Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Typhoon
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Typhoon »

Typhoon wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Lovely.

However, climate scientists are as yet unable to distinguish between the processed global temperature data and a randomly generated time series.

More later.
Actually, Scott Adams does an excellent job.

How to Convince Skeptics that Climate Change is a Problem

A classic along the lines of "We come not to bury Caesar, but to praise him."
Judith Curry, Ph.D. | CLIMATE MODELS for the layman [pdf]
Key summary points

• GCMs [Geneal Circulation Models i.e., climate models] have not been subject to the rigorous verification and validation that is
the norm for engineering and regulatory science.

• There are valid concerns about a fundamental lack of predictability in the complex
nonlinear climate system.

• There are numerous arguments supporting the conclusion that climate models
are not fit for the purpose of identifying with high confidence the proportion
of the 20th century warming that was human-caused as opposed to natural.

• There is growing evidence that climate models predict too much warming from
increased atmospheric carbon dioxide.

• The climate model simulation results for the 21st century reported by the Intergovernmental
Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) do not include key elements
of climate variability, and hence are not useful as projections for how the 21st
century climate will actually evolve.
tl;dr:
With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk.

~ John von Neumann
Climate models contain thousands of empirical parameters from fitting to observational data.
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

From The Economist twitter:
Just 15 of the biggest ships emit more oxides of nitrogen and sulphur than all of the world's cars put together
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-a ... /te/bl/ed/
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
Simple Minded

Global Warming will save the world!!!!!

Post by Simple Minded »

This is actually good news: http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/03/15/ ... e-of-cats/

If all mammals follow the lead of horses, shrinking from their current size, approx. 1100 lbs to the size of cats, approx. 10 lbs., then, using science that has been settled for years, humans will shrink to about 2 lbs.

Result, utopia! A family of four could live in a discarded refrigerator, by just eating a couple of tomatoes per week. Less consumption needed, more resources available.

Time for the self-loathing, humanity hating, greenies to switch sides and embrace AGW. To not do so would be to propagate the biggest threat to world we have ever seen.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Global Warming will save the world!!!!!

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Simple Minded wrote:This is actually good news: http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/03/15/ ... e-of-cats/

If all mammals follow the lead of horses, shrinking from their current size, approx. 1100 lbs to the size of cats, approx. 10 lbs., then, using science that has been settled for years, humans will shrink to about 2 lbs.

Result, utopia! A family of four could live in a discarded refrigerator, by just eating a couple of tomatoes per week. Less consumption needed, more resources available.
This is why the manufacturers are making internet connected appliances. Mary Norton's "The Borrowers" is 1984 for 2184.
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Ammianus
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Ammianus »

Someone will inevitably state two simultaneous truths about this phenomenon: 1. There is nothing to worry about because those coral reefs are never going anywhere because they have always recovered in the past from warm temperatures and 2. In any case warming sea temperatures can't possibly be the cause of this die off:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/scie ... ieoff.html
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Typhoon
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Typhoon »

Ammianus wrote:Someone will inevitably state two simultaneous truths about this phenomenon: 1. There is nothing to worry about because those coral reefs are never going anywhere because they have always recovered in the past from warm temperatures and 2. In any case warming sea temperatures can't possibly be the cause of this die off:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/scie ... ieoff.html
Corals in the Indo-Pacific region evolved about 30 millions years ago

Image

I doubt that they are going away any time soon.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Simple Minded

Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Simple Minded »

Ammianus wrote:Someone will inevitably state two simultaneous truths about this phenomenon: 1. There is nothing to worry about because those coral reefs are never going anywhere because they have always recovered in the past from warm temperatures and 2. In any case warming sea temperatures can't possibly be the cause of this die off:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/scie ... ieoff.html
I think those are very safe predictions indeed.

Personally, I need to see the data that "proves" the "die off" is not due to acid rain, DDT, the hole in the O-Zone Layer, the Coming Ice Age, or human swimmers peeing in the Pacific Ocean. Hell, no one I have ever met feels bad about peeing in the ocean.

noddy, you're the closest OTNOTer to the reefs. Have you ever peed in the ocean?

Why are we ignoring the data that Global Warming is good in other areas? Why are we not touting global warming as a human success story on a massive scale? Are we being regionists, those of us in temperate regions don't want those in colder regions to enjoy the same lifestyle?

Smaller mammals, including humans will exhale less CO2, fart less methane, consume less vegetation, and use less water. Higher CO2 levels are positive for green plant life. Additionally, as human shrink, while plant life remains the same, less acreage will need to be planted for food, houses will require 1/100 of the trees normally used for construction, cars will become smaller, an existing two lane road will eventually become a multi lane highway, and human energy needs will plummet.

Where is the problem?
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by noddy »

the reef was already dissapearing due to land clearing for housing and farming causing high nitrogen runoff that upset the balance, triggering fatal starfish blooms and other destructive processes.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-22/g ... ys/8140244

until the luvvies decide if they want high population, high compassion immigration or they want whats remaining of our wildlife all other considerations are mental masturbation without purpose.

1 degree hotter means nothing against having all your species shot/fished/poisoned out, land cleared and then turned into wheat fields or concrete.

trying to squeeze all arguments into a global warming argument and claim land clearing is high carbon is so brain retarded and anti science you might aswell be talking to radical christians about truthy bibles.

this argument isnt about global warming believers vs nasty right wing capitalists, its about snowflakes not wanting to get their own priorities in line, so this is why it goes nowhere.
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Typhoon
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Typhoon »

noddy wrote:the reef was already disappearing due to land clearing for housing and farming causing high nitrogen runoff that upset the balance, triggering fatal starfish blooms and other destructive processes.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-22/g ... ys/8140244
Bingo.

PNAS | The 27–year decline of coral cover on the Great Barrier Reef and its causes
noddy wrote:until the luvvies decide if they want high population, high compassion immigration or they want whats remaining of our wildlife all other considerations are mental masturbation without purpose.

1 degree hotter means nothing against having all your species shot/fished/poisoned out, land cleared and then turned into wheat fields or concrete.
Exactly.

1C over more than a century.
noddy wrote:trying to squeeze all arguments into a global warming argument and claim land clearing is high carbon is so brain retarded and anti science you might as well be talking to radical christians about truthy bibles.

this argument isnt about global warming believers vs nasty right wing capitalists, its about snowflakes not wanting to get their own priorities in line, so this is why it goes nowhere.
Quite.
_____

I've often read the promo for some spot, then have gone there and found myself less than overwhelmed.

The Great Barrier Reef was the rare exception. No write up could do it justice when seen from the air and underwater.

Would be an absolute shame for it to continue decline due to human local action on land.
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by noddy »

yes, the coral reefs are/were amazing.

as are/were the forests and the magnificant cockatoos that are currently looking like being in their last generation across much of australia due to land clearing.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=black+cockato ... &ia=images

i know i must repeat the dogma that humans are more important than wildlife but i cant honestly say i want to live in a world of nothing but farms, concrete and squabbling humans, it would be a tragedy.

global warming is such a small part of the issues of feeding and housing 7 billion special creatures.
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Simple Minded

Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy,

Thanks for the informed opinion. AGW is a burdensome religion. It appeals well to the modern, secular, snowflake, who finds original sin to be just a bit too corny.

"I think Christians are morons, but I do know that all the stuff I desire is ruining the planet, and I feel bad about it, but not so bad as to change my habits. I just want someone else to tell me what to do and how to think. And if I repeat the right words, people will know I'm enlightened and a good person. Right?"

Modern tech and indoor climate control has made many yutes unaware of the variability, and exquisite harshness of nature. Giving them a thermometer that reads in tenths of a degree and asking them to measure the temperature of 5 acres of land would be an eye opening experience for most of them.

You are tech savvy and social media wise. You should create an online counselling service for AGW sinners. Big $!
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Parodite
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Parodite »

Looks like we need something like a MMGW skeptics taskforce to fight the new religion, an A-Team of New Climate Change Atheists also with "Four Horsemen".

Image

Which four MMGW-skeptic climatologists should be in it? I would suggest:

1. Dr. Judith Curry
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
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Typhoon
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

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2. Roy Spencer
3. William Happer
4. Richard Lindzen
5. Freeman Dyson

z_OjGxrlloE
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Typhoon
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

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May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Typhoon
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Typhoon »

US White House | Presidential Executive Order on Promoting Energy Independence and Economic Growth

I presume that the usual suspects such as Greenfleece, the Surreal Club, 350 [Bill "Weepy" McKibben], and the Environmental Offense Fund will attempt to tie up every aspect of this POTUS EO in the courts.

Anyways, the wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of grant applications can be heard right round the planet.
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Parodite
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Parodite »

Typhoon wrote:US White House | Presidential Executive Order on Promoting Energy Independence and Economic Growth

I presume that the usual suspects such as Greenfleece, the Surreal Club, 350 [Bill "Weepy" McKibben], and the Environmental Offense Fund will attempt to tie up every aspect of this POTUS EO in the courts.

Anyways, the wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of grant applications can be heard right round the planet.
Michael Moore is gnashing all his teeth.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Simple Minded

Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:
Typhoon wrote:US White House | Presidential Executive Order on Promoting Energy Independence and Economic Growth

I presume that the usual suspects such as Greenfleece, the Surreal Club, 350 [Bill "Weepy" McKibben], and the Environmental Offense Fund will attempt to tie up every aspect of this POTUS EO in the courts.

Anyways, the wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of grant applications can be heard right round the planet.
Michael Moore is gnashing all his teeth.
Parodite, Thanks for posting. Love this response:

Charles C. W. Cooke‏Verified account @charlescwcooke Mar 28
More
Replying to @MMFlint
How do the historians survive?
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Parodite
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Parodite »

Simple Minded wrote:Parodite, Thanks for posting. Love this response:

Charles C. W. Cooke‏Verified account @charlescwcooke Mar 28
More
Replying to @MMFlint
How do the historians survive?
Hehe indeed! The only witness of creation and destruction... the divine.
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Doc
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

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http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/m ... t-stephens

The death of civil discourse: Twitterverse eviscerates Bret Stephens over climate column
By Joe Concha, opinion contributor - 04/30/17 03:00 PM EDT
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/m ... t-stephens

The death of civil discourse: Twitterverse eviscerates Bret Stephens over climate column
By Joe Concha, opinion contributor - 04/30/17 03:00 PM EDT
Excellent article Doc. thanks for posting. The NYT article was very reasoned. Except if you're a AGW religious fanatic. Responses are what one would expect.

"Let me put it another way. Claiming total certainty about the science traduces the spirit of science and creates openings for doubt whenever a climate claim proves wrong. Demanding abrupt and expensive changes in public policy raises fair questions about ideological intentions. Censoriously asserting one’s moral superiority and treating skeptics as imbeciles and deplorables wins few converts."

I still want one of these hard core AGW disciples to prove they can measure the temperature of even a small plot, say 500 acres, to a tenth of a degree.
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

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"Climate Change March"

Powered by . . .

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Typhoon
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

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Doc wrote:http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/m ... t-stephens

The death of civil discourse: Twitterverse eviscerates Bret Stephens over climate column
By Joe Concha, opinion contributor - 04/30/17 03:00 PM EDT
The name "Stefan Rahmstorf" in the tweet announcing the cancellation of his NY TImes subscription sounded vaguely familiar,

To paraphrase Upton Sinclair

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his grant depends on his not understanding it.”
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Doc »

Typhoon wrote:
Doc wrote:http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/m ... t-stephens

The death of civil discourse: Twitterverse eviscerates Bret Stephens over climate column
By Joe Concha, opinion contributor - 04/30/17 03:00 PM EDT
The name "Stefan Rahmstorf" in the tweet announcing the cancellation of his NY TImes subscription sounded vaguely familiar,

To paraphrase Upton Sinclair

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his grant depends on his not understanding it.”
Not just his grant but his writing career as well
He is a frequent contributor of articles on climate and climate change in the popular press
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Doc »

Simple Minded wrote:
Doc wrote:http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/m ... t-stephens

The death of civil discourse: Twitterverse eviscerates Bret Stephens over climate column
By Joe Concha, opinion contributor - 04/30/17 03:00 PM EDT
Excellent article Doc. thanks for posting. The NYT article was very reasoned. Except if you're a AGW religious fanatic. Responses are what one would expect.

"Let me put it another way. Claiming total certainty about the science traduces the spirit of science and creates openings for doubt whenever a climate claim proves wrong. Demanding abrupt and expensive changes in public policy raises fair questions about ideological intentions. Censoriously asserting one’s moral superiority and treating skeptics as imbeciles and deplorables wins few converts."

I still want one of these hard core AGW disciples to prove they can measure the temperature of even a small plot, say 500 acres, to a tenth of a degree.
I very much agree with the NYT author However I believe that real debate is possible WRT GW until the political climate changes. OK Go on, deny there is anthropogenic political climate change(APCC). I dare you

APCC is killing the planet and our futures. Just look at all the change that has occurred since the 1990's :P
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Parodite
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Re: Climate and the Anthropogenic Global Warming Controversy

Post by Parodite »

ZDK1aCqqZkQ
In a very special #LwC, for one full hour, we sat down with Dr. Patrick Moore, PHD in Ecology and founder of Greenpeace, and dissected the scam that is modern "climate change".
I like the term Moore used: "natural climate change deniers" :lol:
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