Political reform

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Parodite
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Political reform

Post by Parodite »

What started in the Greece thread but didn't belong there..

Political reform, direct democracy, new ideas..any.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Political reform

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Parodite wrote:What started in the Greece thread but didn't belong there..

Political reform, direct democracy, new ideas..any.
Eliminate all but the most local elections. Get rid of the whole leadership cult/careerist thing.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

Get rid of the idea of the Federal govt. being in the national charity business. The locals know where the problems are, and best how to prioritize solutions and allocate resources.

Accept the fact that there is no national culture. Don't expect people from ND to understand what is going on in NC.

Same for white culture, black culture, straight, gay, male, female, rich, poor etc. cultures.

Recognize that people speak only for themselves. Don't pretend that anyone represents a "community."

Eliminate Gerrymandering, perimeters of political district should be drawn to minimize perimeter length.
Last edited by Simple Minded on Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Parodite wrote:What started in the Greece thread but didn't belong there..

Political reform, direct democracy, new ideas..any.
Get rid of the whole leadership cult/careerist thing.
That would be an interesting challenge. The idea of POTUS as divine being capable of god-like good or evil or magic seems to be a personal preference.

Maybe the result of contemporary POTI taking credit for the good while blaming previous POTI for all evil over the last few decades?
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Sounds like the beginning of another secessionst wave. Anything left for the fed gvt? or the FED? Should the banking system but cut to pieces following local territorial lines? Army? Constitution? Sounds like a huge operation.. and a fight with those who suck the titties of all that is done centrally.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:Sounds like the beginning of another secessionst wave. Anything left for the fed gvt? or the FED? Should the banking system but cut to pieces following local territorial lines? Army? Constitution? Sounds like a huge operation.. and a fight with those who suck the titties of all that is done centrally.
More like a return to basics. It is cyclical or pendulumatic.

Banking: free market. People are good at deciding who to do business with and who to avoid.

Army & Constitution? Yes the former according to the later.

Weaning the central tittie suckers will be tough. Lots of teats, lots of suckees!

;)
Last edited by Simple Minded on Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Simple Minded wrote:
Parodite wrote:Sounds like the beginning of another secessionst wave. Anything left for the fed gvt? or the FED? Should the banking system but cut to pieces following local territorial lines? Army? Constitution? Sounds like a huge operation.. and a fight with those who suck the titties of all that is done centrally.
More lie a return to basics. It is cyclical or pendulumatic.

Banking: free market. People are good at deciding who to do business with and who to avoid.

Army & Constitution? Yes the former according to the later.

Weaning the central tittie suckers will be tough. Lots of teats, lots of suckees!

;)
Im not so worried about small babies sucking the many central titties in gvt jobs.. but about the financial cartels..their political buddies..those who control the regulatory bodies..and who have most of the money and power. How you gonna down the Giant.
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Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:
Im not so worried about small babies sucking the many central titties in gvt jobs.. but about the financial cartels..their political buddies..those who control the regulatory bodies..and who have most of the money and power. How you gonna down the Giant.
Power does corrupt. Not surprisingly, those who scream for more regulation to cure an injustice often find they have merely exchanged one master for another. And still the ingrates complain....... ;)

In my world, it seems that for most, their worst oppressor lives inside their heads. But like I said above many tittie suckers exist.

As central govt. get more controlling, voting with your feet or your wallet gets less effective.

I suspect that several decades of difficult financial times will be required to effect a societal change in morality. Much like the obese person who complains about the cost of health care for decades, then after the first or second or third heart attack, suddenly becomes aware, that much of what they previously complained about was within their control their entire lives.

Expecting the leaders to be more moral than the flock never seems realistic.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Political reform

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Simple Minded wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Im not so worried about small babies sucking the many central titties in gvt jobs.. but about the financial cartels..their political buddies..those who control the regulatory bodies..and who have most of the money and power. How you gonna down the Giant.
Power does corrupt. Not surprisingly, those who scream for more regulation to cure an injustice often find they have merely exchanged one master for another. And still the ingrates complain....... ;)

In my world, it seems that for most, their worst oppressor lives inside their heads. But like I said above many tittie suckers exist.

As central govt. get more controlling, voting with your feet or your wallet gets less effective.

I suspect that several decades of difficult financial times will be required to effect a societal change in morality. Much like the obese person who complains about the cost of health care for decades, then after the first or second or third heart attack, suddenly becomes aware, that much of what they previously complained about was within their control their entire lives.

Expecting the leaders to be more moral than the flock never seems realistic.
The days of printing bonds and pretending to sell them to shill dealers offshore seems limited. Like SM says, when this free money stops and suppliers want to be paid in RMB instead of dollars the Giant will be brought down to size. It will hurt, though.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
noddy
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Re: Political reform

Post by noddy »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Eliminate all but the most local elections.
this is my utopian dream - i dont believe for one second it will happen but its a pleasant dream none the less.

the closer the politics is to me, the less diluted my vote and the higher the chance the issues and priorities are relevant to me.

in my country we have 3 layers of politics - local councils, state and then federal and the areas of grey in responsibility allow corruption and incompetence and blame games to flourish

ideally federal would be purely international relations and all the power pushed back to states which would be gatherings of councils.
Nonc Hilaire wrote: Get rid of the whole leadership cult/careerist thing.
now your being extra-super-utopian++ heh.

adults acting like adults!?!@?!?!?!?!? .
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Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

The problem with the two party system is that when you vote against the party that you consider to be 40% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 60 mph, your vote is indistinguishable from absolute approval of the alternative party that you consider to be 30% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 50 mph.
Simple Minded

Re: Political reform

Post by Simple Minded »

Nonc Hilaire wrote: The days of printing bonds and pretending to sell them to shill dealers offshore seems limited. Like SM says, when this free money stops and suppliers want to be paid in RMB instead of dollars the Giant will be brought down to size. It will hurt, though.
I think the morality of society's "leaders" is often merely an indicator of what "society" in general finds acceptable. Otherwise the pitchforks come out.

I think that the "We are the 99% oppressed by the 1%!" movement is just an initial step, which hopefully will morph into a "We are the 80% who are oppressed by ourselves, we are hitting our pain threshold, starting to wake up, and quit being self-destructive!" zeitgeist. But then again, I’m always the dreamer……..

The yutes are becoming more anti-debt, anti-conspicuous consumption/status, and more civil minded just like their grandparents/great grandparents.

The "Succeeding generations over correct the excesses of previous generations." "If you want a new idea, read an old book." "There is nothing new under the sun." "The fault is not in our stars but in ourselves." phenomena.
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Alexis
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One Man, One Vote - The Solution

Post by Alexis »

Parodite wrote:Political reform, direct democracy, new ideas..any.
Build a world "One Man - One Vote" system: a single vote for a single man.

That man being me, with the only vote to cast.

I promise to be a good Dictator.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Political reform

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


.

- Children of Congress members do not have to pay back their college student loans.

- Staffers of Congress family members are also exempt from having to payback student loans.

- Members of Congress can retire at full pay after only one term.

- Members of Congress have exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed, under which ordinary citizens must live.

- For example, they are exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment.

- And as the latest example, they have exempted themselves from Healthcare Reform, in all of its aspects.

Must not tolerate an elite class of such people, elected as public servants and then putting themselves above the law.


Governors of 35 states have filed suit against the Federal Government for imposing unlawful burdens upon their states. It only takes 38 (of the 50) States to convene a Constitutional Convention.



* * * * * * * * * Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States * * * * * * * * *


Constitution :

"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the Citizens of the United States ..."

.

.
Simple Minded

Re: One Man, One Vote - The Solution

Post by Simple Minded »

Alexis wrote:
Parodite wrote:Political reform, direct democracy, new ideas..any.
Build a world "One Man - One Vote" system: a single vote for a single man.

That man being me, with the only vote to cast.

I promise to be a good Dictator.
wow! You look exactly like I imagined...... how weird is that? ;)

We could use a good dictator for a change..... how many languages do you speak?
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Simple Minded wrote:The problem with the two party system is that when you vote against the party that you consider to be 40% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 60 mph, your vote is indistinguishable from absolute approval of the alternative party that you consider to be 30% insane, and taking us to Hell in a hand basket at 50 mph.
Seems to me a good objective to fight for a multi-party system. How you gonna make this happen? Same question for other the niceties mentioned..
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

So, as a thought experiment, let's say I want those reforms/changes.. how make it happen?

1. Banks should not be allowed to grow bigger than a certain maximum, S(max). In order to preserve a healthy and diverse competition.
2. The repeal of the Glass-Steagall act should be repealed. Or something similar that re-instates the wall of separation between commercial banking and the much more risky speculative security banking.
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Re: Political reform

Post by noddy »

im not convinced the banks are the root cause of the nightmare - i figure those problems are symptons of lack of real investement and innovation and lazy people chasing easy money via stock market scams and housing bubbles.

in my country the biggest required political reform is 3 layers of government - local councils need to be removed and the federals have to be stripped back to foreign policy only.
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

noddy wrote:im not convinced the banks are the root cause of the nightmare - i figure those problems are symptons of lack of real investement and innovation and lazy people chasing easy money via stock market scams and housing bubbles.
Maybe, but my point is more that if you want a certain change/reform.. how make it happen?

I do think that a maximum size for banks would be a good thing. Spread/compartimentalization of risk..i.e. no more too-big-to-fail etc. I also think the people who manage banks in the top echelons.. should also have their private worth be exposed to the risks they take. The latter is not the case which gives those people risk-free incentives for the gains are privitised and the losses socialized. They always win. Not good. I also think there should be a limit to the complexity of financial products for it becomes impossible to monitor and apply law enforcement on it.

Good ideas or not, it seems to me that the problem of making it happen is, that I have no idea what needs to happen, which hurdles on what roads I will meet on the way. And worst of all.. I suspect that most of those hurdles and decision points in the chains and structure are not even open to a democratic vote! The vested interests and bureaucratic traps in this are such that no elected public offical could ever change it.. even if the whole nation would want it. Or am I too pessimistic?
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Re: Political reform

Post by noddy »

i think the hardest hurdle and the one that isnt covered by the conspiracy theories and whatnot is the people themselves chasing the highest returns for the least work on their savings and their super - they aggregated on these products

this happens from both individuals and institutions.

the thing that failed was not letting them go broke and bailing them out with tax payer money - instead of getting a big hard lesson in chasing higher interest rates from dodgier financial products they got the opposite lesson.

only if they had of suffered at the hands of these dodgy setups, they would they have got the lesson to be more cautious next time and chosen a more boring local bank that got its cash flow from savings and investments.

it requires politicians to express the problem in that language instead of the corrupt a-holes protecting the bankers aswell.... this is the even more difficult bit :)
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

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noddy wrote:i think the hardest hurdle and the one that isnt covered by the conspiracy theories and whatnot is the people themselves chasing the highest returns for the least work on their savings and their super - they aggregated on these products

this happens from both individuals and institutions.

the thing that failed was not letting them go broke and bailing them out with tax payer money - instead of getting a big hard lesson in chasing higher interest rates from dodgier financial products they got the opposite lesson.

only if they had of suffered at the hands of these dodgy setups, they would they have got the lesson to be more cautious next time and chosen a more boring local bank that got its cash flow from savings and investments.

it requires politicians to express the problem in that language instead of the corrupt a-holes protecting the bankers aswell.... this is the even more difficult bit :)
Yes its a two way thing. Consumers put their money deliberately in banks also at their own peril and experiencing pain when a bank fails you.. should in general raise the eye brows wtf is happening with those banksters and look for a better bank. I have hardly any eye brow left lately.

If politicians don't bring these boring technicalities and durty but crucial details to the fore as key issues of a political program.. and noone demands them to do so and prefers to enjoy these peep show elections where all that matters is who is able to expose the butt of who to the hall of shame..
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Political reform

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Parodite wrote:
noddy wrote:i think the hardest hurdle and the one that isnt covered by the conspiracy theories and whatnot is the people themselves chasing the highest returns for the least work on their savings and their super - they aggregated on these products

this happens from both individuals and institutions.

the thing that failed was not letting them go broke and bailing them out with tax payer money - instead of getting a big hard lesson in chasing higher interest rates from dodgier financial products they got the opposite lesson.

only if they had of suffered at the hands of these dodgy setups, they would they have got the lesson to be more cautious next time and chosen a more boring local bank that got its cash flow from savings and investments.

it requires politicians to express the problem in that language instead of the corrupt a-holes protecting the bankers aswell.... this is the even more difficult bit :)
Yes its a two way thing. Consumers put their money deliberately in banks also at their own peril and experiencing pain when a bank fails you.. should in general raise the eye brows wtf is happening with those banksters and look for a better bank. I have hardly any eye brow left lately.

If politicians don't bring these boring technicalities and durty but crucial details to the fore as key issues of a political program.. and noone demands them to do so and prefers to enjoy these peep show elections where all that matters is who is able to expose the butt of who to the hall of shame..
In the US safeguards are supposed to exist. Deposit insurance, but all insurance is beginning to be recognized as a scam. Banks get a guaranteed 6% return on Fed deposits. It was returned to depositors on CD's and T-bills. Recent legislation has proposed reducing this to 1.5% because the banks are now appropriating it, and this is the impetus behind the soft capital controls in the US. Bankers are panicking in fear of no more money and chicks for free.

Unboubtedly the legislature will protect the bankers.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
If politicians don't bring these boring technicalities and durty but crucial details to the fore as key issues of a political program.. and noone demands them to do so and prefers to enjoy these peep show elections where all that matters is who is able to expose the butt of who to the hall of shame..
In the US safeguards are supposed to exist. Deposit insurance, but all insurance is beginning to be recognized as a scam. Banks get a guaranteed 6% return on Fed deposits. It was returned to depositors on CD's and T-bills. Recent legislation has proposed reducing this to 1.5% because the banks are now appropriating it, and this is the impetus behind the soft capital controls in the US. Bankers are panicking in fear of no more money and chicks for free.

Unboubtedly the legislature will protect the bankers.
Drowning a bit in the terminolgy here.. but your last sentence summarizes my point I guess. So the question is what legislation needs to change to make reforms x/y/z a reality and how to achieve it via a democratic vote. It seems to me that the hurdles on the way: 1) need to be identified, and 2) what is needed for them to be removed, 3) make that happen.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Political reform

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

We are beyond legislation. Legislation is meaningless to a corrupt justice system. The US domination of world finance is defeated.

Without honesty and the rule of law, all is illusion.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Parodite
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Re: Political reform

Post by Parodite »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:We are beyond legislation. Legislation is meaningless to a corrupt justice system.
So this suggests we need to get rid of corruption in the justice system as well. Maybe first. This can be easily done if enough people want it and choose a political program that does it for them. I have not seen such a program so there ias a huge opportunity.

The US domination of world finance is defeated.
It seems to me that the only problem the US has is that it runs on too much debt. Can easily bi fixed.
Without honesty and the rule of law, all is illusion.
Bit chicken or egg. No rule of law breeds dishonesty and vice versa. Both tracks can be invested in seperately to mutual benefit.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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