Pope Up

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Endovelico
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Endovelico »

Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/03/pope-f ... -mohammed/
Pope Francis’ run-in with Benedict XVI over the Prophet Mohammed
By Alasdair Baverstock

In 2005, then Pope Benedict quoted from an obscure medieval text which declared that the Prophet Mohammed, founder of the Islamic faith, was “evil and inhuman”, enraging the Muslim population and causing attacks on churches throughout the world before an apology was issued.

Reacting within days to the statements, speaking through a spokesman to Newsweek Argentina, then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio declared his “unhappiness” with the statements, made at the University of Regensburg in Germany, and encouraged many of his subordinates with the Church to do the same.

“Pope Benedict’s statement don’t reflect my own opinions”, the then Archbishop of Buenos Aires declared. “These statements will serve to destroy in 20 seconds the careful construction of a relationship with Islam that Pope John Paul II built over the last twenty years”.

The Vatican reacted quickly, removing one subordinate, Joaquín Piña the Archbishop of Puerto Iguazú from his post within four days of his making similar statements to the Argentine national media, sending a clear statement to Cardinal Bergoglio that he would be next should he choose to persist.

Reacting to the threats from Rome, Cardinal Bergoglio cancelled his plans to fly to Rome, choosing to boycott the second synod that Pope Benedict had called during his tenure as pontiff.

“The only thing that didn’t happen to Bergoglio was being removed from his post”, wrote investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky in his column in left-wing daily newspaper Página/24. “The Vatican was very quick to react.”
This incident shows clearly some of the things which make the difference between being German or being "Latino"...
Stereotype much?
No. Scientific method. Observation and inference. You should have heard about it...
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Enki
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Enki »

Pope Benedict doesn't strike me as such a bad guy. He seems more like a cranky academic. Not charismatic or an inspiring leader. This Pope Francis fellow has me excited for the future of the church. Anyone that takes the name Francis against tradition is signalling his willingness to go large and in the right direction.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
noddy
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Re: Pope Up

Post by noddy »

Image

the gathering for benedict versus francis... subtle cultural change may or may not be visible.
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Zack Morris
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Zack Morris »

Endovelico wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:Unless he aggressively expands the role of women in the Church (it's probably a bit much to hope for allowing them to join the priesthood), all his work will be for naught and the Church will continue to circle the toilet bowl of history.
In your opinion what role should women have in the Church?
Same as men: full eligibility for any role in the hierarchy of priests, including the papacy. I can't think of a single reason why not. In the United States, religious women (nuns) seem to be the only part of the Catholic Church still concerned with living a Christ-like life. I think the Church would be better off run by a devoted, warm, motherly figure rather than the detached, cold fathers it has always had.

In fact, maybe men should be made ineligible for the cloth for some period of time until the Church can be revitalized and restored by female leadership.
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Endovelico
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Endovelico »

Zack Morris wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:Unless he aggressively expands the role of women in the Church (it's probably a bit much to hope for allowing them to join the priesthood), all his work will be for naught and the Church will continue to circle the toilet bowl of history.
In your opinion what role should women have in the Church?
Same as men: full eligibility for any role in the hierarchy of priests, including the papacy. I can't think of a single reason why not. In the United States, religious women (nuns) seem to be the only part of the Catholic Church still concerned with living a Christ-like life. I think the Church would be better off run by a devoted, warm, motherly figure rather than the detached, cold fathers it has always had.

In fact, maybe men should be made ineligible for the cloth for some period of time until the Church can be revitalized and restored by female leadership.
It may be my moderate misogyny showing, but I don't see any particular advantage to being led by women. Women leaders are at least as bad as men, although in different ways. Margaret Thatcher and Angela Merkel are two particularly good examples of how awful women leaders can be... Not to mention Sarah Palin... :twisted:
Ibrahim
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Ibrahim »

The no-women-priests thing is a big theological/doctrinal deal for them. Its difficult to imagine them changing their stance on that, regardless of how it offends modern sensibilities. Other things, like imposed celibacy for priests or institutional objection to contraceptives, are discretional matters that they could easily change. Francis has apprently made statements about allowing the use of contraceptives in certain circumstances (specifically to combat disease in Africa), and should he take action on that it would easily be the most positive change made by the Catholic church in my lifetime.

Women priests? Anglicans have them and that's so close to Catholicism, at least in my neck of the woods. ;)
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Typhoon
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Typhoon »

Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/03/pope-f ... -mohammed/
Pope Francis’ run-in with Benedict XVI over the Prophet Mohammed
By Alasdair Baverstock

In 2005, then Pope Benedict quoted from an obscure medieval text which declared that the Prophet Mohammed, founder of the Islamic faith, was “evil and inhuman”, enraging the Muslim population and causing attacks on churches throughout the world before an apology was issued.

Reacting within days to the statements, speaking through a spokesman to Newsweek Argentina, then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio declared his “unhappiness” with the statements, made at the University of Regensburg in Germany, and encouraged many of his subordinates with the Church to do the same.

“Pope Benedict’s statement don’t reflect my own opinions”, the then Archbishop of Buenos Aires declared. “These statements will serve to destroy in 20 seconds the careful construction of a relationship with Islam that Pope John Paul II built over the last twenty years”.

The Vatican reacted quickly, removing one subordinate, Joaquín Piña the Archbishop of Puerto Iguazú from his post within four days of his making similar statements to the Argentine national media, sending a clear statement to Cardinal Bergoglio that he would be next should he choose to persist.

Reacting to the threats from Rome, Cardinal Bergoglio cancelled his plans to fly to Rome, choosing to boycott the second synod that Pope Benedict had called during his tenure as pontiff.

“The only thing that didn’t happen to Bergoglio was being removed from his post”, wrote investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky in his column in left-wing daily newspaper Página/24. “The Vatican was very quick to react.”
This incident shows clearly some of the things which make the difference between being German or being "Latino"...
Stereotype much?
No. Scientific method. Observation and inference. You should have heard about it...
Nothing scientific about stereotyping.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Endovelico
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Endovelico »

Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/03/pope-f ... -mohammed/
Pope Francis’ run-in with Benedict XVI over the Prophet Mohammed
By Alasdair Baverstock

In 2005, then Pope Benedict quoted from an obscure medieval text which declared that the Prophet Mohammed, founder of the Islamic faith, was “evil and inhuman”, enraging the Muslim population and causing attacks on churches throughout the world before an apology was issued.

Reacting within days to the statements, speaking through a spokesman to Newsweek Argentina, then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio declared his “unhappiness” with the statements, made at the University of Regensburg in Germany, and encouraged many of his subordinates with the Church to do the same.

“Pope Benedict’s statement don’t reflect my own opinions”, the then Archbishop of Buenos Aires declared. “These statements will serve to destroy in 20 seconds the careful construction of a relationship with Islam that Pope John Paul II built over the last twenty years”.

The Vatican reacted quickly, removing one subordinate, Joaquín Piña the Archbishop of Puerto Iguazú from his post within four days of his making similar statements to the Argentine national media, sending a clear statement to Cardinal Bergoglio that he would be next should he choose to persist.

Reacting to the threats from Rome, Cardinal Bergoglio cancelled his plans to fly to Rome, choosing to boycott the second synod that Pope Benedict had called during his tenure as pontiff.

“The only thing that didn’t happen to Bergoglio was being removed from his post”, wrote investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky in his column in left-wing daily newspaper Página/24. “The Vatican was very quick to react.”
This incident shows clearly some of the things which make the difference between being German or being "Latino"...
Stereotype much?
No. Scientific method. Observation and inference. You should have heard about it...
Nothing scientific about stereotyping.
Stereotype: a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.

It doesn't mean it is essentially wrong. It may be oversimplified, but this may be a legitimate manner to make more visible certain traits of a person or group. In economics all models are simplifications of the reality, in order to make certain phenomena more easily understood. Of course not all Germans are arrogant and insensitive, but those traits appear often enough to allow for a certain generalization. Specially as it helps understanding some actions or policies carried out by Germany.
Ibrahim
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Ibrahim »

I don't know, it just seems like if I was asked to come up with a series of criticisms of the Benedict XVI papacy I wouldn't put "was German" on the list. Bigger fish to fry.
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Endovelico
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Endovelico »

Ibrahim wrote:I don't know, it just seems like if I was asked to come up with a series of criticisms of the Benedict XVI papacy I wouldn't put "was German" on the list. Bigger fish to fry.
No, but the fact that he was German may help understanding some of his views and positions.
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Enki
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Enki »

Pope Francis: US was 'stupid' for shuffling around pedophile priests instead of firing them.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/p ... -1.1295178
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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Enki
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Enki »

I think that the women should just form the Bene Gesserit and leave the Catholic church alone. ;)
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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Azrael
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Re: Pope Up

Post by Azrael »

As bishop in Argentina, Pope Francis launched sainthood process for priests murdered by Argentine junta.

This is the same junta that Reagan supported and Thatcher defeated and humiliated in the Falkland Islands.

Helping to restore democracy to Argentina may have been Thatcher's best achievement, even if she didn't necessarily set out to do so.
cultivate a white rose
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