From Terrorism, But From Those Claiming to Fight It
most westerners want the world sterilized , they have made a religion out of fear, i wouldnt go waiting for a revolution, id focus on creating a little niche you can hide yourself from the worst of it.
I agree 100% with your first statement, but not with the second. The oligarchy has indeed succeeded in paralyzing us with fear. That's why it was so refreshing seeing the Greeks voting for an anti-establishment party. But as soon as they did the whole apparatus of the oligarchy fell on them trying to destroy the experiment before it spread to other countries. And we, the other victims, immediately joined the chorus of criticism, not understanding that Tsipras is our true representative. If he wins, we win, if he loses, we lose. As such, "revolution" is no longer taking the Winter Palace by force, it is electing those who are not afraid of fighting back. But as we have just seen in the UK, the jailer has been reappointed and will continue destroying liberty over there... Maybe the Britons do not deserve any better...
the greek guy is utterly dissapointing, he could have been a force for change but instead is positing as just another technocrat wanting to maintain the status quo - his most radical stance is that he can re-ijggery-buggery the loans so that the payments can be paid.

the brits are actually more radical in their approach againt anti democratic forces coming from the un/eu but ill wait and see how it pans out in reality before worrying to much about hyperoblic worst case scenarios from el guardian.

no nation has show a version of moderinity worth copying, all are full of status quo merchants out of their depth and this is what makes the people scared and feeds the xenophobia, the oligarchs just exploit it, they dont create it.
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YMix
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Re: Liberty

Post by YMix »

Endovelico wrote:The oligarchy has indeed succeeded in paralyzing us with fear.
As much as I dislike the oligarchy, I have to disagree. Technological progress driven by capital is pushing us into a new era, one that does not hold the promise of continued prosperity for the West. At the same time, insurgent movements are gathering on the fringes. The old order is changing and that makes everybody nervous. In theory, the rulers and the citizens should make an effort to understand what's going on and rise to the challenge of charting a course through these treacherous waters. In practice, I'm pretty certain that the oligarchs are just as scared as the citizens.

The West has a big sign on its door: Scapegoats wanted. All foreigners, foreigner-lovers and onepercenters inquire within.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Typhoon
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Re: Liberty

Post by Typhoon »

YMix wrote:
Endovelico wrote:The oligarchy has indeed succeeded in paralyzing us with fear.
As much as I dislike the oligarchy, I have to disagree. Technological progress driven by capital is pushing us into a new era, one that does not hold the promise of continued prosperity for the West. At the same time, insurgent movements are gathering on the fringes. The old order is changing and that makes everybody nervous. In theory, the rulers and the citizens should make an effort to understand what's going on and rise to the challenge of charting a course through these treacherous waters. In practice, I'm pretty certain that the oligarchs are just as scared as the citizens.

The West has a big sign on its door: Scapegoats wanted. All foreigners, foreigner-lovers and onepercenters inquire within.
And nearly just as clueless about the future.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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YMix
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Re: Liberty

Post by YMix »

Typhoon wrote:And nearly just as clueless about the future.
Of course. Otherwise they wouldn't be $hitting their pants. :)
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Liberty

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

image001.jpg
image001.jpg (34.71 KiB) Viewed 1589 times

Was thinkin to post this in "Levitas" .. not only funny but quite weird Francis sayin this .. he basically sayin
there's no G_D, feel free to freelance

Well, somebody should tell this to those folks chased out of Latvia and Estonia and Ukraine claiming G_D promised them Palestinian homes and olive grooves

Francis sayin forget G_D, being a "MENSCH" is what counts in life


Well, folks, that is what Molana (Rumi) and so many giants of Persian literature & philosophy .. and Azari .. sayin.

At last, Francis, discovered Molana :D


Nb6nW1BV_H8

.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Liberty

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


HQJ3sqkdCRE
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Liberty

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
image001.jpg

Was thinkin to post this in "Levitas" .. not only funny but quite weird Francis sayin this .. he basically sayin
there's no G_D, feel free to freelance

Well, somebody should tell this to those folks chased out of Latvia and Estonia and Ukraine claiming G_D promised them Palestinian homes and olive grooves

Francis sayin forget G_D, being a "MENSCH" is what counts in life


Well, folks, that is what Molana (Rumi) and so many giants of Persian literature & philosophy .. and Azari .. sayin.

At last, Francis, discovered Molana :D


Nb6nW1BV_H8

.
No, believing in God can make one greater than just a good person. Being a good person is a minimum easily achievable by everyone.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Liberty

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:.

No, believing in God can make one greater than just a good person.

.

true

Nonc Hilaire wrote:.

Being a good person is a minimum easily achievable by everyone.

.

apparently not .. otherwise evil doers would not over-run the planet :)

.
manolo
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Re: Liberty

Post by manolo »

Folks,

This thread has been a good read. :)

Alex.
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