Substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Postby AzariLoveIran » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:07 pm
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“ Speak Truth ”



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For Jews and Christians, a holiday 'season of rapprochement'

The Hanukkah and Christmas holidays coincide amid a season of Jewish and Christian bridge-building, as evidenced, in part, by a recent surprise bestseller on Amazon.

By Gloria Goodale, Staff writer

posted December 22, 2011 at 5:56 pm EST

Los Angeles

This year’s Hanukkah and Christmas seasons coincide amid what many scholars and religious figures alike are calling a notable period of reconciliation and bridge-building between Jewish and Christian communities.

“The Jewish Annotated New Testament,” written by Jewish scholars and warmly received by top religious scholars and general readers alike, was a surprise bestseller earlier this month, selling out on Amazon, and is still hovering among the top recommended reads.

Co-editor Amy-Jill Levine, a Vanderbilt University Bible scholar, says the book, which puts the writing and writers of the New Testament into a Jewish context, has led already to substantial conversations between Jews and Christians, including seminars and high-profile interfaith meetings.

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This caps at least a decade of mutual Christian and Jewish outreach, during which The Institute for Christian and Jewish Studies in Baltimore sponsored an event that led to what Professor Levine calls a remarkable statement, entitled “Speak Truth” and signed by nearly 170 rabbis and Jewish professors.

The document, first published in The New York Times, affirms eight major areas of agreement between Christians and Jews, including the assertion that both accept the moral principles of the Torah, both seek authority from the same book and both believe in the same God.

“Speak Truth,” or “Dabru Emet” in Hebrew, “was followed up by ‘A Sacred Obligation: A Christian Statement on Jews and Judaism,’ ” Levine points out.

“This is a season of rapprochement,” says Alan Brill, chair of Jewish-Christian Studies at Seton Hall University, in South Orange, New Jersey. This increased dialogue has been fueled in part by information from recent archeological findings, including the Dead Sea scrolls dating back to 1947, finally working its way into mainstream Jewish and Christian scholarship, points out Professor Brill.

There have been pivotal, historic moments, such as the decision of the Second Vatican Council – the three-year gathering (1962-65) to address the Catholic Church’s relationship to the modern world – to officially absolve the Jewish people for any responsibility for the death of Jesus, as well as Christian expressions of support for the state of Israel. These moves have paved the way for greater shared respect for mutual history as well as different traditions. “It is an exciting time,” Brill adds.

Christian scholars share an interest in understanding Jesus in the context of history, says Silviu Bunta, assistant professor of religious studies at the Catholic University of Dayton in Ohio, who says there is a growing convergence of the current Jewish and Christian understanding of Jesus.

In ancient Judaism, he says, there was no single way of reading the Torah and Jesus’ manner of interpreting the Biblical text does not fall outside of Jewish interpretations at the time. Christian students of the same period have come to rediscover Jesus’ humanity and Jewishness, he says, adding, “Christian scholars are becoming more and more comfortable with viewing Jesus as a product of Judaism.”

Growing cultural trends such as interfaith marriage support this growing openness, says Rabbi Yitzchak Wyne, founder of Young Israel Aish, an Orthodox Jewish community synagogue in Las Vegas, and author of, “Life Is Great!: Revealing the 7 secrets of a more joyful you!”

“We have a greater level of interfaith marriage today than at almost any other time in history,” he says. With the advent of Israel, “we are in a much more liberal time, with Christians being more accepting of Jewish traditions and families celebrating many traditions,” he says, adding that he just finished counseling a woman married to a non-Jewish man. “They will go home and light the menorah this week and then on Sunday head over to his mother’s house for Christmas dinner.”

Concern over watering down of religious observances and principles must be balanced against tolerance for different beliefs, he says.

“Christian and Jewish traditions are coming closer together,” says Chaplain Paul Fullmer, Religion & Philosophy professor at Lebanon Valley College in Annville, Penn.

“Particularly as Christians begin to appreciate the value of reading Christian teachings ‘with Jewish eyes,’ community-based celebrations of a Seder meal, Purim, or Sukkoth are becoming opportunities for education, understanding, and on-going relationship,” says Professor Fullmer, noting that he sees the shifting attitudes among his students as they are exposed to newer ideas.

“ ‘How can a Jewish person not believe in Jesus?’ a student asked me recently,” he says. “ ‘Haven’t they read Isaiah 52 to 53?’

“At a Seder meal held on our campus, that student came to understand how the Suffering Servant in these passages is understood by many Jews as representing the Jewish community as a whole,” he says. Jewish-Christian celebrations and other opportunities through which Jewish and Christian community grow closer together matter, he says, “to the extent that they help Christians to appreciate the Jewish approach to faith, and vice versa.”

And in his forthcoming book, “Kosher Jesus,” Orthodox Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, also reexamines the historic Jesus, suggesting that a better understanding of his actual historic role helps both faiths.

“We need to rediscover the humanity of Jesus,” he says, adding, “we need to understand more about what he actually said about how we should live and act.”

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

Postby lzzrdgrrl » Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:36 am
My opinion, I don't think knowing anything more about the historical Jesus would materially alter the Promise made through the Covenant and the Resurrection......

I am much more interested in THIS substantial conversation between seculars and believing Jews and Christians: Why are seculars so blasé about the promise and necessity of eternal life? Why does it mean so little to them and do people of faith actually understand what the promise the advent of the Christ was to fulfill, even is?........

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians
Postby AzariLoveIran » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:10 am
lzzrdgrrl wrote:.

My opinion, I don't think knowing anything more about the historical Jesus would materially alter the Promise made through the Covenant and the Resurrection ......

I am much more interested in THIS substantial conversation between seculars and believing Jews and Christians: Why are seculars so blasé about the promise and necessity of eternal life? Why does it mean so little to them and do people of faith actually understand what the promise the advent of the Christ was to fulfill, even is ? .......

.


Look folks

heart of the matter is whether one believes there is a G_d

if there is, humanity and morality and ethic become immaterial, as will of G_d is what effects the event (notion G_d leaves the events to us just an excuse)

and

if there is G_d

who says G_d, the creator of universe, is a good guy in our sense, humanity and moral and ethics

in fact

the law of universe and world, a small sample being the rule of animal kingdom on earth, attest G_d must have different mindset than we envision

well

humanity and moral and ethics and good and bad only start to make sense if one assumes there is no G_d

if so

those metrics becomes a matter of human domain

and if so,

Covenant and the Resurrection and things of that nature become sort of a conspiracy against humanity


.

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

Postby Endovelico » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:09 pm
Man doesn't like leaving any questions unanswered. God is the answer for everything for which we can't yet find any other answer. That's perfect with me. What is disturbing is the image religions have created of their God. A God who insists on my not eating pork, or not cutting the hair from my temples, or not having sex before marriage, would be a crazy God indeed. People who believe in such a God are a danger to us all.

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

Postby lzzrdgrrl » Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:36 am
My opinion, I don't think knowing anything more about the historical Jesus would materially alter the Promise made through the Covenant and the Resurrection......

I am much more interested in THIS substantial conversation between seculars and believing Jews and Christians: Why are seculars so blasé about the promise and necessity of eternal life? Why does it mean so little to them and do people of faith actually understand what the promise the advent of the Christ was to fulfill, even is?........

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Thank you VERY Much for your post, LzzrdGrrl.
Why are seculars so blasé about the promise and necessity of eternal life?
I have a possible answer from a evangelical/fundi perspective...........

"the promise" can be somewhat menacing.........

Heaven probably sounds mildly nice to boring......... but Hell is Absolutely AWFUL* ...............

It's quite comforting NOT to have to worry about eternal damnation.............


Another aspect is simply the "eternal" aspect itself..........

For some it is hard to imagine that anything can go on forever or that you would want it too. I remember Issac Asimov writing about this............


What do you mean the by "necessity" of eternal life?


*unless you are a seriously into pain sub and maybe not even then.........Remembering a IIRC New Twilight Zone episode in which a biker into the whips and chains arrives in Hell expecting PAIN only to be bored to tears by a bunch of boring suburban devils one with a slide show, another a farmer rambling about farm life etc.......... The Neighbors from Hell :wink: NOT........... Biker would have liked them better.... :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighbors_from_Hell
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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Anything recommended by Professor Levine should be considered. The woman is brilliant.
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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Thank you, MG. I don't consider eternal damnation at all. Life on this planet here and now, is Hell. Now, before anybody suggests I up my meds, my definition is arbitrary and without reference. The reason I don't consider 'eternal damnation' is because it's too convenient a category. What I want is LIFE and not to be dead. This is precious to me, but we tend to define great benefits through great risks. We can't imagine that G_d would give us such a great boon without a corresponding grievous punishment. This is simple thinking and not scriptural......

The reason why i'm willing to consider life here as hell is because it meets rather basic requirements. It begins absurdly and ends rather pointlessly. Blessing and curses are dispensed without rhyme nor reason. Temporal justice seems truncated and incomplete. We really can't imagine better, though we can see that this life here is sorta...... butt........
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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Thank you, MG. I don't consider eternal damnation at all. Life on this planet here and now, is Hell. Now, before anybody suggests I up my meds, my definition is arbitrary and without reference. The reason I don't consider 'eternal damnation' is because it's too convenient a category. What I wan t is LIFE and not to be dead. This is precious to me, but we tend to define great benefits through great risks. We can't imagine that G_d would give us such a great boon without a corresponding grievous punishment. This is simple thinking and not scriptural......

The reason why i'm willing to consider life here as hell is because it meets rather basic requirements. It begins absurdly and ends rather pointlessly. Blessing and curses are dispensed without rhyme nor reason. Temporal justice seems truncated and incomplete. We really can't imagine better, though we can see that this life here is sorta...... butt........
Thank you VERY Much for your post Miss Faucie/LzzrdGrrl.
Life on this planet here and now, is Hell.
To the limited extent that I understand, some Buddhists such as Nagarjuna claim pretty much the same thing but in reverse: this world, properly viewed is/can be Nirvana/Paradise.........

BUT that implies that improperly viewed, it is/can be a Hell world............
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:The reason why i'm willing to consider life here as hell is because it meets rather basic requirements. It begins absurdly and ends rather pointlessly.
Ok, so we live in Hell. What to do, go on strike? Develop better pain killers? Believe in Luuuuuv? Open up to Jesus?

Maybe some new Occupy movement? If so (I like this option), the question is - where we put up tent?
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Re: Substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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It is a direction. Hell is not necessarily defined by pain, chaos and suffering. It can be a very pleasant place, in a lotus-eater way and it could well remain so until we are not anymore. Hell is defined by extinction and the utter irrelevance of the self. Moving towards the Godhead is the antitheses of that. Heaven and Hell comes out of the Ein Sof, but we move in the direction from nothingness towards being. Me, I would like to travel through the Tree of Life to attain the Ten Sephirot......
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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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monster_gardener wrote:
Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Thank you, MG. I don't consider eternal damnation at all. Life on this planet here and now, is Hell. Now, before anybody suggests I up my meds, my definition is arbitrary and without reference. The reason I don't consider 'eternal damnation' is because it's too convenient a category. What I wan t is LIFE and not to be dead. This is precious to me, but we tend to define great benefits through great risks. We can't imagine that G_d would give us such a great boon without a corresponding grievous punishment. This is simple thinking and not scriptural......

The reason why i'm willing to consider life here as hell is because it meets rather basic requirements. It begins absurdly and ends rather pointlessly. Blessing and curses are dispensed without rhyme nor reason. Temporal justice seems truncated and incomplete. We really can't imagine better, though we can see that this life here is sorta...... butt........
Thank you VERY Much for your post Miss Faucie/LzzrdGrrl.
Life on this planet here and now, is Hell.
To the limited extent that I understand, some Buddhists such as Nagarjuna claim pretty much the same thing but in reverse: this world, properly viewed is/can be Nirvana/Paradise.........

BUT that implies that improperly viewed, it is/can be a Hell world............
My apologies, Miss Faucie/LizzrdGrrl, if this seemed smug or preachy. I too, am in Wario World ;) oops I mean Mappo World :( where you normally need Somebody to help you get out............... I sure do........................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wario_World

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappo
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Re: Substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:It is a direction. Hell is not necessarily defined by pain, chaos and suffering. It can be a very pleasant place, in a lotus-eater way and it could well remain so until we are not anymore. Hell is defined by extinction and the utter irrelevance of the self. Moving towards the Godhead is the antitheses of that. Heaven and Hell comes out of the Ein Sof, but we move in the direction from nothingness towards being. Me, I would like to travel through the Tree of Life to attain the Ten Sephirot......
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Re: Substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:It is a direction. Hell is not necessarily defined by pain, chaos and suffering. It can be a very pleasant place, in a lotus-eater way and it could well remain so until we are not anymore. Hell is defined by extinction and the utter irrelevance of the self. Moving towards the Godhead is the antitheses of that. Heaven and Hell comes out of the Ein Sof, but we move in the direction from nothingness towards being. Me, I would like to travel through the Tree of Life to attain the Ten Sephirot......
But is that Sephirot road on which you travel pre-paved...to be found on once revealed maps and with best-practice guidelines and survival tricks that already served many as a proven record? It might not be the case.... At least it not is for me. I can trust people who tell me they know how to build a house and prove it to me after which I may decide to do and learn the same. In the world of revelations, holy claims... however... I'd have to go on blind faith, and call it a virtue. But if you consider yourself in an unpaved land with only vague notions of where you are and where to go.. you can always start slashing your own path to where your instincts drive you. If you then suddenly discover that you do a Ten Spheridot journey in fact, at least you can call it your own. Well, that's my privy take on these matters. Don't believe anything, reject everything and just start slashing through making your own path.

Probably not a coincidence, my favorit book as a kid was Harold and the Purple Crayon because I liked the drawings so much. With his crayon he created his own world, the road he was on... everything.

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Re: Substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

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Parodite I can see the Sephiroth in my day to day life in my mind's eye, I can see interconnections between things, and it really helps to imagine it as an actual tree. You are bound in the sense that you grow from already existing branches and your ability to act is limited by such binding, but there is plenty of open and empty space to bud and grow into.
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Re: substantial conversations between Jews and Christians

Postby Endovelico » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:09 pm
Man doesn't like leaving any questions unanswered. God is the answer for everything for which we can't yet find any other answer. That's perfect with me. What is disturbing is the image religions have created of their God. A God who insists on my not eating pork, or not cutting the hair from my temples, or not having sex before marriage, would be a crazy God indeed. People who believe in such a God are a danger to us all.

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Thank you Very Much for your post, Endovelico.
A God who insists on my not eating pork, or not cutting the hair from my temples, or not having sex before marriage, would be a crazy God indeed.
How about a god or gods who eat pork, have long hair all over, are not down on premarital sex* and also are willing to defend the value of an extra-marital affair or so **

The down side is that the Big Boss is desperate to stay in power as long as possible and and will do almost anything to do so: promote war, some human sacrifice etc. .. He's afraid that his enemies are worse......... and maybe they are...........

They do like sporting contests. They especially like to go a-hiking or is a-viking :wink:

His people, at times, have been pretty big on raiding the people of the no pork, no premarital sex for anybody G_d........

Sea raiders rather like the followers of the no pork, no premarital sex for women desert Moon god...........

I have seen places where these gods are still worshiped...............

Or Gods that are desperately trying to hold off the end of the universe as we know it every 55 years by both literal self-immolation and human sacrifice on perhaps the most massive scale even seen: they promote war too but with the twist that they try not to kill in can sacrifice later......... it's heart rending ;) :twisted: :cry:

Indications are that some are trying to revive this crew too..........

Next scheduled date :wink: for the end of the universe: 2012 Dec 21...............

Hope you're not too Thor*** oops I mean sore at these examples...........

*Have read that they/their followers thought premarital sex a good way to make sure a woman is fertile and thus worth marrying...............

**Having a BIG :wink: gal willing to loan you her armor and weapons when you're in a fix can be a life saver......... Mark that down on your Grid :wink:.

***Not a real bad guy really: more like a violent version of Fred Flinstone :wink: who can turn giants into Rubble :wink:. Pals around with the common man: Into goat BBQs Big Time.... Let's his pal Lokey Lye-Smith persuade him to go a wedding in drag for a good cause **** ....... Favorite song: "If I had a Hammar" :wink: ....... .... Not the brightest bulb in the box: can be fooled.......... but not into hanging slaves like his nobil, wise, poetic, ruthless, tricky, one-eyed tunnel visioned dad........

****just like Fred Flintstone :wink:
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