Latin America

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Endovelico
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Re: Cuban Socialist Slave Labor Medical System......

Post by Endovelico »

monster_gardener wrote:
According to Luis Zuñiga, director of human rights for the Cuban American National Foundation, Cuban doctors are "slave workers" who labor for meager wages while bolstering Cuba's image as a donor nation and "the Cuban government exports these doctors as merchandise".
If that's the case, why don't Cuban doctors run away when they are serving abroad? There are thousands of Cuban doctors in Venezuela and only a dozen or so have gone AWOL... Besides being slaves they must certainly also be stupid, one must conclude...
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Doc
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Re: Cuban Socialist Slave Labor Medical System......

Post by Doc »

Endovelico wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
According to Luis Zuñiga, director of human rights for the Cuban American National Foundation, Cuban doctors are "slave workers" who labor for meager wages while bolstering Cuba's image as a donor nation and "the Cuban government exports these doctors as merchandise".
If that's the case, why don't Cuban doctors run away when they are serving abroad? There are thousands of Cuban doctors in Venezuela and only a dozen or so have gone AWOL... Besides being slaves they must certainly also be stupid, one must conclude...
So what happens to their families back in Cuba when they go AWOL?
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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monster_gardener
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Agreement on Chavez as Garbage.......

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Census Figures Show Reduction in Poverty in Venezuela over Last Decade
Jan 25th 2013, by Paul Dobson - Correo del Orinoco International
In spite of these successes no doubt people will continue accusing Chavez of all sorts of horrible things.

. . .
Well, we can at least rest assured that Venezuelan govt back newspapers, such as Correo del Orinoco, will not do so.
If the census figures were given by another newspaper, less favourable to Chavez, would those figures be different or their interpretation be negative?... Has the lowering of poverty anything to do with the paper which reports it?...

http://www.correodelorinoco.gob.ve/leer ... 2013-01-25
Chavez is garbage, another wasted opportunity.

Morales is a better guy to champion in the region.
Thank You VERY MUCH For Your Post, Ibrahim.
Chavez is garbage,
WOW!

We agree!........

But to give credit when credit is due......

Seconded!

I like to characterize Chavez as a Fat Klown............ A Dangerous Fat Klown.......

But your definition may soon be better than mine........ ;) :twisted: .....

Garbage........ Plant Food.........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
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monster_gardener
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Runaways from Cuban Socialist Slave Labor Medical System....

Post by monster_gardener »

Endovelico wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
According to Luis Zuñiga, director of human rights for the Cuban American National Foundation, Cuban doctors are "slave workers" who labor for meager wages while bolstering Cuba's image as a donor nation and "the Cuban government exports these doctors as merchandise".
If that's the case, why don't Cuban doctors run away when they are serving abroad? There are thousands of Cuban doctors in Venezuela and only a dozen or so have gone AWOL... Besides being slaves they must certainly also be stupid, one must conclude...
Thank you Very MUCH for your reply, Endovelico.

Some do run away when serving abroad........

Sometimes they get caught and sent back......... :shock: :o

Sometimes it is not easy to runaway when you have an overseer watching you..........

And as Doc commented, they have to worry about reprisals against their families back in Cuba........
In 2000, two Cuban doctors working in Zimbabwe attempted to defect to Canada.[31] They were prevented from doing so by two Zimbabwean soldiers, who handed them over to Cuban officials.[32] United Nations officials said Zimbabwe appeared to have violated national and international laws.[32]

In August 2006 the United States under George W. Bush created the Cuban Medical Professional Parole program,[33] specifically targeting Cuban medical personnel and encouraging them to defect when they are working in a country outside of Cuba.[6] Of an estimated 40,000 eligible medical personnel, over 1000 had entered the United States under the program by October 2007, according to the chief of staff for U.S. Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart.[34] However the promised fast-track visa is not always forthcoming, and some applicants are trapped in limbo, unable to enter the US and unable to return to Cuba.[35]

According to a 2007 paper published in The Lancet medical journal, "growing numbers of Cuban doctors sent overseas to work are defecting to the USA", some via Colombia, where they have sought temporary asylum.[36] In February 2007, at least 38 doctors were requesting asylum in the US embassy in Bogotá after asylum was denied by the Colombian government.[37] Cuban doctors working abroad are reported to be monitored by "minders" and subject to curfew.[36]

Two defected Cuban doctors working in Venezuela have asserted that they were told their job was to keep Chavez in power,[38] by asking patients to vote for Chávez in the 2004 recall referendum.[38] Opposition supporters in Venezuela have called Cuban doctors "Fidel's ambassadors" and refused to go to their clinics.[38]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medi ... ts_on_Cuba
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
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Endovelico
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Re: Cuban Socialist Slave Labor Medical System......

Post by Endovelico »

Doc wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
According to Luis Zuñiga, director of human rights for the Cuban American National Foundation, Cuban doctors are "slave workers" who labor for meager wages while bolstering Cuba's image as a donor nation and "the Cuban government exports these doctors as merchandise".
If that's the case, why don't Cuban doctors run away when they are serving abroad? There are thousands of Cuban doctors in Venezuela and only a dozen or so have gone AWOL... Besides being slaves they must certainly also be stupid, one must conclude...
So what happens to their families back in Cuba when they go AWOL?
With so many thousand Cuban doctors working abroad, the family argument can't account for the relatively few deserters. Even the 1,000 doctors who escaped to the US which MG mentioned above, were only 2.5% of the total number of Cuban doctors abroad. One could say that for a majority of them they must enjoy the work they do, and they must have some appreciation for their country, even under the Castro regime.
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monster_gardener
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Re: Cuban Socialist Slave Labor Medical System......

Post by monster_gardener »

Endovelico wrote:
Doc wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
According to Luis Zuñiga, director of human rights for the Cuban American National Foundation, Cuban doctors are "slave workers" who labor for meager wages while bolstering Cuba's image as a donor nation and "the Cuban government exports these doctors as merchandise".
If that's the case, why don't Cuban doctors run away when they are serving abroad? There are thousands of Cuban doctors in Venezuela and only a dozen or so have gone AWOL... Besides being slaves they must certainly also be stupid, one must conclude...
So what happens to their families back in Cuba when they go AWOL?
With so many thousand Cuban doctors working abroad, the family argument can't account for the relatively few deserters. Even the 1,000 doctors who escaped to the US which MG mentioned above, were only 2.5% of the total number of Cuban doctors abroad. One could say that for a majority of them they must enjoy the work they do, and they must have some appreciation for their country, even under the Castro regime.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Endovelico.
One could say that for a majority of them they must enjoy the work they do, and they must have some appreciation for their country, even under the Castro regime.
IMVHO not so.......

How do you know this?

Have you interviewed any Cuban doctors involved in this program?

Especially without a Monitor present....... Or knowing that the doctor was being questioned.......

If so, how many........

Or do you have a link to data from someone who has supporting your contentions.........


Again..... Escape can be difficult when you have overseers watching you and hostages at home......

And Communist Socialist states are notorious for this problem........This is Standard Operating Conditions.......

Remember what people used to do to escape from East Germany?.........

And still do to escape the remaining Communist/Bolshevik/Socialist states of which Cuba is unfortunately still one.......

They too often die trying..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
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Endovelico
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Re: Latin America

Post by Endovelico »

I have done some online research on the subject of Cuban doctors abroad and I must confess that the picture I got is somewhat less rosy than I had figured at first. Good work is being done but Cuban doctors are not all as altruistic as some people claim. Earning more and having a chance to escape to countries where there skills will be much better rewarded are reasons why some of them volunteer. But there are also the idealists among them. As to the numbers of those fleeing to the US, these are the figures I got from the WSJ:

Image

A not unbiased article which may however give a better idea of how Cuban doctors function in Venezuela:

http://www.themilitant.com/2003/6738/673802.html
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monster_gardener
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Thank you for your Honesty.........

Post by monster_gardener »

Endovelico wrote:I have done some online research on the subject of Cuban doctors abroad and I must confess that the picture I got is somewhat less rosy than I had figured at first. Good work is being done but Cuban doctors are not all as altruistic as some people claim. Earning more and having a chance to escape to countries where there skills will be much better rewarded are reasons why some of them volunteer. But there are also the idealists among them. As to the numbers of those fleeing to the US, these are the figures I got from the WSJ:

Image

A not unbiased article which may however give a better idea of how Cuban doctors function in Venezuela:

http://www.themilitant.com/2003/6738/673802.html
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Endovelico.

And Thank You EVEN MORE for your honesty.

Thank You also for the link.

Best Regards,
Your Monstrous ;) Friend,
MG
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Latin America

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e=homepage

China’s foreign minister went on the geopolitical offensive in Latin America last week, promoting his country’s proposed “Global Security Initiative” in the US’ backyard as Washington sought to shore up ties in Asia.

In phone calls with his counterparts from Uruguay, Nicaragua and Ecuador, Wang Yi said China opposed efforts by “some countries” to use ideology to divide the international community and it had no geopolitical considerations when working with Latin America.
Chinese President Xi Jinping first touted the initiative at the annual Boao Forum for Asia in April, calling for cooperation and respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference with the internal politics of other countries.


Question is, are Asian countries more tyronized by China, or Latin America more tyronized by America ? :D



Among Friends.jpeg
Among Friends.jpeg (173.06 KiB) Viewed 3219 times


Augusto Pinochet, here we come :lol:

Poor Salvador Allende


Any such episode in Asia with China ? not aware of any
.
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Doc
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Re: Latin America

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:55 pm .

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e=homepage

China’s foreign minister went on the geopolitical offensive in Latin America last week, promoting his country’s proposed “Global Security Initiative” in the US’ backyard as Washington sought to shore up ties in Asia.

In phone calls with his counterparts from Uruguay, Nicaragua and Ecuador, Wang Yi said China opposed efforts by “some countries” to use ideology to divide the international community and it had no geopolitical considerations when working with Latin America.
Chinese President Xi Jinping first touted the initiative at the annual Boao Forum for Asia in April, calling for cooperation and respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference with the internal politics of other countries.


Question is, are Asian countries more tyronized by China, or Latin America more tyronized by America ? :D




Among Friends.jpeg



Augusto Pinochet, here we come :lol:

Poor Salvador Allende


Any such episode in Asia with China ? not aware of any
.
Years ago I used to hang out on occasion with Allende supporter and Chile refugees in Canada. An interesting bunch of people.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Latin America

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:40 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:55 pm .

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e=homepage

China’s foreign minister went on the geopolitical offensive in Latin America last week, promoting his country’s proposed “Global Security Initiative” in the US’ backyard as Washington sought to shore up ties in Asia.

In phone calls with his counterparts from Uruguay, Nicaragua and Ecuador, Wang Yi said China opposed efforts by “some countries” to use ideology to divide the international community and it had no geopolitical considerations when working with Latin America.
Chinese President Xi Jinping first touted the initiative at the annual Boao Forum for Asia in April, calling for cooperation and respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference with the internal politics of other countries.


Question is, are Asian countries more tyronized by China, or Latin America more tyronized by America ? :D




Among Friends.jpeg



Augusto Pinochet, here we come :lol:

Poor Salvador Allende


Any such episode in Asia with China ? not aware of any
.

Years ago I used to hang out on occasion with Allende supporter and Chile refugees in Canada. An interesting bunch of people.


.


Don't know any Allende supporter, not so I dislike Pinochet :lol:
.
User avatar
Doc
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: Latin America

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:36 am
Doc wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:40 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:55 pm .

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e=homepage

China’s foreign minister went on the geopolitical offensive in Latin America last week, promoting his country’s proposed “Global Security Initiative” in the US’ backyard as Washington sought to shore up ties in Asia.

In phone calls with his counterparts from Uruguay, Nicaragua and Ecuador, Wang Yi said China opposed efforts by “some countries” to use ideology to divide the international community and it had no geopolitical considerations when working with Latin America.
Chinese President Xi Jinping first touted the initiative at the annual Boao Forum for Asia in April, calling for cooperation and respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference with the internal politics of other countries.


Question is, are Asian countries more tyronized by China, or Latin America more tyronized by America ? :D




Among Friends.jpeg



Augusto Pinochet, here we come :lol:

Poor Salvador Allende


Any such episode in Asia with China ? not aware of any
.

Years ago I used to hang out on occasion with Allende supporter and Chile refugees in Canada. An interesting bunch of people.


.


Don't know any Allende supporter, not so I dislike Pinochet :lol:
.
The deal in Chile kind of reminds me of what happen the Bani Sadr and several other members of the Iran revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolhassan_Banisadr
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: Latin America

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:29 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:36 am
Doc wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:40 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:55 pm .

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e=homepage

China’s foreign minister went on the geopolitical offensive in Latin America last week, promoting his country’s proposed “Global Security Initiative” in the US’ backyard as Washington sought to shore up ties in Asia.

In phone calls with his counterparts from Uruguay, Nicaragua and Ecuador, Wang Yi said China opposed efforts by “some countries” to use ideology to divide the international community and it had no geopolitical considerations when working with Latin America.
Chinese President Xi Jinping first touted the initiative at the annual Boao Forum for Asia in April, calling for cooperation and respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference with the internal politics of other countries.


Question is, are Asian countries more tyronized by China, or Latin America more tyronized by America ? :D




Among Friends.jpeg



Augusto Pinochet, here we come :lol:

Poor Salvador Allende


Any such episode in Asia with China ? not aware of any
.

Years ago I used to hang out on occasion with Allende supporter and Chile refugees in Canada. An interesting bunch of people.


.


Don't know any Allende supporter, not so I dislike Pinochet :lol:
.

The deal in Chile kind of reminds me of what happen the Bani Sadr and several other members of the Iran revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolhassan_Banisadr.

.


Bani Sadr story not what you read in WiKi .. totally different story
.
User avatar
Doc
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Re: Latin America

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:36 am
Doc wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:29 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:36 am
Doc wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:40 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:55 pm .

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e=homepage

China’s foreign minister went on the geopolitical offensive in Latin America last week, promoting his country’s proposed “Global Security Initiative” in the US’ backyard as Washington sought to shore up ties in Asia.

In phone calls with his counterparts from Uruguay, Nicaragua and Ecuador, Wang Yi said China opposed efforts by “some countries” to use ideology to divide the international community and it had no geopolitical considerations when working with Latin America.
Chinese President Xi Jinping first touted the initiative at the annual Boao Forum for Asia in April, calling for cooperation and respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference with the internal politics of other countries.


Question is, are Asian countries more tyronized by China, or Latin America more tyronized by America ? :D




Among Friends.jpeg



Augusto Pinochet, here we come :lol:

Poor Salvador Allende


Any such episode in Asia with China ? not aware of any
.

Years ago I used to hang out on occasion with Allende supporter and Chile refugees in Canada. An interesting bunch of people.


.


Don't know any Allende supporter, not so I dislike Pinochet :lol:
.

The deal in Chile kind of reminds me of what happen the Bani Sadr and several other members of the Iran revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolhassan_Banisadr.

.


Bani Sadr story not what you read in WiKi .. totally different story
.
he had to leave the country he was born in. Others were murdered by the revolutionary state.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: Latin America

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:51 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:36 am
Doc wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:29 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:36 am
Doc wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:40 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:55 pm .

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e=homepage






Question is, are Asian countries more tyronized by China, or Latin America more tyronized by America ? :D




Among Friends.jpeg



Augusto Pinochet, here we come :lol:

Poor Salvador Allende


Any such episode in Asia with China ? not aware of any
.

Years ago I used to hang out on occasion with Allende supporter and Chile refugees in Canada. An interesting bunch of people.


.


Don't know any Allende supporter, not so I dislike Pinochet :lol:
.

The deal in Chile kind of reminds me of what happen the Bani Sadr and several other members of the Iran revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolhassan_Banisadr.

.


Bani Sadr story not what you read in WiKi .. totally different story
.

he had to leave the country he was born in. Others were murdered by the revolutionary state.

.


In Russian communist revolution, there were 2 factions .. Stalin and Trotsky faction .. Stalin wanted to built up Communist Russia, Trotsky wanted a continuation of communist revolution into the world.

Stalin won



In Iranian revolution similar things happened


A faction (who were pretty much all "Western Agents") including Bani Sadr and others, wanted to "cap" things to Iran

Another faction planned to change the world (idea being oppressed beat the oppressors) , present Khamnei

Well , in Iran case , Khamnei faction won. :lol:


All we see now is the result of Iranian revolution .. Iranian revolution showed that the "the Emperor has no clothes"

Iranian revolution will change the world, already in process
.
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Doc
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: Latin America

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:28 am
Doc wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:51 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:36 am
Doc wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:29 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:36 am
Doc wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:40 am


Years ago I used to hang out on occasion with Allende supporter and Chile refugees in Canada. An interesting bunch of people.


.


Don't know any Allende supporter, not so I dislike Pinochet :lol:
.

The deal in Chile kind of reminds me of what happen the Bani Sadr and several other members of the Iran revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolhassan_Banisadr.

.


Bani Sadr story not what you read in WiKi .. totally different story
.

he had to leave the country he was born in. Others were murdered by the revolutionary state.

.


In Russian communist revolution, there were 2 factions .. Stalin and Trotsky faction .. Stalin wanted to built up Communist Russia, Trotsky wanted a continuation of communist revolution into the world.

Stalin won



In Iranian revolution similar things happened


A faction (who were pretty much all "Western Agents") including Bani Sadr and others, wanted to "cap" things to Iran

Another faction planned to change the world (idea being oppressed beat the oppressors) , present Khamnei

Well , in Iran case , Khamnei faction won. :lol:


All we see now is the result of Iranian revolution .. Iranian revolution showed that the "the Emperor has no clothes"

Iranian revolution will change the world, already in process
.
The Iranian revolution is and was a waste of life.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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