Multiculturalism

This too shall pass.

Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Typhoon » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:45 pm

WSJ | Some Countries See Migrants as an Economic Boon, Not a Burden

Canada focuses on assimilating educated foreigners who fill job needs, in sharp contrast to Europe


Peace, order, and good government.

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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Simple Minded » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:21 pm

Typhoon wrote:WSJ | Some Countries See Migrants as an Economic Boon, Not a Burden

Canada focuses on assimilating educated foreigners who fill job needs, in sharp contrast to Europe


Peace, order, and good government.

Paix, ordre, et bon gouvernement.


Running a country as a business seems sensible.

If they have the skills/desire to be productive, let them in. Current residents are like union members who shout "We were here first! We don't want reduced wages due to more competition." Or I don't want to pay for someone else's room and board.

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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby noddy » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:19 am

Typhoon wrote:WSJ | Some Countries See Migrants as an Economic Boon, Not a Burden

Canada focuses on assimilating educated foreigners who fill job needs, in sharp contrast to Europe


Peace, order, and good government.

Paix, ordre, et bon gouvernement.


same policy as australia.

its not a good policy and it doesnt benefit the country, its a cynical move to suck in as much money as it can to prop up the overpriced housing complex and the parasites which live off that.

its a short term solution to keep the entitled ones afloat in other peoples money, it will work until those countries are no longer attractive places to emmigrate too due to lack of economic oppurtunities for the next generation.

blah blah blah, but but but.

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real world outcomes shows whats happening, not the sugar coated lies the babbbling class talk about
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Typhoon » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:52 pm

noddy wrote:
Typhoon wrote:WSJ | Some Countries See Migrants as an Economic Boon, Not a Burden

Canada focuses on assimilating educated foreigners who fill job needs, in sharp contrast to Europe


Peace, order, and good government.

Paix, ordre, et bon gouvernement.


same policy as australia.

its not a good policy and it doesnt benefit the country, its a cynical move to suck in as much money as it can to prop up the overpriced housing complex and the parasites which live off that.



Don't quite follow how selecting for immigrants with skills in demand in the economy is bad policy.

noddy wrote:its a short term solution to keep the entitled ones afloat in other peoples money, it will work until those countries are no longer attractive places to emmigrate too due to lack of economic oppurtunities for the next generation.

blah blah blah, but but but.

Image


real world outcomes shows whats happening, not the sugar coated lies the babbbling class talk about


My understanding that, in Canada, this property bubble is being mainly driven by Chinese money, and others, seeking a safe haven.
The owners often foreigners who do not even reside in Canada.

It's a problem, as you noted, with a probably bust in the future.

One solution would be that one should at least be a permanent resident in order to own property.
The pro free market ideologues would probably object.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby noddy » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:28 am

certainly the chinese corruption money is a part of it but the professional middle class immigration is more so.

what it does is hide from the fact that neither canada nor australia have growing industries to create their own next generation of middle class so the only way the current entitled property owners can find a buyer for its over priced housing is to import them.

housing is the last industry in these countries that gives the appearance of high returns so all the super is tied up in it and it also provides good taxes to the local governments so they are desperate to push it along.

the young,working class and lower middle are being destroyed by this because instead of the market correcting back to something they can afford the governments keep increasing this cashed up immigration and propping up the market.

the resource boom for the last 20 years has left these countries highly leveraged and hollowed out, all they have left is to give up on the locals and try and bring in as many rich asians as possible :)

its not going to end well.

heres hoping canada gets that 1 in a million phone salesman who creates another shop.

----

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... e21071391/

this article seems to cover most of the argument - from chinese investors to rich foreigners and the way its pushing the locals out into ghettos, but to wory about that is called racism.

its not going to end well.

most likely outcome is poor whites turning into bitter critters like poor arabs and getting all explodey and full of nonsense about how their civilisation used to be the best, if it wasnt for those meddling foreigners.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Zack Morris » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:04 am

noddy wrote:the young,working class and lower middle are being destroyed by this because instead of the market correcting back to something they can afford the governments keep increasing this cashed up immigration and propping up the market.


It has little to do with government meddling and more to do with the fact that we simply don't need many people anymore. The industries of tomorrow create fewer and fewer jobs directly -- and the trickle-down effect is lessened, too. We could be only decades away from near complete automation, which will render most of humanity economically superfluous. Predictions to this effect have thus far proven laughably premature but in the grand scheme of things, we've arrived at this point via the Industrial Revolution in only the blink of an eye, and there is still no equilibrium in sight. When the dust clears -- if it clears -- what began as mere mechanization may prove to be even more profoundly transformative than any of us could possibly fathom.

In a globalized, networked world, consumer preferences seem to be rapidly converging. People aren't that different after all. It turns out that Africans and Chinese are largely just as enthralled by crappy superhero movies as Americans are. Our fashion, art, technology,and even daily rhythms of life are becoming essentially the same, meaning ever fewer producers are necessary.

most likely outcome is poor whites turning into bitter critters


Here in the US, we've had problems with Bitter Clingers for years and they seem to be getting worse. The Oregon outhouse siege is little more than a handful of Bitter Clingers demanding the government entertain their frontiersman fantasies by releasing millions of acres of pristine wilderness so that they can earn a living the "traditional" way: chopping down forests and leveling mountains to extract resources already selling at historically low prices that no one is buying.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:09 pm

Zack Morris wrote:
Here in the US, we've had problems with Bitter Clingers for years and they seem to be getting worse. The Oregon outhouse siege is little more than a handful of Bitter Clingers demanding the government entertain their frontiersman fantasies by releasing millions of acres of pristine wilderness so that they can earn a living the "traditional" way: chopping down forests and leveling mountains to extract resources already selling at historically low prices that no one is buying.


Sounds like the rural white rednecks are philosophically very similar to the urban black rednecks. Change is constant. Neither adapt well.

Kids seem to thrive on change, adults not so much. How to make adults more like kids.....
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby noddy » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:56 am

Zack Morris wrote:
noddy wrote:the young,working class and lower middle are being destroyed by this because instead of the market correcting back to something they can afford the governments keep increasing this cashed up immigration and propping up the market.


It has little to do with government meddling and more to do with the fact that we simply don't need many people anymore. The industries of tomorrow create fewer and fewer jobs directly -- and the trickle-down effect is lessened, too. We could be only decades away from near complete automation, which will render most of humanity economically superfluous. Predictions to this effect have thus far proven laughably premature but in the grand scheme of things, we've arrived at this point via the Industrial Revolution in only the blink of an eye, and there is still no equilibrium in sight. When the dust clears -- if it clears -- what began as mere mechanization may prove to be even more profoundly transformative than any of us could possibly fathom.


we are discussing canadian real estate and why the forces you describe above have not led to cheaper housing as the ability for locals to purchase that housing diminishes.

you are showing the exact contempt for the problem i try and describe, which is nice.

Zack Morris wrote:In a globalized, networked world, consumer preferences seem to be rapidly converging. People aren't that different after all. It turns out that Africans and Chinese are largely just as enthralled by crappy superhero movies as Americans are. Our fashion, art, technology,and even daily rhythms of life are becoming essentially the same, meaning ever fewer producers are necessary.


what the does this fashion statement have to do with house prices and people being kicked out of their own cities with short term policies ?

sure the cliche hard working immigrant thing helps for a generation or 2, maybe, for some, however these asian kids will end up without work and be unwanted excess soon enough.


Zack Morris wrote:
most likely outcome is poor whites turning into bitter critters


Here in the US, we've had problems with Bitter Clingers for years and they seem to be getting worse. The Oregon outhouse siege is little more than a handful of Bitter Clingers demanding the government entertain their frontiersman fantasies by releasing millions of acres of pristine wilderness so that they can earn a living the "traditional" way: chopping down forests and leveling mountains to extract resources already selling at historically low prices that no one is buying.



this is about your dislike of rural america and flyover country, which is nice, its not about policies that use imported money to hide from the fact the local economy isnt strong enough to maintain a living standard that those in charge believe they should have.

im just curious what happens when the pool of people who feel like aliens in their own country gets big enough and desperate enough - seems to me to be either a judge dredd hell hole or civil war.

which is nice.

apparently im meant to be looking forward to this, its double plus good.

---

i dont even really disagree with you that these are the likely outcomes.

i just dont see increased immigration being anything but a shortterm fix to help the current business class and landowner generation that leads to bigger problems furthur on.

my sense of the capacity for humans to be angels is fairly low, i havent seen that much of it in my lifetime, except for some remarkable individuals.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Typhoon » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:54 pm

chindit13

Recently a group of students lacking an officially recognized hyphen started a new fraternity at a Texas university. As a fund raiser, they decided to hold a concert. They chose a rapper as the entertainment. Immediately they had a grievance filed against them by various campus African-American students (a prominent hyphenated group) for something called ‘cultural appropriation’. They had committed a micro-aggression. Apparently, such a heinous act puts in jeopardy the academic performance of the offended group. Biochemistry must be more difficult than I remember.

Frat members refused to apologize, so the university co-opted the mea culpa on their behalf. Local media came calling for interviews and TV appearances, apparently to provide an avenue for hyphen-challenged frat boys to face the public shame many felt the members so richly deserved.

Is it possible that perhaps, just perhaps, we have moved into the parabolic final blow-off stage of political correctness? Is this Peak PC? Is micro-aggression the Synthetic CDO Squared of modern day social decorum? I have a sneaking feeling Dem candidate Martin O’Malley (#AllLivesMatter), Don Imus, and The Donald would say they hope I am right, though the first two gents would only say it off the record. Danger now apparently lies everywhere and with every word, like IEDs on the road to Ramadi. Skin is thinner than on the face of a nipped-and-tucked Beverly Hills matron.

This got me to thinking. George Orwell was only half right. The ugly future, according to him, was going to come either from fascist right wingers or commies. Instead it came from the pathologically politically correct. We have groupthink and thought crime, in addition to newspeak. We have forced contrition and mandatory re-education. Those who refuse are executed, at least professionally. We’re ALWAYS at war with Dead White Males.

Ironically, or perhaps not, this tolerance/perceived intolerance is a one way street. New Washington Nationals’ (baseball) manager Dusty Baker can say “I think we need more speed, so we need to look at trading for more African-American and Latino players.” Samuel L Jackson can say (about the San Bernardino massacre), “I was hoping it was some crazy white dude, ‘cause I don’t want a backlash against Moslems.” Does anyone think Mark Wahlberg could have gotten away with saying, again about San Bernardino, “I was hoping it was some crazy ghetto banger, ‘cause I don’t want a backlash…etc.” I don’t think so. As for Dusty Baker, the name Al Campanis comes to mind. Maybe Jimmy the Greek.

While mulling over the tale from the Texas fraternity, I saw a TV ad for a musical called The Wiz. I’m sure you are all familiar with it. The entire cast was black. Since I seem to remember that the original Oz was written by Dead White Male Frank Baum, and the characters were dirt poor Midwestern lily white farmers, I felt I had been micro-aggressed. I was filled with righteous indignation. Am I allowed that, or is that restricted to the eternally hyphenated?

On the news the other evening CBS ran a story about a deliberately all African-American orchestra that played European classics. Are not Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven and Handel the quintessential Dead White Males? Again, I felt micro-aggressed. MY culture is being appropriated.

Later in the evening I turned on TNT to catch a basketball game. Dr. James Naismith? Come on! I want the entire National Basketball Association shut down, because watching that game felt like a MACRO-aggression!

I want to fight back. I want a remake of Shaft, albeit this time with Pee Wee Herman in the lead role. I want Mandingo with Tobey Maguire, or maybe Richard Simmons. I want Roots II to be about the Bush family’s arrival in America, probably on the Mayflower and not on something like the Armistad. I even want William Shockley’s birthday to be made a national holiday, complete with sales everywhere from Home Depot to Harry Winston. I’m willing to give up Colt 45 via a legislated appropriation, so I’m not without some cultural sensitivity (sorry Samuel; RIP).

If not that, then I want…nay, DEMAND…my own hyphen, and not one of those phoofy British ones like in Rhys-Davies or ffrench-Blake. I want a real, honest-to-goodness one that immediately bestows victim status upon the user.

Hey Hey Ho Ho Micro-Aggression’s Got to Go!
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Simple Minded » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:25 am

Hats off to Chindit13, she/he sounds like VDH after a few beers.

The good part of "micro-aggressions" is they seem to be a sustainable, renewable source of energy that is in infinite supply.

None of us are properly sensitive unless we are continually offended.

The logical result of multi-culturalism, we are all equally offended and offensive.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Zack Morris » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:51 pm

noddy wrote:we are discussing canadian real estate and why the forces you describe above have not led to cheaper housing as the ability for locals to purchase that housing diminishes.


Because political systems change far more slowly. The forces I describe are occurring within an individualistic, capitalist framework that not only naturally distributes rewards to "useful" people, but does so in a highly non-linear and haphazard manner. Humans overcome these problems by organizing themselves and planning. That's how the earliest civilizations were formed after tens (even hundreds) of thousands of years of free-balling it in the wilderness.

We're nowhere near the point where we can grasp the full nature of the problem, let alone propose coherent solutions and then achieve societal consensus.

you are showing the exact contempt for the problem i try and describe, which is nice.


So what's your solution? Take a time machine back to the 19th century? Get real. There's only one way: forward (meaning novel solutions that are inherently risky).

what the does this fashion statement have to do with house prices and people being kicked out of their own cities with short term policies ?


It's that rapid march of change I mentioned rendering them powerless. They never had any more rights than they do now; the difference was simply that society was once more stable. The times now, they're a-changing!

And by the way, I would question that this situation is somehow new and unique. There have been plenty of times in history that people have been kicked out of their own cities with little to no notice.

this is about your dislike of rural america and flyover country, which is nice, its not about policies that use imported money to hide from the fact the local economy isnt strong enough to maintain a living standard that those in charge believe they should have.


Why have the locals let themselves become so dependent on the powers-in-charge (which they voted into office in the first place)? I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? Seems to me there was plenty of warning and you've just got a soft spot for people like yourself. At least here in the US, when it's colored folks suffering, nobody cares. It's their own fault. Personal responsibility. Bootstraps! Blah blah blah. But when it's suburban property owners, suddenly it's a problem?

I read somewhere that people most likely to commit suicide are those who have no one to blame for their problems but themselves, which could be why affluent whites are so much more likely to off themselves than downtrodden blacks.

im just curious what happens when the pool of people who feel like aliens in their own country gets big enough and desperate enough - seems to me to be either a judge dredd hell hole or civil war.


I don't think anything like that will happen. Folks have seen tougher times during the 20th century alone and it didn't quite play out that way. They could just end up living like most people do south of the border. Not quite Judge Dredd.

i just dont see increased immigration being anything but a shortterm fix to help the current business class and landowner generation that leads to bigger problems furthur on.


Maybe immigration will one day be unrestricted globally? As soon as everyone swarms to one place and makes it intolerable, the flow will change course. A self-rectifying problem in the long run ;)
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby noddy » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:35 am

Zack Morris wrote:
noddy wrote:we are discussing canadian real estate and why the forces you describe above have not led to cheaper housing as the ability for locals to purchase that housing diminishes.


Because political systems change far more slowly. The forces I describe are occurring within an individualistic, capitalist framework that not only naturally distributes rewards to "useful" people, but does so in a highly non-linear and haphazard manner. Humans overcome these problems by organizing themselves and planning. That's how the earliest civilizations were formed after tens (even hundreds) of thousands of years of free-balling it in the wilderness.

We're nowhere near the point where we can grasp the full nature of the problem, let alone propose coherent solutions and then achieve societal consensus.


agreed on that - which is why im pondering the unsavoury outcomes that are likely during this process and wondering if large scale immigration is helping or hindering those conversations.

Zack Morris wrote:
And by the way, I would question that this situation is somehow new and unique. There have been plenty of times in history that people have been kicked out of their own cities with little to no notice.


yep, sometimes they fade into the night with cultural suicide like the australian aborigines, sometimes they go out with a bang like the palestinians or other modern terrorit groups.



Zack Morris wrote: Why have the locals let themselves become so dependent on the powers-in-charge (which they voted into office in the first place)? I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? Seems to me there was plenty of warning and you've just got a soft spot for people like yourself. At least here in the US, when it's colored folks suffering, nobody cares. It's their own fault. Personal responsibility. Bootstraps! Blah blah blah. But when it's suburban property owners, suddenly it's a problem?


plenty of warning to do what ?

i think anyone cares about any of the poor groups, i just tend to the right wing because if my government is going to let me die in the street, it should atleast let me keep more of my own money.

not sure about the rest of it, im sure some folks talk like that in merkin politics, i certainly dont.




Zack Morris wrote:I don't think anything like that will happen. Folks have seen tougher times during the 20th century alone and it didn't quite play out that way. They could just end up living like most people do south of the border. Not quite Judge Dredd.


the brazilians ghettos or mexican narco burbs are pretty damn judge dreddd to me, i really cant see why id want that outcome for my country which currently has none of that.

the people who saw tougher times had tougher upbringings and more ability to live in that way, they arent the same people the modern west is full of.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby YMix » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:26 am

Image
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby NapLajoieonSteroids » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:49 pm

Zack Morris wrote:There have been plenty of times in history that people have been kicked out of their own cities with little to no notice.


Why have the locals let themselves become so dependent on the powers-in-charge (which they voted into office in the first place)? I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? Seems to me there was plenty of warning and you've just got a soft spot for people like yourself. At least here in the US, when it's colored folks suffering, nobody cares. It's their own fault. Personal responsibility. Bootstraps! Blah blah blah. But when it's suburban property owners, suddenly it's a problem?


I've seen this straight-to-video movie before, I think it was called:

Bayside High History Class with Mr.Belding or: How Zack Morris Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Imperialism&Colonialism

Folks have seen tougher times during the 20th century alone and it didn't quite play out that way.[/i]

yeah, 20th century man just grit his teeth and bore down at the changing circumstances around him. It wasn't like 20th century man freaked out, started two global conflicts and a third which veered perilously close to apocalyptic annihilation, killed himself by some very destructive means and then in his leisure time wrote essays about his own anomie and pointlessness.

Maybe immigration will one day be unrestricted globally? As soon as everyone swarms to one place and makes it intolerable, the flow will change course. A self-rectifying problem in the long run ;)


With more seriousness, I don't think we will have much of a choice in the not too distant future of limiting mass immigration, whether we like it or not. But right now we have a system where about two hundred groups of guys with guns keep the integrity of their little patch of earth with the popular backing of the people in those territories. Going for that to some sort of post-agricultural forager man will not be a pleasant situation for anyone; much less one where the whole globe will cooperate on a free for all solution.

As humans are medium term creatures, whatever happens is going to need medium-term solutions or who knows what sort of agitations develop.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby noddy » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:42 pm

i dont see what sensible has to do with anything.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of reality.
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:53 pm

noddy wrote:i dont see what sensible has to do with anything.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of reality.


If only sensible and reality were not both subjective........ :?
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby noddy » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:55 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:i dont see what sensible has to do with anything.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of reality.


If only sensible and reality were not both subjective........ :?


dunno about that.

is world war and chronic depression with people eating their pets subjective ?
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:21 pm

noddy wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:i dont see what sensible has to do with anything.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of reality.


If only sensible and reality were not both subjective........ :?


dunno about that.

is world war and chronic depression with people eating their pets subjective ?


I would say "yes." Others may disagree. ;)
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby noddy » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:24 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:i dont see what sensible has to do with anything.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of reality.


If only sensible and reality were not both subjective........ :?


dunno about that.

is world war and chronic depression with people eating their pets subjective ?


I would say "yes." Others may disagree. ;)


indeed.

ok

amend my original quote. to.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of other peoples versions of it (which you may not like).
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:52 pm

noddy wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:i dont see what sensible has to do with anything.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of reality.


If only sensible and reality were not both subjective........ :?


dunno about that.

is world war and chronic depression with people eating their pets subjective ?


I would say "yes." Others may disagree. ;)


indeed.

ok

amend my original quote. to.

sensible is fine, sometimes, between bouts of other peoples versions of it (which you may not like).


:D Agreed.

Bottom line: Infinite number of perspectives on anything. Each person choose's their own. I may or may not agree, but it is not up to me to force my own interpretation upon them. That would be just plain disrespectful on my part.

Whether or not I like or agree with their perspective or not is irrelevant. They really should not care whether I agree or not. They have their own reasons for choosing the perspectives they have chosen. I don't have access to all their data, they don't have access to all my data.

Celebrate diversity! ;)
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Doc » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:02 am

Mother of ten-year-old boy raped in Austrian swimming pool by Iraqi who said it was 'a sexual emergency' says she regrets telling her children 'migrants need our help'

Migrant, 20, claimed he raped the boy because it was a 'sexual emergency'
Raped boy in cubicle of Theresienbad pool - then went on the diving board
The victim's mother, Dunja, a refugee from Serbia, said she regrets telling her children that migrants need help
She said his defence as 'just monstrous' and that he should be deported


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -help.html
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx
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Re: Multiculturalism

Postby Brecher » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:04 pm

Elite New York school teaches kids that white babies are racist

I thought that white people had a high suicide rate already and that a lot of minorities hate white people already; but I guess it is never too soon to start.
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