Romania

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YMix
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

Romania's left looks set to return to power, exit polls from Sunday's parliamentary election suggest. The Social Democratic Party's (PSD) resurgence comes little more than a year after a corruption crackdown forced its last leader from power. Victor Ponta resigned after a deadly nightclub fire in October 2015, which became a platform for wider discontent. It appears to have won around 45% of the vote after standing on a promise to raise wages, the polls suggest. The PSD also promised increases in pensions and tax cuts. Its nearest rival, the centre-right National Liberal Party (PNL), is far behind on 20%, according to the polls.

[...]

But while corruption is clearly a concern for voters, Romania's next prime minister could be the PSD's party leader Liviu Dragnea, who is currently serving a suspended sentence for electoral fraud, which legally bars him from office. He denies any wrongdoing. His predecessor, Mr Ponta, is the subject of a corruption inquiry - charges he also denies.
:roll:
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by noddy »

look on the bright side, they are leftists, so they will say nice things while they steal everything.
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Re: Romania

Post by noddy »

tis a shame to see your optimism at the anti corruption drive take a nosedive.

or is that your pessimism is optimism and its good news.

something like that.
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Re: Romania

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It remains to be seen. The PSD will obviously attempt to stop the anti-corruption campaign and not entirely without cause. While the PSD is basically a machine party (nominally on the left) and corrupt to the bone, it's also true that the party was the major target of the anti-corruption campaign, while the so-called right wing parties got a pass. This wasn't because the so-called right wing parties were powerful enough control the DNA, but rather because a series of foreign governments, led by the USA, intervened quite openly to protect the campaign. With Trump on the way to the White House, the US ambassador has basically sat out the Romanian election and the right wing rout was complete. I've heard rumors that the leading DNA prosecutors had demanded protection in the shape of US citizenship some years ago, when things started getting kinda heated.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

Eastern European political trouble! Oh, my!

Background: The events of the 20th century have shaped Eastern European politics in a peculiar manner. Right-wing parties tend to legitimate themselves by rejecting the communist past and by being good friends with Washington, Brussels, the IMF, the World Bank and so on. Their voters tend to be younger, urban, middle/upper class, internationalists. The left-wing parties are the de facto conservatives ('sup Mr. Perfect) and they inherited the losers of capitalism: old people, poor people with few/no skills, rurals. By default, the so-called right-wing (SCRW) parties are internationalist-progressive and their constituency is in USA-Western Europe, while the SCLW are nationalist-welfare and their constituency is the underclass. The SCRW parties' success depends on assuring the urban middle class that they will obey their foreign neoliberal masters and thus bring prosperity. The Save Romania Union (USR) is a less clear proposition. They took the expert/competency and mildly pro-business thing from the right-wing and the people/environment thing from the leftists so they are... center-left? center? I have no idea.

The cast:
PSD - SCLW
PNL - SCRW
USR - New kids on the block!
PMP, ALDE - pocket parties for their leaders (Traian Basescu, Calin Popescu-Tariceanu)
UDMR - Magyar whore party, never seen a ruling coalition they didn't like, never refused to join a cabinet

Foreground: In Romania, the SCRW were the Democrats (PD) and the National Liberals (PNL). The Democrats were ground down in the fights between Traian Basescu and the SCLW and were later absorbed by the PNL. The SCLW are the Social Democrats (PSD), a machine party with no ideology to speak of. Since nationalism belongs to the left, it was the PSD that took advantage of the famous wave of nationalism sweeping a couple of countries. During the recent campaign, the PSD went all out, telling their voters that President Iohannis cannot be trusted because he's a German, that the middle name of PM Ciolos is Julien and his wife is French and he was sent by Brussels and Soros, that the Save Romania Union (USR) cannot be trusted because they put a Frenchwoman on the (Bucharest) First District Council and that, in general, the country is in a bad situation because of all these foreigners. Between the terror attacks, nationalism and their own massive incompetence, the SCRW National Liberals were routed in a low turnout election. The PSD formed a coalition with ALDE and UDMR to secure the majority of Parliament seats. So far so good. Or bad. Whatever.

However, it turns out that PSD leader Liviu Dragnea is a bit of a joker. When it became clear that the minority parties would not allow him to become prime minister (Dragnea was awarded a suspended prison sentence), he cheekily proposed Sevil Shhaideh, a 100%... non-Romanian. Shhaideh is a woman and member of the Turkish-Tatar minority and a devoted associate of Dragnea. She hails from the sea coast and was involved in the past with the Constanta county administration, the people owned by the deeply corrupt Constanta baron/mayor and wannabe actor Radu Mazare (who liked to dress in German WWII uniforms). She is married to a Syrian guy who has spent 20 years working for the Assad government. Yeah.

Last Thursday, President Iohannis dodged what everyone saw as the inevitable and said he would consider the nomination during the Christmas holiday. Yesterday, he rejected it. The media is pushing the idea that Mr. Shhaideh is a security risk because he's Syrian. Now the war is on. My guess is that Iohannis is doing this simply for his political survival. With the PNL in ruins, he stands no chance in the next election and the only way forward is to make himself the champion of anti-PSD sentiment, rally the PNL, USR and PMP to his side, make ALDE and UDMR switch sides and inflame public opinion to boost turnout. To do this, he must keep the war going until the next presidential election. The PSD is now looking for ways to suspend him. We're all having a wonderful time.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by Simple Minded »

YMix,

Have you guys ever considered outsourcing these jobs? I'd bet the second place finisher in the recent POTUS election could be hired pretty cheap. Do all y'all have minimum wage laws? Think about it, it would be like hiring an Olympic silver medalist..... and put Romania in the news... bigly!

She has a very impressive resume' according to some.....
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

Nice try, but no. You can keep her. :)
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
noddy
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Re: Romania

Post by noddy »

YMix wrote:Eastern European political trouble! Oh, my!

Background: The events of the 20th century have shaped Eastern European politics in a peculiar manner. Right-wing parties tend to legitimate themselves by rejecting the communist past and by bring good friends with Washington, Brussels, the IMF, the World Bank and so on. Their voters tend to be younger, urban, middle/upper class, internationalists. The left-wing parties are the de facto conservatives ('sup Mr. Perfect) and they inherited the losers of capitalism: old people, poor people with few/no skills, rurals. By default, the so-called right-wing (SCRW) parties are internationalist-progressive and their constituency is in USA-Western Europe, while the SCLW are nationalist-welfare and their constituency is the underclass. The SCRW parties' success depends on assuring the urban middle class that they will obey their foreign neoliberal masters and thus bring prosperity. The Save Romania Union (USR) is a less clear proposition. They took the expert/competency and mildly pro-business thing from the right-wing and the people/environment thing from the leftists so they are... center-left? center? I have no idea.

The cast:
PSD - SCLW
PNL - SCRW
USR - New kids on the block!
PMP, ALDE - pocket parties for their leaders (Traian Basescu, Calin Popescu-Tariceanu)
UDMR - Magyar whore party, never seen a ruling coalition they didn't like, never refused to join a cabinet

Foreground: In Romania, the SCRW were the Democrats (PD) and the National Liberals (PNL). The Democrats were ground down in the fights between Traian Basescu and the SCLW and were later absorbed by the PNL. The SCLW are the Social Democrats (PSD), a machine party with no ideology to speak of. Since nationalism belongs to the left, it was the PSD that took advantage of the famous wave of nationalism sweeping a couple of countries. During the recent campaign, the PSD went all out, telling their voters that President Iohannis cannot be trusted because he's a German, that the middle name of PM Ciolos is Julien and his wife is French and he was sent by Brussels and Soros, that the Save Romania Union (USR) cannot be trusted because they put a Frenchwoman on the (Bucharest) First District Council and that, in general, the country is in a bad situation because of all these foreigners. Between the terror attacks, nationalism and their own massive incompetence, the SCRW National Liberals were routed in a low turnout election. The PSD formed a coalition with ALDE and UDMR to secure the majority of Parliament seats. So far so good. Or bad. Whatever.

However, it turns out that PSD leader Liviu Dragnea is a bit of a joker. When it became clear that the minority parties would not allow him to become prime minister (Dragnea was awarded a suspended prison sentence), he cheekily proposed Sevil Shhaideh, a 100%... non-Romanian. Shhaideh is a woman and member of the Turkish-Tatar minority and a devoted associate of Dragnea. She hails from the sea coast and was involved in the past with the Constanta county administration, the people owned by the deeply corrupt Constanta baron/mayor and wannabe actor Radu Mazare (who liked to dress in German WWII uniforms). She is married to a Syrian guy who has spent 20 years working for the Assad government. Yeah.

Last Thursday, President Iohannis dodged what everyone saw as the inevitable and said he would consider the nomination during the Christmas holiday. Yesterday, he rejected it. The media is pushing the idea that Mr. Shhaideh is a security risk because he's Syrian. Now the war is on. My guess is that Iohannis is doing this simply for his political survival. With the PNL in ruins, he stands no chance in the next election and the only way forward is to make himself the champion of anti-PSD sentiment, rally the PNL, USR and PMP to his side, make ALDE and UDMR switch sides and inflame public opinion to boost turnout. To do this, he must keep the war going until the next presidential election. The PSD is now looking for ways to suspend him. We're all having a wonderful time.
this explains our different use of language quite well, thanks for that.

we dont have nationalist left wing over here, all our left wing is internationalist intellectual with a barely concealed distaste for the icky working class and losers of capitalism, the extremes of it are the greens.

the only nationalist party we have is an unfocused reactionary right wing one which cant actually express a policy except 'too many smelly foreigners' - they couldnt muster a consistent opinion on any actual economic policy because they would be knee jerking in all directions based on the whinges of their alienated constituency.
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Re: Romania

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Well, we now have a prime minister-designate. Dragnea reconsidered and proposed a certain Sorin Grindeanu. Iohannis initially said that he would consider the nomination over the New Year's weekend, but then changed his mind and accepted it on Thursday. I think Iohannis figured out that he was pretty much alone in his war against the PSD. Even civil society* stalwart Alina Mungiu said: the PSD had won the election fair and square so Dragnea gets to nominate whoever he wants.

* down here, the basis of the civil society is the group of former dissident intellectuals. As a result, the civil society is by default on the SCRW and bitterly opposed to the SCLW.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by noddy »

Image

with a full disclaimer that judging books by their cover is wrong and childish and ermm yeh blah.

the guy actually looks like a lizard, im waiting for that tongue to flick out
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

He might well be a lizard. :)

Frankly, this is one of the more confusing aspects of the anti-corruption campaign: 10 years ago, I knew all the major figures of every party. Now, they're all gone and we have people with no national visibility, like Grindeanu and Shhaideh, being nominated for the prime ministership.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Image

anti-corruption protest in Bucharest
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

Yep. Friend of mine is right there.

The PSD hit the ground running after the election and is trying to push two bills pardoning some criminals and decriminalizing a series of corruption offenses so they and their local baron friends could steal at will. People took to the streets all over the country.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

YMix wrote:Yep. Friend of mine is right there.

The PSD hit the ground running after the election and is trying to push two bills pardoning some criminals and decriminalizing a series of corruption offenses so they and their local baron friends could steal at will. People took to the streets all over the country.
How'd it go?
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Re: Romania

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The protests went well. 28,000 in Bucharest alone last evening. It remains to be seen whether the PSD backs down or not.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

The PSD hasn't dropped those ordinances, but it hasn't pushed them through yet. 50,000 people out in Bucharest right now. Many others around the country.

It strikes me that Dragnea is a leftover from the '90s and the '00s. He doesn't realize that the younger generations aren't as apathetic as those who lived under Ceausescu. He probably thought the protests that brought down Ponta a couple of years ago and allowed him to gain control of the party were a one-off deal and that he could do just about anything he wanted. Looks like he was very wrong.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

Image

People streaming into Victoriei Square. The column stretches more than 1 kilometer behind them.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2017/01/ ... .html?_r=0
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


Interesting to know , wether Romanian people feel they better off now than they were under Nicolae Ceaușescu.

Am not sure

Was a good idea joining NATO ?

Corruption ? :lol:

Come on, this normal in that space

.
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Re: Romania

Post by noddy »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... a84c9f6753
Corruption now comes in two forms in Romania. There is the big kind that can still land an official in jail. Then there's the acceptable type that will bring nothing more than a knowing shrug.

The country's governing Social Democratic Party shocked domestic and international observers Tuesday when it adopted an emergency measure to decriminalize official misconduct causing damage worth less than about $48,000. Thousands of Romanians protested the decision, calling it a blow to recent progress in fighting chronic corruption in a European Union nation where accusations of bribe-taking, favor-trading and bureaucratic abuses are part of everyday life.
woot. thats a level of shameless my pollies arent *quite* capable of.. yet.
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Re: Romania

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Yep. They issued the two bills last evening, about 10 PM. A friend texted me a very pissed message. The social media caught fire immediately and about 15,000 came out, but the PSD leaders are too desperate for that. Dragnea himself was likely to end up behind bars. PNL and USR are trying to figure out if a mass resignation from Parliament could trigger early elections. We'll see what happens.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

Live stream from Victoriei Square. The well-lit building in the upper-right corner is the government headquarters.

https://www.facebook.com/TaNaNaNa.ro/vi ... 848771344/

More links:

http://www.digi24.ro/live/digi24
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
noddy
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Re: Romania

Post by noddy »

Image

its making the news in most places now, which Romania doent usually - reported as 300,000 protesters and the most since the fall of communism.

hopefully its a step too far on the shameless scale.
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Re: Romania

Post by Typhoon »

Wishing the protesters in Romania success.
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Re: Romania

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Thanks. Dragnea and the PSD leadership are scared, but not giving up.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Romania

Post by YMix »

noddy wrote:with a full disclaimer that judging books by their cover is wrong and childish and ermm yeh blah.

the guy actually looks like a lizard, im waiting for that tongue to flick out
Speaking of weird looking people, meet Ombudsman Victor Ciorbea.

Image
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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