Alien Invasion imminent...US and Chinese joint Naval ops

[Enki]

Did you see and enjoy the film Starship Troopers?

Hey any species that can fart and knock asteroids out of orbit in order to smash them into another planet on the other side of the galaxy is going to kick our asses.

[Skin Job]

The most depressing hypothesis I've read is that much of space is sterilized by gamma ray bursts.

There is a definite advantage to living in the galactic "boonies." The galactic center, though beautiful, is inimical to life just by virtue of the concentration of stellar activity.

BTW, the movie "Starship Troopers" is a terrible affront to Heinlein. To anyone who has not read the book, please do not let the movie deter you from doing so, they are nothing alike.

[Typhoon]

The most depressing hypothesis I've read is that much of space is sterilized by gamma ray bursts.

There is a definite advantage to living in the galactic "boonies." The galactic center, though beautiful, is inimical to life just by virtue of the concentration of stellar activity.

. . .

Not to mention that massive black hole at the galactic centre

[monster_gardener]

I think that the reason we haven't encountered any galactically-mobile intelligent life is simple. Life simply doesn't last that long once it acquires a high enough level of technology to kill itself off. I mean we've been sending radio waves into the atmosphere for less than a century, meaning our earliest signals are only around the block, astronomically speaking, and we've already almost destroyed ourselves a dozen times.

Oh?

Does anyone really think we're gonna last another 250 years at the rate we're going?

Given the track record of doomsday predictions over the last several millennia, I think that our species will be around for far far longer than that.

When every African backwater has a stockpile of nuclear and biological weapons, and ocean acidity has killed off 90% of the algae? Nigerian please.

MAD has kept the major powers from going to war since WWII.

Biological weapons are ineffective except against isolated populations with no history of exposure.

What is your evidence that ocean acidity is killing off algae?

What is with the ongoing disparagement of Africa?

There have probably been countless tries at intelligent life, but every time they reach the same basic discoveries of the powered machine, the manipulation of the genome, and splitting the atom, they shortly get about the business of wiping themselves out loooong before they ever get to the point of inventing warp drives.

Or the distances to be covered are simply too vast.

Voyager is finally coming close to leaving the solar system - 35 years afters launch.

The most depressing hypothesis I've read is that much of space is sterilized by gamma ray bursts.

And if there is a form of life out there that simply doesn't have the same impulses to violence and malice that we enjoy, then I say bring em on because I have no doubt we'll send their candy asses packing back to whatever soft star system they pranced out of.

Did you see and enjoy the film Starship Troopers?

Thank You Very Much for your Posts, Juggernaut and Typhoon.

Given the track record of doomsday predictions over the last several millennia, I think that our species will be around for far far longer than that.

I hope, pray and lobby that you are correct, Typhoon

IMVHO the survival test for us Killer Apes is probably whether we get space colonies and maybe undersea colonies going....... Get off Earth or maybe Under the Sea and the odds of survival from ourselves, killer space rocks and gamma ray bursts goes up.....

The major Ordovician-Silurian extinction event of 450 million years ago may have been caused by a GRB. The late Ordovician species of trilobite that spent some of its life in the plankton layer near the ocean surface was much harder hit than deep-water dwellers, which tended to stay put within quite restricted areas. Usually it is the more widely spread species that fare better in extinction, and hence this unusual pattern could be explained by a GRB, which would probably devastate creatures living on land and near the ocean surface, but leave deep-sea creatures relatively unharmed.[91

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_ ... n_the_past

I mean we've been sending radio waves into the atmosphere for less than a century, meaning our earliest signals are only around the block, astronomically speaking, and we've already almost destroyed ourselves a dozen times.

I remember reading/hearing that non directional broadcast signal degrade to the point that they would be undetectable well before reaching the nearest stars... IIRC ~ 1 light year max....... AIUI as opposed to deliberately beaming radio signals somewhere.......

MAD has kept the major powers from going to war since WWII.

True but there have been some VERY close calls....... even with Uz versus the relatively rational atheistic Soviets who loved their children but had no hope of an afterlife....

On September 26, 1983 he was the duty officer at the command center for the Oko nuclear early warning system when the system reported a missile being launched from the United States. Petrov judged that the report was a false alarm.[1] This decision may have prevented an erroneous retaliatory nuclear attack on the United States and its Western allies. Investigation later confirmed that the satellite warning system had malfunctioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

During the Cuban Missile Crisis he prevented the launch of a nuclear torpedo and therefore a possible nuclear war. His story is to this day unknown to the wider public, although some believe that, as Thomas Blanton (then director of the National Security Archive) expressed it in 2002, "a guy called Vasili Arkhipov saved the world."[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasiliy_Arkhipov

Red Heifer Christians vs. MADhi Muslims sounds even more dicey...........

Some Fundamentalist Christians believe that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ cannot occur until the Third Temple is constructed in Jerusalem, which requires the appearance of a red heifer born in Israel. Clyde Lott, a cattle breeder in O'Neill, Nebraska, United States, is attempting to systematically breed red heifers and export them to Israel to establish a breeding line of red heifers in Israel in the hope that this will bring about the construction of the Third Temple and ultimately the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.[7][8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heifer#Christians

In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi (Arabic: مهدي‎ / ISO 233: mahdī / English: Guided One) is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will rule for seven, nine or nineteen years- (according to various interpretations)[1] before the Day of Judgment (yawm al-qiyamah / literally, the Day of Resurrection)[2] and will rid the world of wrongdoing, injustice and tyranny.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi

Yeah..... Sure........ Right....... Right after 2/3 of the world dies........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi#Portents

and

The Shiite Muslim President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, is deeply committed to the Islamic Messiah, al Mahdi. There have been many through the years claiming to be the Hidden Imam but Ahmadinejad believes he is yet to come. He claims that he is to personally prepare the world for the coming Mahdi. In order to save the world, it must be in a state of chaos and subjugation. Ahmadinejad claims he was “directed by Allah to pave the way for the glorious appearance of the Mahdi”.

http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/12th-imam.htm

Reminds me of that post here about the French being startled about Bush II declaiming about Gog and Magog.......

Woe to those be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim or otherwise who long for the Day of the Lord...For the Day of the Lord is likely to be Darkness after a Blinding Light and worse...

What is with the ongoing disparagement of Africa?

AIUI some places in Africa, especially those with the misfortune to have oil are a mess......

But OTOH a lot of Africa is in the South Hemisphere and may have more of a chance of survival if the Northern Hemisphere goes Nuke..........

mugcw3aJqp8


jgA2xo0HYrE

[Typhoon]

Humanity has always had more than its' fair share of looney tunes.

However, what rulers want to do, no matter how crazy their pronouncements, is to rule and to send others to fight and die for their interests.

MAD makes the rulers one of the first key targets and would leave them with nothing left to rule.

[Enki]

Humanity has always had more than its' fair share of looney tunes.

However, what rulers want to do, no matter how crazy their pronouncements, is to rule and to send others to fight and die for their interests.

MAD makes the rulers one of the first key targets and would leave them with nothing left to rule.

I think the fear is a suicide bomber with a nuke.

[monster_gardener]

Humanity has always had more than its' fair share of looney tunes.

However, what rulers want to do, no matter how crazy their pronouncements, is to rule and to send others to fight and die for their interests.

MAD makes the rulers one of the first key targets and would leave them with nothing left to rule.

I think the fear is a suicide bomber with a nuke.

Thank you VERY much for your post, Typhoon and Tinker.

I think the fear is a suicide bomber with a nuke.

Or an Evil Head of State on the losing side of a war where he or she knows that SadDam Hussein's fate awaits....

One version of which might be Hitler in the Fuhrer Bunker with a nuke as the Soviets close in a timeline where the D2O in Norway made it to Germany but production was a little slow to make a difference....

Of course that is still a suicide bomber...............

[Typhoon]

Humanity has always had more than its' fair share of looney tunes.

However, what rulers want to do, no matter how crazy their pronouncements, is to rule and to send others to fight and die for their interests.

MAD makes the rulers one of the first key targets and would leave them with nothing left to rule.

I think the fear is a suicide bomber with a nuke.

Portable nuclear weapons - suitcase nukes - are on the edge of engineering.

Only the US and speculatively the former SU has/had the technical skills to produce such weapons.

On the other end of the scale, only the major nuclear powers have missiles capable of intercontinental delivery.

if you want a plausible scenario to worry about, then consider a conventional size nuclear weapon in a standard shipping container.

The US does not currently scan, to my knowledge, all incoming containers. It should do so.

Rather than spending time, effort, and money feeling up visitors and citizens at airports.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

I don't subscribe to the school of Futurism that assumes that because things have gone a certain way for a few decades that they will continue to go that way endlessly into the future.

[noddy]

that graph of yours colonel sun, it doth smooth out alot of blips which had a lot of people dieing on mass, like the period of the black death

[Typhoon]

that graph of yours colonel sun, it doth smooth out alot of blips which had a lot of people dieing on mass, like the period of the black death

The [black death] plague reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in the 14th century

And the 1918 flu pandemic which killed far more people than WWI:

The Spanish flu pandemic lasted from January 1918 to December 1920, spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. Between 20 and 50 million died, making it one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history. Using the higher estimate of 50 million people, 3% of the world's population (which was 1.86 billion at the time)

To be sure. However, the key points are

1/ that both were due to natural as opposed to man-made causes; and

2/ the human population recovered

[Typhoon]

I don't subscribe to the school of Futurism that assumes that because things have gone a certain way for a few decades that they will continue to go that way endlessly into the future.

Neither do I. However, i'm very skeptical of imminent man-made doomsday predictions.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

I don't subscribe to the school of Futurism that assumes that because things have gone a certain way for a few decades that they will continue to go that way endlessly into the future.

Neither do I. However, i'm very skeptical of imminent man-made doomsday predictions.

I don't think it's imminent. But neither is inter-stellar space travel. And the greater the level of technological achievement required means that the closer we get to inter-stellar travel, the more likely it is that we'll lose our minds long enough to commit specicide one way or another.

[Enki]

Portable nuclear weapons - suitcase nukes - are on the edge of engineering.

Monster Gardener hit on exactly what I was talking about. Some dictator with a SCUD with a nuclear warhead who fires it right before the enemy breaches his compound. I think that's what the real fear is. The fear is that Iran or some other country won't have the failsafes that keep a single crazy dictator from pressing the button.

Only the US and speculatively the former SU has/had the technical skills to produce such weapons.

On the other end of the scale, only the major nuclear powers have missiles capable of intercontinental delivery.

Iran or Iraq could hit Israel. Or Iran could hit Iraq, or Pakistan could hit India.

if you want a plausible scenario to worry about, then consider a conventional size nuclear weapon in a standard shipping container.

I am not particularly worried about it, but yes, that's plausible. The issue being that people are worried about someone for whom the logic of MAD doesn't apply. The fear is a nuke being under the control of people who are willing to die for their cause.

The US does not currently scan, to my knowledge, all incoming containers. It should do so.

They are building up fast to that capacity. A friend of my Dad's has a company that makes the supercomputers that do the radiological modelling for ports for just that capacity.

Rather than spending time, effort, and money feeling up visitors and citizens at airports.

Well, can't it be both?

[Typhoon]

Portable nuclear weapons - suitcase nukes - are on the edge of engineering.

Monster Gardener hit on exactly what I was talking about. Some dictator with a SCUD with a nuclear warhead who fires it right before the enemy breaches his compound. I think that's what the real fear is. The fear is that Iran or some other country won't have the failsafes that keep a single crazy dictator from pressing the button.

What of it?

Only the US and speculatively the former SU has/had the technical skills to produce such weapons.

On the other end of the scale, only the major nuclear powers have missiles capable of intercontinental delivery.

Iran or Iraq could hit Israel. Or Iran could hit Iraq, or Pakistan could hit India.

None of which are part of the US the last time I checked.

MAD had probably helped keep the peace between India and Pakistan and India and China.

if you want a plausible scenario to worry about, then consider a conventional size nuclear weapon in a standard shipping container.

I am not particularly worried about it, but yes, that's plausible. The issue being that people are worried about someone for whom the logic of MAD doesn't apply. The fear is a nuke being under the control of people who are willing to die for their cause.

The US does not currently scan, to my knowledge, all incoming containers. It should do so.

They are building up fast to that capacity. A friend of my Dad's has a company that makes the supercomputers that do the radiological modelling for ports for just that capacity.

Good. About time.

Rather than spending time, effort, and money feeling up visitors and citizens at airports.

Well, can't it be both?

Depends on what type of country you want to live in.

[Typhoon]

I don't subscribe to the school of Futurism that assumes that because things have gone a certain way for a few decades that they will continue to go that way endlessly into the future.

Neither do I. However, i'm very skeptical of imminent man-made doomsday predictions.

I don't think it's imminent. But neither is inter-stellar space travel. And the greater the level of technological achievement required means that the closer we get to inter-stellar travel, the more likely it is that we'll lose our minds long enough to commit specicide one way or another.

I rather think the opposite. The less safe from personal harm are the rulers the less willing they will be to use weapons of mass destruction.

[Parodite]

I don't think it's imminent. But neither is inter-stellar space travel. And the greater the level of technological achievement required means that the closer we get to inter-stellar travel, the more likely it is that we'll lose our minds long enough to commit specicide one way or another.

I rather think the opposite. The less safe from personal harm are the rulers the less willing they will be to use weapons of mass destruction.

There are terrorists who only feel safe and rewarded in heaven.

[Ibrahim]

I don't think it's imminent. But neither is inter-stellar space travel. And the greater the level of technological achievement required means that the closer we get to inter-stellar travel, the more likely it is that we'll lose our minds long enough to commit specicide one way or another.

I rather think the opposite. The less safe from personal harm are the rulers the less willing they will be to use weapons of mass destruction.

There are terrorists who only feel safe and rewarded in heaven.

You infrequently see them in management positions, less so heads of state.

[monster_gardener]

I don't think it's imminent. But neither is inter-stellar space travel. And the greater the level of technological achievement required means that the closer we get to inter-stellar travel, the more likely it is that we'll lose our minds long enough to commit specicide one way or another.

I rather think the opposite. The less safe from personal harm are the rulers the less willing they will be to use weapons of mass destruction.

There are terrorists who only feel safe and rewarded in heaven.

You infrequently see them in management positions, less so heads of state.

Thank you Very Much For Your Posts, Ibrahim and Parodite.

You infrequently see them in management positions, less so heads of state.

I'm not so sure about that......

IMVHO it doesn't have to be a "terrorist" personality.........

Doesn't even have to be 72 Virgin Heaven ....

Remember what happened to SadDamn Hussein.......

"Heaven" could be just dying the way one chooses to while taking your enemies to the grave with you.......

Like Samson did in the Temple of Dagon so long ago.....

As opposed to letting your enemies parade you around in a humiliating triumph/show trial that shows they beat you.....

Or worse as happened with GadDaffi Duck once his goose was cooked

And what happened/is said to have happened to Uz AmbASSador Stevens in Libya........

You may gain immortality as someone History will remember and admire and shudder at....

I wouldn't want to bet that if the latest incarnation of the Nork Kim Ill Devil is in serious danger of being overthrown, he will not commit suicide by nuke if he is able......

I will guarantee you that Hitler would have done it if he were able.....

Despicable Dolph felt betrayed by the Germans... and ordered destructive policies at the end to punish them......

Thank G_D he didn't have a salted nuke.......

Time to be off this Planet of Killer Apes.......

[Uche Americanus]

Enki wrote:
Uche Americanus wrote:
Enki,

If there is going to be an alien invasion of earth, I think I would have gotten a premonition of it. This does not rule out the possibility of their existence except, why would they want to bother with "earthly barbarians" like us? We do a good job killing ourselves as it is.


Who says they recognize our political systems at all? Maybe they just want a planet capable of supporting life.

Never thought of that aspect, greed and displacement of our species. It just seems that with the kind of technology available to them they should be able to find other earth like planets out there instead of coming to take this one. Another thing to consider, is that the aliens are there might not have war like nature like humans. It might also be cheaper colonizing us to bother with fighting us.

[Uche Americanus]

Simple Mind wrote:
Simple Minded » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:06 am

Uche Americanus wrote:
Enki,

If there is going to be an alien invasion of earth, I think I would have gotten a premonition of it. This does not rule out the possibility of their existence except, why would they want to bother with "earthly barbarians" like us?


Welcome back Brother Uche ,

Cause we are high in protein and we can't run very fast?

How do we know they would not worship as enlightened creatures..... That might be worse than getting eaten!

Hey brother Simple Mind,

How have you been? Now, don't start scaring me (and some here) with the idea of going up against alien cannibals.

As for worshipping them that will be simple. Didn't the Aztecs or maybe it was the Mayans on encoutering their first whites think that they were gods sent to them from heaven? Most ancient cultures held similar beliefs on meeting a new people and culture for the first time. But such beliefs last for a brief time before the natives start aiming their bows and arrows at these "gods". It is hard enough dealing with the concept of a potentially "superior" alien species wanting to take over our little planet but the idea of worshipping them is enough to turn me into a resistance fighter.

[Enki]

Enki wrote:
Uche Americanus wrote:
Enki,

If there is going to be an alien invasion of earth, I think I would have gotten a premonition of it. This does not rule out the possibility of their existence except, why would they want to bother with "earthly barbarians" like us? We do a good job killing ourselves as it is.


Who says they recognize our political systems at all? Maybe they just want a planet capable of supporting life.

Never thought of that aspect, greed and displacement of our species. It just seems that with the kind of technology available to them they should be able to find other earth like planets out there instead of coming to take this one.

I wonder if the peoples of the other Earthlike planets are making that argument as well. European colonists went out to Asia, Africa, North and South America all at once. They didn't pick one or another.

Another thing to consider, is that the aliens are there might not have war like nature like humans.

"Warlike' is still anthropomorphization. Are termites eating a tree 'warlike'?

It might also be cheaper colonizing us to bother with fighting us.

Domesticated pack animals?

[Simple Minded]

Hey brother Simple Mind,

How have you been? Now, don't start scaring me (and some here) with the idea of going up against alien cannibals.

As for worshipping them that will be simple. Didn't the Aztecs or maybe it was the Mayans on encoutering their first whites think that they were gods sent to them from heaven? Most ancient cultures held similar beliefs on meeting a new people and culture for the first time. But such beliefs last for a brief time before the natives start aiming their bows and arrows at these "gods". It is hard enough dealing with the concept of a potentially "superior" alien species wanting to take over our little planet but the idea of worshipping them is enough to turn me into a resistance fighter.

I am well, hope you are the same.

Just having fun, but then again, if they started eating only fat people would they be considered "green" and would we then start worshipping them (again) as those who will save us from ourselves?

I think if they wanted to eat us, they would have done so long ago. But then again, it could be like sport hunting. Does the deer herd have any idea what happened to Fred when he fails to show up at the watering hole on Friday night?

I have talked to several pilots who have no doubt whatsoever that we are not alone. And as you pointed out, history seems to suggest the same.

IMSMO, I think it would only be human arrogance or maybe fear (?) that would cause one to think otherwise.

[monster_gardener]

Hey brother Simple Mind,

How have you been? Now, don't start scaring me (and some here) with the idea of going up against alien cannibals.

As for worshipping them that will be simple. Didn't the Aztecs or maybe it was the Mayans on encoutering their first whites think that they were gods sent to them from heaven? Most ancient cultures held similar beliefs on meeting a new people and culture for the first time. But such beliefs last for a brief time before the natives start aiming their bows and arrows at these "gods". It is hard enough dealing with the concept of a potentially "superior" alien species wanting to take over our little planet but the idea of worshipping them is enough to turn me into a resistance fighter.

I am well, hope you are the same.

Just having fun, but then again, if they started eating only fat people would they be considered "green" and would we then start worshipping them (again) as those who will save us from ourselves?

I think if they wanted to eat us, they would have done so long ago. But then again, it could be like sport hunting. Does the deer herd have any idea what happened to Fred when he fails to show up at the watering hole on Friday night?

I have talked to several pilots who have no doubt whatsoever that we are not alone. And as you pointed out, history seems to suggest the same.

IMSMO, I think it would only be human arrogance or maybe fear (?) that would cause one to think otherwise.

Thank You Very Much for your posts Uche & Simple Minded,

From a Demon Knight oops I mean Damon Knight timeline........

United Nations translator.... a special session of the UN where three alien emissaries, the pig-like "Kanamit," are testifying that the purpose of their mission to Earth is to "bring to you the peace and plenty which we ourselves enjoy, and which we have in the past brought to other races throughout the galaxy." The aliens soon supply Earth with cheap unlimited power, a device that suppresses explosions, and drugs for prolonging life. As a further token of friendship, they allow humans to visit their home planet via ten-year "exchange groups."

A friend of the narrator, a UN translator named Gregori, steals one of the Kanamit books, and he and the narrator attempt to translate it, via a basic Kanamit-English dictionary provided by the aliens. After some weeks, they determine that the title is "To Serve Man." Two weeks later, the narrator returns from a trip to find Gregori distraught. Gregori says that he has managed to translate the first paragraph of the book, and has determined that "it's a cookbook"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man

In a Larry Niven Timeline similar aliens are polite and contractual...... Buy licenses to clone and cook the mindless clones...... Just a matter of taste ...... Though a bit creepy...

IIRC: ASSIMILATING OUR CULTURE, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING!
http://www.sfreviews.net/dracotavern.html

[Typhoon]

Simple Mind wrote:
Simple Minded » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:06 am

Uche Americanus wrote:
Enki,

If there is going to be an alien invasion of earth, I think I would have gotten a premonition of it. This does not rule out the possibility of their existence except, why would they want to bother with "earthly barbarians" like us?


Welcome back Brother Uche ,

Cause we are high in protein and we can't run very fast?

How do we know they would not worship as enlightened creatures..... That might be worse than getting eaten!

Hey brother Simple Mind,

How have you been? Now, don't start scaring me (and some here) with the idea of going up against alien cannibals.

As for worshipping them that will be simple. Didn't the Aztecs or maybe it was the Mayans on encoutering their first whites think that they were gods sent to them from heaven? Most ancient cultures held similar beliefs on meeting a new people and culture for the first time. But such beliefs last for a brief time before the natives start aiming their bows and arrows at these "gods". It is hard enough dealing with the concept of a potentially "superior" alien species wanting to take over our little planet but the idea of worshipping them is enough to turn me into a resistance fighter.

3dJf5rO0-BM