The Spread of the Caliphate: The [Wannabe] Islamic State

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How long before Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Doc » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:50 am

You all remember AL Qaeda don't you? You know the folks Obama issued a "Mission accomplished" against when Osama Bin Laden was killed?



Yeah so that must be someone else in Iraq taking over city after city. :twisted:

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Last edited by Doc on Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Mr. Perfect » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:51 am

Wow. What a question. Let's see what Berzer says.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Demon of Undoing » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:50 pm

Ask me what?

I think some people still aren't really getting what AlQ actually was. It was a franchise. An idea. That's all. Obama and Bush or Jeebus or whoever shuts down McDonalds. Great. You got a big one. Now go chase down BK, Arby's, Jack IN The Box, etc.

Got it?
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Typhoon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:09 pm

It's just history repeating.

Who "lost" China?

Who "lost" Vietnam?

Who "lost" Iraq?

As if any of the above belonged to the US.

Nothing more than the all too predictable demise of the "1000 Year Empire" fantasy of Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, et al.

So what exactly should the US do?

Recommit hundreds of thousands of troops to place Iraq under permanent occupation with an ever accumulating cost in the trillions of dollars?

That's what it will take. There are no magic "solutions" that any POTUS can simply pull out of a hat.
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Black Magic Solutions........

Postby monster_gardener » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:37 am

Typhoon wrote:It's just history repeating.

Who "lost" China?

Who "lost" Vietnam?

Who "lost" Iraq?

As if any of the above belonged to the US.

Nothing more than the all too predictable demise of the "1000 Year Empire" fantasy of Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, et al.

So what exactly should the US do?

Recommit hundreds of thousands of troops to place Iraq under permanent occupation with an ever accumulating cost in the trillions of dollars?

That's what it will take. There are no magic "solutions" that any POTUS can simply pull out of a hat.


Thank You VERY MUCH for your Post and Maintaining the Forum, Typhoon.

So what exactly should the US do?

Recommit hundreds of thousands of troops to place Iraq under permanent occupation with an ever accumulating cost in the trillions of dollars?


I agree with you that this is VERY Bad idea....


There are no magic "solutions" that any POTUS can simply pull out of a hat


There are some magic solutions....... :shock:

The problem is that they often tend to be VERY Black Magic solutions....... :evil:


But if ISIS or similar does a 911 or worse on America.... :evil: :evil:

As ISIS claims to be planning to do.... :shock:

The temptation to use them will be strong... :evil:

Milo Doctrine is bland & tame by comparison....... :shock:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGupnB1OUI

Probably this one is really more relevant.....

Starting at ~ 1:03

"I've got a Black Magic Woman.... She's tryin' to make a devil out of me"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEZhQfIFIRE
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Zack Morris » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:00 am

As the Colonel pointed out, there are no solutions here. None. You seem to be hinting that we are constrained by ethical principles from engaging in levels of arbitrary cruelty that would bring about defeat but that is highly dubious given the history of the region. There are no examples of civilization being successfully imposed on a people without continuous occupation and near total annihilation of their numbers, which is counter to the objective that Bush/Neocons like yourself set forth during the 2003 invasion: to bring about democracy and stable governance and leave, letting democracy spread organically while the oil flow paid for the invasion.

Lest you bring up Germany or Japan during WWII, consider that Japan already voluntarily mimicked Western governance structures long before the war (indeed, their campaign of aggression was modeled on European imperialism and ideas of racial and cultural superiority), necessitating much smaller post-war changes that were capable of being sustained internally, without direct US occupation. Germany, of course, had far more in common with the Allies to begin with, the war being almost an intracultural power struggle against a particular regime.

The Arabs have demonstrated time and time again that they are not yet capable of adopting or even willing to adopt Western political culture and are capable of enduring decades-long oppression and jihad. People like Assad and Hussein understand/understood this very well. Israel does, too. All three of these maintained internal order through endless occupation and never-ending, limitless reprisals. Unlike them, we have no reason to remain there for eternity, and genocide is not an option.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Simple Minded » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:44 am

Typhoon wrote:It's just history repeating.

......

So what exactly should the US do?

Recommit hundreds of thousands of troops to place Iraq under permanent occupation with an ever accumulating cost in the trillions of dollars?

That's what it will take. There are no magic "solutions" that any POTUS can simply pull out of a hat.


It would be cheaper to print & distribute 317,000,000 tee shirts with the slogan:

I AM THE 0.000000315%!


and in the interest of beating Monster Gardner to the punch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP81Je7APoQ
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Parodite » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:02 pm

Zack Morris wrote:Lest you bring up Germany or Japan during WWII, consider that Japan already voluntarily mimicked Western governance structures long before the war (indeed, their campaign of aggression was modeled on European imperialism and ideas of racial and cultural superiority), necessitating much smaller post-war changes that were capable of being sustained internally, without direct US occupation.


Are you sure Japan needed European imperialism as a model? :roll: Maybe you are right. On the other hand... imperialism is just something that exists since time immemorial and everywhere.. just on a bigger scale: expansions of power, trade and often of territory. Somehow I think Asians don't need Europeans for that...

The Arabs have demonstrated time and time again that they are not yet capable of adopting or even willing to adopt Western political culture and are capable of enduring decades-long oppression and jihad. People like Assad and Hussein understand/understood this very well. Israel does, too. All three of these maintained internal order through endless occupation and never-ending, limitless reprisals. Unlike them, we have no reason to remain there for eternity, and genocide is not an option.


I think Hans Bulvai made this point too. If you want short-term quiet in the Meddle East.. let the dicktators do their dirty job. They just kill their opponents and throw the rest who opens their mouths from which critical sounds escape... in jail.
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Cultural Impositions & For Whom the Bell Tolls....

Postby monster_gardener » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:06 pm

Zack Morris wrote:As the Colonel pointed out, there are no solutions here. None. You seem to be hinting that we are constrained by ethical principles from engaging in levels of arbitrary cruelty that would bring about defeat but that is highly dubious given the history of the region. There are no examples of civilization being successfully imposed on a people without continuous occupation and near total annihilation of their numbers, which is counter to the objective that Bush/Neocons like yourself set forth during the 2003 invasion: to bring about democracy and stable governance and leave, letting democracy spread organically while the oil flow paid for the invasion.

Lest you bring up Germany or Japan during WWII, consider that Japan already voluntarily mimicked Western governance structures long before the war (indeed, their campaign of aggression was modeled on European imperialism and ideas of racial and cultural superiority), necessitating much smaller post-war changes that were capable of being sustained internally, without direct US occupation. Germany, of course, had far more in common with the Allies to begin with, the war being almost an intracultural power struggle against a particular regime.

The Arabs have demonstrated time and time again that they are not yet capable of adopting or even willing to adopt Western political culture and are capable of enduring decades-long oppression and jihad. People like Assad and Hussein understand/understood this very well. Israel does, too. All three of these maintained internal order through endless occupation and never-ending, limitless reprisals. Unlike them, we have no reason to remain there for eternity, and genocide is not an option.


Thank You Very Much for your post, Zack,

there are no solutions here. None.


False.........

There are solutions....... :idea:

Problem is that most of them are NOT Good..... :evil: :idea:

You seem to be hinting that we are constrained by ethical principles from engaging in levels of arbitrary cruelty that would bring about defeat.....


Yes.

For the moment..... :shock:


but that is highly dubious given the history of the region.


It might be a good idea to read Joshua & Judges in the Tanakh/Old Testament...... :o

There are no examples of civilization being successfully imposed on a people without continuous occupation and near total annihilation of their numbers,


Not so much.....

To a large degree, the Japanese, perhaps beginning Prince Shotoku, imposed Chinese/Confucian culture on themselves down to Chinese characters which many say do not work that well for Japanese resulting in Japan having 3 or 4 'alphabets': Kanji (modified meaning Chinese characters), Katakana (Japanese syllabary ), Hiragana (Japanese syllabary ), and perhaps Romanji (Japanese rendered into using Roman/Western letters).....

And there is Russian history with Russian Monarchs who sometimes were to a large degree or totally foreign (Catherine the Great) and imposed foreign customs on the Russians....

And of course what you mentioned which is still imposition of civilization or something like it ;)

that Bush/Hitlerites like yourself


I am neither. BTW Thank You VERY MUCH for the Godwin's Law forfeit! :lol:

The Arabs have demonstrated time and time again that they are not yet capable of adopting or even willing to adopt Western political culture


Maybe.....

Might depend on how Arab/Muslim is defined..... Are the Turks, Arabs, or at least quasi Arabs given that the Muslim Meme tends to inflict much of 7th Century Arabian Culture :roll: on those who adopt Islam.. :idea:

If so, someone like Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, might be able of imposing a Constitutional Republic with a Bill of Rights on Arabs/quasi Arab Muslims..... Would have been interesting ;) to see what would have have happened if Ataturk had not drank so much :roll: and lived long enough to achieve his goal of effectively sending religion in Turkey on a Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea ;)


Unlike them, we have no reason to remain there for eternity,


I hope you are correct.

Don't want to do that.....

Would like to see things like nuclear power with which one can make oil from virtually anything organic make Middle Eastern oil superfluous......

But the problem is larger than that.......
Not just US & Westerners there.........
Also them, the traditional/Jihadi Muslims here.... :shock:

From the Invasion of Spain to the Gates of Vienna to the Barbary Pirates to 911 & the Tsarnev Brothers, the attitude of the traditional/Jihadi Muslims is well summarized below:

When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise.




and genocide is not an option.


Perhaps not yet for US......

But I have read of Traditional/Jihadi Muslims describing Israel as a One Nuke Nation that only one atomic bomb could destroy.....

And I have read that Israel has Salted Nukes/Cobalt Bombs or similar ready for retaliation.....
Which could effectively make much/all of the Northern Hemisphere or more uninhabitable.....

They are channeling Samson who destroyed more at his death than during his life.... :shock:
Determined to make genocide work both ways..... :twisted:

And perhaps more as collateral damage....

The Bell May Toll for US too :shock:

Good reasons to invest in both the Space Program & Southern Hemisphere Real Estate.....

Though very good fallout shelters may be an option....
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Postby monster_gardener » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:14 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
Typhoon wrote:It's just history repeating.

......

So what exactly should the US do?

Recommit hundreds of thousands of troops to place Iraq under permanent occupation with an ever accumulating cost in the trillions of dollars?

That's what it will take. There are no magic "solutions" that any POTUS can simply pull out of a hat.


It would be cheaper to print & distribute 317,000,000 tee shirts with the slogan:

I AM THE 0.000000315%!


and in the interest of beating Monster Gardner to the punch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8


Thank You VERY Much for your post, Simple Minded.

and in the interest of beating Monster Gardner to the punch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8


Imagine ;) that! :lol:

Congratulations!

But I brought my own booze to the party! ;) :lol:

Best Regards,
Your Friend,
MG
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Zack Morris » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:38 pm

Parodite wrote:Are you sure Japan needed European imperialism as a model? :roll: Maybe you are right. On the other hand... imperialism is just something that exists since time immemorial and everywhere.. just on a bigger scale: expansions of power, trade and often of territory. Somehow I think Asians don't need Europeans for that...


I don't know whether their early 20th century wars of aggression and conquest were explicitly modeled after European colonialism but when criticized, the Japanese are awfully quick to point out that there was a strong European precedent for this sort of behavior at the time. And this was also a period of (historically unprecedented?) self-induced radical modernization in Japan, most of which was modeled after the West. Certainly by the outbreak of war with the United States, the Japanese were accustomed to a political system and civil society that was very similar to that of other Western nations. Sure, Japanese is fundamentally different from Western culture in many ways, but to my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong), it was never Japan's objective to overthrow or conquer the West. Rather, they wanted to be seated as equal at the table of world powers.

This is quite different from the attitude of Arabs and much of the extended Islamic world, which does not see a future compatible with Western ideals, unlike pre-war German and Japanese civilization.

I think Hans Bulvai made this point too. If you want short-term quiet in the Meddle East.. let the dicktators do their dirty job. They just kill their opponents and throw the rest who opens their mouths from which critical sounds escape... in jail.


Exactly. Our options are limited. I believe that slowly but surely, external economic and cultural influence will prove corrosive to traditional Islamic society. But externally imposed Westernization? Forget about it unless you want to kill them all or install a brutal military regime. In either case, does that even count as meeting our objectives?
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Re: Cultural Impositions & For Whom the Bell Tolls....

Postby Zack Morris » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:55 pm

monster_gardener wrote:False.........

There are solutions....... :idea:

Problem is that most of them are NOT Good..... :evil: :idea:


Wrong. These "solutions" would not bring about what we want. We do not want to administer these countries through oppressive authoritarianism indefinitely. And even if we did, local thugs can only last so long before the situation explodes and we suffer the blowback.

It might be a good idea to read Joshua & Judges in the Tanakh/Old Testament...... :o


The only thing to be learned from the Old Testament is that the Middle East was populated by genocidal idiots even then.

There are no examples of civilization being successfully imposed on a people without continuous occupation and near total annihilation of their numbers,


Not so much.....

To a large degree, the Japanese, perhaps beginning Prince Shotoku, imposed Chinese/Confucian culture on themselves down to Chinese characters which many say do not work that well for Japanese resulting in Japan having 3 or 4 'alphabets': Kanji (modified meaning Chinese characters), Katakana (Japanese syllabary ), Hiragana (Japanese syllabary ), and perhaps Romanji (Japanese rendered into using Roman/Western letters).....


Yeah, this has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

And there is Russian history with Russian Monarchs who sometimes were to a large degree or totally foreign (Catherine the Great) and imposed foreign customs on the Russians....


Neither does this. And, for the record, the Russians eventually killed their foreign rulers and to this are fiercely proud of their cultural autonomy. Hitler had a good few years trying to subjugate Eastern Europeans, and then the Soviets tried their hand. Didn't work. And you think the mental midgets in the US military, foreign policy, and intelligence establishments (among them the several-times-reanimated corpse of Dick Cheney) could do a better job if they were free from the constraints of civilized behavior?

From the Invasion of Spain to the Gates of Vienna to the Barbary Pirates to 911 & the Tsarnev Brothers, the attitude of the traditional/Jihadi Muslims is well summarized below:


The entire history of Islam's interaction with the outside world is but a footnote compared with what Europeans did between 1492 and the 1960's. There is literally no comparison. If in the next century the world is destroyed, it will be with Western innovations.
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Was a Japanese Empress the First Jingoist? ;-)

Postby monster_gardener » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:17 am

Parodite wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:Lest you bring up Germany or Japan during WWII, consider that Japan already voluntarily mimicked Western governance structures long before the war (indeed, their campaign of aggression was modeled on European imperialism and ideas of racial and cultural superiority), necessitating much smaller post-war changes that were capable of being sustained internally, without direct US occupation.


Are you sure Japan needed European imperialism as a model? :roll: Maybe you are right. On the other hand... imperialism is just something that exists since time immemorial and everywhere.. just on a bigger scale: expansions of power, trade and often of territory. Somehow I think Asians don't need Europeans for that...

The Arabs have demonstrated time and time again that they are not yet capable of adopting or even willing to adopt Western political culture and are capable of enduring decades-long oppression and jihad. People like Assad and Hussein understand/understood this very well. Israel does, too. All three of these maintained internal order through endless occupation and never-ending, limitless reprisals. Unlike them, we have no reason to remain there for eternity, and genocide is not an option.


I think Hans Bulvai made this point too. If you want short-term quiet in the Meddle East.. let the dicktators do their dirty job. They just kill their opponents and throw the rest who opens their mouths from which critical sounds escape... in jail.


Thank You VERY Much for your post, Rhapsody Parodite,

Are you sure Japan needed European imperialism as a model?


You are correct, Rhap.

If Japan needed any instruction in Imperialism after Legendary Empress Jingo ;) :twisted: :lol: , they got it when they were invaded by the Chinese & Koreans under Mongol leadership during the Yuan dynasty. Japan managed to beat them back with the Kamikaze/Divine Wind/Typhoon ;) Later the Japanese under Hideyoshi the Commoner Who Became King or a Reasonable Facsimile thereof/the Shogun, would invade Korea with the aim of Empire....
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Doc » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:40 am

Zack Morris wrote:
Parodite wrote:Are you sure Japan needed European imperialism as a model? :roll: Maybe you are right. On the other hand... imperialism is just something that exists since time immemorial and everywhere.. just on a bigger scale: expansions of power, trade and often of territory. Somehow I think Asians don't need Europeans for that...


I don't know whether their early 20th century wars of aggression and conquest were explicitly modeled after European colonialism but when criticized, the Japanese are awfully quick to point out that there was a strong European precedent for this sort of behavior at the time. And this was also a period of (historically unprecedented?) self-induced radical modernization in Japan, most of which was modeled after the West. Certainly by the outbreak of war with the United States, the Japanese were accustomed to a political system and civil society that was very similar to that of other Western nations. Sure, Japanese is fundamentally different from Western culture in many ways, but to my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong), it was never Japan's objective to overthrow or conquer the West. Rather, they wanted to be seated as equal at the table of world powers.

This is quite different from the attitude of Arabs and much of the extended Islamic world, which does not see a future compatible with Western ideals, unlike pre-war German and Japanese civilization.

I think Hans Bulvai made this point too. If you want short-term quiet in the Meddle East.. let the dicktators do their dirty job. They just kill their opponents and throw the rest who opens their mouths from which critical sounds escape... in jail.


Exactly. Our options are limited. I believe that slowly but surely, external economic and cultural influence will prove corrosive to traditional Islamic society. But externally imposed Westernization? Forget about it unless you want to kill them all or install a brutal military regime. In either case, does that even count as meeting our objectives?


I think both of you are rather short sighted in this. The real problem is that Islam at least in the ME is being run by people nostalgic for an 8th century lifestyle. What that is really about is fear of change. The same thing that fueled the Iranian revolution. They need to see where that gets them. Then they can figure out for themselves what they did wrong, instead of blaming Americans backed dictators for their woes. ME society is dysfunctional in the sense they have no way to feed themselves. A religion that does not allow for the modern world. If they stick to their religion as is they will fail as a civilization, and their off spring, if they have any, will end up as part of another civilization.

it is time to cut off the oil. Aid where we can and let them do what they are meant to do or not. We can make things more probable for say democracy to flourish But in the end the people living there have to make it themselves, or not.
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Goals, Priorities & Going to the Stars......

Postby monster_gardener » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:39 am

Zack Morris wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:False.........

There are solutions....... :idea:

Problem is that most of them are NOT Good..... :evil: :idea:


Wrong. These "solutions" would not bring about what we want. We do not want to administer these countries through oppressive authoritarianism indefinitely. And even if we did, local thugs can only last so long before the situation explodes and we suffer the blowback.

It might be a good idea to read Joshua & Judges in the Tanakh/Old Testament...... :o


The only thing to be learned from the Old Testament is that the Middle East was populated by genocidal idiots even then.

There are no examples of civilization being successfully imposed on a people without continuous occupation and near total annihilation of their numbers,


Not so much.....

To a large degree, the Japanese, perhaps beginning Prince Shotoku, imposed Chinese/Confucian culture on themselves down to Chinese characters which many say do not work that well for Japanese resulting in Japan having 3 or 4 'alphabets': Kanji (modified meaning Chinese characters), Katakana (Japanese syllabary ), Hiragana (Japanese syllabary ), and perhaps Romanji (Japanese rendered into using Roman/Western letters).....


Yeah, this has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

And there is Russian history with Russian Monarchs who sometimes were to a large degree or totally foreign (Catherine the Great) and imposed foreign customs on the Russians....


Neither does this. And, for the record, the Russians eventually killed their foreign rulers and to this are fiercely proud of their cultural autonomy. Hitler had a good few years trying to subjugate Eastern Europeans, and then the Soviets tried their hand. Didn't work. And you think the mental midgets in the US military, foreign policy, and intelligence establishments (among them the several-times-reanimated corpse of Dick Cheney) could do a better job if they were free from the constraints of civilized behavior?

From the Invasion of Spain to the Gates of Vienna to the Barbary Pirates to 911 & the Tsarnev Brothers, the attitude of the traditional/Jihadi Muslims is well summarized below:


The entire history of Islam's interaction with the outside world is but a footnote compared with what Europeans did between 1492 and the 1960's. There is literally no comparison. If in the next century the world is destroyed, it will be with Western innovations.


Thank You Very Much for your post, Zack.

Wrong. These "solutions" would not bring about what we want.


That may be the problem.

We may not want the same things or if we do, our priorities are different.

So let's stop saying "we" when you mean you and I mean me. :idea:

What are your goals?

And with what priority?

Beyond not wanting to administer these countries through oppressive authoritarianism and not wanting blowback....

Are you willing to accept blow forward ;) :twisted: when Traditional/Jihadi Muslims attack without striking back?

Or would Milo Doctrine for Breakfast be Better.......


And, for the record, the Russians eventually killed their foreign rulers


And got worse leaders such as Stalin..... :evil: :evil: :evil:


and to this are fiercely proud of their cultural autonomy.


Sure...... IIRC a major Russian insult is: Nyet Kulturny meaning Uncultured.......

But as a counter-example, I note that The Talented Mr. Putin, President Prince Vlad the Imprisoner of Russia does not wear a beard and that all of the Soviet Supreme Leaders after Lenin did not wear beards whereas in traditional Russian culture, the beard was considered a gift from G_d ,which is understandable given how cold Russian winters can be, but Peter the Great who wanted to make the Russians more like the West Europeans decided beards had to go and to a significant degree they did....

And don't say ;) :lol: , that beards are culturally insignificant. For example, currently beards are one indicator of a Muslim Meme Infection :shock: . Should not be used as a single test but Muslims have been known to sue prisons over wanting to wear a beard :shock:


Hitler had a good few years trying to subjugate Eastern Europeans, and then the Soviets tried their hand. Didn't work. And you think the mental midgets in the US military, foreign policy, and intelligence establishments (among them the several-times-reanimated corpse of Dick Cheney) could do a better job if they were free from the constraints of civilized behavior?


Wondering if you are of Russian or other East European ancestry?

If so, that's not a problem with me. The clan has traditionally had Russian friends and I still remember a cute Russian-American girl from high school who actually spoke Russian :) The Russians deserve much credit for their achievements in Space Exploration going back to Konstantin Tsiolkovsky who was of Polish descent and especially for keeping their manned space program & the ISS going with their reliable Soyuz rockets while Darth obama the Lying Son of a Bitch Eater has let the the US manned space program lapse and for the past 3 years has attempted to cut the space program further :evil:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin ... hievements

The entire history of Islam's interaction with the outside world is but a footnote compared with what Europeans did between 1492 and the 1960's.


I doubt that the victims of the Islamic raiders & invaders would agree ;) :twisted: :idea:

Or that the Traditional/Jihadi Muslims themselves, who are proud of their days of glory when they were at the point of overrunning Europe and long for their return, would agree either. :twisted: :idea:

If in the next century the world is destroyed, it will be with Western innovations.


And if in the next century, humanity & friends colonize the Solar System and reach for the Stars, it will be with Western Innovations.........
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Re: Goals, Priorities & Going to the Stars......

Postby Simple Minded » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:21 pm

monster_gardener wrote:

That may be the problem.

We may not want the same things or if we do, our priorities are different.

So let's stop saying "we" when you mean you and I mean me. :idea:



MG,

As the official spokesperson for the entire human race, thruout the solar system, but not necessarily the "_______ community", I Thank you!

Remember the olden days when someone would use the word "we" and the reply was often "We? We? Wadda ya got a mouse in your pocket?"

Exaggerating numbers in the quest for power over others is the name of the game in representative government.

Arrogance, vanity, ignorance, and naiveté will never go out of style. If only I could find someone arrogant, vane, ignorant, and naïve enough to serve as my official spokesperson.........

I always thought that the person holding the sign "I am the 99%!" was probably not a math major, but perhaps a AGW climatologist!

Honest mistake, It was just a slight rounding error from I am the 0.00000033%!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP81Je7APoQ
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Mice, Tapeworms, Kings & Queens, People with MPD...........

Postby monster_gardener » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:34 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:

That may be the problem.

We may not want the same things or if we do, our priorities are different.

So let's stop saying "we" when you mean you and I mean me. :idea:



MG,

As the official spokesperson for the entire human race, thruout the solar system, but not necessarily the "_______ community", I Thank you!

Remember the olden days when someone would use the word "we" and the reply was often "We? We? Wadda ya got a mouse in your pocket?"

Exaggerating numbers in the quest for power over others is the name of the game in representative government.

Arrogance, vanity, ignorance, and naiveté will never go out of style. If only I could find someone arrogant, vane, ignorant, and naïve enough to serve as my official spokesperson.........

I always thought that the person holding the sign "I am the 99%!" was probably not a math major, but perhaps a AGW climatologist!

Honest mistake, It was just a slight rounding error from I am the 0.00000033%!


Thank You VERY MUCH for your reply, Simple Minded.

And VERY Much also for the Kind Words of Agreement.

Am tempted to say we ;)
Seem to Agree
But to try not to use "we"
Improperly
Instead
Will say
You and I


Remember the olden days when someone would use the word "we" and the reply was often "We? We? Wadda ya got a mouse in your pocket?"


I think I do.....Though I remember "tapeworm" :twisted: more

Have read that Kings & Queens
Get to use the royal "We"
As in
"Are not amused"
But certainly not commoners...
Like US ;)

Wonder if there is a Presidential "we"
For elected Wannabe Kings...... :roll:
Probably de facto :roll:
If not de jure....

I could check but.. Ugh! Don't really want to listen to more Darth obama speeches. So many Lies :evil: So little time.

And we should not forget the Multiple Personality Community (MPD) ;)

Beginning with Dr. Jeckell & Mr. Hyde down to Me, MysElves & I, complete with pointy Elven Ears & Bows & Arrows... ;)

It may be best not to Heckle
Dr. Jeckle
For using the Royal We.....
Dr. Jeckle might turn into Mr. Hyde :shock:
Or a Magpie or Two.... ;)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvm22_TdnlI
Last edited by monster_gardener on Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mice, Tapeworms, Kings & Queens, People with MPD........

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:13 pm

monster_gardener wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
MG,

As the official spokesperson for the entire human race, thruout the solar system, but not necessarily the "_______ community", I Thank you!



Thank You VERY MUCH for your reply, Simple Minded.

And VERY Much also for the Kind Words of Agreement.

Am tempted to say we ;)
Seem to Agree
To try not to use "we"
Improperly
But Instead
Will say
You and I



MG,

You be welcome!

Always fascinating to see humans struggle with the internal contradictory desires for belonging to the biggest, bestest, coolest, group du jour, and while trying to be recognized as unique individuals!

I have read where biologists have witnessed the same phenomena in the animal kingdom.

Just as the battle is within so is the victory!

The variables defining me, you, I, and we are always in flux!

I'm pretty sure it will remain that way forever.

Just think how messed up the world will be when animals get access to smartphones and the internet! :( :o :shock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP81Je7APoQ
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:34 pm

Just think how messed up the world will be when animals get access to smartphones and the internet!


They will probably become obsessed with instagramming pics of their people food treats and kitty pron.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby noddy » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:58 am

before discussing falling we need to define standing.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Mr. Perfect » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:34 am

Haven't seen one person in the world ask the right question about this yet. That question is, "are recent events in Iraq a concern for US et al security interests". The answer is unequivocally yes.

Everyone fantasized that the Milo Doctrine meant no more war, it doesn't. It allows the people you want to genocide to come out of the woodwork, gives you names and faces. That's all. If you take "genocide" off the table then the number of dead will only increase.

Democrats are not cut out for this. Neither are Euro leftists.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Doc » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:57 am

Mr. Perfect wrote:Haven't seen one person in the world ask the right question about this yet. That question is, "are recent events in Iraq a concern for US et al security interests". The answer is unequivocally yes.

Everyone fantasized that the Milo Doctrine meant no more war, it doesn't. It allows the people you want to genocide to come out of the woodwork, gives you names and faces. That's all. If you take "genocide" off the table then the number of dead will only increase.

Democrats are not cut out for this. Neither are Euro leftists.


http://www.strategypage.com/%5Chtmw%5Ch ... 40717.aspx

Meanwhile the Wikileaks documents clearly show there were still a lot of chemical weapons in Iraq in 2003 and Saddam’s plan to rebuild his chemical weapons capabilities as soon as the UN embargo was gone were clear and easy for Iraq to accomplish. What is lost in all this conspiracy talk was that Iraq still has the capability to rebuild its chemical weapons arsenal and manufacturing capability. While most of the key technical people were Sunni Arabs (and thus unlikely to work for the current Shia government), that expertise can be hired, as can the specialists needed to run the chemical plants that are quite legal until they are tweaked to produce deadly chemical weapons instead of useful and quite beneficial chemicals. For some reason that never became a headline grabbing story.



With the "Caliphate" comes the Chemical Weapons experts.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Typhoon » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:01 am

Mr. Perfect wrote:Haven't seen one person in the world ask the right question about this yet. That question is, "are recent events in Iraq a concern for US et al security interests". The answer is unequivocally yes.


How so?
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Typhoon » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:00 pm

Mr. Perfect wrote:Haven't seen one person in the world ask the right question about this yet. That question is, "are recent events in Iraq a concern for US et al security interests". The answer is unequivocally yes.

. . .

Democrats are not cut out for this. . . .


Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Harry Truman.
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Re: How long befoe Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Postby Typhoon » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:01 pm

Doc wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Haven't seen one person in the world ask the right question about this yet. That question is, "are recent events in Iraq a concern for US et al security interests". The answer is unequivocally yes.

Everyone fantasized that the Milo Doctrine meant no more war, it doesn't. It allows the people you want to genocide to come out of the woodwork, gives you names and faces. That's all. If you take "genocide" off the table then the number of dead will only increase.

Democrats are not cut out for this. Neither are Euro leftists.


http://www.strategypage.com/%5Chtmw%5Ch ... 40717.aspx

Meanwhile the Wikileaks documents clearly show there were still a lot of chemical weapons in Iraq in 2003 and Saddam’s plan to rebuild his chemical weapons capabilities as soon as the UN embargo was gone were clear and easy for Iraq to accomplish. What is lost in all this conspiracy talk was that Iraq still has the capability to rebuild its chemical weapons arsenal and manufacturing capability. While most of the key technical people were Sunni Arabs (and thus unlikely to work for the current Shia government), that expertise can be hired, as can the specialists needed to run the chemical plants that are quite legal until they are tweaked to produce deadly chemical weapons instead of useful and quite beneficial chemicals. For some reason that never became a headline grabbing story.



With the "Caliphate" comes the Chemical Weapons experts.


So how would this speculation place the US at risk?
All the world's a stage.
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