Why can't I have a solar powered car?

[Simple Minded]

Enki,

The real question is given the alternative proven technology, why would you (or anyone) want a solar powered car?

There is an old saying in manufacturing prototypes: "HIgh quality, low price, quick delivery..... pick any two!" Production of scale can change that saying a little, but only if the demand is beating down your door.

At this point the technology for solar powered cars is not viable, or cost efficient. Nor is there any meaningful demand.

[crashtech]

There are lots of real reasons why cars weigh what they do, most having to do with safety, and the fact that steel is far less expensive to build with than aluminum or composites. Also, the conversion to electric power tends to increase vehicle weight due to the very large mass of the battery.

Safety is a concern because the other vehicles all weigh that much. It's sort of an arms race. But if the vehicles all weighed less then they could weigh less. The batteries are going to weigh what they'll weigh but the frame and body can be lighter.

That's partially true. For your vision to become reality, ultralight vehicles will need to have their own dedicated roadways that are not shared with trucks and buses, for example. Also, don't forget hazards like trees and overpasses. I think people are becoming more risk averse instead of less, so a car that is less safe, even though more efficient, is a tough sell at this point in our development.

Much lighter vehicles could easily be manufactured, but something would have to be sacrificed. At present, that would mean either a very expensive vehicle, or a very unsafe one. In the latter case, decades of Federal safety regulations would need to be rolled back.

I don't think those little smart cars are particularly unsafe when you're talking about 35mph driving speeds within town.

I partially agree, though the problem of sharing the road with large vehicles still exists, and needs to be addressed.

The assertion that merely switching the power source from hydrocarbons to electricity should inherently result in a lighter vehicle betrays a poor understanding of the energy densities of currently available energy storage systems.

No. You're just going for a straw man. I am saying that things CAN get lighter as they get more energy efficient. Both things are advancing at the same time. There are lots of things in the car that can weigh less other than the battery, engine and drive train.

Yes, things like high strength steel intrusion beams, at least six airbags with supporting sensors and electronics, ABS, reinforced seat frames, sound deadening, amenities like air conditioning, nav and audio, power windows and carpeting. I agree that cars could be a LOT lighter than they are right now, but manufacturers are responding to the market by putting all these things in that people have come to expect and that makes cars heavy.

While I agree with you that advances in technology will (already have, in fact) enable vehicles to be much lighter, first we need to change people's attitudes toward their modes of transportation before the vehicles you envision will be accepted. Most often this occurs by necessity.

[Enki]

Simple Minded If I could have a viable solar powered car, then the savings on fuel costs alone would more than make up for any increase in price.

I don't need it to be perfectly efficient. Lets say I drive it 1 hour per day, but it sits in the sunlight for 10.

[Typhoon]

Excellent graph Typhoon!!!! Lots of info in a high density format.

Looks like a car that uses recycled plastics makes a lot of sense.

The problem is how one would transport, store, and burn solid polyethylene.

What the plot does show is that gasoline and diesel are near ideal liquid fuels.

Batteries, despite many decades of research, still have the same low energy density problem as they did in the beginning of the 20th century when internal combustion rationally won out over lead - acid batteries.

Solar powered cars are impractical due to the low energy density of sunlight per square metre.

World Solar Challenge

WZ3U-oWchME

[Simple Minded]

Simple Minded If I could have a viable solar powered car, then the savings on fuel costs alone would more than make up for any increase in price.

I don't need it to be perfectly efficient. Lets say I drive it 1 hour per day, but it sits in the sunlight for 10.

Since you don't know the cost of the final product, you are obviously ignoring costs my friend. Send me a check for $300k, give me 24 months to deliver, and I will build you a solar powered car. It has been done before, designs are out there. No one wants the product.... correction, no one wants to pay for the product.

1. On the bright side, downscaled convential technology:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Snyd ... 4cfe2fdaf1

2. One of the engineers at work owns two of these:
http://www.corbinsparrow.com/
He lives about 4 miles from work, max speed limit on route is 45 mph.
3. I owned one of these back in the early 1980s:
http://www.honda600source.com/
Interestingly enough, the Honda has the same size engine as the Snyder!!!!! Damn those engineers!!!

[Simple Minded]

The problem is how one would transport, store, and burn solid polyethylene.

What the plot does show is that gasoline and diesel are near ideal liquid fuels.

Agreed, I was being a wise ass. Hard to beat gas or diesel. If no one called "Bullshit" on me, my next post would be "You could toss your recyclable platic bottles in a garbage disposal, grind them up, and pour the powder into your gas tank. Mix in a little acetone or turpentine as a carrier liquid......"

Graph also shows why ethanol subsidies are stupid.

[Simple Minded]

Simple Minded If I could have a viable solar powered car, then the savings on fuel costs alone would more than make up for any increase in price.

I don't need it to be perfectly efficient. Lets say I drive it 1 hour per day, but it sits in the sunlight for 10.

If you still live in NYC, I would buy one of those industrial tricycles with the big basket, and a couple high powered quick release hand magnets, and just latch on to cars at stoplights.

You can probably get everything you need at McMaster-Carr.

[Simple Minded]

I think people are becoming more risk averse instead of less..........

I salute you! In 11 words you have accurately assessed the change in zeitgeist that is sweeping the Western hemisphere.

The previous 3 decades of "tain't never gonna rain again, why bother saving for a rainy day?" that so many individuals, organizations, municipalities, states, and nations previously adopted is changing back to a more realistic accessment of the risks of life.

"Safety?....... We don't need no stinkin safety!"

http://justphotos.posterous.com/a-smart ... -at-10-mph

I like this version of the Smartcar:

http://www.smartuki.com/

[Demon of Undoing]

All I need is 1.21 gigawatts.

[Simple Minded]

All I need is 1.21 gigawatts.

You already gots you a flux capacitor?

In your neck of the woods I imagine you installed it in a camo painted 4X4, or a Polaris Sportsman, and not a Delorean.....

[Simple Minded]

Screw the solar powered car.... back in the 1970s, they claimed we would all be commuting with jet packs and the Moeller flying cars by the year 2000.....

Other than the Swiss Dude, where are they?

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

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