France

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monster_gardener
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France

Post by monster_gardener »

Thread about France.

Always enjoy getting Alexis' perspective.............
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Merah the Very Model of Muslim Martyr/Murderer

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TOULOUSE, France — A self-proclaimed al-Qaeda militant died in a hail of bullets on Thursday as he jumped out of an apartment window at the end of a 32-hour siege in southern France.

Mohamed Merah, the main suspect in a wave of shootings that killed seven people, had tried to blast his way out of the siege in the city of Toulouse after members of an elite force known as RAID entered his flat.

But Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the 23-year-old had been found dead on the ground in a dramatic end to the lengthy standoff.

“The killer came out from the bathroom shooting very violently. The bursts of gunfire were frequent and hard,” Gueant said. “A RAID officer who is used to this kind of thing told me that he had never seen such a violent assault.

“RAID officers of course tried to protect themselves, to return fire, and then in the end, Mohamed Merah jumped out of the window with a gun in his hand, continuing to fire. He was found dead on the ground.”
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/22 ... f-bullets/

I despise Merah but he seems to have been a Model Muslim Martyr Murderer :twisted: .........*
Despite myself, I an Infidel, admire his end.........

AIUI France like US can be sometimes be somewhat successful at assimilation but remembering the car burnings in France not so long ago..........

Demon mentioned Low Intensity Conflict (LIC)

Ibrahim mentioned an Iraqi woman killed in El Cajon with a "Go Home" note left on her.........

Is there a way to LICk ;) this problem ........... without being a Dummy oops I mean Dhimmi :( or a Monster ;) :twisted: :(


*Hmmmmmmmmmmm Need to work on a Gibert and Sullivan** parody of that......

Mohammed Merah is the very Model of a Muslim Martyr/Murderer
Merah kills children, Few are dirtier
He jumps out a window, gun in hand
Merah will be the toast of Muslims throughout the land.
Salafis especially will think he's grand.
Because he kills infidels throughout the land.......


**zSGWoXDFM64
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Re: France

Post by Typhoon »

Vivre la France.

3_Iok5d4lbE
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Beautiful Musical Surreal........but what is she saying.....

Post by monster_gardener »

Typhoon wrote:Vivre la France.

3_Iok5d4lbE
Thank you Very Much for your post, Typhoon.

Very pretty and the voice is so smooth that it is almost music........

What is she saying though?

Unless that would ruin it...... ;)

The decor especially the reflections are a bit surreal.............

Maybe should be posted in Beautiful Women too............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_Theuriau
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Re: Merah the Very Model of Muslim Martyr/Murderer

Post by Alexis »

monster_gardener wrote:Always enjoy getting Alexis' perspective.............
Thanks, ye gardener of Monsters! :-D
monster_gardener wrote:I despise Merah but he seems to have been a Model Muslim Martyr Murderer :twisted: .........*
Despite myself, I an Infidel, admire his end.........
I think I understand what you're saying. Personally, I would admire such dedication even in the service of an evil cause... if the man had only attacked armed opponents. Purposeful killing of civilians, even worse of children, suppresses any admiration, because then I see in his dedication just an effect of his murderous rage, not of any true courage.

Re: "model Muslim martyr murderer", one of the comments to an article in French about Merah was by a Frenchman apparently of North African ancestry angry against what he called Middle-Eastern charlatans who were preaching such murderous attacks, which he insisted had nothing to do with the quiet piety he had seen in his grand-parents.

I can understand such anger at Wahhabi and other "charlatans".
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Re: France

Post by Alexis »

Typhoon wrote:Vivre la France.
This is a good play with words. :)

While "Vive la France" would be "long live France", "Vivre la France" means something like "living the experience of France". Which Melissa Theuriau can indeed advertise in an efficient way :D

Note that she is married with Jamel Debbouze, a French actor and humourist. Which is a useful counterpoint to the Toulouse killings: not all French of Muslim ancestry are on the same path as Merah.
(not only is Debbouze a good man, he probably is not a very convinced Muslim, seeing the first names of their children "Léon" and "Lila")
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Re: France

Post by Torchwood »

I think I would sacrifice faith for Madame Theuriau...

I note that Mademoiselle (Miss) has now been abolished for PC reasons, and that whatever their marital status ladies are to be addressed as Madame. As elsewhere, the French increasingly tend to cohabit rather than marry.

I wish English had something more pronounceable than "Ms"
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Miz Liza

Post by monster_gardener »

Torchwood wrote:I think I would sacrifice faith for Madame Theuriau...

I note that Mademoiselle (Miss) has now been abolished for PC reasons, and that whatever their marital status ladies are to be addressed as Madame. As elsewhere, the French increasingly tend to cohabit rather than marry.

I wish English had something more pronounceable than "Ms"
Thank you Very Much for your post, Torchwood.
I wish English had something more pronounceable than "Ms"
If you speak Southern :wink: it's easy: "Miz" as in "Miz Liza"
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Re: France

Post by Simple Minded »

Torchwood wrote: I wish English had something more pronounceable than "Ms"
Torchwood,

How bout Mister-ette?

someone has to start the newest trend.....
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Re: France

Post by noddy »

australia provides.. ms or mrs they are "the missus"
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Re: France

Post by Azrael »

Torchwood wrote:I think I would sacrifice faith for Madame Theuriau...

I note that Mademoiselle (Miss) has now been abolished for PC reasons, and that whatever their marital status ladies are to be addressed as Madame. As elsewhere, the French increasingly tend to cohabit rather than marry.
Marriage is, to some extent, a religious institution and the French tend not to be all that religious. However, French children are more likely than American children to be raised in a family with both of their biological parents.
I wish English had something more pronounceable than "Ms"
Over here it is pronounced "mIz" (rhymes with first syllable of "dizzy"). Is it pronounced differently on the other side of the pond?
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Re: France

Post by Torchwood »

Azrael wrote: Over here it is pronounced "mIz" (rhymes with first syllable of "dizzy"). Is it pronounced differently on the other side of the pond?
Nobody quite knows how to pronounce it, and it tends to come out as "Muz" which is decidedly inelegant. "Miz" is much better, especially as MG says, with a southern drawl: "Driving Ms Daisy" ?
Simple Minded

Re: France

Post by Simple Minded »

Torchwood wrote:
Azrael wrote: Over here it is pronounced "mIz" (rhymes with first syllable of "dizzy"). Is it pronounced differently on the other side of the pond?
Nobody quite knows how to pronounce it, and it tends to come out as "Muz" which is decidedly inelegant. "Miz" is much better, especially as MG says, with a southern drawl: "Driving Ms Daisy" ?
I know more than a few married guys who have settled on "she-who-must-be-obeyed..."
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Re: France

Post by Typhoon »

Alexis wrote:
Typhoon wrote:Vivre la France.
This is a good play with words. :)

While "Vive la France" would be "long live France", "Vivre la France" means something like "living the experience of France". Which Melissa Theuriau can indeed advertise in an efficient way :D
I wish I could say that this bon mot was due to my understanding of French, but alas it's limited to online [mis]translation.
Alexis wrote:Note that she is married with Jamel Debbouze, a French actor and humourist. Which is a useful counterpoint to the Toulouse killings: not all French of Muslim ancestry are on the same path as Merah.
(not only is Debbouze a good man, he probably is not a very convinced Muslim, seeing the first names of their children "Léon" and "Lila")
Most immigrants assimilate within several generations unless their religion/nationality/ethnicity/etc is targeted for some type of oppression.
In that case, they tend to cling to their old ways more even tightly than even their old country homeland.

Mohamed Merah was, by all accounts, a psychopath outlier.
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Re: France

Post by Azrael »

Torchwood wrote:
Azrael wrote: Over here it is pronounced "mIz" (rhymes with first syllable of "dizzy"). Is it pronounced differently on the other side of the pond?
Nobody quite knows how to pronounce it, and it tends to come out as "Muz" which is decidedly inelegant.
Muz like buzz? Horrid! Is that how y'all say it?
"Miz" is much better, especially as MG says, with a southern drawl: "Driving Ms Daisy" ?
That's pretty much how I say it.
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Re: France

Post by Azrael »

Typhoon wrote:
Alexis wrote:
Typhoon wrote:Vivre la France.
This is a good play with words. :)

While "Vive la France" would be "long live France", "Vivre la France" means something like "living the experience of France". Which Melissa Theuriau can indeed advertise in an efficient way :D
I wish I could say that this bon mot was due to my understanding of French, but alas it's limited to online [mis]translation.
You mistranslate very well.
Alexis wrote:Note that she is married with Jamel Debbouze, a French actor and humourist. Which is a useful counterpoint to the Toulouse killings: not all French of Muslim ancestry are on the same path as Merah.
(not only is Debbouze a good man, he probably is not a very convinced Muslim, seeing the first names of their children "Léon" and "Lila")
He is very lucky and she may be as well.
Most immigrants assimilate within several generations unless their religion/nationality/ethnicity/etc is targeted for some type of oppression.
Indeed. My dad grew up in Cuba and I'm a total gringo. The fact that papi is rubio (muy rubio, in fact) rather than moreno probably helps, though.
In that case, they tend to cling to their old ways more tightly than even their homeland.
Indeed.
Mohamed Merah was, by all accounts, a psychopath outlier.
Yes. In my limited experience, most Muslims in France are rather secular and relatively well integrated. It may help that many are Kabyle.
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Re: France

Post by Alexis »

Had missed that link, which is interesting regarding the directions of foreign policy in a post-Sarkozy France

Short decyphering: Montbrial is representative of French defense/foreign policy circles, and not especially audacious :-) ... for speaking like that, he has to feel he's "covered". Meaning his interventions to this Council are probably first signs of what would be foreign policy of a President Hollande.
"The world itself is fundamentally disorganized and we all seem to be moving toward chaos and anarchy.
New blocs are bound to emerge from our crisis in confidence about who we are.
(...)
We see fragmentation leading to anarchy.
"We believe the U.S. has made fundamental mistakes -- e.g., the financial management crisis of 2007, a fundamental flaw that was not taken seriously enough.
"There was also the big failure of Afghanistan. So was Iraq. We now live in fear of Israel bombing Iran's nuclear installations because we know the U.S. will be automatically involved, which makes the next phase unpredictable, except we know it will be a major setback for all of us."
(...)
"With President Hollande, I cannot see military interventions in a united front with President Obama and (British) Prime Minister (David) Cameron.
"Do we really want civil war in Syria? What would be our objective? Are we prepared to increase chaos everywhere? In Syria, we should be working with Russia and China to put an end to what could become a civil war.
(...)
"And understand that the Iranians are smarter than all of us. They're a genius at the diplomatic game. Very cruel. But I'm absolutely convinced they only want to reach the threshold of nuclear power, like the Japanese. The Iranian regime is very shaky. The leaders know that if they cross the barrier into military nuclear power, others in the region would follow. Not in their interest.
"During 40 years, the U.S. was consistent in its opposition to the Soviet Union, which was eventually defeated. It would behoove the U.S. to be smart and consistent over a long period of time, as it was during the Cold War."
What I found most notable I put in bold.
If this is a reflection of Hollande's thinking, France's foreign policy will evolve quite markedly in case he is elected.
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Re: France

Post by Azrael »

Very interesting. Thanks.

So the French defense/foreign policy establishment thinks that the U.S. should be more "smart and consistent over a long period of time". To what end? We don't have a USSR to counter long term. Al Qaeda doesn't have the power to replace them. Neither do "rogue nations". I don't understand what they want.

I don't think that they are suggesting a new cold war against China or Russia.
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Re: France

Post by Torchwood »

If the American Republican party hankers for 19C or even 17C values, then François Hollande is stuck in the left wing attitudes of the 1950s, or even the 30s.

As he is likely to be the next President, it should be interesting in all sorts of ways, not just in foreign policy. Poor relations with the USA and the UK is a minor issue compared to what it would do to relations with Germany. Angela has pointedly snubbed him to date.

I would willingly listen to the left if they had better answers to this economic mess than the clearly inadequate ones of the right- but they don't.
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Re: France

Post by Typhoon »

Torchwood wrote:If the American Republican party hankers for 19C or even 17C values, then François Hollande is stuck in the left wing attitudes of the 1950s, or even the 30s.

As he is likely to be the next President, it should be interesting in all sorts of ways, not just in foreign policy. Poor relations with the USA and the UK is a minor issue compared to what it would do to relations with Germany. Angela has pointedly snubbed him to date.

I would willingly listen to the left if they had better answers to this economic mess than the clearly inadequate ones of the right- but they don't.
Quite.

I'm reminded of Keynes keen observation that
The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood.
Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.
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Re: France

Post by Juggernaut Nihilism »

Torchwood wrote:I think I would sacrifice faith for Madame Theuriau...

I note that Mademoiselle (Miss) has now been abolished for PC reasons, and that whatever their marital status ladies are to be addressed as Madame. As elsewhere, the French increasingly tend to cohabit rather than marry.

I wish English had something more pronounceable than "Ms"
I wish English had a word for "unmarried woman" that hadn't been co-opted by man-hating feminists and given a connotation that exclaimed "angry bitch angry bitch angry bitch!!!"
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Re: France

Post by Alexis »

Azrael wrote:So the French defense/foreign policy establishment thinks that the U.S. should be more "smart and consistent over a long period of time". To what end? We don't have a USSR to counter long term.
I'm pretty sure neither Montbrial nor Hollande think the US should have a cold war against anybody.

I think the "smart and consistent over a long period of time" part is merely a polite way of suggesting to stop what they - rightly or wrongly - view as a succession of "fundamental mistakes" and "big failures": basically to calm down and avoid worsening the risks of our time.

It's quite impressive how often words like "chaos", "anarchy", "disorganized" and "fragmentation" were cited for describing the state of the World. These are people who think they're looking at a fragile world and want to apply Hippocrates' basic principle for physicians: Primum non nocere, that is: First, do not harm.
Torchwoodl wrote:As he is likely to be the next President, it should be interesting in all sorts of ways, not just in foreign policy. Poor relations with the USA and the UK is a minor issue compared to what it would do to relations with Germany. Angela has pointedly snubbed him to date.

I would willingly listen to the left if they had better answers to this economic mess than the clearly inadequate ones of the right- but they don't.
If Montbrial's remarks are indicative of Hollande's thinking as I believe, and if Hollande is elected, no worsening of relations with USA nor UK should be caused by France. "I cannot see military interventions in a united front with President Obama and (British) Prime Minister (David) Cameron" means reserve regarding new military activism, should those countries decide it (Syria, Iran...), which neither an American nor a British government are forced to understand as offensive.

"Working with Russia and China" to prevent or contain a civil war in Syria is a will to ameliorate relations with those two countries. Again, nothing here is directed against US nor UK... no matter what Mitt "Russia is No 1 foe" Romney would think :lol:

Regarding relations with Germany, as well as economic policy, the main point about Hollande is that he's mostly on Sarkozy's line, he is not ready to change the basic European / economic strategy which both largest Left and largest Right party in France have applied for more than 20 years: unitary currency (euro), unlimited drive towards free trade, support for banks (private losses being put on taxpayer' responsibilities), laws and rules decided more and more by Brussels civil servants rather than by national Parliaments.
Outside of that consensus are standing only the national Right (Le Pen, polling at 16%, promising to struggle against "the law of the gangs and the law of the banks") and the "real" Left (Mélenchon, 14%, denouncing "the abject Troika (EU+ECB+IMF)"), neither of whom can realistically hope to win the election this year.

The two only serious changes Hollande proposes are:
1. Separation between commercial banks and securities firms, akin to the US 1933 Glass-Steagall act(later repelled under Bill Clinton)
2. A "growth initiative" at European level, for which he looks ready to "discuss" with Germany's Merkel.

Assuming that Hollande is serious (and not merely trying to win votes...), No 2 will result in discussions with Merkel indeed. It's also probably why Merkel snubbed him (which by the way probably help him with French people ;) ), to which Hollande answered that German elections are planned 2013 and that SDP politicians are much more open to a "growth initiative" than Frau Merkel :mrgreen:

Of course Germany is not the only partner of France in the eurozone, Italy's Monti and Spain's Rajoy would probably be amenable to such an initiative, even not waiting for German elections. Depression in one's country is a powerful argument. Sarkozy has been quite a follower (some would say subservient) of Merkel's lead, Hollande is poised to be more "Latin oriented", no matter whether a true Latin bloc within the EU is a result (I'm not sure), or not.

All of this... assuming that Hollande is more serious and has more spine than Sarkozy, obviously :?:
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Re: France

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.


The Independent : Toulouse killer a police informant

.
Media reports point to close relationship with French security service despite official denial
.

That is why shot to the head .. to silence him .. they did not want he singing

.
The head of the French internal security service has denied suggestions that authorities "missed" the Toulouse gunman because he was a police informer. Bernard Squarcini took the unusual step of intervening personally to quash speculation that Mohamed Merah was an indic or "snout" for one of his own agents in Toulouse.

Paradoxically, however, the allegations, including stories in the Italian and French regional press, began with a remark by Mr Squarcini himself. The speculation has since been amplified following comments by a retired head of one of the two French security services merged under Mr Squarcini's control four years ago.

Last Friday, the day after Merah, 23, was shot while resisting arrest, Mr Squarcini told Le Monde that the killer had asked, during his 32-hour siege, to speak to a Toulouse-based officer in his agency, the Direction Centrale du Renseignement Intérieur (DCRI). It was this agent – understood to be a young woman of North African origin – who had interrogated Merah when he returned from a two-month visit to Pakistan in November last year.

The DCRI chief told Le Monde newspaper that Merah shocked the agent by saying: "Actually, I was meaning [before the siege] to call to say I had some tip-offs for you. But, actually, I was going to bump you off." In French, he used the word fumer, which means "to smoke" but in slang translates to "murder" or "waste". He also used tu, the familiar word for "you".

In other words, Merah appeared to have a friendly relationship with the agent and intended to lure her into an ambush by pretending to have information about radical Islamist activities in Toulouse. French newspapers have pointed out that even low-level "informant" status for Merah could explain why he passed under the radar of the police and security services.

In an interview this week with the Toulouse paper La Dépêche du Midi, a former security chief, Yves Bonnet, said it was "striking" that Merah seemed to have a DCRI "handler". "Having a handler, that is not an innocent thing," he said. "I don't know how far his relationship, or collaboration, with the service went but it is a question worth raising."

Mr Bonnet was head of the counter-espionage service, the Direction de la Surveillance du Territoire (DST), from 1982 to 1985. This was one of the two agencies merged by President Nicolas Sarkozy in 2008 to form the DCRI. The merger generated much jealousy and anger. Government sources suggest that this could to explain Mr Bonnet's "unhelpful" remarks. This week, an Italian paper, Il Foglio, citing "intelligence sources", said Merah travelled to Israel in September 2010 using cover provided by the French external espionage service, the Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure(DGSE). A spokesman for the DGSE, the French equivalent of MI6, dismissed the report as "grotesque". Mr Squarcini has said Merah was never an informer for any French security agency.

Le Canard Enchaîné newspaper reported yesterday that Merah and his family were bugged by the DCRI from March to November last year. The bugging ended abruptly, Le Canard said, at about the time of the future killer's meeting with the DCRI agent in November.
.



He was probably an undercover agent



.
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Re: France

Post by Azrael »

Torchwood wrote:If the American Republican party hankers for 19C or even 17C values, then François Hollande is stuck in the left wing attitudes of the 1950s, or even the 30s.
Would you call him a Bennite? I've heard that he really isn't all that left wing; that he's one of the more moderate members of his party.
As he is likely to be the next President,
Recent polls suggest it could be close.
it should be interesting in all sorts of ways, not just in foreign policy. Poor relations with the USA and the UK is a minor issue compared to what it would do to relations with Germany. Angela has pointedly snubbed him to date.
Not a smart move. Perhaps she is afraid of offending Sarkozy.
I would willingly listen to the left if they had better answers to this economic mess than the clearly inadequate ones of the right- but they don't.
I know what you mean.
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Re: France

Post by Azrael »

AzariLoveIran wrote:.


The Independent : Toulouse killer a police informant

.
Media reports point to close relationship with French security service despite official denial
.

That is why shot to the head .. to silence him .. they did not want he singing

.
The head of the French internal security service has denied suggestions that authorities "missed" the Toulouse gunman because he was a police informer. Bernard Squarcini took the unusual step of intervening personally to quash speculation that Mohamed Merah was an indic or "snout" for one of his own agents in Toulouse.

Paradoxically, however, the allegations, including stories in the Italian and French regional press, began with a remark by Mr Squarcini himself. The speculation has since been amplified following comments by a retired head of one of the two French security services merged under Mr Squarcini's control four years ago.

Last Friday, the day after Merah, 23, was shot while resisting arrest, Mr Squarcini told Le Monde that the killer had asked, during his 32-hour siege, to speak to a Toulouse-based officer in his agency, the Direction Centrale du Renseignement Intérieur (DCRI). It was this agent – understood to be a young woman of North African origin – who had interrogated Merah when he returned from a two-month visit to Pakistan in November last year.

The DCRI chief told Le Monde newspaper that Merah shocked the agent by saying: "Actually, I was meaning [before the siege] to call to say I had some tip-offs for you. But, actually, I was going to bump you off." In French, he used the word fumer, which means "to smoke" but in slang translates to "murder" or "waste". He also used tu, the familiar word for "you".

In other words, Merah appeared to have a friendly relationship with the agent and intended to lure her into an ambush by pretending to have information about radical Islamist activities in Toulouse. French newspapers have pointed out that even low-level "informant" status for Merah could explain why he passed under the radar of the police and security services.

In an interview this week with the Toulouse paper La Dépêche du Midi, a former security chief, Yves Bonnet, said it was "striking" that Merah seemed to have a DCRI "handler". "Having a handler, that is not an innocent thing," he said. "I don't know how far his relationship, or collaboration, with the service went but it is a question worth raising."

Mr Bonnet was head of the counter-espionage service, the Direction de la Surveillance du Territoire (DST), from 1982 to 1985. This was one of the two agencies merged by President Nicolas Sarkozy in 2008 to form the DCRI. The merger generated much jealousy and anger. Government sources suggest that this could to explain Mr Bonnet's "unhelpful" remarks. This week, an Italian paper, Il Foglio, citing "intelligence sources", said Merah travelled to Israel in September 2010 using cover provided by the French external espionage service, the Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure(DGSE). A spokesman for the DGSE, the French equivalent of MI6, dismissed the report as "grotesque". Mr Squarcini has said Merah was never an informer for any French security agency.

Le Canard Enchaîné newspaper reported yesterday that Merah and his family were bugged by the DCRI from March to November last year. The bugging ended abruptly, Le Canard said, at about the time of the future killer's meeting with the DCRI agent in November.
.



He was probably an undercover agent.
You're probably right. And if you are, I'm afraid that wouldn't surprise me at all.

One example: the infamous Whitey Bulger was a FBI informant for decades. They let him do what he wanted, until the media caught on and he became too much of an embarrassment for them. Eventually he was indicted for 19 murders, which was probably just the tip of the iceberg.
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