Obama, servant of evil

This too shall pass.
Demon of Undoing
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Demon of Undoing »

1) He can not possibly prove, not can any opposition disprove, that the weapons used were not his. This is why I am laughing at the very idea of " evidence". There is no evidence between nations, only strength of position, and there are many many ways to make that happen. Enough so that reliance on shallow concepts as mere truth and malleable evidence is unnescesary.

2) If false flag operations are in play, then all bets are off. And so are the gloves. This is CW we are talking about.
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Mr. Perfect »

It's all over. There will be no inspections, no weapons hand overs, everyone will drop this like a hot potato and move on with life. Obama was teabagged, CW use was tolerated, and Putin became the most powerful head of state in the world. It's over.

Benghazi will be followed up on more than this (Benghazi arrests= 0).
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Demon of Undoing
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Demon of Undoing »

Except this will have consequences. It's not just He-Man WWE politics. Next time a situation is under contention between Russia and the US, and stakes are ( at least locally) high, who do you tink the unaligned and uncertain are going to bet on? Contrary to opinion here, nobody on the planet thinks we and Russia are on the same team, and for good reason. If most of these poor deluded bastards still bet on the US for being a reliable friend, well, fool me once, shame on me. Twice, its on you, and it's been a assload more than twice. But that's neither here nor there.

What's pertinent is that the next time our interests collide ( probably tomorrow ), who do you think will be assumed to have the upper hand? Which nations's interests are likely to be furthered if there is a perception that Putin is going to flat outmaneuver Obama/Kerry at every turn? Whether you like it or not, it's not the pseudotoughguy Republicans that want a new Undertaker. People will back the strongest horse, most people not just Republicans, and this is a race that matters. To the evolved urbanites that care nothing of ego and for whom saving face is childish, this isn't all that real of a calculus. But to the other six billion or so on the planet, its a primary consideration. Entire cultures have built themselves around public perception, and for very good reason.

Even if perception is all that was lost, and it most certainly was not. Russia gains ability to keep Assad free from any interference at all at this point. This means the Gulf states supporting the insurgency lose position, possibly picking up internal threats. Gulf oil raises global oil prices while production from the region becomes that much more unpredictable. Russian oil soars in commensurate amounts, Russia is made stronger, the US pays more at the pump with serious economic consequences, and all Ivan had to do was be slightly smarter than Kerry/ Obama.

Apparently, that's pretty goddamn easy to do. Just wait for Frick and Frack to get their junk in a mop bucket at the next press conference due to oral incontinence. Cheap victory for Ivan with a huge payoff.

Fact is, our evolved and enlightened Obamaphiles may be done with the history of the Cold War, but the history of the Cold War is not done with you.
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monster_gardener
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Obama Should Resign........

Post by monster_gardener »

Azrael wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Obama came to power, Democratic party nominating him, the political elite and establishment accepting him, by committing to follow the "grand plan" for ME which was put in motion by Carter's time .. he would be W. Bush continuation in foreign policy

In that sense, military attack on Syria was pre-programmed long ago

but

looks to me

unless I mistaken

Obama looking for all excuses he can grab, to backtrack from disaster .. makes sense, as fact on the ground have changed and other facts now prevail than 1980's




.
I rarely agree with HP but he's right here. Somebody has a slipknot tied around Obama's balls and they are yanking on the string pretty hard.
What would you have done?

If Obama hadn't made any threats, Assad could act with impunity. Forget the taboo against chemical weapons.

If Obama had fired the missiles, they wouldn't have destroyed all of the chemical weapons. Some of the weapons could have been released by accident, killing innocent people. Assad may have said "what the hell" and launched even more chemical attacks. Assad's regime could have fallen -- to Al Qaeda.

So what would you have done?

Does it hurt your feelings so much seeing Putin look clever? Poor thing.

Pardon me, but I'm more concerned about the children of Syria than your hurt feelings.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azrael.

If Obama hadn't made any threats, Assad could act with impunity.
The problem was the "red line" threat....

Say ASSad should step down all you want as long as no action is promised and you are just expressing your opinion........

Even if you are the President of the United States rather the Present Dunce ;) like Obama :roll:


Obama was a twit to make make a threat he effectively could not keep........

Might have been better if he had put that bright Red Line around his mouth before a press conference ;) :twisted: :lol:


Recalling the Art of War thread......

Obama is such an Arrogant, Lazy, Lying, Duty Station Deserting, Mouthy Son of a Bitch Eater that he did not know himself and US....

Let alone know Syria & Russia..........

Doomed to defeat.....
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle”
Hat Tip to Bezerk Savant Demon of Undoing...........

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2208#p59806


Past time for Obama to resign.......

We might get more respect as a nation with Joe Biden as President......... :shock: ;) :twisted: :lol: :roll:

NOTE: Lest anyone doubt that having Biden as President might be be better, Biden has the advantage that as a "white guy" we could impeach him without being considered "racists" ;) :twisted: :lol: :roll:
Last edited by monster_gardener on Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Mr. Perfect »

The fix is in, Assad has one week to declare 5 thimblefulls of CW and then a year to destroy the 5 thimblefulls. Peace in our time. Russia successfully defends their client state.
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Zack Morris
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Zack Morris »

Demon of Undoing wrote: What's pertinent is that the next time our interests collide ( probably tomorrow ), who do you think will be assumed to have the upper hand? Which nations's interests are likely to be furthered if there is a perception that Putin is going to flat outmaneuver Obama/Kerry at every turn? Whether you like it or not, it's not the pseudotoughguy Republicans that want a new Undertaker. People will back the strongest horse, most people not just Republicans, and this is a race that matters. To the evolved urbanites that care nothing of ego and for whom saving face is childish, this isn't all that real of a calculus. But to the other six billion or so on the planet, its a primary consideration. Entire cultures have built themselves around public perception, and for very good reason.
It doesn't matter one iota. Who did you think had the upper hand here two months ago? What did you think was going to happen in light of Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, etc.? And it didn't happen. Next time, you'll be just as wrong trying to predict the future.

I don't see what the big deal is. This situation is playing out much better than I expected. I thought we were going to war but now we don't have to and the Russians get to take responsibility for handling the Syria crisis (and drawing the ire of jihadists for backing the regime). Score!

Mr. P said our national interest was avoiding meddling in the middle east and adhering to the Milo doctrine. His wish was granted so now he has to pretend this is somehow a disaster. No surprise there: Karl Rove argued forcefully for military intervention and then did an about face when he realized it might actually happen. And now that it's off again, I have a feeling he's going to be displeased... again.

Maybe it's just because Mr. P lives in Washington and that's how they roll up there: everything that's cool is really uncool. It's been that way since at least the days of Cobain.
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Mr. Perfect »

This may be way too much of an adult conversation for some here, in no way is the US threatening war and signing onto yet another weapons inspection process getting out of the middle east, it simply gets us into the middle east further. I think this event was far too multidimensional for a lot of people here.
I don't see what the big deal is. This situation is playing out much better than I expected. I thought we were going to war but now we don't have to
We never had to in the first place until Obama opened his big mouth.
and the Russians get to take responsibility for handling the Syria crisis (and drawing the ire of jihadists for backing the regime). Score!
If you think Obama intended himself to lose status as the leading head of state of the globe then it was a great score. Congratulations in cuckolding yourself. If you want me to be happy I'll be happy. Yay cuckold!
Mr. P said our national interest was avoiding meddling in the middle east and adhering to the Milo doctrine.
Yup.
His wish was granted
Nope.
so now he has to pretend this is somehow a disaster.
I wouldn't say it's a disaster unless I wanted Obama to be the most powerful head of state in the world. I'm more like a neutral broadcaster watching the NE Patriots getting upset in the Super Bowl.
No surprise there: Karl Rove argued forcefully for military intervention and then did an about face when he realized it might actually happen. And now that it's off again, I have a feeling he's going to be displeased... again.
Whatever you think you heard Karl Rove say is as relevant as a new Twisted Sister album but OTOH we get to hear Obama embrace and defend American exceptionalism. Why do you think he's doing that Zack Morris. What's it like embracing US provincialism and being the standard bearer. What's it feel like. Being provincial.
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Demon of Undoing
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Demon of Undoing »

It doesn't matter one iota. Who did you think had the upper hand here two months ago? What did you think was going to happen in light of Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, etc.? And it didn't happen. Next time, you'll be just as wrong trying to predict the future.
Well, I tell you one thing. I didn't expect Obama's genius would lead to an own- goal, but that's what I get for disregarding Einstein's opinion on human stupidity.

Who did I think had the upper hand two months ago? Probably the jihadists, as either way it goes with FSA or the government, they get to play the winners. Now, I think anything not painted government colors is going to likely eat some CW, or get swamped by more Russian involvement. Truly didn't expect Obama to sanction the gassing of kids and propping up a Russian client state. Really did not expect that, you got me there.

You do understand that I think we should either STFU about the whole thing, or build a fence and sell tickets, right? No outcome presented is a good one. I just think that, in light of Obama being president and all, he should do as little as possible to make us actually lose ground as possible. I agree that this is sort of a larger pattern in his MidEast dealings, but I'm just thinking optimally here.
I don't see what the big deal is. This situation is playing out much better than I expected. I thought we were going to war but now we don't have to and the Russians get to take responsibility for handling the Syria crisis (and drawing the ire of jihadists for backing the regime). Score!
Um, we had this without Obama opening his mouth, except before, Putin took partial blame for supporting Assad. Now he looks like the hero that will both mentor Assad to a consequence- free environment, AND save Obama/ America from his own stupid. You have odd notions of how goals are made.

Mr. P said our national interest was avoiding meddling in the middle east and adhering to the Milo doctrine. His wish was granted so now he has to pretend this is somehow a disaster.
If I pay you for something I already have, then you get credit for doing nothing- to say nothing of de facto sanctioning and protecting a known evil- I call that a disaster ( relatively speaking).
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.



Obama doing his best to disengage from Middle Eastern quicksand .. idea seems 2B, ME and it's Oil & Gas, should be Chinese (and European) headache in the future

Germans happy as they pay for everything (Oil & Gas) French secured their free Oil & Gas in Libya (neither metered nor paid for), Brits still have their hands in
the pocket of Sheiks and Amirs

What puzzles me, what McCain& Graham are all about ? ? ? :)


.

"What concerns us most is that our friends and enemies will take the same lessons from this agreement: They see it as an act of provocative weakness on America's part," Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said in a joint statement. "We cannot imagine a worse signal to send to Iran as it continues its push for a nuclear weapon."

.



:lol: :lol:



Somebody should tell McCain & Graham Iran no enemy of America .. In Iraq and Afghanistan (and soon in Central Asia and KavKaz) without Iranian help America still would be to the eyeball in sh*it


McCain & Graham still living in 60's .. have not realized things have changed





.
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Obama, Sanctimonius Servant of Evil with Arrogant Tongue....

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.



Obama doing his best to disengage from Middle Eastern quicksand .. idea seems 2B, ME and it's Oil & Gas, should be Chinese (and European) headache in the future

Germans happy as they pay for everything (Oil & Gas) French secured their free Oil & Gas in Libya (neither metered nor paid for), Brits still have their hands in
the pocket of Sheiks and Amirs

What puzzles me, what McCain& Graham are all about ? ? ? :)


.

"What concerns us most is that our friends and enemies will take the same lessons from this agreement: They see it as an act of provocative weakness on America's part," Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said in a joint statement. "We cannot imagine a worse signal to send to Iran as it continues its push for a nuclear weapon."

.



:lol: :lol:



Somebody should tell McCain & Graham Iran no enemy of America .. In Iraq and Afghanistan (and soon in Central Asia and KavKaz) without Iranian help America still would be to the eyeball in sh*it


McCain & Graham still living in 60's .. have not realized things have changed





.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

Obama doing his best to disengage from Middle Eastern quicksand ..
Maybe..........

Except maybe at least when his arrogant tongue and sanctimonious proclivities get the better of him...

Would not surprise me too much if Arrogant, Lying (probably to himself as well as others), Lazy, Duty Station Deserting, Mouthy, Son of a Bitch Eater Obama thought he was the smartest & most moral man in the world or close to it........ ;) :twisted: :lol: :roll:

Perhaps he still thinks that........ :roll:
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Obama, Sanctimonius Servant of Evil with Arrogant Tongue

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.



Obama doing his best to disengage from Middle Eastern quicksand .. idea seems 2B, ME and it's Oil & Gas, should be Chinese (and European) headache in the future

Germans happy as they pay for everything (Oil & Gas) French secured their free Oil & Gas in Libya (neither metered nor paid for), Brits still have their hands in
the pocket of Sheiks and Amirs

What puzzles me, what McCain& Graham are all about ? ? ? :)


.

"What concerns us most is that our friends and enemies will take the same lessons from this agreement: They see it as an act of provocative weakness on America's part," Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said in a joint statement. "We cannot imagine a worse signal to send to Iran as it continues its push for a nuclear weapon."

.



:lol: :lol:



Somebody should tell McCain & Graham Iran no enemy of America .. In Iraq and Afghanistan (and soon in Central Asia and KavKaz) without Iranian help America still would be to the eyeball in sh*it


McCain & Graham still living in 60's .. have not realized things have changed





.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

Obama doing his best to disengage from Middle Eastern quicksand ..
Maybe..........

Except maybe at least when his arrogant tongue and sanctimonious proclivities get the better of him...

Would not surprise me too much if Arrogant, Lying (probably to himself as well as others), Lazy, Duty Station Deserting, Mouthy, Son of a Bitch Eater Obama thought he was the smartest & most moral man in the world or close to it........ ;) :twisted: :lol: :roll:

Perhaps he still thinks that........ :roll:


.


Ted Turner said, Obama is the most intelligent and smartest of all American president since Franklin D. Roosevelt


I second Ted




.
Huxley
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Huxley »

Demon of Undoing wrote:So the idea is that Assad is going to give up his weapons under Russian supervision.

"Fox guarding the henhouse" comes close.

He's already putting terms and conditions on it. He's been handed a long, drawn out, political process. We said we'd get out of CWs under Nixon. We still have several thousand tons. We have really good excuses for that. Assad, as a smaller and poorer nation, will have more.

Assad's grand kids will still have them to use. Assuming he isn't beheaded on TV by Islamists.
Edward Luttwak disagrees:
Edward Luttwak wrote:Take It and Like It
Why Obama should be thrilled about the Russian chemical weapons deal.
BY EDWARD LUTTWAK | SEPTEMBER 10, 2013

Just when it seemed that President Obama's good intentions had trapped him in the ultimate no-win predicament, salvation has come to him -- from Moscow of all places. Despite his own over-active appointees -- including the famously interventionist ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power, and a vehement Secretary of State John Kerry -- Obama should promptly accept the Russian proposal. ...

... The Russian offer to identify, locate, and remove of all chemical weapons from Syria under international (read U.S.-Russian) supervision is a far better remedy than bombardment could ever be. True, the record of U.N. and other international inspectors hardly inspires confidence -- they might miss quite a few chemical warheads and bombs if they are hidden well enough. But that's no less true of any attempt to eliminate Syria's chemical weapons by bombing depots and bases -- some are bound to escape detection and destruction, not to mention the potential for a dangerous dispersal of chemical agents in a strike.

Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems that every possible argument for the bombing of Syria is totally overturned by the Russian offer. ...

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... al_weapons
Not sure what to make of this.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

We still don't know what kind of missiles Israel launched or who gave the order to take them out. That figures in here somewhere.
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Huxley
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Huxley »

"Scoring the Syria Deal"
Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel lose ground.
by Daniel Pipes | National Review Online | September 17, 2013
Daniel Pipes wrote:...We end with two ironies: The U.S.-Russian agreement does not solve the crisis, but delays and deepens it. Obama's almost nonchalant "red line" statement of a year ago was the obscure mistake that could precipitate the great foreign-policy fiasco of his presidency.
Ibrahim
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Ibrahim »

Huxley wrote:"Scoring the Syria Deal"
Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel lose ground.
by Daniel Pipes | National Review Online | September 17, 2013
Daniel Pipes wrote:...We end with two ironies: The U.S.-Russian agreement does not solve the crisis, but delays and deepens it. Obama's almost nonchalant "red line" statement of a year ago was the obscure mistake that could precipitate the great foreign-policy fiasco of his presidency.
This is an essentially stupid argument. He couldn't not intervene because he said "red line" a year ago, but he could not intervene because of Putin. The greatest fiasco would have been a war, so a fiasco was actually avoided, and the outcome is good for Pipes' personal biases in that the war goes on..

The real "great foreign-policy fiasco" of the presidency is the continuation of the policies of indefinite detention and murdering civilians. But Pipes is on board with all of that, so no complaints.
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Fiascos and Peace Prizes........

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:
Huxley wrote:"Scoring the Syria Deal"
Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel lose ground.
by Daniel Pipes | National Review Online | September 17, 2013
Daniel Pipes wrote:...We end with two ironies: The U.S.-Russian agreement does not solve the crisis, but delays and deepens it. Obama's almost nonchalant "red line" statement of a year ago was the obscure mistake that could precipitate the great foreign-policy fiasco of his presidency.
This is an essentially stupid argument. He couldn't not intervene because he said "red line" a year ago, but he could not intervene because of Putin. The greatest fiasco would have been a war, so a fiasco was actually avoided, and the outcome is good for Pipes' personal biases in that the war goes on..

The real "great foreign-policy fiasco" of the presidency is the continuation of the policies of indefinite detention and murdering civilians. But Pipes is on board with all of that, so no complaints.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.
This is an essentially stupid argument.
Nope.........

This is an essentially 'stupid' President......... ;) :lol: :roll:

Actually worse than stupid: Arrogant, Bloviating, Careless, Duty Station Deserting, Egotistical, Fatuous, Hypocritical, Incompetent except at Electioneering, Jerk, Klown, Lazy, Lying, Mouthy and Sanctimonious Son of a Bitch Eater..........

He couldn't not intervene because he said "red line" a year ago..........
Because he couldn't keep his arrogant mouth shut......... :roll:

The greatest fiasco would have been a war,
You may be right about this for the moment but I worry that Obama will find a way to top this one...........

so a fiasco was actually avoided,
Nope..........

This too is a fiasco........ So far for the moment smaller than what Obama planned to do but still a foreign policy fiasco... And not over yet.......

The real "great foreign-policy fiasco" of the presidency is the continuation of the policies of indefinite detention and murdering civilians.
FWIW that seems to work quite well for President Prince Vlad the Imprisoner ;) Putin who may well be on his way to a Nobel Peace Prize thanks to the "help" from Kerry & Obama :twisted: :roll:

A Peace Prize Putin will have actually earned....... In his own Peculiar way ;) :twisted: ......... Unlike Obama....... :roll:
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Ibrahim wrote: The real "great foreign-policy fiasco" of the presidency is the continuation of the policies of indefinite detention and murdering civilians. But Pipes is on board with all of that, so no complaints.
The only problem with that is: these policies aren't a fiasco, unless you are saying there is a right way to indefinitely detain and kill. That would be kinda loopy though. Now repugnant or reprehensible, well...
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Enki wrote:
This is a perfect example of American schoolyard jingoism that we use to look at all foreign policy. Can't let someone else in the negotiations come up with the idea we eventually run with.

I am wondering when you are going to register Republican because you seem to have doubled down on the idea that being perceived as manly is more important than you know, saving lives.


What exactly is "manly" about sovereignty?

And why the obsession with party politics?
Again, because what's important is that Obama looks like a MAN and Putin looks like a wimp. I know you grew up in the Cold War and all, but you should recognize that you've imbibed half a century's worth of bloviating muscular foreign policy that is arrogant and disrespectful, even hateful based on the fact that we can destroy anyone who disagrees with us.


You like to push this grand narrative of the Cold War which ignores that Russian-British/French and now American divide of the last 300 years. That's why we are in the middle east anyway. Let's call it the Colder War- what you are talking about is a chapter long closed.
The Cold War is over. Letting Putin be the hero and stopping chemical attacks in Syria and not having to commit troops or mass murder is a positive outcome.


Wasn't this the same Putin being vilified because of his anti-homosexual position; for the Pussy Galore Riot; for reactionary evil villain nationalism?

Are you making him a hero now? 'Cause sure why not; but it sorta flies in the face of how the "International Community" [which is one of those funny ways we say State Department] has been trying to position Putin and the Russians. One day we are told this Vladimir Puddin' is BAD BAD BAD for our tummies then the President says, "Nah, that Putin is like a yummy bowl of ice cream." Policy dissonance is a classic sign of weakness.
You certainly did treat this like Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers in your analysis. That's very true. Obama looks like a girly man, he was bent over and raped by Tsar Putin. Hahaha, pwned noob!

That isn't what actually happened. The US didn't want to go to war, he provided us an out. Obama and Putin negotiated a tense situation and if this outcome works it is in the best interests of everyone involved. Your WWE analysis of diplomacy is the great disease of the American mind when it comes to foreign policy. Maybe if Obama had thrown Putin into the trashcan you'd be more satisfied. Of course, Putin isn't our enemy and you obviously never got the memo.


I'd just like to stress to anyone reading this that I kept my first comment to glib toy references while Enki has gone with wrestling, machismo, dick-swinging, a weird sodomy assault (he attributed to my voice,) and a whole spiel about BEING A MAN RAWR and how he is beyond that.

Nowhere does he seem concerned that screwing up, even if only symbolically, leads to international instability time and time again. Wars have started, and power has shifted, over less.

As pointed out above, policy dissonance (which is what this "Putin got to play hero" propaganda is) is a terrible sign and suggests poor leadership. It's not that difficult; but instead we are supposed to swallow the narrative that the President is some sort of super ninja who is playing stratego like a champ. All I'm seeing is an administration which treats all situations as pre-ordained and the rest of the world as a toy. And no, you can't fall back on reasoning that all Presidents since the fall of the USSR have done the same, because we are not discussing "All Presidents" we are discussing this President. He's currently President, he gets the blame. So if he were that ninja that we can all believe in, why bring the green ranger to the playground only to lose the red one in the sandbox?
States have interests, this outcome aligns very well with American interests. That you want a statesmen who swings his dick around rather than look weak getting exactly what he wants...that's cool.


This isn't even a strawman.
I used to come to these fora because there was a higher level of discourse than what I could find outside of the milieu. These days this sort of lightweight bloviating is tedious to me. It's idiotic and not worth my time.


You must have the time of Methuselah to respond to something that isn't worth your time.
If it works:


To work within your wrestling analogies: We got 'Vlad PutinInAHeadlock in charge now and he's sending the Iron Sheik over to Syria to see if they'll hand over their stuff all in good time; only after the US is forced to make their own concessions: like Syria now demanding the US disable their own munitions and staying out of Syria for good.

So we give Putin the mic in the wrestling ring and then he and his cronies are only an if away from a heel turn and what was accomplished?
I mean seriously man, up your game, this post was ridiculous. I switched away and looked at other windows. I have one friend testifying before a committee on public corruption, another guy asking us to port our code we used for city elections over to Minneapolis/St. Paul elections, how to store solar heating for the winter using photovoltaics and underground thermal storage and I come over here for your critique of Barack Obama's people's elbow.
What does that have to do with anything? Your connections aren't impressive or relevant.


And I have to step up my game? You just attempted to pull credentials on me because your friend is testifying before a committee on public corruption and "another guy" asked to port your computer code.

Having never wished you anything good luck with your endeavors, I'm starting to think that between this and your wall-of-man-text above you are awfully intimidated by me. Why else would you go through all this effort to try to put me down for sharing an opinion? What can I say other than what I've said before about being a nobody.

All the ridicule in the world won't change that there really isn't anything unreasonable about my opinion on the matter. I'm sorry if that bugs you.
Last edited by NapLajoieonSteroids on Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

How could this situation even be analyzed? It's a clusterfuck. Everyone is involved and no one seems responsible for it.

We're supposed to be outraged about everything here- Syrian civil war, the President, Putin, oil, weapons, no democracy, Arabia, terrorism, Assad, Israel, Iran, European involvement and non-involvement, our own involvement and non-involvement, China's possible present and future involvement and non-involvement, the children, religion, history, 300 years of official policies, the status quo...

Where do you start?

If I were king of the world, maybe I'd like to see a bit less of it all- starting with the killing perhaps...but I'm not king of the world. These things are above my pay grade, as someone once said.

Nonc and Azari may have said it best when he suggested a lot of this is the machinations of a plan long unfolding. A lot of people are personally invested in it.

What is easy to see is that the same administration that likes to use Putin as a foil and an embodiment of all that is evil-y non-American freedom suddenly wants us to buy that they averted disaster by making him look good...that doesn't sound very well planned out. It's a bad move for the game these people seem invested in.

...in the end I'm reminded what someone once told me. He may have been a bit fey; his claims certainly were and I sloughed them off at the time but he may have been right. He warned me that electing Bush would lead to bad things in the middle east and irreparable harm to the status quo. As time goes on, with some of the things he intimated, he may have been a real prophet...

It's situations like Syria that only prophets can make sense of, but the chances are none are counted among the men and women involved. Prophets usually don't get that kind of publicity and power. I'm not a fan of the status quo; but lately, I've not been enthused by my own imaginative paths- I'm not that brilliant to figure the best endgame here. So where do we go when the only initiative for most of the planet right now is the bunker?
Ibrahim
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Ibrahim »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: The real "great foreign-policy fiasco" of the presidency is the continuation of the policies of indefinite detention and murdering civilians. But Pipes is on board with all of that, so no complaints.
The only problem with that is: these policies aren't a fiasco, unless you are saying there is a right way to indefinitely detain and kill. That would be kinda loopy though. Now repugnant or reprehensible, well...
I wasn't even talking about the moral dimension, which I've given up on. I'm talking about the gap between what the actions are intended to do (combat terrorism) and what they've actually done (increase terrorism, embarrass/shame the US). That's a fiasco.
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YMix
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by YMix »

Before you people go any further, I'd like to remind you that, back in 1990, Saddam Hussein remained in power despite a crushing military defeat and he got to keep whatever weapons he had. I don't remember anybody calling that a sign of weakness on the part of Bush the Elder or the US Government.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that Assad has so far is a delay, provided that he hands the weapons over. The US can still invade, especially if Assad attempts to avoid giving up his arsenal. And there's nothing that the Russian Federation can do, unless it feels like taking on the USA itself. As things stand now, Assad has a delay, a war-torn country that would take decades to rebuild, an insurgency that he may or may not defeat and an overall weaker internal position. Plus, he has let the Kurds run loose in the north and that's a can of worms in and of itself.

We've come a long way from the "100-hour ground campaign" to "nothing short of total defeat and removal of the country's leader and government". A 12-year binge on shock and awe. No wonder some of you see this as weakness on Obama's part. I'm curious: if the threat of total defeat and removal of leadership stops working, what will you do? How will you up the ante?
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Enki
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Enki »

YMix wrote:Before you people go any further, I'd like to remind you that, back in 1990, Saddam Hussein remained in power despite a crushing military defeat and he got to keep whatever weapons he had. I don't remember anybody calling that a sign of weakness on the part of Bush the Elder or the US Government.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that Assad has so far is a delay, provided that he hands the weapons over. The US can still invade, especially if Assad attempts to avoid giving up his arsenal. And there's nothing that the Russian Federation can do, unless it feels like taking on the USA itself. As things stand now, Assad has a delay, a war-torn country that would take decades to rebuild, an insurgency that he may or may not defeat and an overall weaker internal position. Plus, he has let the Kurds run loose in the north and that's a can of worms in and of itself.

We've come a long way from the "100-hour ground campaign" to "nothing short of total defeat and removal of the country's leader and government". A 12-year binge on shock and awe. No wonder some of you see this as weakness on Obama's part. I'm curious: if the threat of total defeat and removal of leadership stops working, what will you do? How will you up the ante?
Send someone to drag Assad out of his hole a la Saddam/Qaddafi
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Mr. Perfect
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by Mr. Perfect »

YMix wrote:Before you people go any further, I'd like to remind you that, back in 1990, Saddam Hussein remained in power despite a crushing military defeat and he got to keep whatever weapons he had. I don't remember anybody calling that a sign of weakness on the part of Bush the Elder or the US Government.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that Assad has so far is a delay, provided that he hands the weapons over. The US can still invade, especially if Assad attempts to avoid giving up his arsenal. And there's nothing that the Russian Federation can do, unless it feels like taking on the USA itself. As things stand now, Assad has a delay, a war-torn country that would take decades to rebuild, an insurgency that he may or may not defeat and an overall weaker internal position. Plus, he has let the Kurds run loose in the north and that's a can of worms in and of itself.

We've come a long way from the "100-hour ground campaign" to "nothing short of total defeat and removal of the country's leader and government". A 12-year binge on shock and awe. No wonder some of you see this as weakness on Obama's part. I'm curious: if the threat of total defeat and removal of leadership stops working, what will you do? How will you up the ante?
Wow. Ymix is full neocon now. The world is upside down. Say hello to Perle and Cheney.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Ibrahim wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: The real "great foreign-policy fiasco" of the presidency is the continuation of the policies of indefinite detention and murdering civilians. But Pipes is on board with all of that, so no complaints.
The only problem with that is: these policies aren't a fiasco, unless you are saying there is a right way to indefinitely detain and kill. That would be kinda loopy though. Now repugnant or reprehensible, well...
I wasn't even talking about the moral dimension, which I've given up on. I'm talking about the gap between what the actions are intended to do (combat terrorism) and what they've actually done (increase terrorism, embarrass/shame the US). That's a fiasco.
okay, I see your point
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Obama, servant of evil

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

YMix wrote:Before you people go any further, I'd like to remind you that, back in 1990, Saddam Hussein remained in power despite a crushing military defeat and he got to keep whatever weapons he had. I don't remember anybody calling that a sign of weakness on the part of Bush the Elder or the US Government.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that Assad has so far is a delay, provided that he hands the weapons over. The US can still invade, especially if Assad attempts to avoid giving up his arsenal. And there's nothing that the Russian Federation can do, unless it feels like taking on the USA itself. As things stand now, Assad has a delay, a war-torn country that would take decades to rebuild, an insurgency that he may or may not defeat and an overall weaker internal position. Plus, he has let the Kurds run loose in the north and that's a can of worms in and of itself.

We've come a long way from the "100-hour ground campaign" to "nothing short of total defeat and removal of the country's leader and government". A 12-year binge on shock and awe. No wonder some of you see this as weakness on Obama's part. I'm curious: if the threat of total defeat and removal of leadership stops working, what will you do? How will you up the ante?
What happened in the Gulf War was called a sign of weakness- those voices just weren't listened to; of course, they were referenced 13 years later when it came time to drag him out.

What I found really weak is how many of the generals and people in command at the time (according to their own written accounts) were more concerned about their how they were being perceived then actually accomplishing anything. The obsession with avoiding Vietnam was ridiculous to me; and hindsight tells us that the first Bush's decision dragged out the violence, instability, and military actions.

Was it actually a good, strong decision looking back?
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