The Spread of the Caliphate: The [Wannabe] Islamic State

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Doc
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Re: The Obama Caliphate

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http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr ... 40912.aspx
American Moslems Are Different

September 12, 2014: While there have been some American Moslems who have embraced Islamic terrorism, the rate at which Muslims in America do so is far lower than in other Western countries. American Moslems are not only more loyal to their adopted country, but do better economically than Moslems in other Western nations. Part of this is because the United States has always been more receptive to migrants that other nations. American Moslem politicians are also more into the local culture than Moslem politicians elsewhere in the West.

One example of this was Keith Ellison, the first Moslem to be elected to Congress. After he won he announced that he would take his oath of office in 2007 using Thomas Jefferson’s own copy of the Koran. While widely viewed as a way to diffuse criticism from arch-conservative Christians, the move also sent a subtle message to Islamic extremists as well. The Jefferson Koran is in English. Old school Moslems consider translating the Koran from the original Arabic blasphemous. For example, the centuries long tension between Arabs and Berbers in the Sahara is partially fueled by the Berber use of a translated version of the Koran.

Another factor in all this is the number and composition of American Moslems. Only one percent of Americans are Moslem compared to 7.5 percent in France, five percent in Germany and 4.5 percent in Britain. As a black American who converted to Islam, Ellison personifies a significant, if usually unpublicized, rift in the Moslem community in the U.S. Perhaps 30-40 percent of American Moslems are African Americans, many of them former “Nation of Islam” adherents who became mainstream Moslems. They are often regarded as “second class” Moslems by co-religionists of recent immigrant origins, and particularly so by Moslems with Arab roots. Race certainly plays a part in this, as black slavery was once common in much of the Arab world, and Arabs usually consider Moslems of other ethnicities as inferior in any case. Thousands of black Africans are still held as slaves by Arabs in Africa which in the West is most consistently criticized by American Moslems and Christians. Al Qaeda has long noted these different attitudes and before the September 11, 2001 attacks the 19 terrorists (most of them from Saudi Arabia) assigned to carry out those attacks were warned to avoid American Moslems, who were prone to turning in Islamic terrorists.

But there is more. African American Moslems usually have a much different world view than do Moslems of other ethnicities. To begin with, they tend to see themselves as Americans first and have a much firmer grasp of the nature of American society, the political process, and the complexities of living in a pluralistic environment. They also adhere to some “American” cultural values. Black American Moslems differ from their immigrant co-religionists in that they are much more committed to securing a niche in mainstream society. They are also much more socially liberal; the most socially conservative Republicans seem like revolutionaries compared with most orthodox Moslems.

Ellison is thus staking out a position distancing himself from the Islamic conservatives, while still asserting his religious preferences. This may make him particularly effective. Ellison won 55 percent of the vote in his first election, and 74 percent in his latest (2012). There are now two Moslems in the House of Representatives.
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Most things ISIS thread

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I'm wondering the appropriate place to an all things ISIS thread.

I'm not a fan of monothreads, but I am also not a fan of threads that get zero or one response. For example sometimes a poll is worthy of it's own thread and often it is not. Eg II I think that there needs to be more than one obama thread but obviously not infinite obama threads.

ISIS is the biggest geopolitical things going over here at the moment, and so getting the information posted in an orderly fashion is in everyone's interest. So I'm open to ideas.

Here's a start. Hat tip Doc. Please circulate this to the various Democrat information screening bunkers out there.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-t ... ll-n202976
Nearly 70 percent of Americans say they lack confidence that the U.S. will achieve its goals in fighting the terrorist group ISIS, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Annenberg poll. The findings come in the wake of President Barack Obama’s national address announcing new measures to combat the Sunni militants.
Last edited by Mr. Perfect on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where should we do ISIS?

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I should add that I am not for an ISIS monothread, but it would be nice to get some ground rules.
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Re: Where should we do ISIS?

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Is it the biggest geopolitical event at the moment? A bunch of fanatics running around in rubble?

A few weeks ago, it was Putin, who everyone was swearing up and down would be drinking tea in Paris by September...

How is this bigger than the Scots being on the verge of dissolving the Union?
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Re: Where should we do ISIS?

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These days any major story is "at the moment". China could start a nuclear war tomorrow of course and wouldn't be much of a surprise but we would want to cover that in an organized fashion.
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Re: Where should we do ISIS?

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I forgot to mention this is meant to be a temporary thread.
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The Islamic State

Post by Endovelico »

As far as I am concerned the US should find out in which mosque the Calipha and his friends would be praying next friday and drop ten cruise missiles on it. Then it should use napalm on every single concentration of ISIS troops in Iraq or Syria. That would go a long way towards solving the problem.
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Re: The Sun God, The Moon God & History Decree...

Post by manolo »

monster_gardener wrote:
But when True Believers get it in their heads that the Desert Moon & War god says to go conquer the world for him..
monster,

Agreed.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lo ... _pnac.html

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Rather Go Hunting with Darth Cheny than Ruled by Darth obama

Post by monster_gardener »

manolo wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
But when True Believers get it in their heads that the Desert Moon & War god says to go conquer the world for him..
monster,

Agreed.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lo ... _pnac.html

Alex.
Thank You Very MUCH for your reply, Alex Manolo eThinker....

Ah! Dick "Darth" ;) Cheny, the man that Liberal & Progressives now love to hate as the Dark Sith Lord....

Fun to remember those Liberal Progressive Twits in the Chattering Class enthusing about Darth Cheny having "gravitas" ;) that could save the nation because they considered Buch W. to be a light weight unfit to be President even though Bush W. had been Governor of Texas and those same Liberal Progressive Twits would go on to elect a LYING Incompetent Twit from the Corrupt Depths of Chicago to be first a Senator who would mostly vote "Present" ;) :roll: and later be the Worst President ;) ever who would be famously mostly Present ;) on the Golf Course :lol: :roll:

The link claims that Darth Cheny is an evil Nimrod who likes to hunt "The Most Dangerous Game": Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkey Men & Women at his hunting lodge....

I am not a big fan of Darth Cheny and the Skull & Bones Bushes even though IMVHO they are better than the Evil Angel of Light & Incompetent Lying False Messiah Darth obama....

Regarding Dick Cheny's proven hunting habits..... Recalling this bumper sticker after Dick Cheny accidentally shot
a hunting companion:

I'd Rather Go Hunting with Dick Cheny than Driving with Ted Kennedy.....

Because for all his faults, Darth Cheny made sure the man he shot got to the hospital and was treated while the Cowardly Liberal Progressive Lecher Ted Kennedy let his lady friend drown afraid of the bad publicity rather than get help immediately.....

If the link is correct that Darth Cheny is a man hunter, I propose that his punishment channel this usefully and that Cheny be sent to help the Kurds hunt Caliphate Commandos :twisted: 8-)


And I propose the same for that Arrogant LYING Son of a Bitch Eater Darth obama..... Let him go to the frontlines and fight the Jihadi Thugs of ISIL who he covered up for a year or more....

There is precedent for the Commander in Chief leading the troops directly into battle: George Washington....

And Lincoln, the President, Darth obama claims to imitate, went to the front lines of battle to the point that the generals had to try to dissuade him saying that if he were shot, it would be a severe blow to the nation.....

IMHO that happening to obama would not be as true......
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The Islamic State

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Folks, you want to know how this disaster happened ? ?

well, The Origins of ISIS


Remember Ibrahim (and Monster) was sooo happy Qaddafi was f*cked ? ?

Well, welcome to ISIS

All music to Ahmadinejat eaaaar


.
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GadDaffy Duck vs. Perfidious Persian Princes & mad mad Mad mad mad mad Mullahs......

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Folks, you want to know how this disaster happened ? ?

well, The Origins of ISIS


Remember Ibrahim (and Monster) was sooo happy Qaddafi was f*cked ? ?

Well, welcome to ISIS

All music to Ahmadinejat eaaaar


.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari,

Usually Voldemort ;) and I did not agree on much....


IIRC I was amused
But not particularly enthused
About the GadDaffy Duck hunt....

Seemed to mostly benefit the Euroz..... :roll:
Rather than US
Who did the heavy lifting..... :roll:

I have even given obama the POS POTUS a rare kind word for resisting the Euroz :) before eventually giving in to the Euroz-Socialists he wishes US were like..... :roll:

I remember the past problems that Daffy and Ronald had with each other....
But of late, Daffy seemed to have reformed a bit......
IMHO better to have left alone a reformed villain.....

There is Lockerbie but it seems likely that Lockerbie may have been Persian Revenge for which the unlucky Duck took the blame....

If that is so, especially after the US paid weregild...... Then there is another reason not to trust Perfidious Persian Princes & mad mullahs...

All music to Ahmadinejat eaaaar
Until ISIS uses its big bucks to buy some nukes from the Sunni Zoo also known as Pakistan.... :shock:
Bad for US
Euroz too...
But also for SHIiTes ;) Looney Sunnis consider worse Dung ;) than Infidels....

Iran

A number of journalists considered that the Iranian revenge motive (retaliation for the shooting down of the Iran Air Airbus by USS Vincennes) was prematurely dismissed by investigators.[4] They drew attention to a comment by former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher in her 1993 memoirs, where she seemed to discount the Libya revenge motive (for the 1986 bombing of Tripoli and Benghazi by the United States air force):

"It turned out to be a more decisive blow against Libyan-sponsored terrorism than I could ever have imagined. ...There were revenge killings of British hostages organized by Libya, which I bitterly regretted. But the much-vaunted Libyan counter attack did not and could not take place... There was a marked decline in Libyan-sponsored terrorism in succeeding years" (Thatcher 1993, pp448-9).[13]

Additionally, Abolghasem Mesbahi, former head of Iranian intelligence in Europe, eventually defected and "told [German] investigators that Iran had asked Libya and Abu Nidal, a Palestinian guerrilla leader, to carry out the attack on Pan Am 103." [3]

The US Defense Intelligence Agency alleges that Ali Akbar Mohtashamipur (Ayatollah Mohtashemi), a member of the Iranian government, paid US$ 10 million for the bombing:

Ayatollah Mohtashemi: (...) and was the one who paid the same amount to bomb Pan Am Flight 103 in retaliation for the US shoot-down of the Iranian Airbus.[2]

Part of report, which is dated 1989-09-24, cites information acquired at Ft. Meade, MD:

The mission was to blow up a Pan Am flight that was to be almost entirely booked by US military personnel on Christmas leave. The flight was supposed to be a direct flight from Frankfurt, GE, to New York, not Pan Am flight 103 which was routed through London, UK. The suitcase containing the bomb was labeled with the name of one of the US passengers on the plane and was inadvertently placed on the wrong plane possibly by airport ground crew members in Frankfurt. The terrorist who last handled the bomb was not a passenger on the flight.[2]

and

The bomb was designed by Mu'Ay Al-Din ((Mughanniya)), a Lebanese national who lives in IR and who is supposedly Iran's expert on aircraft bombing and high-jacking operations. The bomb was constructed in LY and then shipped to GE for placement on the aircraft (NFI).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Fli ... ories#Iran
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Re: Most things ISIS thread

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Thread renamed.
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Re: Most things ISIS thread

Post by Mr. Perfect »

obama's rush to war. Everyone remember when Democrats were against rushing to war? I do, and I'll remind everyone. Moral and intellectual bankruptcy.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/d ... 11028.html
The vigorous debate took shape Tuesday behind closed doors, over a private Senate Democratic lunch and multiple closed-door meetings of anxious House Democrats. And it comes as the first part of the president’s war strategy — to give Obama new authority to train and equip Syrian rebels — heads to a critical House vote Wednesday.

(Also on POLITICO: The challenges facing Obama's coalition)

While that measure is expected to pass with the support of many House and Senate Democrats, the backing within the ranks remains tepid, according to numerous lawmakers. That means that when the time comes for the White House to seek a full-blown authorization to use military force in the region later in the year, it is certain to be an even heavier lift for the president, who already has personally reached out to lawmakers and dispatched his senior aides to cool nerves on Capitol Hill — not to mention delivered a prime-time address to the nation last week.

“I know he talks about a 40-country coalition — is it a papier-mâché coalition, or is it for real?” Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) said Tuesday. “Are these guys putting the same kinds of resources that we are? … I asked those questions; I did not get an answer.”


When asked about the plan to aid the Syrian rebels, Tester added: “If we’re talking about throwing additional dollars, we need to know where it’s going, we need to know who is paying for it, we need to know if it’s just flat going on the debt.”



“As far as I’m concerned, the more I get briefed, the more concerned I am,”
said Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) after a Tuesday briefing with Tony Blinken, a senior White House national security adviser. “I don’t understand the end game.”
Very Bush like policy.
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Re: Most things ISIS thread

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Mr. Perfect wrote:obama's rush to war. Everyone remember when Democrats were against rushing to war? I do, and I'll remind everyone. Moral and intellectual bankruptcy.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/d ... 11028.html
The vigorous debate took shape Tuesday behind closed doors, over a private Senate Democratic lunch and multiple closed-door meetings of anxious House Democrats. And it comes as the first part of the president’s war strategy — to give Obama new authority to train and equip Syrian rebels — heads to a critical House vote Wednesday.

(Also on POLITICO: The challenges facing Obama's coalition)

While that measure is expected to pass with the support of many House and Senate Democrats, the backing within the ranks remains tepid, according to numerous lawmakers. That means that when the time comes for the White House to seek a full-blown authorization to use military force in the region later in the year, it is certain to be an even heavier lift for the president, who already has personally reached out to lawmakers and dispatched his senior aides to cool nerves on Capitol Hill — not to mention delivered a prime-time address to the nation last week.

“I know he talks about a 40-country coalition — is it a papier-mâché coalition, or is it for real?” Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) said Tuesday. “Are these guys putting the same kinds of resources that we are? … I asked those questions; I did not get an answer.”


When asked about the plan to aid the Syrian rebels, Tester added: “If we’re talking about throwing additional dollars, we need to know where it’s going, we need to know who is paying for it, we need to know if it’s just flat going on the debt.”



“As far as I’m concerned, the more I get briefed, the more concerned I am,”
said Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) after a Tuesday briefing with Tony Blinken, a senior White House national security adviser. “I don’t understand the end game.”
Very Bush like policy.
I disagree. Obama will run away like a little school girl when the going just starts to get tough. I believe the leadership of ISIS is counting on that plus European leaders doing the same. They are counting on getting their creds among (Sunni) Muslims by making that happen. IF they can make the US run away then they figure they will look invincible to other Muslims. And therefore be submitted to.
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Re: Most things ISIS thread

Post by Enki »

Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm wondering the appropriate place to an all things ISIS thread.

I'm not a fan of monothreads, but I am also not a fan of threads that get zero or one response. For example sometimes a poll is worthy of it's own thread and often it is not. Eg II I think that there needs to be more than one obama thread but obviously not infinite obama threads.

ISIS is the biggest geopolitical things going over here at the moment, and so getting the information posted in an orderly fashion is in everyone's interest. So I'm open to ideas.

Here's a start. Hat tip Doc. Please circulate this to the various Democrat information screening bunkers out there.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-t ... ll-n202976
Nearly 70 percent of Americans say they lack confidence that the U.S. will achieve its goals in fighting the terrorist group ISIS, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Annenberg poll. The findings come in the wake of President Barack Obama’s national address announcing new measures to combat the Sunni militants.
It all comes down to the fate of Mosul Dam.
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Re: Most things ISIS thread

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Hey old boy, I was worried you'd worn yourself out to expiration, protesting so hard against the bloodthirsty neoconservative policies of barack hussein obama, good to see that you still draw breath. ;)

I think we're well past Mosul dam.
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The Islamic State

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May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The Islamic State

Post by Enki »

That makes my head hurt.
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The Islamic State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I'd like to lobby to move this thread to Current events since it is now an international subject.
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Re: How long before Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Post by Zack Morris »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Heads and shoulders above obama. When you get smoked by Sarah Palin, how do you come back from that.
Yeah, it would be really embarrassing to be smoked by Palin. Good thing that's only been realized in your imagination.
Well, in reality the GOP, of whom Palin is a member, is preferred for dealing with terrorism than Democrats by record numbers, and as a Republican I can say most people in the party agree with Palin. We learned the lessons from Bush, send in a large enough force, beat the bad guys and get out quickly. Oddly you are following the exact course of the man you hate, George Bush, but are going to do worse than he did. We can call you a Bushie now. Enjoy killing all of those brown children.

The smoking will come in a few months. November to be exact.
Maybe, but don't mistake this natural oscillation for a permanent shift toward the GOP. Or then again, why don't you go ahead and do just that. It'll make it all the more fun when the next Democratic president takes power.
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Re: How long before Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I wouldn't call it a natural oscillation, I would call it a return to decades old precedent. The GOP dominance of the issue is back on track and reaching record levels.

The Democrat you are running sounds just like George Bush on foreign policy. A bloodthirsty brown children killing neoconservative.

Speaking of oscillations.
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Re: How long before Iraq falls to Al Qaeda?

Post by Enki »

Zack Morris wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Heads and shoulders above obama. When you get smoked by Sarah Palin, how do you come back from that.
Yeah, it would be really embarrassing to be smoked by Palin. Good thing that's only been realized in your imagination.
Well, in reality the GOP, of whom Palin is a member, is preferred for dealing with terrorism than Democrats by record numbers, and as a Republican I can say most people in the party agree with Palin. We learned the lessons from Bush, send in a large enough force, beat the bad guys and get out quickly. Oddly you are following the exact course of the man you hate, George Bush, but are going to do worse than he did. We can call you a Bushie now. Enjoy killing all of those brown children.

The smoking will come in a few months. November to be exact.
Maybe, but don't mistake this natural oscillation for a permanent shift toward the GOP. Or then again, why don't you go ahead and do just that. It'll make it all the more fun when the next Democratic president takes power.
A permanent shift to the GOP is impossible. The demographics don't allow it.

On the other hand Democrats are becoming more Conservative, while if the LIbertarians become a force within the GOP we may see a flip on which party is the Conservative party and which is the Liberal party. I'd be right at home in a LIberal Republican party.
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The [Wannabe] Islamic State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

The Demographics are producing an all Republican majority as we speak. When Democrats start acting Republican people end up just voting for the Republican.

"Demographics favor the Democrats" goes back to FDR. First it was the white working class vote, which Democrats gave to us. Then it was the retiree vote, which Democrats gave to us. Now it looks like Democrats are handing us the Latino vote, which will permanently eliminate the Democrat Party.

Sooner the better.
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The [Wannabe] Islamic State

Post by Enki »

Mr. Perfect wrote:The Demographics are producing an all Republican majority as we speak. When Democrats start acting Republican people end up just voting for the Republican.
No, gerrymandering is.
"Demographics favor the Democrats" goes back to FDR. First it was the white working class vote, which Democrats gave to us. Then it was the retiree vote, which Democrats gave to us. Now it looks like Democrats are handing us the Latino vote, which will permanently eliminate the Democrat Party.

Sooner the better.
Sure, the Republican party has always been the minority party, but more likely to show up and vote. I will be very interested to see if the Latino vote goes R because I have seen no credible evidence that this is actually happening.
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Re: The Spread of the Caliphate: The [Wannabe] Islamic State

Post by Typhoon »

This Caliphatastan thread was moved here after a petition that it was current, topical, and international.

So please keep it on topic.

There are plenty of threads in the N Am section to debate Republicrats vs Demopublicans.
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