Amnesty International drone report

[Ibrahim]

Erm, the Iraq War was popular at a rate of 20% by 2006, remind me when that war ended.

Wow, yeah, I guess the end of popular participation is maybe 1500 people saying something to a poll caller before dinner. You're totally right, we did our part.

Hope God agrees.

The size and vehemence of the anti-Iraq War movement is hard to square with their complete failure. The Bush II white house and the Obama white house seem totally insulated from public opinion on any of their conflicts. It still doesn't necessarily mean that Americans as a whole are "to blame," it may just mean that your demoncracy has decayed to the point where the executive doesn't feel like its answerable to the plebs for such minor details as international invasions, torture, murder robots, or global spy networks.


But when it comes to blowback we have to ask "what kind of world is this?" Well, it seems like its a world where innocent people are murdered based on their identity for ideological reasons that might not have anything to do with them personally. When asked what part they have played in such a world the US government of the past two administrations and beyond can say "oh we're big fans. Made it worse and enjoyed it."

[Typhoon]

Erm, the Iraq War was popular at a rate of 20% by 2006, remind me when that war ended.

Wow, yeah, I guess the end of popular participation is maybe 1500 people saying something to a poll caller before dinner. You're totally right, we did our part.

Hope God agrees.

The size and vehemence of the anti-Iraq War movement is hard to square with their complete failure. The Bush II white house and the Obama white house seem totally insulated from public opinion on any of their conflicts. It still doesn't necessarily mean that Americans as a whole are "to blame," it may just mean that your demoncracy has decayed to the point where the executive doesn't feel like its answerable to the plebs for such minor details as international invasions, torture, murder robots, or global spy networks.


But when it comes to blowback we have to ask "what kind of world is this?" Well, it seems like its a world where innocent people are murdered based on their identity for ideological reasons that might not have anything to do with them personally. When asked what part they have played in such a world the US government of the past two administrations and beyond can say "oh we're big fans. Made it worse and enjoyed it."

No draft makes it easier to manage the public relations.

[noddy]

Oh, I've followed all the usual prescriptions. The problem is that the great bulk of America wants it done. They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin.

We are not gotten anything that tangibly benefits the layman by bombing Pakistan.

not from pakistan in isolation but pakistan is an important cog in the machine of games you play in the middle east that keeps your petro dollar and energy distribution market control going.

[Ibrahim]

They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin

Other than Jihadi suppression,

Are you referring to the murder of civilians by your armed forces, which in turn increases the number of people willing to fight against the United States to seek revenge for the murder of their family members (i.e. "terrorists")? This doesn't seem like "repression." It seems like a pathetic and immoral failure.

I don't see much benefit from now being in Trash... oops I mean Afghanistan/Pakistan......

I'm guessing you've never been there? They can't be as much of a dump as Missouri.

Would happily sell Afghanistan to the Chinese Dragon Lords for $1

You don't control Afghanistan because your military failed in their occupation of that country, disgracing itself in the process.

on a quit claim deed stating that we/US will not come to the rescue of the Afghan hound dogs

More racist trash from m_g. Afghan people = dogs. Apparently m_g is mad at them collectively for not letting the US military invade their country and rape and murder their civilians with impunity. But then dehumanizing people and promoting genocide is classing m_g. Very on-brand.

[Ibrahim]

Erm, the Iraq War was popular at a rate of 20% by 2006, remind me when that war ended.

Wow, yeah, I guess the end of popular participation is maybe 1500 people saying something to a poll caller before dinner. You're totally right, we did our part.

Hope God agrees.

The size and vehemence of the anti-Iraq War movement is hard to square with their complete failure. The Bush II white house and the Obama white house seem totally insulated from public opinion on any of their conflicts. It still doesn't necessarily mean that Americans as a whole are "to blame," it may just mean that your demoncracy has decayed to the point where the executive doesn't feel like its answerable to the plebs for such minor details as international invasions, torture, murder robots, or global spy networks.


But when it comes to blowback we have to ask "what kind of world is this?" Well, it seems like its a world where innocent people are murdered based on their identity for ideological reasons that might not have anything to do with them personally. When asked what part they have played in such a world the US government of the past two administrations and beyond can say "oh we're big fans. Made it worse and enjoyed it."

No draft makes it easier to manage the public relations.

The separation between the military and the general population is only increasing. PMCs are a part of this, and only set to increase. That and those lovable robots.

[Mr. Perfect]

Oh, I've followed all the usual prescriptions. The problem is that the great bulk of America wants it done. They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin.

We are not gotten anything that tangibly benefits the layman by bombing Pakistan.

not from pakistan in isolation but pakistan is an important cog in the machine of games you play in the middle east that keeps your petro dollar and energy distribution market control going.

Not really.

[Mr. Perfect]

Are you referring to the murder of civilians by your armed forces, which in turn increases the number of people willing to fight against the United States to seek revenge for the murder of their family members (i.e. "terrorists")? This doesn't seem like "repression." It seems like a pathetic and immoral failure.

LIBYA

[noddy]

Oh, I've followed all the usual prescriptions. The problem is that the great bulk of America wants it done. They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin.

We are not gotten anything that tangibly benefits the layman by bombing Pakistan.

not from pakistan in isolation but pakistan is an important cog in the machine of games you play in the middle east that keeps your petro dollar and energy distribution market control going.

Not really.

so its purely a charity thing then ?

i was under the general impression that one of the big factors holding back massive local inflation for you lot was the international currency reserve market for energy transactions and if all those transactions didnt need such massive us dollar forex reserves then their would be tragic implications in regards your ever swelling money supply.

im not saying its the entire reason but it is part of the picture in regards maintaing the status quo in the middle east.

[Mr. Perfect]

Opinions vary.

I think that we have no benefit to being in those countries, but we are in them for a very complicated set of reasons few people really want to look at. Mostly Helot culling, R&D, and dreams of little moments of glory for CinCs.

[noddy]

the dark humour i have tactfully kept to myself in regards the helots is a rare moment of self control.

[noddy]

are you also then suggesting that if all the middle east energy trade happened via currency swaps and gold exchanges and everyone took a haircut on their american forex reserves then it wouldnt have some tragic outcomes for inflation in america ?

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm not sure I understand anything you said.

I will answer this way;

Traders are not economists, although they pick up the lingo over time but don't have the depth. See CS's postings of "chindit", I can't count how many people I've known like that in the community who talk a certain game but really don't get it. Being a near economist I have an advantage over that crowd and can decimate their worldview.

The same can be said of the "petrodollar" crowd, it's chasing nothing, they learned some words and if gave them a narcotic feeling and it makes them feel smart, but at the end of the day we buy oil from plenty of countries that we don't need to occupy or do 10,000 ninjas or whatever, and whether we trade in dollars or yak furs is of no consequence. That's not to say that there aren't policy makers who are under this impression, but that gets to the complexity part. There are lots of people who believe in dumb things who think they believe in smart things, and that's an ongoing problem.

Short answer if we traded in yak furs tomorrow the only problem would be the smell and liquidity.

[noddy]

aah, well perhaps i rattled out my thots a bit roughly, im not sure i see the petrodollar in quite the same terms as the conspiracy theorists.

the chinese "debt" in the udder thread and their massive holdings of american bonds and dollars, is this not the same discussion ?

i wasnt aware they did it all for the charity and love of america.

also, this isnt about facts or markets per se, of course you can just buy what you want on the open market and you dont *need* to play these games, this is about certain power structures (lets call them harvard democrats) and a status quo that keeps their show on the road.

[Mr. Perfect]

The Harvard Democrats get in their rooms and twist their moustaches to be sure, but I have a limit to how much I can spend on that. Simply put, there are many bad reasons to be in the ME and they seem to be popular. I don't really have a plan any more for dealing with that, may as well just enjoy the kafka, laugh and make fun of them.

[Hoosiernorm]

Considering the cooperation of the nations that allow landing strips, air space, intelligence (you think we collect intelligence on these targets by ourselves?), and are informed of actions prior to them being performed.

Yeah, it's all our fault.

[Ibrahim]

Considering the cooperation of the nations that allow landing strips, air space, intelligence (you think we collect intelligence on these targets by ourselves?), and are informed of actions prior to them being performed.

Yeah, it's all our fault.

Next time there is a shooting in South Chicago I want them to charge the miners who dug up the ore used to make the gun and bullets as accomplices.


But yes, the complicity of other governments, either coerced or enthusiastic, in these killings is a fact.

[Mr. Perfect]

Next time there is a shooting in South Chicago I want them to charge the miners who dug up the ore used to make the gun and bullets as accomplices.

The left has been trying to go after gun manufacturers for some time now.

But yes, the complicity of other governments, either coerced or enthusiastic, in these killings is a fact.

Hoosier has a fair point, and if you looked into it further, boy oh boy.

[Hoosiernorm]

Considering the cooperation of the nations that allow landing strips, air space, intelligence (you think we collect intelligence on these targets by ourselves?), and are informed of actions prior to them being performed.

Yeah, it's all our fault.

Next time there is a shooting in South Chicago I want them to charge the miners who dug up the ore used to make the gun and bullets as accomplices.


But yes, the complicity of other governments, either coerced or enthusiastic, in these killings is a fact.

Governments can provide lists to field agents who build action lists on targets. We do all the killing and the host government has very little political fallout. I'm sure the Whateveristan caucus can write a few nasty letters to the editor but politically there is not a single consequence to the local government. They buy a few T bills and we send the ruling family's kids to Harvard or Yale to teach them that we are right about how all of this is suppose to aid a global security agreement and we get further access into areas that we have no cultural ties to. It's a win win for everybody except the targets. Hell if they clear enough of them out they can start mining operations with refugee labor and mine the ore we use to kill them with.

[Ibrahim]

Considering the cooperation of the nations that allow landing strips, air space, intelligence (you think we collect intelligence on these targets by ourselves?), and are informed of actions prior to them being performed.

Yeah, it's all our fault.

Next time there is a shooting in South Chicago I want them to charge the miners who dug up the ore used to make the gun and bullets as accomplices.


But yes, the complicity of other governments, either coerced or enthusiastic, in these killings is a fact.

Governments can provide lists to field agents who build action lists on targets. We do all the killing and the host government has very little political fallout.

Going to have to disagree with you there. AQAP in Yemen and Saudi Arabia are after the regimes of both of those countries for their complicity or cooperation with the US government. Likewise the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Its getting so severe that the Saudis are starting to make anti-American statements at the UN, to try and tamp down domestic outrage. Also, the armed forces in SA and Yemen are mostly organized to suppress internal revolt, not to actually fight foreign enemies. In the case of SA the army is US armed and trained as well.

Whateveristan

Your military is killing people in these places, and you're paying for it. Might as well learn the names, right? Its like college football, knowing more about your rival's state helps with the insults if nothing else.

They buy a few T bills and we send the ruling family's kids to Harvard or Yale to teach them that we are right about how all of this is suppose to aid a global security agreement and we get further access into areas that we have no cultural ties to. It's a win win for everybody except the targets. Hell if they clear enough of them out they can start mining operations with refugee labor and mine the ore we use to kill them with.

You're right about this part. If they can avoid being lynched by their population or blown up by al-Qaeda then these leaders typically live like arch 80's Eurotrash.

[Doc]

Considering the cooperation of the nations that allow landing strips, air space, intelligence (you think we collect intelligence on these targets by ourselves?), and are informed of actions prior to them being performed.

Yeah, it's all our fault.

Next time there is a shooting in South Chicago I want them to charge the miners who dug up the ore used to make the gun and bullets as accomplices.


But yes, the complicity of other governments, either coerced or enthusiastic, in these killings is a fact.

Governments can provide lists to field agents who build action lists on targets. We do all the killing and the host government has very little political fallout.

Going to have to disagree with you there. AQAP in Yemen and Saudi Arabia are after the regimes of both of those countries for their complicity or cooperation with the US government. Likewise the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Its getting so severe that the Saudis are starting to make anti-American statements at the UN, to try and tamp down domestic outrage. Also, the armed forces in SA and Yemen are mostly organized to suppress internal revolt, not to actually fight foreign enemies. In the case of SA the army is US armed and trained as well.

Whateveristan

Your military is killing people in these places, and you're paying for it. Might as well learn the names, right? Its like college football, knowing more about your rival's state helps with the insults if nothing else.

They buy a few T bills and we send the ruling family's kids to Harvard or Yale to teach them that we are right about how all of this is suppose to aid a global security agreement and we get further access into areas that we have no cultural ties to. It's a win win for everybody except the targets. Hell if they clear enough of them out they can start mining operations with refugee labor and mine the ore we use to kill them with.

You're right about this part. If they can avoid being lynched by their population or blown up by al-Qaeda then these leaders typically live like arch 80's Eurotrash.

Ibrahim you are really full of it. But I suppose you already know that. At least I hope so for your sake.

[Ibrahim]

Considering the cooperation of the nations that allow landing strips, air space, intelligence (you think we collect intelligence on these targets by ourselves?), and are informed of actions prior to them being performed.

Yeah, it's all our fault.

Next time there is a shooting in South Chicago I want them to charge the miners who dug up the ore used to make the gun and bullets as accomplices.


But yes, the complicity of other governments, either coerced or enthusiastic, in these killings is a fact.

Governments can provide lists to field agents who build action lists on targets. We do all the killing and the host government has very little political fallout.

Going to have to disagree with you there. AQAP in Yemen and Saudi Arabia are after the regimes of both of those countries for their complicity or cooperation with the US government. Likewise the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Its getting so severe that the Saudis are starting to make anti-American statements at the UN, to try and tamp down domestic outrage. Also, the armed forces in SA and Yemen are mostly organized to suppress internal revolt, not to actually fight foreign enemies. In the case of SA the army is US armed and trained as well.

Whateveristan

Your military is killing people in these places, and you're paying for it. Might as well learn the names, right? Its like college football, knowing more about your rival's state helps with the insults if nothing else.

They buy a few T bills and we send the ruling family's kids to Harvard or Yale to teach them that we are right about how all of this is suppose to aid a global security agreement and we get further access into areas that we have no cultural ties to. It's a win win for everybody except the targets. Hell if they clear enough of them out they can start mining operations with refugee labor and mine the ore we use to kill them with.

You're right about this part. If they can avoid being lynched by their population or blown up by al-Qaeda then these leaders typically live like arch 80's Eurotrash.

Ibrahim you are really full of it. But I suppose you already know that. At least I hope so for your sake.

Nice claim. Care to back it up with anything but your highly dubious say-so?

Everything I've said is based on fact. I'd like to see you try and refute it.

[Hoosiernorm]

Your military is killing people in these places, and you're paying for it. Might as well learn the names, right? Its like college football, knowing more about your rival's state helps with the insults if nothing else.

It's not even at the level of a sporting event here. There are probably competitive stamp collectors who get more media attention than a few dozen civilians blown up by Uncle Sam's flying circus. The best kind of warfare is the kind you can ignore.

[Ibrahim]

Your military is killing people in these places, and you're paying for it. Might as well learn the names, right? Its like college football, knowing more about your rival's state helps with the insults if nothing else.

It's not even at the level of a sporting event here. There are probably competitive stamp collectors who get more media attention than a few dozen civilians blown up by Uncle Sam's flying circus. The best kind of warfare is the kind you can ignore.

You're probably right. I predict this kind of low-level killing will go on in a steady dribble forever.

Its kind of like how the ancient Phoenicians used to sacrifice a child every so often to ensure a good harvest and calm seas.

[Demon of Undoing]

Yeah, well, pagan rites wind up costing more than they're worth.

We should be careful that we don't pay the price.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Your military is killing people in these places, and you're paying for it. Might as well learn the names, right? Its like college football, knowing more about your rival's state helps with the insults if nothing else.

It's not even at the level of a sporting event here. There are probably competitive stamp collectors who get more media attention than a few dozen civilians blown up by Uncle Sam's flying circus. The best kind of warfare is the kind you can ignore.

You're probably right. I predict this kind of low-level killing will go on in a steady dribble forever.

Its kind of like how the ancient Phoenicians used to sacrifice a child every so often to ensure a good harvest and calm seas.

Astute. It is actually quite like that.