Political reform

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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Political reform

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Parodite wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:We are beyond legislation. Legislation is meaningless to a corrupt justice system.
So this suggests we need to get rid of corruption in the justice system as well. Maybe first. This can be easily done if enough people want it and choose a political program that does it for them. I have not seen such a program so there ias a huge opportunity.

The US domination of world finance is defeated.
It seems to me that the only problem the US has is that it runs on too much debt. Can easily bi fixed.
Without honesty and the rule of law, all is illusion.
Bit chicken or egg. No rule of law breeds dishonesty and vice versa. Both tracks can be invested in seperately to mutual benefit.
Not too much debt. Entirely on debt. The US is no longer a capitalist country.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Not too much debt. Entirely on debt. The US is no longer a capitalist country.
Aside definitions, there is real economy in the US and value. True, the federal deficit is steadily growing and a turn to run many steady years of surpluss to claw out of the deepening pit unlikely. This means default: voluntarily or after an uncontrolled big bang. Or after slow deflation death.

The US gvt is considered too big to fail. The global repercussions and shockwaves not an option. But I beg to differ. Default is a tough medicine, but all alternatives are worse. The US $ and international debt surplusses need a controlled demolition and a new currenccy ready to be launched. Actually I start to like Greece's Varoufakis who was the only sensible person to anticipate a default and Grexit, working on a new Drachme and shadow banking system ready to pick up the pieces. Some Greek banks want to sue him for it. Obviously. People with vested interests in the current system of course want everybody to believe that default would be a disaster.. but they don't look beyond the size of their d*cks.

Even if the bubble pops uncontrolled and way too late making it massive..economies always pick up again with new currencies.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Political reform

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Every prediction of the US economic collapse has been 100% correct and 1,000% premature.

Still, hungry people have teeth and a desperate desire to bite into something.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Every prediction of the US economic collapse has been 100% correct and 1,000% premature.

Still, hungry people have teeth and a desperate desire to bite into something.
True.. but not anticipating rather disastrous reasonable possibilities is plain stupid. The 2008 crash almost had us all by the balls and drag us down the gutter. It could happen again and the coin might fall the other way.

No plan-B.. ok. It's a thriller.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Political reform

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Parodite wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:Every prediction of the US economic collapse has been 100% correct and 1,000% premature.

Still, hungry people have teeth and a desperate desire to bite into something.
True.. but not anticipating rather disastrous reasonable possibilities is plain stupid. The 2008 crash almost had us all by the balls and drag us down the gutter. It could happen again and the coin might fall the other way.

No plan-B.. ok. It's a thriller.
It's like sumo. Bigger is better even if it's just fat.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:The problem with the two party system is that when you vote against the party that you consider to be 40% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 60 mph, your vote is indistinguishable from absolute approval of the alternative party that you consider to be 30% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 50 mph.
Seems to me a good objective to fight for a multi-party system. How you gonna make this happen? Same question for other the niceties mentioned..
In my ideal political fantasy world, there would be six parties from Left (Big Govt.) to Right (Small Govt.) they would be
1. Communist
2. Socialist
3. Democrat
4. Republican
5. Capitalist
6. Libertarian

But since I think culture drives politics, and not the reverse, I doubt the effect would be significant, other than it would be interesting to see each party wax & wane as a measure of current zeitgeist in each city, county, state, or nation. Assuming of course the parties remained pure, and people voted their conscience. Both extremely low probabilities.

How would I make this happen? No idea. I can't imagine a more unsatisfying occupation than trying to sell my minority views to the majority. A better ROI on my time and effort would be training to become the first world sumo champion.
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Simple Minded wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:The problem with the two party system is that when you vote against the party that you consider to be 40% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 60 mph, your vote is indistinguishable from absolute approval of the alternative party that you consider to be 30% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 50 mph.
Seems to me a good objective to fight for a multi-party system. How you gonna make this happen? Same question for other the niceties mentioned..
In my ideal political fantasy world, there would be six parties from Left (Big Govt.) to Right (Small Govt.) they would be
1. Communist
2. Socialist
3. Democrat
4. Republican
5. Capitalist
6. Libertarian
Excellent. Concurred.
But since I think culture drives politics, and not the reverse,
I think there is just a lot of intricate interaction in many directions.

[quote[ I doubt the effect would be significant, other than it would be interesting to see each party wax & wane as a measure of current zeitgeist in each city, county, state, or nation. Assuming of course the parties remained pure, and people voted their conscience. Both extremely low probabilities. [/quote]

It creates better debates in parliament when people talk about issues from different angles and perspectives.
How would I make this happen? No idea. I can't imagine a more unsatisfying occupation than trying to sell my minority views to the majority. A better ROI on my time and effort would be training to become the first world sumo champion.
In the US indeed it is pointless perhaps. The religious two-party system has too many vested interests to change any time soon.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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YMix
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Re: Political reform

Post by YMix »

Simple Minded wrote:In my ideal political fantasy world, there would be six parties from Left (Big Govt.) to Right (Small Govt.) they would be
1. Communist
2. Socialist
3. Democrat
4. Republican
5. Capitalist
6. Libertarian
This list is already badly outdated because communist and socialist parties are no longer viable options in "the West", except as eternal minority parties. You can't run a classic communist/socialist party when part of your proletariat is in China/India/Latin America/Africa and another part is made of migrants who don't have the right to vote.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

YMix wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:In my ideal political fantasy world, there would be six parties from Left (Big Govt.) to Right (Small Govt.) they would be
1. Communist
2. Socialist
3. Democrat
4. Republican
5. Capitalist
6. Libertarian
This list is already badly outdated because communist and socialist parties are no longer viable options in "the West", except as eternal minority parties. You can't run a classic communist/socialist party when part of your proletariat is in China/India/Latin America/Africa and another part is made of migrants who don't have the right to vote.
Here the communist party is indeed extinct.. but we have a vibrant socialist party, the SP. They are not small.. but never made it into a coalition government. They do well when Labor (PvdA) is in the government and sells out a number of their ideals to CDA (Christian Democrats center politics) and/or the big liberal party VVD (libertarians). We now have a PvdA+VVD gvt. Social issues however always have a strong represention in any gvt. and parliament. SP is considered the moral backbone of Labor.

There also is a small Christian party that is the moral backbone of CDA. Apart from being anti-gay marriage and showing a deep love for the royal family.. the social agenda of these Christian knuckleheads is indistinguishable from that of SP.

Outlier Wilders with his PVV tend to increase and decrease in size depending on the weather. Sometimes they are the biggest party in polls, some months later its size is halved. But noone wants to join them in any gvt.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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YMix
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Re: Political reform

Post by YMix »

Parodite wrote:SP is considered the moral backbone of Labor.
That's... nice. :|
the social agenda of these Christian knuckleheads is indistinguishable from that of SP.
That's how it should be.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:
In the US indeed it is pointless perhaps. The religious two-party system has too many vested interests to change any time soon.
There is indeed such a thing as structural inertia. As we have both noted, lots of teats.

Thankfully, for the most part, both parties in DC spend most of there time focusing on irrelevant crap like steroids in professional sports, and who is using the word "marriage" in what context.

The downside is they are not focusing on basic government, the upside is that by being involved in so many sideshows, they are probably doing less damage.

Local cultures still dominate, so voting with one's feet in response to local culture is a much more efficient way to cope.
Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

YMix wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:In my ideal political fantasy world, there would be six parties from Left (Big Govt.) to Right (Small Govt.) they would be
1. Communist
2. Socialist
3. Democrat
4. Republican
5. Capitalist
6. Libertarian
This list is already badly outdated because communist and socialist parties are no longer viable options in "the West", except as eternal minority parties. You can't run a classic communist/socialist party when part of your proletariat is in China/India/Latin America/Africa and another part is made of migrants who don't have the right to vote.
With six parties, I would expect each to be a minority party most of the time.
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