Agriculture | Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Mr. Perfect
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Agriculture | Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Mr. Perfect »

You cannot over exaggerate the crap that is American food. You may as well take your kids to the landfill and forage in the slightly aged section with shovels, eating batteries and couch foam. If you don't come here very often there is no way to fill you in. It's apocalyptic.

95% of the grocery store is processed garbage. It's a harm to human life, literally. Furthermore, our produce section is also garbage. Dry, stale, unripe food made saleable due to tricks like nitrogen fixing and genetic modification, delivering a plastic prop devoid of any nutritional value, even in the organic section.

As a result America sets year after year records of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, impotence etc.

The conclusion is that it is impossible to eat healthy food in America. This is a true statement.

The problem is Americans don't know this. We have been frog boiled. Like the proverbial frog that can't tell the heat is rising soon enough (interestingly an analogy recently disproven IIRC but still works in this case) food consumption is largely a factor of culture, family of origin, habit, lifestyle etc, and is hard to change on many levels.
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Re: Revolutionary science; proper dirt

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I detected this myself several years ago. I was always slim for my my height, but 10 years ago or so I began to do this 30lb fluctuation, which fortunately for me is not a lot at my height/size. I can conceal it fairly simply. I'd restrict calories, workout more, whatever, burn it off but if I stopped paying attention it would pop back without much warning.

I was raised on a typical US diet, McDonalds, Hostess, Pizza and so forth. Many in America think if you change your attitude and eat a rare berry you can keep eating that with an offset. I started at the bottom. I knew nothing. I tried many diets but the roller coaster continued.

I discovered plant based dieting. It is a total foreign concept in America. On the street nobody knows what eating just plants is. But slowly I began to learn the culture, science, and lifestyle of plant based "clean eating".

My roller coaster stopped fluctuating. I cut it down by 15 lbs.
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Re: Revolutionary science; proper dirt

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But I had a problem. I couldn't cut the last 15 lbs and now began to detest the food, craving processed garbage again. It didn't make sense. You are supposed to be able to eat plants, love it, and have a positive snowball effect. Positive benefits of eating plants makes you want more plants, rinse and repeat.

But it wasn't working.

Several years ago I began gardening, mostly in response to obama's election. The end of modern economy was evident with that election, so I decided to learn how to grow my own food. I was so ambitious. I have the property for self sufficiency I figured, easily, I got the tractor and all the tools and set out. I figured 3-4 years, I could learn how to support the family off the land.

It was fun, there is quite a learning curve, and things got better. After 3-4 years I was pleased with how much food I could grow and store. But I wasn't there yet.

Then I hit a brick wall. Diminishing returns. The more I worked the less I got for it. My first teacher was an organic gardener so I was doing manures, composts, organic box fertilizers, etc. No pesticides, herbicides, or chemical fertilizers. I couldn't defend why I was doing that, it was instinct as much as anything.

But it wasn't working anymore. I couldn't get more or better food without lots and lots and lots and lots of extra work.
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Re: Revolutionary science; proper dirt

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Long story short, I was introduced to woodchip mulch gardening. It is the answer.

http://www.backtoedenfilm.com/

Woodchip mulch gardening. Watch the free streaming movie, it will change your life and the life of your descendants till the Lord comes.

Woodchip mulch gardening:

No tilling: the ground cover attracts mycelium, worms and other microrganisms that softens the dirt several feet down.

No watering: woodchips trap the water in the ground. Watering is rare.

No weeding: woodchips block most seeds from germinating in the soil. Weeding is cut down by 95%, at least.

No fertilization: the microorganisms attracted by the woodchips break the mulch down at near miraculous effectiveness, providing the full range of nutrients to the plants. You can add compost at your pleasure.

No pests: this takes some splaining, but the idea is that a healthy plant repels insects and disease.

Healthiest nutrient rich plants: properly hydrated fruits and veggies ripened on the vine are 10 times more flavorful and nutritious than the most expensive organic foods.

Extraordinary yield: Paul doesn't use 80% of what he grows and lives all year out of his garden. Most of his food goes to walking tours, neighbors and his chickens.
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Re: Revolutionary science; proper dirt

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So I found out about this in the spring and began implementing it. The more I learned the better it sounded. I have been studying permaculture for years but all I could see was enormous work with small results. Just sort of a liberal feel good kumbaya system.

But with this system there is less and less to do. All you do is plant, gather woodchips, and eat. No watering, no weeding, no tilling, no fertilizer, no poison.

I recently made the trek to Sequim, WA and took one of the tours. It was like the Garden of Eden. The trees are weighed down with fruit, the vegetables are waist high and taste like fruit, there wasn't a weed anywhere, or a hose, the food was 10 times more delicious than anything I had had in my life, and 30 people wandered his grounds for 4 hours and you couldn't tell anyone had been there.

It was magic.

If you are concerned at all about food quality, you have to watch this film.

The only way to get the highest quality foods is through woodchip mulch gardening. After you have eaten a fully ripe apple straight off a properly hydrated tree you'll never go to a produce store again.
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Re: Revolutionary science; proper dirt

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Here is a youtube channel with a lot of content featuring this method and the founder.

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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Excellent points, but the NW is a unique ecosystem.

Here in the South the struggle is to keep the pH up. Weeds and pests abound, and the summer is so hot everything dies between June and August. Hydroponics make more sense as we have plenty of sand and very little humus.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Here is a dude doing it in Tempe, AZ. No watering or fertilizer necessary.

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With this method unless you are above the Arctic Circle you don't have to water, pH balance, weed, fertilize, till, etc. The woodchips create their own humus and pH balance, keep out weeds and hold the moisture in the ground. Paul lives in a rain shadow and doesn't see rain for 4 months in the summer, yet an inch below the chips you can stick a straw in the ground and drink water out of it.

I live in a very different zone than Paul and I can't believe how well it works. As soon as I put the chips down I didn't have to weed or water anymore. The composting process of the chips takes a little time but you can supplement with Fish emulsion and bone meal the first year. Most people stop adding after that. You can certainly layer more compost on but it's not necessary. It works in clay soils, rocky soils, sand soil, you name it.
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There are dozens of youtube channels of people doing it all over the world, it works everywhere. I'm not arguing I'm selling :) . It is THE ANSWER in terms of growing and eating healthy food.

I would recommend watching the original movie first, then some of his youtubes, then other people. There are lots of people doing it on youtube now but Paul still does it the best. He's been doing it for over 30 years. It's very simple and requires almost no work.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Here is a primer/FAQ answer sheet to get you going.

1. There are 2 ways to start. This method is about layering, not tilling. It's about layers. So the first layer is some kind of paper product that will deteriorate rapidly, that's purpose is to kill the underlying grass. Lay down some paper or cardboard. Home Depot sells big rolls of pulp paper for painters, that works really well, is cheap.

Next, you can go either woodchips or a compost. Compost is recommended, because your plants will do better the first year. 3-6 inches. But the top layer will be woodchips, 3-6 inches.

Start it now, in the fall, and by spring when you furrow the chips back to plant the ground will be soft and accepting of seed.

You are planting in the soil, not the chips, the chips are a cover.

2. No raised beds, no tilling, no pots, no plastic, no greenhouses. Just layered organic material. A paper weed barrier, a first year compost, and woodchips on top. Also, you can keep the rocks in the ground. Rocks are minerals and a long term nutrient to your plants. The woodchips makes the soil soft enough even with a lot of rocks.

3. When I say no pests I mean insects, and disease. Healthy plants repel insects and disease. But, critters remain a problem. Birds, rabbits, raccoons, deer, elk, etc, they just keep coming. That requires different strategies.

4. Anywhere you go different plants do differently in different seasons. However, almost anywhere, you can grow crops year round. The trick is simply meeting experienced gardeners in your area to see what works. I would love to live in the south, I would live on melons. The greatest food I have ever eaten was a ripe cantaloupe straight off the vine. I dream of it.

5. In the years going forward add woodchips as needed. If the ground is looking bare or weeds start popping through, add an inch of wood chips. I think recommended is like 1 inch a year.

No watering
No weeding
No tilling
No fertilizer
No disease or insects
Unlimited healthy food year round
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Simple Minded »

Good stuff Mr. P. Thanks for posting.

I grew up in the farm country just south of Lake Ontario, great soil. lots of rain. As kids we were always raiding the fields and orchards for snacks. Peaches, apples, corn, cauliflower, cabbage, asparagus, blueberries, raspberries, peas, etc. Produce that was picked less than 10 minutes ago has a very different taste than what one finds in stores or restaurants.

Just looking at the worms gives one an indication of soil conditions. Worms so big that one night crawler could bait 6-12 hooks were common.

One neighbor would was still gardening in his late nineties used tons of mulch and grew the best strawberries I have ever seen or tasted. A local neighbor spends 10-12 hours a day in her garden in her late 80's, even when the temperature is in the high 90's. Tough people.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Simple Minded wrote: Produce that was picked less than 10 minutes ago has a very different taste than what one finds in stores or restaurants.
Some say that vegetables lose up to 80% of their nutritional value after 10 minutes.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Simple Minded wrote: Produce that was picked less than 10 minutes ago has a very different taste than what one finds in stores or restaurants.
Some say that vegetables lose up to 80% of their nutritional value after 10 minutes.
The Federal Reserve must be involved somehow.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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:)

More than we know.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Simple Minded »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Simple Minded wrote: Produce that was picked less than 10 minutes ago has a very different taste than what one finds in stores or restaurants.
Some say that vegetables lose up to 80% of their nutritional value after 10 minutes.
Never heard that one, but some advocates of juicing claim that since the human body does not seem well designed to process the nutrients found in fruits and vegetables that juicing allows that absorption of 100 times more nutrients than normal chewing.

My wife & I juiced for a few years. We never noticed any difference in how we felt.

Juicing celery makes an excellent laxative though...... ;)
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Typhoon »

Juicing is a load of bollocks.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Simple Minded wrote: Never heard that one, but some advocates of juicing claim that since the human body does not seem well designed to process the nutrients found in fruits and vegetables that juicing allows that absorption of 100 times more nutrients than normal chewing.
I don't know anything about juicing but that seems like an odd claim. If we aren't designed to absorb nutrients from fruits and vegetables what are we supposed to absorb.

Everything I learn is that the problem is at the source. that is the fruit or vegetable itself.
Juicing celery makes an excellent laxative though...... ;)
That's worth something.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:Juicing is a load of bollocks.
I suspect for some, with very poor digestive systems, the mechanical breakdown of the fruit/vegetable may allow their body to absorb more nutrients. We never found much benefit. It was a fun experiment though.

Always fascinating when someone proposes than a simple change makes a profound improvement in their health. Ex: "Drinking 8 glasses of water a day now and I feel great!" How dehydrated were you? What were you drinking before? Coffee? Tea? Soda?

If OTNOTers juiced celery regularly, would it affect the quality of our posts? :?
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by Mr. Perfect »

My current health scheme:

Lots of sleep, 8-10 hours
About a gallon of water per day, more when I work out
Only fresh fruits and vegetables, root plants, etc
Daily exercise

I'm feeling great for my age and it simplifies everything. I don't worry about counting calories or magic supplements.

If you go here

www.cronometer.com

you can input your daily food and chart your nutrient values. I usually blow through my RDAs before dinner. No need for magic pills or tv supplements. I'm eating a lot but not putting on weight. I wish I could have been doing this since I was a kid, I would have done something with life ;) .
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noddy
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

Post by noddy »

ive been on this woodchip and dirt diet since the original posting and all ive got is rectal bleeding.

think ill go back to my red meat and strong ale diet and die like a king, crippled with gout.

somewhat moar seriously, i live on the edge of the suburbs next to one of australias big food growing regions so fresh and hi quality food at a reasonable price is one of the things i dont need to worry about.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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It's not as much of a problem outside the US.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Ok, I am going to share a tip that may save your lives at some time. Gardening is hard. There is a lot to learn and it takes years of experience. Not that you shouldn't start you have to start somewhere.

But with traditional gardening it can take years to build up your plot. Traditionally, you have to bring in enormous amounts of organic materials/composts or go the chemical route, and chemical fertilizers are like steroids, short term gains at long term expense and are destructive to the soil.

So what do you do? There is a shortcut. Rarely in life is there a shortcut. But there is in this case.

Compost tea.

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Compost teas is analogous to say a fruit concentrate. Say 4 trucks of manure logged down into say a bucket of manure juice. It's just nutrient at enormous concentration. No side effects or trade offs or long term costs.

Here is the best consumer turn key kit I am aware of. It takes some doing but is doable.

http://www.bountea.com/

Again, there is no downside. If you have a new plot, or want to start, and want to shortcut the time it takes to develop your plot then this absolutely works. As the economy begins to get destroyed you may be forced to start from scratch and this may save your life. You can get great results in your first years at no cost. I would say for most people it takes at least 3-4 years before your plot produces and this can tide you over. Eventually you won't need it, but a lot of enthusiasts really get into it.

Good luck guys.
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Re: The attempted coup d'état against Trump continues

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This goes far deeper than you know.

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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Ermm, these 2 videos applied to the other thread.
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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Master gardening list 2017; Asparagus, cilantro, spinach, Red Russian kale, broccoli, lettuce, carrots, beets, turnips, squash, zucchini, corn, potatoes, onions, leeks, strawberries, raspberries, several apple trees, 2 plums
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Re: Revolutionary science: proper dirt

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I haven't eaten anything storebought since May. I think I am entering paradise.
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