Amnesty International drone report

[Ibrahim]

The report is here:
http://dronespakistan.amnestyusa.org/

NYT summary here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/world ... eport.html


Basically what we all knew but the US government and apologists wouldn't admit.

[Mr. Perfect]

I wonder who is ultimately responsible.

[Demon of Undoing]

I wonder who is ultimately responsible.

The American people.

[Mr. Perfect]

Nope.

[Ibrahim]

The American people.

The "buck stops" at the president, who is CinC of the military and who, we are told, personally signs off on some or all of these strikes. There is a good argument for collective responsibility, but that inevitably leads to collective punishment, which I reject on ethical and theological grounds.

But what can safely say is that terrorists are created by the drone program, and should one of them successfully stage a reprisal attack on Americans or within the United States it will be random people and not the president or senior military figures who suffer as a result. Those in power are insulated from blowback by layer upon layer of lesser mortals.

[noddy]

we are but moments away from drone strikes being used domestically, im sure the american people will have a more concrete understanding of them soon enough.

[Ibrahim]

we are but moments away from drone strikes being used domestically, im sure the american people will have a more concrete understanding of them soon enough.

I've been saying this for some time. They've already killed US citizens, and they're already using them domestically for surveillance. Its not long now.

[Mr. Perfect]

The American people.

The "buck stops" at the president, who is CinC of the military and who, we are told, personally signs off on some or all of these strikes. There is a good argument for collective responsibility, but that inevitably leads to collective punishment, which I reject on ethical and theological grounds.

But what can safely say is that terrorists are created by the drone program, and should one of them successfully stage a reprisal attack on Americans or within the United States it will be random people and not the president or senior military figures who suffer as a result. Those in power are insulated from blowback by layer upon layer of lesser mortals.

Interestingly obama voters are the most likely targets of terrorism, by far.

[Mr. Perfect]

we are but moments away from drone strikes being used domestically, im sure the american people will have a more concrete understanding of them soon enough.

I expect obama to be more popular as a result.

[Ibrahim]

More good news: drone operators suffer PTSD just like the old-fashioned American soldiers who kill people in person.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/23/us/dr ... l?on.cnn=1

Report: Former drone operator shares his inner torment

(CNN) -- Years of aiming missiles at people on the other side of the world left Brandon Bryant a broken man.

In an interview with the magazine GQ, Bryant recounts some of the grisly scenes he watched unfold on his monitor as an Air Force drone operator.

In grimly vivid detail, he talks about the first time he killed somebody, in early 2007.

He was sitting in a control station on an Air Force base in Nevada. His three victims were walking on a dirt road in Afghanistan.

After the Hellfire missile fired from the drone struck the three men, Bryant watched the aftermath on his infrared display.

"The smoke clears, and there's pieces of the two guys around the crater. And there's this guy over here, and he's missing his right leg above his knee," he says in the article in the November issue of GQ.

"He's holding it, and he's rolling around, and the blood is squirting out of his leg, and it's hitting the ground, and it's hot. His blood is hot," Bryant says. "But when it hits the ground, it starts to cool off; the pool cools fast. It took him a long time to die. I just watched him. I watched him become the same color as the ground he was lying on."

...

Bryant's interview gives a different perspective on the drone program.

The GQ article provides a detailed study of his time as a drone operative, his decision in 2011 to quit and the post-traumatic stress disorder that followed.

Bryant says that during his time monitoring drones' cameras and aiming its laser targeting system, he became numb and carried out the job in "zombie mode."

When he left the Air Force in the spring of 2011 -- after nearly six years -- he says he turned down a $109,000 bonus to continue operating the drones.

He was given a document totaling the number of people killed in missions in which he'd participated in some form during close to 6,000 hours of flight time.

The overall number of 1,626, he says, "made me sick to my stomach."

[Mr. Perfect]

10,000 ninjas.

[Enki]

The American people.

The "buck stops" at the president, who is CinC of the military and who, we are told, personally signs off on some or all of these strikes. There is a good argument for collective responsibility, but that inevitably leads to collective punishment, which I reject on ethical and theological grounds.

But what can safely say is that terrorists are created by the drone program, and should one of them successfully stage a reprisal attack on Americans or within the United States it will be random people and not the president or senior military figures who suffer as a result. Those in power are insulated from blowback by layer upon layer of lesser mortals.

Don't worry, we have that one covered. We'll blame Islamism and radical Jihadism and all that kind of stuff. For the first couple of years while all of the policies are being put into place it will be considered dangerously unpatriotic to even suggest that it might be blowback.

[Ibrahim]

The American people.

The "buck stops" at the president, who is CinC of the military and who, we are told, personally signs off on some or all of these strikes. There is a good argument for collective responsibility, but that inevitably leads to collective punishment, which I reject on ethical and theological grounds.

But what can safely say is that terrorists are created by the drone program, and should one of them successfully stage a reprisal attack on Americans or within the United States it will be random people and not the president or senior military figures who suffer as a result. Those in power are insulated from blowback by layer upon layer of lesser mortals.

Don't worry, we have that one covered. We'll blame Islamism and radical Jihadism and all that kind of stuff. For the first couple of years while all of the policies are being put into place it will be considered dangerously unpatriotic to even suggest that it might be blowback.

This is a pretty solid plan to be honest. Worked for Mubarak for decades. Still working for the government of Israel.

[Mr. Perfect]

Don't worry, we have that one covered. We'll blame Islamism and radical Jihadism and all that kind of stuff. For the first couple of years while all of the policies are being put into place it will be considered dangerously unpatriotic to even suggest that it might be blowback.

10,000 ninjas.

Isn't it interesting that obama voters will be the prime targets for blowback terrorism? They don't even seem to mind.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

10,000 ninjas??2?.........

You'll have to settle for 1,000 homo DJ's:

Xjho-zVgDXo

[noddy]

worth a shot, deploy the dubstep dodgers.

[Demon of Undoing]

Nope. Still sticking with the American people. If the people wanted it stopped it would stop tomorrow. All are, or will be, punished.

[Mr. Perfect]

Erm, the Iraq War was popular at a rate of 20% by 2006, remind me when that war ended.

[Demon of Undoing]

Erm, the Iraq War was popular at a rate of 20% by 2006, remind me when that war ended.

Wow, yeah, I guess the end of popular participation is maybe 1500 people saying something to a poll caller before dinner. You're totally right, we did our part.

Hope God agrees.

[monster_gardener]

Erm, the Iraq War was popular at a rate of 20% by 2006, remind me when that war ended.

Wow, yeah, I guess the end of popular participation is maybe 1500 people saying something to a poll caller before dinner. You're totally right, we did our part.

Hope God agrees.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Demon of Undoing.

FWIW if you are opposed to drones of the US Predator type or Islamic BioDrones of the Tamerlan & Jokar Tsarnev type,

You can contact the White House and express your opinion on what to do.....

Comments: 202-456-1111. Switchboard: 202-456-1414. TTY/TTD. Comments: 202-456-6213.

Call your congressperson and senators at (202) 224-3121 (U.S. Capitol Switchboard)

I also recommend calling Senator Rand Paul and expressing support for Senator Paul using a filibuster to force the Creature currently in the White House and his evil henchman Erich Holder to come clean on the Predator type drones.....

On March 6–7, 2013, Paul engaged in a talking filibuster to block voting on the nomination of John O. Brennan as the Director of the CIA, questioning Barack Obama and his administration's use of drones, and the stated legal justification for hypothetical lethal use within the United States.
Rand Paul speaking during his filibuster.

Paul held the floor for 12 hours and 52 minutes,[100] at times ceding to several other Republican senators as well as one Democratic senator, Ron Wyden, who joined in questioning the use of drones and related topics.[101][102] Paul noted the purpose of the filibuster was mostly regarding drone policy, particularly usage on noncombatants on U.S. soil. He argued that the language administration officials had used when questioned over that potential usage of drones was unclear, and could potentially lead to a slippery slope where citizens could be targeted merely for expressing views different from those of the president. He asked the Obama administration to agree that they would not target noncombatants on U.S. soil.[103] Attorney General Eric Holder stated in reply that the President does not have the authority to use weaponized drones within the U.S. to kill, without due process, Americans not engaged in combat. Paul said that he was "quite happy" with the response.[104] Paul also said that he was amazed by the support he had received from a wide range of Americans and from fellow members of Congress. Even Harry Reid, the leader of the Senate Democrats, had expressed some praise for Paul.[105][106]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul# ... er_history

Senator Paul's phone number is: 202-224-4343

http://www.paul.senate.gov/?p=contact

Don't say it can't be done.......

It helped stop the Creature currently in the White House from bombing Syria so far..........

[Demon of Undoing]

Oh, I've followed all the usual prescriptions. The problem is that the great bulk of America wants it done. They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin.

[Mr. Perfect]

Nothing is gotten from those activities. That's what takes it beyond Kafka.

The problem with your position is twofold, 1) there is a man who gets up in the morning and is handed a list of possible targets to strike, the list comes to him by his directive, and then he alone looks at the list and he alone decides which targets are worthwhile, and then he alone gives the order for people to die, with very few people even aware this is going on. And he does it day in and day out, it is part of his daily routine and is a part of who he is as a person. It has become him. Then he goes on TV and says there is no war on terror and condemns fear politics while he spies on everyone and molests them at the airport.

Your proposal completely exonerates this individual.

2) Your attempt at collective guilt falls into your typical pitfall the fallacy of the false average. You take good people and average them with bad people and in Clintonian triangulation condemn both houses in order to try to establish some sort of bizarre non-confrontation with the bad guys.

Polls show liberal Democrats love this stuff, the GOP side much much less. But you won't point that out. False average.

[monster_gardener]

Oh, I've followed all the usual prescriptions. The problem is that the great bulk of America wants it done. They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin.

Thank You VERY Much for your reply, Bezerk Savant Demon of Undoing,

Oh, I've followed all the usual prescriptions.

Excellent. If you have called the Creature in the White House and your Congress person & Senators, then you have served as a faithful watchman.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NKJV

The problem is that the great bulk of America wants it done.

Maybe but IMVHO not so much.........

IMHO They/we/I want to punish Islamic Jihadis/terrorists who attack US but are not up for wasting American lives and treasure on George W.W. "Woodrow Wilson" Bush nation-building when the troops could be at home doing their regular jobs and the money could be saved or at least used on infrastructure or the Space Program/Meteor Detection & Deflection.....

They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin

Other than Jihadi suppression, I don't see much benefit from now being in Trash... oops I mean Afghanistan/Pakistan......

Would happily sell Afghanistan to the Chinese Dragon Lords for $1 on a quit claim deed stating that we/US will not come to the rescue of the Afghan hound dogs again like we foolishly did when the Russian Bears had them in their jaws........ Let the Dragon Lords guard their copper mining, exploit the rare earth metals in their typical smoky Dragon way etc. in peace...... At least from US.....

[monster_gardener]

Nothing is gotten from those activities. That's what takes it beyond Kafka.

The problem with your position is twofold, 1) there is a man who gets up in the morning and is handed a list of possible targets to strike, the list comes to him by his directive, and then he alone looks at the list and he alone decides which targets are worthwhile, and then he alone gives the order for people to die, with very few people even aware this is going on. And he does it day in and day out, it is part of his daily routine and is a part of who he is as a person. It has become him. Then he goes on TV and says there is no war on terror and condemns fear politics while he spies on everyone and molests them at the airport.

Your proposal completely exonerates this individual.

2) Your attempt at collective guilt falls into your typical pitfall the fallacy of the false average. You take good people and average them with bad people and in Clintonian triangulation condemn both houses in order to try to establish some sort of bizarre non-confrontation with the bad guys.

Polls show liberal Democrats love this stuff, the GOP side much much less. But you won't point that out. False average.

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Mr. Perfect.

Nothing is gotten from those activities. That's what takes it beyond Kafka.

I disagree with the first part.

33 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, speak to the children of your people, and say to them: ‘When I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from their territory and make him their watchman, 3 when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.’

Even with a Cockroach like the Creature in the White House , the Watchmen are supposed to warn him..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis

And even the Cockroach in the White House wants to keep his popularity higher that that of Congress

When asked which they had a higher opinion of, Americans picked all sorts of typically unappealing over those lawmakers working in Washington, including Wall Street, witches, zombies, jury duty, hipsters, the DMV, and the IRS. Cockroaches and toenail fungus also eked out a lead over the denizens of D.C., but not beyond the 4.4 point margin of error, so it’s safe to call those a tie.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/congress-les ... qUsp2BS.99

Which is probably one reason the Cockroach has not yet attacked Syria.........

[Enki]

Oh, I've followed all the usual prescriptions. The problem is that the great bulk of America wants it done. They may not say it, but deprive them of the things that are got by such activities,in Pakistan and elsewhere, and watch the screaming begin.

We are not gotten anything that tangibly benefits the layman by bombing Pakistan.