Another leftist milestone: UN control of the internet

[Mr. Perfect]

World Government has been accomplished for longer than anyone posting on this forum has been alive.

Arguable on the fine points but now this World Government is approaching limitlessness. Congratulations.

[Doc]

My friend who went to Cayuga for the final week said it was 375,000 x 3. Maybe not in two days, but in the final week.

Surreal. Driven by data. A nation wide political machine. Elections are now a sham.

The business I am trying to break into is to create apps that lower the barrier to entry for campaigns to have those kinds of tools. That way Independents, Libertarians, etc... have more of a fighting chance against these BigData shenanigans.

It will still be a sham Tinker. BigData costs big money. Even with big money you have to get the cooperation of the Bigdata Billionaires to make it work. It is not just an app. IE No BigData, no BigData results. But I promise you this with BigData it may be the Republicans It may be the Democrats(At this point it looks like it will be) but you are going to see a nation wide political machine. All politics may be local but the locals are going to have to ride the national coat tails. Or else!!! Bigdata will turn on them.

Those in power can then lie without worrying about the results. It is almost that way already. IF someone calls them on their lies they will be labeled is such a way no one will listen to them.

If Hitler had BigData it would have taken him a couple of weeks, not 100 days to go from a democracy to a dictatorship. But of course with Bigdata there isn't much need for a declaration of dictatorship. Since if supporters have doubts a virtual red light goes off in the database at party headquarters and the minders are sent straight away to bring them back in the fold. Perhaps by peer pressure. Perhaps by buying them off. Perhaps by telling them what is bad things are going to happen to them should they turn against the party.

Maybe they won't have to even send around the minders. Maybe they will just reject your application for life saving surgery because you forgot to cross all the "t"s and dot all the "i"s on your surgical application form. So "Back to the end of the waiting line"

Not saying that will be but as we move forward into the brave new world, what could be is likely to be.

[monster_gardener]

http://www.extremetech.com/internet/140 ... e-internet
Russia wants United Nations to have control of the internet

But the good news is we can see more of Putin's physical exploits, as well as, his beautiful female followers!!!



And nyet !!! to

Thank You Very Much for Your Post, Doc.

Not saying that Putin is a Paladin but at least he seems to be a Russian Who Really Wants Russia to do Well unlike what IMVHO We UhMeriKuns have in Uz currently with......

President Choom Hog The Son of a Bitch Eating Lazy Except When Trying to Get Elected Lying Obama

I Remember Reading about this long ago on Rex May's/Baloo's Libertarian Cartoon Site.....

One Cartoon Proposed Putin for President of Uz
Because

He Guards His Country's Borders
He Protects His Citzens Abroad**
He Won't Permit Illegal Immigration
He Prosecutes Financial Criminals
He Puts His Country's Interests First

Might be Nice for Nationalists Down in the Black Gang to get some good for the Nation with the bad.....

Here is a link that Propounds How that Republican's could have Run a Russian Like Putin for Prez of Uz instead of Romney the Gypsy of Political Positions

pretend than Putin was born in Hawaii? Or American Samoa? Or maybe, somehow, in the US Embassy in Moscow. That would make him a natural-born citizen, right? I mean, if Prince Bumpo * qualifies, we can't leave a guy like Vlad out, can we? Assuming he'd turn his pro-Russianism into pro-Americanism if we made him President, he'd clearly be the most pro-American President since Coolidge.

http://ex-army.blogspot.com/2012/09/putin-vs-obama.html

* At first I was Puzzled why so Martial a figure as Bumpo/Hawkeye the Marksman, was Mentioned in connection with Obama.....

Don't remember if Obama has ever fired a Gun but suspect that if Obama even touched one his Awful friend Atty. General Eric Holder would likely Conspire to Confiscate it.

Drones Don't Count

So I searched further and Bumped into the right Bumpo......

Appropriately from Dr. DoLittle (Good ;in Obama's case ) .......

Prince Bumpo the African Prince who dreams of being a European Prince ...

And these days the true Princes of Europe may well be the EurocRats in Brussels....

Not Natty Bumpo from James Fenimore Cooper's pen........

**Benghazi anybody....... If you're not going to protect your diplomats, get them out like the Brits did.

[Enki]

It will still be a sham Tinker. BigData costs big money. Even with big money you have to get the cooperation of the Bigdata Billionaires to make it work. It is not just an app. IE No BigData, no BigData results. But I promise you this with BigData it may be the Republicans It may be the Democrats(At this point it looks like it will be) but you are going to see a nation wide political machine. All politics may be local but the locals are going to have to ride the national coat tails. Or else!!! Bigdata will turn on them.

Well there will always be a cost. Right now there is a hole in the market that is not being catered to at the current Presidential level pricing. But at the end of the day, politics is not that complex and you can learn a lot about political situations with publicly available data. There are actually a great deal of the problems faced by political campaigns that can be resolved with an app and resolving the problem, making it easier to use reduces the barrier to entry.

Those in power can then lie without worrying about the results. It is almost that way already. IF someone calls them on their lies they will be labeled is such a way no one will listen to them.

If Hitler had BigData it would have taken him a couple of weeks, not 100 days to go from a democracy to a dictatorship. But of course with Bigdata there isn't much need for a declaration of dictatorship. Since if supporters have doubts a virtual red light goes off in the database at party headquarters and the minders are sent straight away to bring them back in the fold. Perhaps by peer pressure. Perhaps by buying them off. Perhaps by telling them what is bad things are going to happen to them should they turn against the party.

Well Hitler kind of started BigData with the Final Solution. The codebreaking and crypto stuff spawned the rest. We'll see how that goes. It's a possibility. That is why I want to see the technology remain as open as possible. Some of the tech only Obama has today, state senators will have in 2014.

Maybe they won't have to even send around the minders. Maybe they will just reject your application for life saving surgery because you forgot to cross all the "t"s and dot all the "i"s on your surgical application form. So "Back to the end of the waiting line"

That sort of thing actually is reduced by BigData. It is reduced considerably. I can get in and out of the Harlem DMV in half an hour. Basically I wait in line as long as it takes me to fill out the forms.

Not saying that will be but as we move forward into the brave new world, what could be is likely to be.

It's going to be a whole lot different than most people imagine.

[noddy]

piracy and copyright, intellectual property protection, terrorism, infrastructure protection, kiddie pron, drug smugglers .. all good bipartisan reasons that governments around the world "need" to cooperate and control the internet.

Yeah; the whole thing will be controlled for the sake of commerce. Everything in the name of commerce.

And I am thoroughly disturbed; but when we got to the point where "INTERNET" became a necessity....what do you do?

I mean, I don't even like to give out my real name in public- forget about cookies- "major" sites all take your e-mail address or use that Disqus platform that bundles every comment you make into one easy package....gives me the creeps.

And when you go out of your way to do little things, as ineffective as they are, like setting up multiple e-mail addresses to give for those sites- at best you are thought of as eccentric. At worst....well...you got to get on board, right?

they started pushing for the official single-id authentication on the net but then realised it was not required - much like they started pushing for national identity cards in several countries before realising they also were not required.

we already have many unique id's - social security,drivers license,credit card,mobile phone,ip address etc being the big obvious ones, and most of these are linked together at purchase time - so all that is actually required is to improve the central database cross referencing of all these and their is no need to scare the population with big changes, it can all happen quietly in the background.

tis a shame pop culture remains fixated on the single "number of the beast", in reality its a many headed beastie indeed.

[Enki]

piracy and copyright, intellectual property protection, terrorism, infrastructure protection, kiddie pron, drug smugglers .. all good bipartisan reasons that governments around the world "need" to cooperate and control the internet.

Yeah; the whole thing will be controlled for the sake of commerce. Everything in the name of commerce.

And I am thoroughly disturbed; but when we got to the point where "INTERNET" became a necessity....what do you do?

I mean, I don't even like to give out my real name in public- forget about cookies- "major" sites all take your e-mail address or use that Disqus platform that bundles every comment you make into one easy package....gives me the creeps.

And when you go out of your way to do little things, as ineffective as they are, like setting up multiple e-mail addresses to give for those sites- at best you are thought of as eccentric. At worst....well...you got to get on board, right?

they started pushing for the official single-id authentication on the net but then realised it was not required - much like they started pushing for national identity cards in several countries before realising they also were not required.

we already have many unique id's - social security,drivers license,credit card,mobile phone,ip address etc being the big obvious ones, and most of these are linked together at purchase time - so all that is actually required is to improve the central database cross referencing of all these and their is no need to scare the population with big changes, it can all happen quietly in the background.

tis a shame pop culture remains fixated on the single "number of the beast", in reality its a many headed beastie indeed.

01 <----The number of the Beast.

[noddy]

the first successful anglosphere BigData project was william the conqueror and his domesday book - its been incremental improvements ever since then and the latest round that also includes all our conversations and movements is going to be very interesting.

talking around subjects and having privately verbally agreed synonyms.. we are all sneeky teenagers now

[Doc]

It will still be a sham Tinker. BigData costs big money. Even with big money you have to get the cooperation of the Bigdata Billionaires to make it work. It is not just an app. IE No BigData, no BigData results. But I promise you this with BigData it may be the Republicans It may be the Democrats(At this point it looks like it will be) but you are going to see a nation wide political machine. All politics may be local but the locals are going to have to ride the national coat tails. Or else!!! Bigdata will turn on them.

Well there will always be a cost. Right now there is a hole in the market that is not being catered to at the current Presidential level pricing. But at the end of the day, politics is not that complex and you can learn a lot about political situations with publicly available data. There are actually a great deal of the problems faced by political campaigns that can be resolved with an app and resolving the problem, making it easier to use reduces the barrier to entry.

But that is just it. The local campaigns will be inextricably tied to help from the National campaigns. Local campaign don't even generate enough money to do polling unless there is a rich outside interest that is interested enough to pay for the polls.

Look at what can be done with Publicly available data by any internet scammer. Real world personal example from yesterday:

About 10 Am at my work we received an fax from a company asking for open account terms to buy products we sell. The fax looked quite legitimate. It had the legitimate name of the Company. The correct address of the company. The correct company logo. The name of a real person that works at that company. All professional looking. In the fax they asked that we send a credit application to them via email. There was a fax number on it but no telephone number.

It was all a scam. The scammer got the company info from somewhere like LInked-in or facebook which was undoubtedly listed in the profile of the real person that works at that company. A quick internet search turned up the phone number for the company. The email address has the correct domain except that there was an 'S' at the end of the name IE Something'S'.com rather than something.com. Called the company and found out that yes it was a scam. They thanked us for letting them know about it.

All of which would lead many to believe anyone falling for something like this is really stupid. However there is always a new twist to it. It keeps evolving and people that are not stupid get fooled by it. I personally know of a couple that amounted to 10's of thousands of dollars.

That is what can be done by nearly illiterate ignorant people with a minimum of publicly available data.. Imagine what could be done with data beyond what is publicly available. Consumer databases, credit databases, Party data bases law enforcement.

It is not that there is a vast conspiracy to use bigdata to take over. It is that what being done, as you point out, evolves. And there is nothing that is going to stop it from evolving is ways that are compatible with a healthy Democracy.

This did not start with Politicians but it will finish in their court as they are the ones that make the laws. Every notice how every time campaign finance laws are a passed that the Politicians end up having more money to spend?

Those in power can then lie without worrying about the results. It is almost that way already. IF someone calls them on their lies they will be labeled is such a way no one will listen to them.

If Hitler had BigData it would have taken him a couple of weeks, not 100 days to go from a democracy to a dictatorship. But of course with Bigdata there isn't much need for a declaration of dictatorship. Since if supporters have doubts a virtual red light goes off in the database at party headquarters and the minders are sent straight away to bring them back in the fold. Perhaps by peer pressure. Perhaps by buying them off. Perhaps by telling them what is bad things are going to happen to them should they turn against the party.

Well Hitler kind of started BigData with the Final Solution. The codebreaking and crypto stuff spawned the rest. We'll see how that goes. It's a possibility. That is why I want to see the technology remain as open as possible. Some of the tech only Obama has today, state senators will have in 2014.

I don't see how "keeping the technology open" is going to matter in the least since much of the technology isn't open and hasn't been for a long time.

Maybe they won't have to even send around the minders. Maybe they will just reject your application for life saving surgery because you forgot to cross all the "t"s and dot all the "i"s on your surgical application form. So "Back to the end of the waiting line"

That sort of thing actually is reduced by BigData. It is reduced considerably. I can get in and out of the Harlem DMV in half an hour. Basically I wait in line as long as it takes me to fill out the forms.

Getting out of the DMV is a fleeting benefit. An upside in something that is much more downside. Have you ever tried to deal with a major problem with say Amazon or Google? Try to call them to get it fixed. If you have the number please give it to me as I could use it.

Not saying that will be but as we move forward into the brave new world, what could be is likely to be.

It's going to be a whole lot different than most people imagine.

Yeap -- a whole lot.

[Enki]

But that is just it. The local campaigns will be inextricably tied to help from the National campaigns. Local campaign don't even generate enough money to do polling unless there is a rich outside interest that is interested enough to pay for the polls.

That is true, but even the rich parties don't generally poll for local campaigns anyway. We're looking at building canvassing apps that can capture information while you are in the field. Combine that with a lot of the publicly available data such as crime statistics, housing prices, foreclosure rates, etc... and your grassroots campaign has a fighting chance. It's about making it cheaper, not about making it free. Once a grassroots candidate wins, they are higher profile and can raise more money and build their own machines. Intra-party there are machines separate and distinct from one another that vie for power in New York City. My goal is just to make that space more competitive.

Look at what can be done with Publicly available data by any internet scammer. Real world personal example from yesterday:

About 10 Am at my work we received an fax from a company asking for open account terms to buy products we sell. The fax looked quite legitimate. It had the legitimate name of the Company. The correct address of the company. The correct company logo. The name of a real person that works at that company. All professional looking. In the fax they asked that we send a credit application to them via email. There was a fax number on it but no telephone number.

It was all a scam. The scammer got the company info from somewhere like LInked-in or facebook which was undoubtedly listed in the profile of the real person that works at that company. A quick internet search turned up the phone number for the company. The email address has the correct domain except that there was an 'S' at the end of the name IE Something'S'.com rather than something.com. Called the company and found out that yes it was a scam. They thanked us for letting them know about it.

Yeah, that kind of thing happens. Not sure what your point is. Access to information creates new problems.

All of which would lead many to believe anyone falling for something like this is really stupid. However there is always a new twist to it. It keeps evolving and people that are not stupid get fooled by it. I personally know of a couple that amounted to 10's of thousands of dollars.

That is what can be done by nearly illiterate ignorant people with a minimum of publicly available data.. Imagine what could be done with data beyond what is publicly available. Consumer databases, credit databases, Party data bases law enforcement.

I do imagine it, I've given a great deal of thought to the subject. A lot of law enforcement data is public. But the reality of the data that is available publicly is that it is so much more robust than most people realize.

It is not that there is a vast conspiracy to use bigdata to take over. It is that what being done, as you point out, evolves. And there is nothing that is going to stop it from evolving is ways that are compatible with a healthy Democracy.

This did not start with Politicians but it will finish in their court as they are the ones that make the laws. Every notice how every time campaign finance laws are a passed that the Politicians end up having more money to spend?

Well, I know for a fact that this data is not limited to certain special interests. Can someone with a million dollar budget get superior information from Acxiom than I could? Sure. And access to data is definitely a 'class' struggle if you will. Jaron Lanier spoke on this controversial at the Personal Democracy Forum which is the Open-Gov crowd. It caused quite a stir when he started talking about 'data-castles' and wealth measured in hoarded data. The crowd at that conference is on the privileged side of the access to information line.

No, not all campaign finance laws end up with politicians having more money to spend. A lot of city council races are constraining themselves to some public matching funds this year.

I don't see how "keeping the technology open" is going to matter in the least since much of the technology isn't open and hasn't been for a long time.

I don't know what 'keeping it open' even means. Some data is open, a whole genuflecting lot of it in fact, and some of it isn't. Right now the government is on a kick of opening up access to information rather than restricting it. data.gov is one of the most interesting things that Obama has done.

To put it succinctly, as a small business entrepeneur trying to get a startup off the ground, I do not feel that the data I need to do my business is out of my reach. I know how much it costs, and some of it I cannot yet afford, so that like with any business is a problem to be surmounted.

Getting out of the DMV is a fleeting benefit. An upside in something that is much more downside. Have you ever tried to deal with a major problem with say Amazon or Google? Try to call them to get it fixed. If you have the number please give it to me as I could use it.

True, that's a problem with some of these big firms. But did you ever call Dupont when your Tupperware was faulty?

Yeap -- a whole lot.

I am fascinated by what exists between data. I am not as much interested in a particular type of data as much as I am what can be understood from merging large datasets.

[Doc]

Tinker let me try to make this simple instead of writing a book.

go to this site and download this open source add on app:

http://noscript.net/

Once you have it installed try browsing the web. Look at news sites and ecommerce sites. What you will see is that on most commercial site is an average of about 10 script running per page. Think of each Script as someone standing behind you writing down everything you do online. It does not matter if you go to another site. The same folks will be there as well. The idea behind this is that the data collected from you and everyone else can then be quantized into a massive database AKA Bigdata.

Each individual person is quantized by many different parameters based on sociological and psychological studies. There may be 100's of parameters. For example how likely a person is going to vote. How likely they are going to vote for a particular candidate. How likely they are going to be upset by a particular issue and stop thinking about anything else in their decision to vote or not vote if prodded enough about it.

In other words you try to flim flam people into voting for things whether or not they are against their interests or conversely convince not to vote when it is in their interests to do so.

For Bigdata to mean anything in the context of elections you need first to know a great deal about marketing. That determines what BigData you actually need. To use it effectively it needs to tell you not only how much you can change people minds but also when they are most vulnerable to your sales pitch so you have the best chance of scamming them into to voting for your interests over theirs.

I suppose that sounds like something quite acceptable for someone that leaves someplace but keeps the key to sneak back in anytime they want to, doesn't it?

[Enki]

Tinker let me try to make this simple instead of writing a book.

go to this site and download this open source add on app:

http://noscript.net/

Once you have it installed try browsing the web. Look at news sites and ecommerce sites. What you will see is that on most commercial site is an average of about 10 script running per page. Think of each Script as someone standing behind you writing down everything you do online. It does not matter if you go to another site. The same folks will be there as well. The idea behind this is that the data collected from you and everyone else can then be quantized into a massive database AKA Bigdata.

And most of that data is available on the market.

Each individual person is quantized by many different parameters based on sociological and psychological studies. There may be 100's of parameters. For example how likely a person is going to vote. How likely they are going to vote for a particular candidate. How likely they are going to be upset by a particular issue and stop thinking about anything else in their decision to vote or not vote if prodded enough about it.

Yep.

In other words you try to flim flam people into voting for things whether or not they are against their interests or conversely convince not to vote when it is in their interests to do so.

Yes.

For Bigdata to mean anything in the context of elections you need first to know a great deal about marketing. That determines what BigData you actually need. To use it effectively it needs to tell you not only how much you can change people minds but also when they are most vulnerable to your sales pitch so you have the best chance of scamming them into to voting for your interests over theirs.

For elections you mostly need to know their address, phone number, and whether or not they are actually a registered voter in your district. Most of the rest of that stuff is beyond anything below the Federal level. Mostly they are trying to get the word out that they are running for office. Not a lot of time is spent on changing the minds of individual voters. Voter contact is not measured in minutes, it's measured in seconds. Arguing with constituents isn't that great of a tactic unless your audience is already favorable to what you have to say.

I suppose that sounds like something quite acceptable for someone that leaves someplace but keeps the key to sneak back in anytime they want to, doesn't it?

It's a brave new world.

[Doc]

Tinker let me try to make this simple instead of writing a book.

go to this site and download this open source add on app:

http://noscript.net/

Once you have it installed try browsing the web. Look at news sites and ecommerce sites. What you will see is that on most commercial site is an average of about 10 script running per page. Think of each Script as someone standing behind you writing down everything you do online. It does not matter if you go to another site. The same folks will be there as well. The idea behind this is that the data collected from you and everyone else can then be quantized into a massive database AKA Bigdata.

And most of that data is available on the market.

Sure but bigdata costs BigBucks. DO you know how much the database for the sales tax rates in all tax localities in the US costs? Last time I checked it was a $65,000 annual subscription. And Imagine that is publicly available data.

For Bigdata to mean anything in the context of elections you need first to know a great deal about marketing. That determines what BigData you actually need. To use it effectively it needs to tell you not only how much you can change people minds but also when they are most vulnerable to your sales pitch so you have the best chance of scamming them into to voting for your interests over theirs.

For elections you mostly need to know their address, phone number, and whether or not they are actually a registered voter in your district. Most of the rest of that stuff is beyond anything below the Federal level. Mostly they are trying to get the word out that they are running for office. Not a lot of time is spent on changing the minds of individual voters. Voter contact is not measured in minutes, it's measured in seconds. Arguing with constituents isn't that great of a tactic unless your audience is already favorable to what you have to say.

I suppose that sounds like something quite acceptable for someone that leaves someplace but keeps the key to sneak back in anytime they want to, doesn't it?

It's a brave new world.

The voter registration roles would be helpful I suppose But honestly You don't need any app. What you need to do is this. Find a sociopath to run for office and have them go to every door in the district. Introduce themselves when someone comes to the door Tell them which office they are running for. Then they should just listen smile where appropriate nodding or shaking their head appropriate to signal complete agreement. And your candidate will win.

I know of a politician that did just this to get a seat on a small town city council. Now he is a state senator and his entire family works for the local county court house. He even had a job created for his brother. -- Voter registrar. So easy for him to now get the eligible voter list. But of course he doesn't even bother to go door to door anymore.

[Enki]

Sure but bigdata costs BigBucks. DO you know how much the database for the sales tax rates in all tax localities in the US costs? Last time I checked it was a $65,000 annual subscription. And Imagine that is publicly available data. [/quotes]

Sounds like a good thing to aggregate. Very crowd-sourceable idea. For $ 25k annually I could hire someone to just do the legwork.

The voter registration roles would be helpful I suppose But honestly You don't need any app. What you need to do is this. Find a sociopath to run for office and have them go to every door in the district. Introduce themselves when someone comes to the door Tell them which office they are running for. Then they should just listen smile where appropriate nodding or shaking their head appropriate to signal complete agreement. And your candidate will win.

That sounds like a good way to not accomplish anything. The candidate cannot possibly knock on every door in the district unless it's a small town. They also need to be a known quantity in the community. Your method does happen, but they DO need apps, and there are a number of examples of just such a sociopath LOSING because his app didn't work. Just happened to a guy running for President even. It also happened to the Dem party hack they put up to take Anthony Weiner's House seat. They lost because their Get Out the Vote app didn't track volume of contacts very well.

I know of a politician that did just this to get a seat on a small town city council. Now he is a state senator and his entire family works for the local county court house. He even had a job created for his brother. -- Voter registrar. So easy for him to now get the eligible voter list. But of course he doesn't even bother to go door to door anymore.

Everyone running a campaign can get the eligible voter list by walking into the Board of Elections and asking for it. It costs $ 50 for the service of having the CD burned with the appropriate data here in NY. In New York where even a City Council district is 80,000+ people, that's not a viable method.

[Doc]

Sure but bigdata costs BigBucks. DO you know how much the database for the sales tax rates in all tax localities in the US costs? Last time I checked it was a $65,000 annual subscription. And Imagine that is publicly available data. [/quotes]

Sounds like a good thing to aggregate. Very crowd-sourceable idea. For $ 25k annually I could hire someone to just do the legwork.

\

Oh I didn't mention the sale tac rates have to be up to date or there are fines to pay. What they do is pay someone in the Tax locality on their *spare time* to give them the rates on a timely basis.

The voter registration roles would be helpful I suppose But honestly You don't need any app. What you need to do is this. Find a sociopath to run for office and have them go to every door in the district. Introduce themselves when someone comes to the door Tell them which office they are running for. Then they should just listen smile where appropriate nodding or shaking their head appropriate to signal complete agreement. And your candidate will win.

That sounds like a good way to not accomplish anything. The candidate cannot possibly knock on every door in the district unless it's a small town. They also need to be a known quantity in the community. Your method does happen, but they DO need apps, and there are a number of examples of just such a sociopath LOSING because his app didn't work. Just happened to a guy running for President even. It also happened to the Dem party hack they put up to take Anthony Weiner's House seat. They lost because their Get Out the Vote app didn't track volume of contacts very well.

All politicians are more or less sociopaths. Some are just more successful at being sociopath than others

I know of a politician that did just this to get a seat on a small town city council. Now he is a state senator and his entire family works for the local county court house. He even had a job created for his brother. -- Voter registrar. So easy for him to now get the eligible voter list. But of course he doesn't even bother to go door to door anymore.

Everyone running a campaign can get the eligible voter list by walking into the Board of Elections and asking for it. It costs $ 50 for the service of having the CD burned with the appropriate data here in NY. In New York where even a City Council district is 80,000+ people, that's not a viable method.

Ok So you need a sociopath that is also a marathon runner.

[Typhoon]

the first successful anglosphere BigData project was william the conqueror and his domesday book - its been incremental improvements ever since then and the latest round that also includes all our conversations and movements is going to be very interesting.

talking around subjects and having privately verbally agreed synonyms.. we are all sneeky teenagers now

Or yakuza. The yakuzu have been doing this for generations to avoid the prying ears of undercover police.

Time to brush up on my yakuza-ben [dialect].

[Enki]

the first successful anglosphere BigData project was william the conqueror and his domesday book - its been incremental improvements ever since then and the latest round that also includes all our conversations and movements is going to be very interesting.

talking around subjects and having privately verbally agreed synonyms.. we are all sneeky teenagers now

Or yakuza. The yakuzu have been doing this for generations to avoid the prying ears of undercover police.

Time to brush up on my yakuza-ben [dialect].

I heard about ten years ago or so that one of the Colombian cartels had access to the phone records of all of Colombia. They were able to narrow down who snitched by running the phone records through a super computer. They could match call patterns that resembled, 'snitch talking to DEA', even if they used a pay phone.

It is amazing how much criteria you can eliminate in a pattern by matching three solid data points.

[Doc]

the first successful anglosphere BigData project was william the conqueror and his domesday book - its been incremental improvements ever since then and the latest round that also includes all our conversations and movements is going to be very interesting.

talking around subjects and having privately verbally agreed synonyms.. we are all sneeky teenagers now

Or yakuza. The yakuzu have been doing this for generations to avoid the prying ears of undercover police.

Time to brush up on my yakuza-ben [dialect].

I heard about ten years ago or so that one of the Colombian cartels had access to the phone records of all of Colombia. They were able to narrow down who snitched by running the phone records through a super computer. They could match call patterns that resembled, 'snitch talking to DEA', even if they used a pay phone.

It is amazing how much criteria you can eliminate in a pattern by matching three solid data points.

So you are only looking to triStrangulate the democratic process.

OK then you get the sociopath in front of young voters. Use the means I describe previously. Then use them as your foot soldiers. Send them out to the homes of the retired folks and have them be nice and helpful. Like the ideal grandchildren. Then hit them with the sales pitch.

With poorer voters send the foot soldiers out and use the same as previously describe then once trust has been built up a little, tell them that your candidate is going to get Obama to give them money if only he can over come the evil greedy racist republicans on wall street.

So the only data points you need are who is young, who is old, and who is poor. Though you really should quantify which of the young voters is registered to vote. Don't worry about the old and poor as the young voters will have plenty of enthusiasm so they won't mind so much playing grand kids to the old and sly preachers to the poor. But whatever you do don't let them figure out what a sham it is.

[Enki]

So you are only looking to triStrangulate the democratic process.

OK then you get the sociopath in front of young voters. Use the means I describe previously. Then use them as your foot soldiers. Send them out to the homes of the retired folks and have them be nice and helpful. Like the ideal grandchildren. Then hit them with the sales pitch.

Believe me, if I had access to that sort of campaign, I would be able to rock it... For me though, I am a true believer and would rather put the people I prefer into office.

With poorer voters send the foot soldiers out and use the same as previously describe then once trust has been built up a little, tell them that your candidate is going to get Obama to give them money if only he can over come the evil greedy racist republicans on wall street.

LOL

So the only data points you need are who is young, who is old, and who is poor. Though you really should quantify which of the young voters is registered to vote. Don't worry about the old and poor as the young voters will have plenty of enthusiasm so they won't mind so much playing grand kids to the old and sly preachers to the poor. But whatever you do don't let them figure out what a sham it is.

I have access to the voter data of the entire state any time I want it. I can tell who is young, who is old, who has reported income, who doesn't, how many of the last 8 elections they've voted in. I can do heat maps of the voter density of a particular district. I can overlay a cable advertising zones map on top of it.

I leave the establishment parties to play the game that you describe, and that is kind of the game they play, but the thing about that is the players are nowhere near as slick and sophisticated as people like to think they are.

[Doc]

So you are only looking to triStrangulate the democratic process.

OK then you get the sociopath in front of young voters. Use the means I describe previously. Then use them as your foot soldiers. Send them out to the homes of the retired folks and have them be nice and helpful. Like the ideal grandchildren. Then hit them with the sales pitch.

Believe me, if I had access to that sort of campaign, I would be able to rock it... For me though, I am a true believer and would rather put the people I prefer into office.

Now I am really worried about you Tinker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

Summary

Hoffer argues that all mass movements such as fascism, communism, and religion spread by promising a glorious future. To be successful, these mass movements need the adherents to be willing to sacrifice themselves and others for the future goals. To do so, mass movements often glorify the past and devalue the present. Mass movements appeal to frustrated people who are dissatisfied with their current state, but are capable of a strong belief in the future. As well, mass movements appeal to people who want to escape a flawed self by creating an imaginary self and joining a collective whole. Some categories of people who may be attracted to mass movements include poor people, misfits, former soldiers, and people who feel thwarted in their endeavors. Hoffer quotes extensively from leaders of the Nazi and communist parties in the early part of the 20th century, to demonstrate, among other things, that they were competing for adherents from the same pool of people predisposed to support mass movements. Despite the two parties' fierce antagonism, they were more likely to gain recruits from their opposing party than from moderates with no affiliation to either.

With poorer voters send the foot soldiers out and use the same as previously describe then once trust has been built up a little, tell them that your candidate is going to get Obama to give them money if only he can over come the evil greedy racist republicans on wall street.

LOL

So the only data points you need are who is young, who is old, and who is poor. Though you really should quantify which of the young voters is registered to vote. Don't worry about the old and poor as the young voters will have plenty of enthusiasm so they won't mind so much playing grand kids to the old and sly preachers to the poor. But whatever you do don't let them figure out what a sham it is.

I have access to the voter data of the entire state any time I want it. I can tell who is young, who is old, who has reported income, who doesn't, how many of the last 8 elections they've voted in. I can do heat maps of the voter density of a particular district. I can overlay a cable advertising zones map on top of it.

I leave the establishment parties to play the game that you describe, and that is kind of the game they play, but the thing about that is the players are nowhere near as slick and sophisticated as people like to think they are.

This is the game that all Politicians play to one degree of another. My point about Big Data is with it politicians can lie and suffer no consequences from lying. In fact the more they lie the more their opposition can be made to look like liars.

[Enki]

Sure. I will scarily be over here saying we should have less people in prison, and we shouldn't be empowering a whole industry to eavesdrop on our phones. Scary stuff.

[noddy]

the tech digitises and then records stuff, its what it does, it cant not do that.. railing against privacy destruction is like railing against the weather.

best you could hope for, and this is as unrealistic a hope as any, is that the government is made as transparent as all the rest ofus - its like a nudist colony now, so its uncomfortable having clothed perves around when your butt nekkid.

[Enki]

the tech digitises and then records stuff, its what it does, it cant not do that.. railing against privacy destruction is like railing against the weather.

best you could hope for, and this is as unrealistic a hope as any, is that the government is made as transparent as all the rest ofus - its like a nudist colony now, so its uncomfortable having clothed perves around when your butt nekkid.

It's sort of happening. We'll see if they are able to crack down on the whistleblowers or not.