Occupy the Globe

[Mr. Perfect]

The left has been itching for a race war for some time now, and I think they picked your back yard for ground zero. I think the only question is if there are enough blacks and Hispanics in the area to fight it.

LOL saying the left is the group itching for a race war is comical.

I hang out with Occupy the Hood with no problems.

If the locals in Florida gave a lavender about avoiding rioting, they'd just arrest Zimmerman and be done with it.

"Locals" can't arrest anybody Tinker.

The NYPD beat the lavender out a friend of mine who is a pretty white girl on Saturday, put her in the hospital. She's the sort of tough chick who is going to take it right to their throats and she's already started.

Well. Democrats. What can you do. I expect that civil war to go on for some time.

The left itching for a race war is comically out of touch. Not to mention it being cliche code for the person saying it being a racist. People like you have been saying it since MLK Jr. It says more about you than it does anyone else.

I don't know Tinker. If Hispanics and Blacks start getting into it I can't say that I couldn't see it coming.

You want to maintain the order part of Law & Order? Then enforce the Law part of it and arrest George Zimmerman.

I can't.

It would defuse the situation pretty quickly.

It's out of my hands.

[Mr. Perfect]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 1299.story

Jackson said that there is a mistaken assumption in some corners of America that all racial problems went away with the election of President Obama. "There was this feeling that we were kind of beyond racism," he said. "That's not true. His victory has triggered tremendous backlash."

He added: "Blacks are under attack."

Hmm Jesse, who is attacking the blacks I wonder?

[Mr. Perfect]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... QF20120323

"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said in his first comments about the shooting, acknowledging the racial element in the case.

Hmm Barack, who's child does Zimmerman look like, I wonder.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm sure the street execution of a hispanic man is going to go over well.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ther-party

Yesterday afternoon at a press conference, the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense circulated a “wanted dead or alive” poster for George Zimmerman for shooting to death a Florida teenager four weeks ago.

[Mr. Perfect]

I literally don't understand anybody who defends Zimmerman.

Well you can rest easy Ibs, doesn't appear to be anybody defending him.

His defense lawyer will though! Lawyers...

[Demon of Undoing]

Racism has been pathway to ending local power for the past half-century. The more agitated the local white folks get the more the Fed is going to stick their nose in and take local power away. 'You'll pry it from my cold dead hands!', is an amusing mantra, but the louder you say it, the more likely someone is going to test it by creeping inches year after year

.

First off, I'm not talking about anybody's team or advancing a side. I'm talking about people just being pissed enough at the huxters and what they represent to genuflect them up, and many nearby.

And the Feds are not going to take away local law enforcement. Other than a civil rights charge, they can't do much.

[Enki]

Racism has been pathway to ending local power for the past half-century. The more agitated the local white folks get the more the Fed is going to stick their nose in and take local power away. 'You'll pry it from my cold dead hands!', is an amusing mantra, but the louder you say it, the more likely someone is going to test it by creeping inches year after year

.

First off, I'm not talking about anybody's team or advancing a side. I'm talking about people just being pissed enough at the huxters and what they represent to genuflect them up, and many nearby.

And the Feds are not going to take away local law enforcement. Other than a civil rights charge, they can't do much.

They are disbanding local municipal incorporation all over the nation.

[Mr. Perfect]

I welcome their hubris. Let 'em take over whatever they think they can take over. Let's see what happens.

[Demon of Undoing]

Racism has been pathway to ending local power for the past half-century. The more agitated the local white folks get the more the Fed is going to stick their nose in and take local power away. 'You'll pry it from my cold dead hands!', is an amusing mantra, but the louder you say it, the more likely someone is going to test it by creeping inches year after year

.

First off, I'm not talking about anybody's team or advancing a side. I'm talking about people just being pissed enough at the huxters and what they represent to genuflect them up, and many nearby.

And the Feds are not going to take away local law enforcement. Other than a civil rights charge, they can't do much.

They are disbanding local municipal incorporation all over the nation.

Indeed, but they are doing so because the fat is off the body politic, and control ( at least here) devolves to the county. The bulk of these little pissant incorporations were so people could have developers throw money at them and play Burghermeister. I personally look forward to the good old days when calling the police meant a deputy forty minutes away, one who gave not a single damn about the 99% of trivialities that now require SWAT presence.

Just makes it more dangerous for Louis, far as I'm concerned. I'll see it set straight one way or the other within a calendar month, should such a thing touch on me.

[Mr. Perfect]

Well I like Jesse, Al and Lew are at the helm, time tested vote getters. One way or the other.

[Demon of Undoing]

And I'm sorry if I have an axe to grind with Louis, but that motherfucker killed Malcolm. Malcolm could have changed America.

[Ibrahim]

Indeed, but they are doing so because the fat is off the body politic, and control ( at least here) devolves to the county. The bulk of these little pissant incorporations were so people could have developers throw money at them and play Burghermeister. I personally look forward to the good old days when calling the police meant a deputy forty minutes away, one who gave not a single damn about the 99% of trivialities that now require SWAT presence.

The role of police is one of the more interesting questions raised by this issue. Aside from the shooting as isolated event there are three main issues that I can identify.

1. Racism. Zimmerman seems to have personally held some mildly racist opinions about blacks and crime, and used some inappropriate language, but that doesn't have any broader implications.

2. Gun laws. Interesting once, but a dead end now. This issue was settled years ago, most people have moved on.

3. Policing. The real cause of this shooting was Zimmerman believing his was some kind of junior cop, plus the city police response to the shooting, and their slightly-related questionable record with the black community.

It's the third one that I think Floridians and Americans need to spend the most time thinking about. Does somebody like Zimmerman exist in the absence of effective policing? Or is he enabled by the police? If a local police force has a record of discrimination how is that addressed in America today without everybody screaming "racist!" "reverse-racist!" "race-baiter!" and every talking head and grievance industry figure getting involved?

[Mr. Perfect]

It's the third one that I think Floridians and Americans need to spend the most time thinking about. Does somebody like Zimmerman exist in the absence of effective policing? Or is he enabled by the police? If a local police force has a record of discrimination how is that addressed in America today without everybody screaming "racist!" "reverse-racist!" "race-baiter!" and every talking head and grievance industry figure getting involved?

Every PD in America has a racist history. According to some. Or someone somewhere has a racial grievance or can provide racist examples for nearly PD in America. Sure you would know this.

Gun sales are going through the roof because of the general lack of faith of the gov't to do it's job when it matters. I expect an increase. Self policing in the US will grow by leaps and bounds for decades to come.

There is a pretty low ceiling on this one, but I think the justice brothers are going to get into it full bore regardless, and bounce off it many times before crawling back to their respective holes.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

With so many tourist coming to Florida, am really astonished not many more are killed

Tourist don't know and can not imagine those crazy laws in Florida, everybody armed on street and can kill anybody just by feeling threatened

IMVHO, immigration officers in Miami airport when stamping foreigners passport when entering US, should also give a pamphlet to each foreign passport holder, explaining Florida laws (of killing people), warning them

Tourists could sue US-immigration for not informing and warning them


.

[Mr. Perfect]

Azari, it is much more than that. The laws don't just allow it, but they encourage people to shoot people. The law is seven years old I think and there have actually been hundreds and hundreds of people slaughtered, we've just been keeping it quiet. This one slipped out on accident, all the other hundreds and hundreds of cases we covered up. Just the one in 7 years that slipped out. Just the one.

So much more dangerous than you think. I would advise many foreigners not to come here.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Azari, it is much more than that. The laws don't just allow it, but they encourage people to shoot people. The law is seven years old I think and there have actually been hundreds and hundreds of people slaughtered, we've just been keeping it quiet. This one slipped out on accident, all the other hundreds and hundreds of cases we covered up. Just the one in 7 years that slipped out. Just the one.

So much more dangerous than you think. I would advise many foreigners not to come here.

[monster_gardener]

.

With so many tourist coming to Florida, am really astonished not many more are killed

Tourist don't know and can not imagine those crazy laws in Florida, everybody armed on street and can kill anybody just by feeling threatened

IMVHO, immigration officers in Miami airport when stamping foreigners passport when entering US, should also give a pamphlet to each foreign passport holder, explaining Florida laws (of killing people), warning them

Tourists could sue US-immigration for not informing and warning them


.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

FWIW I remember some problems tourists had in Florida more that a few years back: were getting robbed in part because the rental car license plates made it obvious who was from out of town. Got so bad that England warned Brits against coming to Florida.

IIRC the license plate problem was corrected and pressure from businesses affected by the loss of tourist trade forced increased policing resulting in the capture of some of the perps including one notorious bandida with the street name of "Gangsta Bitch" so again IIRC things got back to more or less normal for while.......

Again FWIW, like the Brits, our State Department does post traveler warnings for other countries and IIRC sometimes US too......

Here's the general link and a link for the travel warning for Iran.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _1764.html

I mention Iran because IIRC you are based in Canada.

Don't know offhand if Canada has dual citizenship or if you are one but per the advisory Iran does NOT recognize dual citizenship

Be safe.......... Hopefully the mad mullahs won't bust you if they find out you've had a beer while overseas or expressed a contrary view

Iran
October 21, 2011

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens to carefully consider the risks of travel to Iran. Dual national Iranian-American citizens may encounter difficulty in departing Iran. U.S. citizens should stay current with media coverage of local events and carefully consider nonessential travel. The Travel Warning for Iran issued October 8, 2010 has been reviewed and reissued without change.

Some elements in Iran remain hostile to the United States. As a result, U.S. citizens may be subject to harassment or arrest while traveling or residing in Iran. Since 2009, Iranian authorities have prevented the departure, in some cases for several months, of a number of Iranian-American citizens, including journalists and academics, who traveled to Iran for personal or professional reasons. Iranian authorities also have unjustly detained or imprisoned U.S. citizens on various charges, including espionage and posing a threat to national security. U.S. citizens of Iranian origin should consider the risk of being targeted by authorities before planning travel to Iran. Iranian authorities deny the U.S. Interests Section in Tehran access to imprisoned dual national Iranian-American citizens because Iranian authorities consider them to be solely Iranian citizens; access to U.S. citizens is often denied as well.

The Iranian government continues to repress some minority religious and ethnic groups, including Baha'i, Arabs, Kurds, Azeris, and others. Consequently, some areas within the country where these minorities reside, including the Baluchistan border area near Pakistan and Afghanistan, the Kurdish northwest of the country, and areas near the Iraqi border, remain unsafe. U.S. citizens who travel to Iran should exercise caution.

The U.S. government does not have diplomatic or consular relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran and therefore cannot provide protection or routine consular services to U.S. citizens in Iran. The Swiss government, acting through its Embassy in Tehran, serves as protecting power for U.S. interests in Iran. Neither U.S. passports nor visas to the United States are issued in Tehran. The Iranian government does not recognize dual citizenship and will not allow the Swiss to provide protective services for U.S. citizens who are also Iranian nationals. Iranian authorities have detained and harassed U.S. citizens of Iranian origin. Former Muslims who have converted to other religions, as well as persons who encourage Muslims to convert, are subject to arrest and prosecution.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _5583.html

Maybe Canada has likewise..........

Bingo............ Similar to US warning............

OFFICIAL WARNING: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against non-essential travel to Iran.

Canadians face some risks in Iran. Iranian authorities are suspicious of foreigners, including Canadians, and any behaviour, such as the use of cameras and cellular phones in public places, is misinterpreted. Canadians are advised to avoid discussing political and human rights issues with strangers and making critical comments against the Iranian Spiritual Leader, the Head of State or the government of Iran. Canadians can be questioned, arrested, and detained for a long period without apparent reason. Canadians travelling alone or beyond conventional tourist sites are particularly vulnerable to such treatment by Iranian authorities.

The ability of the Embassy of Canada in Tehran to provide consular assistance to Canadians who are arrested or detained is very limited. In some cases, Iranian authorities have not permitted the embassy to have consular access to detainees. Canadians should therefore register with Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada.

Dual Nationals

The Government of Iran does not recognize the Canadian citizenship of Canadian-Iranian dual nationals. As a result, Iran does not allow the Embassy of Canada in Tehran to provide consular assistance to an Iranian-Canadian in difficulty.

Numerous cases have been reported of a Canadian or dual-national woman being stranded in Iran or mistreated by her Iranian husband or a male member of her family. Women in difficulty should know that the Embassy of Canada in Tehran cannot intervene in family matters.

See Section 8 of this Travel Report for more information on dual nationality.

Demonstrations

Political demonstrations and gatherings occur. On several occasions, demonstrations resulted in violent clashes. People near demonstrations have been assaulted, and deaths have been reported. Further incidents of political unrest may occur with little warning.

Canadians are advised to monitor developments closely, avoid all gatherings and demonstrations and to stay away from areas where they occur, as they may become violent without warning.

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/ ... ?id=132000





To be fair let's check the Canadian warning for US.........

WOW! Lots of data.......... too much to post here............ Most not too serious but...........

Street crime can spill over into commercial, hotel, and entertainment areas. Riots, though rare, occasionally occur; these are usually confined to the poorer districts of major cities, but the violence can spread to central commercial and hotel areas. Full cooperation is recommended when stopped by police.

Violent crime remains a serious concern in Florida. Criminals have demonstrated that they will use violence with little or no provocation. Many attacks have occurred in the Miami area, and others have taken place on rural roads and at interstate highway rest areas. Some rest areas have dusk-to-dawn security on site (which is indicated on the highway sign). Proceed cautiously when exiting a freeway (including Interstate 95) into large urban centres, especially after dusk. Theft has increased, particularly from trunks of parked cars in the North Miami Beach area, South Beach and at airports. Be alert, as criminals use a variety of techniques to steal personal belongings.

Passport theft is on the rise in the United States. Travellers should ensure that their travel documents are secure at all times.

Under U.S. law, foreign nationals do not have the same rights as American citizens. When attempting to enter the U.S. (border crossing or airport) and while a determination is being made by U.S. authorities on your admissibility, you could be held for an extended period of time. If you are deemed inadmissible, there may be delays before you are returned to your point of departure or country of nationality.

If you have a criminal record, no matter the severity or the date of the offence, you may be refused entry to the United States. You may also experience problems when travelling through U.S. airport facilities. A pardon for an offence issued by Canadian authorities is not recognized under U.S. law for the purpose of entry into the United States.

This is interesting......... A US sentence can be served in a Canadian jail........ Could make it easier for family to visit.......

A serious violation may lead to a jail sentence or, in some states, a death sentence. The jail sentence will be served in local prisons. Canada and the United States do, however, have a treaty that permits a Canadian imprisoned in the United States to request a transfer to Canada to complete the sentence in a Canadian prison. The transfer requires the agreement of both Canadian and American authorities. Canadian citizenship confers no immunity, special protection, or rights to preferential treatment.

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/ ... ?id=308000

FWIW,

Your Monstrous Friend
MG

[Demon of Undoing]

You know what's happened since the high water mark of tourist crime, what happened in the intervening time that also saw the drop in rates occur subsequently?

Concealed weapons permits. To a lesser extent, the castle doctrine. Wrap your head around that one.

[monster_gardener]

You know what's happened since the high water mark of tourist crime, what happened in the intervening time that also saw the drop in rates occur subsequently?

Concealed weapons permits. To a lesser extent, the castle doctrine. Wrap your head around that one.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Demon.

Tend to agree....

And isn't there a town in Florida where it is required that all be armed or get a Permit NOT to have a gun
IIRC the town has a very low crime rate........


But where I live AIUI concealed carry means that you need to be very Mind Your Own Business ... can protect YOURSELF but not intervene in the disputes of others....

No Paladin role playing with concealed carry as opposed to open carry...........

And AIUI doesn't Castle doctrine mean you pretty much need to be your castle and the intruders in the process of entering even if still outside.......

So IMVHO Zimmermann should have studied the meaning of his name in German.......... and stayed IN his room watching or drawing cartoons

Suspect that Zimmerman is going to be spending a lot of time in his room if he makes it to trial.........

Even Hannity has thrown him under the bus though Sean did say "Remember Richard Jewel".............

And Sean IMHO seems more outraged by the agitators afterward than in the original atrocity...........

[Ibrahim]

You know what's happened since the high water mark of tourist crime, what happened in the intervening time that also saw the drop in rates occur subsequently?

Concealed weapons permits. To a lesser extent, the castle doctrine. Wrap your head around that one.

The same drop occurred in other Western nations that didn't adopt these measures, and we don't see a drop in crime in developing countries with plenty of AKs and machetes kicking around. Social scientists sometimes argue that it is due to the success of preventative policing measures and community engagement, but I think somebody already pointed out that those two decades or so were the richest and most peaceful in human history (not a challenge to top most of history, but still) and that this translated to less crime at home in the comfortable nations. A crass answer, but a convincing one.

[Demon of Undoing]

Sure. But as I posted on the issue in the guns thread, my point is not that guns make us safer as a whole( ie dropping crime rates). Instead, my contention is that they make us safer as individuals ( better to have the option of self defense than not, on an individual level), but don't make us appreciably less safe as a society.See my post to Sparky on the breakdown ( can't do copypasta, on phone).

In light of the negligible impact of gun violence among those not involved in America's own long running LIC, their carry and use can be tolerated. Even their zealous use, as long as it is within a framework of legally delineated responsibility. I could have done exactly what Z wanted to do ( stop and interrogate), and not have had to even let the kid know I had a gun. Would have been both legal to do so and even reasonable ( it's his neighborhood, they'd had problems, and I encourage taking ownership of your grid square). It just can't be done that way.

I think at the least, he's liable to negligent manslaughter. He intentionally inserted himself into a high- risk situation without the necessary training or experience for what he intended to accomplish. It would be the same if he'd tried to operate a crane in a busy downtown with lethal consequences. It can be done, just not by his Pilsbury ass.

[Ibrahim]

Sure. But as I posted on the issue in the guns thread, my point is not that guns make us safer as a whole( ie dropping crime rates). Instead, my contention is that they make us safer as individuals ( better to have the option of self defense than not, on an individual level), but don't make us appreciably less safe as a society.See my post to Sparky on the breakdown ( can't do copypasta, on phone).

I don't know how you would measure this. What are the guiding statistics? Anecdotal evidence ("man shoots robber" headlines, etc) don't get us anywhere. If you and I pass one another on the street, and we safer if we are both armed? Neither armed? One of us armed? It's like some medieval logic problem that can be argued equally well from any side.

In light of the negligible impact of gun violence among those not involved in America's own long running LIC, their carry and use can be tolerated.

This actually raises another problematic social issue. We can agree that guns themselves don't bring safety and security, but guns in the hands of "certain people." The model of "responsible gun owners" as opposed to "gang bangers" other other undesirables is inevitably going to have racial and socio-economic overlaps that have even more distressing implications.

Even their zealous use, as long as it is within a framework of legally delineated responsibility. I could have done exactly what Z wanted to do ( stop and interrogate), and not have had to even let the kid know I had a gun. Would have been both legal to do so and even reasonable ( it's his neighborhood, they'd had problems, and I encourage taking ownership of your grid square). It just can't be done that way.

My understanding of events is that Zimmerman didn't pull his weapon until his interrogation had escalated into a fight, which he might have been getting the worse of. This is why his self-defense legal position may work. He provoked a fight, started to lose it, and on the basis that he thought he might get killed by this black youth, gunned him down. If he approached weapon-up that would be another matter again. Florida law allows for more subtlety in determining his intent and frame of mind, which ultimately means who the jury finds sympathetic.

Really it's Zimmerman's bad luck for shooting a relatively spotless character. If he'd shot an innocent black youth who, say, had a marijuana arrest or was dropout, he'd have a much better chance of getting off. If we was an actual cop he'd definitely walk, maybe lose his job at best. These are the vagaries that influence criminal trials.

I think at the least, he's liable to negligent manslaughter. He intentionally inserted himself into a high- risk situation without the necessary training or experience for what he intended to accomplish. It would be the same if he'd tried to operate a crane in a busy downtown with lethal consequences. It can be done, just not by his Pilsbury ass.

He has to go away under any civilized legal framework, but the specific laws that will sink him are very different depending on where you live. The way I look at it is very Canadian, and follows Canadian law, you take the American approach with American firearms laws as the guide. As is to be expected.

[Demon of Undoing]

I don't know how you would measure this. What are the guiding statistics? Anecdotal evidence ("man shoots robber" headlines, etc) don't get us anywhere. If you and I pass one another on the street, and we safer if we are both armed? Neither armed? One of us armed? It's like some medieval logic problem that can be argued equally well from any side.

Doesn't even go to statistics, but general principles. If you and I are both legally armed and behaving legally, not only do I have nothing to fear, but I welcome your presence. If you are armed, but not so lawful, then I am absolutely the better off for having the option to be armed, too. I can be, as a law abiding citizen, disarmed. As a practical matter, Outlaw Ibrahim can not. More choices+ more capability is almost never a bad thing. Well, at least, for me. But what is good for me ain't necessarily good for a regular human bein'.

This actually raises another problematic social issue. We can agree that guns themselves don't bring safety and security, but guns in the hands of "certain people." The model of "responsible gun owners" as opposed to "gang bangers" other other undesirables is inevitably going to have racial and socio-economic overlaps that have even more distressing implications.

I don't see the problem. I don't want to take guns out of anybody's hands except those the law does not allow to have them. A gang banger that I want disarmed has exactly the same profile as Barney Fife wannabes with a conviction for felony theft- they broke the law. Until Upgradd( with two D's, for a double dose of the pimping) is convicted of a felony, he's just a dude presumed innocent. I shoot with these guys sometimes, give them tips. Black people with A's hats and hoodies deserve to be able to legally defend themselves, too. Hell, they are more likely to need it than I.

My understanding of events is that Zimmerman didn't pull his weapon until his interrogation had escalated into a fight, which he might have been getting the worse of. This is why his self-defense legal position may work. He provoked a fight, started to lose it, and on the basis that he thought he might get killed by this black youth, gunned him down. If he approached weapon-up that would be another matter again. Florida law allows for more subtlety in determining his intent and frame of mind, which ultimately means who the jury finds sympathetic.

Really it's Zimmerman's bad luck for shooting a relatively spotless character. If he'd shot an innocent black youth who, say, had a marijuana arrest or was dropout, he'd have a much better chance of getting off. If we was an actual cop he'd definitely walk, maybe lose his job at best. These are the vagaries that influence criminal trials.

My understanding was that he was under suspension. That may suffice. This is the 21st century, after all.


Generally, to shoot an unarmed person, there has to be significant disparity of force. Shooting because you are losing a fight ( especially one you started or reasonably could have avoided) is not going to be cleared. The conflict is if he can show a reasonable fear to a jury, as you say. I don't think he can win that.

[Demon of Undoing]

Oh, man. Do not act like a Black Panther in Central Florida, officially, as of now.. It is no longer safe.

Trayvon Martin case: New Black Panthers offer $10,000 bounty for capture of George Zimmerman

ANFORD — Members of the New Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for the "capture" of George Zimmerman, leader Mikhail Muhammad announced during a protest in Sanford today.

When asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly saying: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

The bounty announcement came moments after members of the group called for the mobilization of 10,000 black men to capture George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin last month.

Muhammad said members of his group would search for Zimmerman themselves in Maitland and Jacksonville -- where the 28-year old worked before the shooting, employees there told the Orlando Sentinel. But he declined to say when they will begin their hunt.

Oh, you stupid, stupid bastards. This is not good. At all.

[Demon of Undoing]

... Aaand now I got bikers calling me, asking how to get hold of AR15s. Completely legally, of course.

Told you.