Astronomy and Space

Advances in the investigation of the physical universe we live in.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


NYT : India Sends Orbiter to Mars, On a Shoestring

NEW DELHI — An Indian spacecraft affectionately nicknamed MOM reached Mars orbit on Wednesday, beating India’s Asian rivals to the Red Planet and outdoing the Americans, the Soviets and the Europeans in doing so on a maiden voyage and a shoestring budget.

An ebullient Prime Minister Narendra Modi was on hand at the Indian Space Research Organization’s command center in Bangalore for the early-morning event and hailed it “as a shining symbol of what we are capable of as a nation.”

“The odds were stacked against us,” Mr. Modi, wearing a red Nehru vest, said in a televised news conference. “When you are trying to do something that has not been attempted before, it is a leap into the unknown. And space is indeed the biggest unknown out there.”

Children across India were asked to come to school by 6:45 a.m. Wednesday, well before the usual starting time, to watch the historic event on state television.

The Mars Orbiter Mission, or MOM, was intended mostly to prove that India could succeed in such a highly technical endeavor — and to beat China. As Mr. Modi and others have noted, India’s trip to Mars, at a price of $74 million, cost less than the Hollywood movie “Gravity.” NASA’s almost simultaneous — and far more complex — mission to Mars cost $671 million.

:lol: :lol:


$ 74 million cost India to go to Mars

Well, folks , that a sign of things coming .. America must become competitive with India .. no reason whatsoever an American
NASA engineer making $ 150K a yr when same engineer making $ 15K a yr in India .. 1:10 wage disparity correlates with $74:$671 cost of mars mission for India/USA

Sobering situation, Doc, Monster

Let's see what our in-house scientist says, CS you have the mike :lol:


.
Why should this be a sobering situation for the US AZ ?

.

Interesting, seems no bells ringing with you, Doc, when India does with $ 74 million what cost you $ 671 million to do same

Doc wrote:
I think it is great.

yes, it is

Doc wrote:
Now of course the Chinese might be upset by all of this. :lol:

.
Why should Chinese be upset about this ? ?

China and India now good friends .. and .. China as economical competitive as India .. wages for top Chinese Engineer competitive with Indian

Issue is wages for American engineers, they waaaaaaay overpaid compared to India (or Chinese)

Doc wrote:.

Getting to Mars is really hard

.

True .. proof Indian engineers as good as your's .. in fact , they probably better as they had to do it on a shoe string budget what makes things much more challenging


More details



ziqYwHhywMs

.
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Doc
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


NYT : India Sends Orbiter to Mars, On a Shoestring

NEW DELHI — An Indian spacecraft affectionately nicknamed MOM reached Mars orbit on Wednesday, beating India’s Asian rivals to the Red Planet and outdoing the Americans, the Soviets and the Europeans in doing so on a maiden voyage and a shoestring budget.

An ebullient Prime Minister Narendra Modi was on hand at the Indian Space Research Organization’s command center in Bangalore for the early-morning event and hailed it “as a shining symbol of what we are capable of as a nation.”

“The odds were stacked against us,” Mr. Modi, wearing a red Nehru vest, said in a televised news conference. “When you are trying to do something that has not been attempted before, it is a leap into the unknown. And space is indeed the biggest unknown out there.”

Children across India were asked to come to school by 6:45 a.m. Wednesday, well before the usual starting time, to watch the historic event on state television.

The Mars Orbiter Mission, or MOM, was intended mostly to prove that India could succeed in such a highly technical endeavor — and to beat China. As Mr. Modi and others have noted, India’s trip to Mars, at a price of $74 million, cost less than the Hollywood movie “Gravity.” NASA’s almost simultaneous — and far more complex — mission to Mars cost $671 million.

:lol: :lol:


$ 74 million cost India to go to Mars

Well, folks , that a sign of things coming .. America must become competitive with India .. no reason whatsoever an American
NASA engineer making $ 150K a yr when same engineer making $ 15K a yr in India .. 1:10 wage disparity correlates with $74:$671 cost of mars mission for India/USA

Sobering situation, Doc, Monster

Let's see what our in-house scientist says, CS you have the mike :lol:


.
Why should this be a sobering situation for the US AZ ?

.

Interesting, seems no bells ringing with you, Doc, when India does with $ 74 million what cost you $ 671 million to do same

Doc wrote:
I think it is great.

yes, it is

Doc wrote:
Now of course the Chinese might be upset by all of this. :lol:

.
Why should Chinese be upset about this ? ?

China and India now good friends .. and .. China as economical competitive as India .. wages for top Chinese Engineer competitive with Indian

Issue is wages for American engineers, they waaaaaaay overpaid compared to India (or Chinese)

Doc wrote:.

Getting to Mars is really hard

.

True .. proof Indian engineers as good as your's .. in fact , they probably better as they had to do it on a shoe string budget what makes things much more challenging


More details



ziqYwHhywMs

.
I have no problem with Indian engineers being good. The question is why does Az care so much about this? Seems like ISIS fighters much better than Iranian trained Shiite fighters Seems like this should concern AZlovesIRan. Maybe soon to be ISIRan
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Typhoon
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Typhoon »

Everyone, let's keep the petty politics out of the science + technology section.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Props to India for their achievement, but putting a single satellite in a simple orbit is not comparable to landing an automated mobile research station on the surface of another planet. The lower cost is understandable.

India has proven they can build interplanetary ballistic boosters using what is basically 60's technology. That is a rudimentary proof of capacity. Their next technological objective is to build a maneuverable transtage which can accurately place microsats in different geosynchronous orbits.

That is non-ballistic and much trickier, and it requires a telemetry system with worldwide coverage (no dark spots). Until then, they will be only another competing supplier and not an independent space entity.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Re: Astronomy and Space

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A reminder that a rocket launch is still a non-trivial exercise in engineering:

NCWunnJXdm0
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Re: Astronomy and Space

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Antares explodes 14 seconds into launch Appears to take out launch pad.

hn-1X0jpWIU
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Doc »

Typhoon wrote:A reminder that a rocket launch is still a non-trivial exercise in engineering:

NCWunnJXdm0
You beat me in posting this by a few seconds :D

I would also note that Space X, the non military contractor, just completed a mission to the international space station. Look like Orbital Sciences lost their launch facility in the explosion. Looked like the engine blew up then it crashed into the launch pad
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote:
Typhoon wrote:A reminder that a rocket launch is still a non-trivial exercise in engineering:

NCWunnJXdm0
You beat me in posting this by a few seconds :D

I would also note that Space X, the non military contractor, just completed a mission to the international space station. Look like Orbital Sciences lost their launch facility in the explosion. Looked like the engine blew up then it crashed into the launch pad

This happening more and more since Russians sanctioned America, not delivery rocket boosters

.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:
Typhoon wrote:A reminder that a rocket launch is still a non-trivial exercise in engineering:

NCWunnJXdm0
You beat me in posting this by a few seconds :D

I would also note that Space X, the non military contractor, just completed a mission to the international space station. Look like Orbital Sciences lost their launch facility in the explosion. Looked like the engine blew up then it crashed into the launch pad

This happening more and more since Russians sanctioned America, not delivery rocket boosters

.
According to a pre-sanctions statement by Elon Musk:
One of our competitors, Orbital Sciences, has a contract to resupply the International Space Station, and their rocket honestly sounds like the punch line to a joke. It uses Russian rocket engines that were made in the ’60s. I don’t mean their design is from the ’60s—I mean they start with engines that were literally made in the ’60s and, like, packed away in Siberia somewhere.
.
http://www.wired.com/2012/10/ff-elon-musk-qa/all/
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:
Typhoon wrote:A reminder that a rocket launch is still a non-trivial exercise in engineering:

NCWunnJXdm0
You beat me in posting this by a few seconds :D

I would also note that Space X, the non military contractor, just completed a mission to the international space station. Look like Orbital Sciences lost their launch facility in the explosion. Looked like the engine blew up then it crashed into the launch pad

This happening more and more since Russians sanctioned America, not delivery rocket boosters

.
According to a pre-sanctions statement by Elon Musk:
One of our competitors, Orbital Sciences, has a contract to resupply the International Space Station, and their rocket honestly sounds like the punch line to a joke. It uses Russian rocket engines that were made in the ’60s. I don’t mean their design is from the ’60s—I mean they start with engines that were literally made in the ’60s and, like, packed away in Siberia somewhere.
.
http://www.wired.com/2012/10/ff-elon-musk-qa/all/

Russian Engines made 1960 sold to America ? ? ? .. probably "rusted" in Siberian warehouse ? ? :lol: :lol:

That explains why so many launches going belly up

Why not buying the latest technology boosters from Russia ? ? I mean "pre" sanction

Well, folks, Werner Von Brown designed those boosters taking those to moon and Von Brown gone

Be nice to Russians

.
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Typhoon »

Let's keep the petty earthly politics out of the science sections including this thread.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:
Typhoon wrote:A reminder that a rocket launch is still a non-trivial exercise in engineering:

NCWunnJXdm0
You beat me in posting this by a few seconds :D

I would also note that Space X, the non military contractor, just completed a mission to the international space station. Look like Orbital Sciences lost their launch facility in the explosion. Looked like the engine blew up then it crashed into the launch pad

This happening more and more since Russians sanctioned America, not delivery rocket boosters

.
According to a pre-sanctions statement by Elon Musk:
One of our competitors, Orbital Sciences, has a contract to resupply the International Space Station, and their rocket honestly sounds like the punch line to a joke. It uses Russian rocket engines that were made in the ’60s. I don’t mean their design is from the ’60s—I mean they start with engines that were literally made in the ’60s and, like, packed away in Siberia somewhere.
.
http://www.wired.com/2012/10/ff-elon-musk-qa/all/

Russian Engines made 1960 sold to America ? ? ? .. probably "rusted" in Siberian warehouse ? ? :lol: :lol:

That explains why so many launches going belly up

Why not buying the latest technology boosters from Russia ? ? I mean "pre" sanction

Well, folks, Werner Von Brown designed those boosters taking those to moon and Von Brown gone

Be nice to Russians

.
Elon Musk, the chief executive of Orbital’s competitor SpaceX, has long warned against using such decades-old technology. Calling it one of the “pretty silly things going on in the market,” he told Wired last year some aerospace firms rely on parts “developed in the 1960s” rather than “better technology.” He called out Orbital Sciences in particular. It “has a contract to resupply the International Space Station, and their rocket honestly sounds like the punch line to a joke,” he said. “It uses Russian rocket engines that were made in the ’60s. I don’t mean their design is from the ’60s — I mean they start with engines that were literally made in the ’60s and, like, packed away in Siberia somewhere.”
Space X has the most advanced rocket engines in the world. Nice to have good old American free enterprise. ;)
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


Kuznetsov company says engines used in Antares rocket were ‘functioning normally’ and suggests problem may lie with US modification of them

Kuznetsov company in the Russian city of Samara suggested the blame lay not with its NK-33 engines, which formed the basis for the AJ-26 engines, but rather with their later modification in the United States, the Russian news agency Itar-Tass reported.

“Due to certain specifics, it’s not possible to talk about the construction details of the rocket itself and the interaction of its systems during launch, since this is the field of American specialists,” Kuznetsov’s press service said. “However, it’s important to note that during yesterday’s launch, the AJ-26 first-stage engines, which are a modification of the NK-33, were functioning normally.”

..

Kuznetsov argued that its NK-33 engines had undergone significant modernisation in the United States, including the addition of new components to direct the rocket’s thrust vector. “The development and certification of all new systems were done by the American side without Kuznetsov specialists. In essence, the AJ-26 engine is undergoing flight tests,” it said.

The NK-33 engines were first developed for the Soviet Union’s N-1 moon rocket, but many of them wound up in storage when that programme was cancelled after several launch failures. The US company Aerojet Rocketdyne reportedly bought about 40 of the Soviet engines in the 1990s and began modifying them for use in US rockets. The resulting AJ-26 engine has suffered some failures during tests: one caught fire in 2011, and another being tested in May before use in an Antares flight burned up.

Orbital Sciences revealed plans on Wednesday to end its use of the ageing Russian rockets for future launches, a transition that could take up to a year to complete and delay its next scheduled launch in April.

“The AJ-26 rocket engines used in [the Antares first stage main propulsion system] have presented us with some serious technical and supply challenges in the past,” said the chairman, David Thompson, in a hastily convened conference call with investors.

“So Orbital has been reviewing alternatives since the middle of last year and recently selected a different main propulsion system for future use by Antares. It is possible we may decide to accelerate this change if the AJ-26 turns out to be implicated in the failure.”

Russians saying their NK-33 (1960's) boosters fine

.
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

o1KtF6ZsN1E
n9ythm-Rjy4
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

http://www.wikisky.org

Googlemaps for outer space.
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Doc »

Delta Dawn what's that flower you have on?
It ain't no faded rose from days gone by...
UEuOpxOrA_0
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Endovelico »

Doc wrote:Delta Dawn what's that flower you have on?
It ain't no faded rose from days gone by...
UEuOpxOrA_0
Cool! It was about time! And now on to Mars!...
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The European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT)

Post by Endovelico »

Green Light for E-ELT Construction
4 December 2014

At a recent meeting ESO’s main governing body, the Council, gave the green light [1] for the construction of the European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT) in two phases. Spending of around one billion euros has been authorised for the first phase, which will cover the construction costs of a fully working telescope with a suite of powerful instruments and first light targeted in ten years time. It will enable tremendous scientific discoveries in the fields of exoplanets, the stellar composition of nearby galaxies and the deep Universe. The largest ESO contract ever, for the telescope dome and main structure, will be placed within the next year.

Image
An artist’s impression of the European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT) in its enclosure. The E-ELT will be a 39-metre aperture optical and infrared telescope sited on Cerro Armazones in the Chilean Atacama Desert, 20 kilometres from ESO’s Very Large Telescope on Cerro Paranal.

The E-ELT will be a 39-metre aperture optical and infrared telescope sited on Cerro Armazones in the Chilean Atacama Desert, 20 kilometres from ESO’s Very Large Telescope on Cerro Paranal. It will be the world’s largest “eye on the sky”.

“The decision taken by Council means that the telescope can now be built, and that major industrial construction work for the E-ELT is now funded and can proceed according to plan. There is already a lot of progress in Chile on the summit of Armazones and the next few years will be very exciting,” said Tim de Zeeuw, ESO’s Director General.

The construction of the E-ELT was approved by ESO’s Council in June 2012 under the condition that contracts with a value larger than 2 million euros could only be awarded once the total cost of the telescope (1083 million euros at 2012 prices) was funded to a 90% level. An exception was granted for the civil works at the site, which started with the groundbreaking ceremony in June 2014 and are making good progress.

For the time being, 10% of the overall project costs have been shifted to a second phase. With the accession of Poland to ESO, the current funding commitments to the E-ELT have now reached more than 90% of the total cost of the first phase that will bring a fully working E-ELT. Additional commitments from upcoming Member State Brazil are expected in the coming years.

To prevent the project from slipping, the ESO Council has decided that construction of the first phase of the 39-metre telescope can now proceed. This funded work includes the contract for the telescope’s dome and main structure — the largest in ESO's history — which will be awarded in late 2015, and leads to the construction of a fully working E-ELT.

Telescope components that are not yet funded include parts of the adaptive optics system, some of the instrument work, the innermost five rings of segments of the telescope’s main mirror (210 mirror segments) and a spare set of primary mirror segments needed for more efficient telescope operation in the future. The construction of these components, whose postponement does not reduce the extraordinary scientific achievements the telescope will already be able to accomplish at the end of phase one, will be approved as additional funding becomes available, including that expected from the upcoming Member State Brazil.

For further information consult this FAQ and Messenger article that explains the details.

“The funds that are now committed will allow the construction of a fully working E-ELT that will be the most powerful of all the extremely large telescope projects currently planned, with superior light collecting area and instrumentation. It will allow the initial characterisation of Earth-mass exoplanets, the study of the resolved stellar populations in nearby galaxies as well as ultra-sensitive observations of the deep Universe,” concludes Tim de Zeeuw.

http://www.eso.org/public/news/eso1440/
I hope I will still be around when it starts working...
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Typhoon »

Doc wrote:Delta Dawn what's that flower you have on?
It ain't no faded rose from days gone by...
UEuOpxOrA_0
Well done.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Doc »

Scientists pick up strange signals that may point to dark matter’s existence

Science
6 hours ago

Researchers have picked up strange, unexpected signals from deep space that could point to the existence of dark matter.

When it comes to one of the most elusive and hard-to-prove substances in the universe, dark matter ranges up at the top. It’s been 70 years since the existence of dark matter was theorized, and even with the decades of progress made with scientific study and detection methods dark matter has remained impossible to pin down; however, that might have all changed after scientists from Leiden University in The Netherlands and the EFPL Laboratory of Particle Physics and Cosmology in Switzerland detected a distinct transmission pattern.

Scientists found that the spectrum of light emerging from both the Andromeda Galaxy and a galaxy cluster present in the Perseus constellation were emitting anomalous spikes from regions where nothing should exist. With dark matter being invisible and undetectable – and with these regions of space corresponding to where the largest theoretical concentrations are understood to exist – researchers believe that they may have discovered evidence of the decay of a dark matter particle according to Dr. Oleg Ruchayskiy, from the EFPL Laboratory of Particle Physics and Cosmology. The discovery, Dr. Ruchayskiy adds, could revolutionize astronomy, ushering in a brand new age for the science and opening up untold secrets to further study.

Leiden University’s Dr. Alexey Boyarasky also commented on the possible breakthrough, remarking that though dark matter is ubiquitous and omnipresent, it’s nearly impossible to catch a glimpse of. Everyone in astronomical sciences is on the lookout for dark matter, Dr. Boyarasky added, but this could very well be the first sign to point to its observable existence.

The discovery will need to be confirmed, the scientist said, before new, even better adapted systems are made that could ostensibly study these dark matter particle signals in greater depth. Specially designed telescopes could soon be built to carry out these observations, which could end up in revealing the secrets of dark matter to scientists interested in reconstructing how the universe was originally formed billions of years ago, according to Dr. Boyarasky.
http://www.betawired.com/scientists-pic ... e/1422255/
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Typhoon »

108650530
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Re: Astronomy and Space

Post by Endovelico »

Tiny 'life detector' could sense alien movement: study
by Staff Writers - Miami (AFP) Dec 29, 2014

European researchers said Monday they have devised the first tiny motion detector that could help find microscopic life forms on distant planets.

Until now, scientists have tried to find signs of extraterrestrial life by listening for sounds that might be emitted from an alien world, by scanning the skies with potent telescopes and by sending robotic probes and rovers to analyze the chemical fingerprint of samples from comets and planets.

But researchers in Switzerland and Belgium were interested in a new method. Taking advantage of movement, which they call "a universal signature of life," they would aim to sense on a nanolevel the tiny motions that all life forms make.

They began to explore the possibility of searching for life with a sensor attuned to those nanoscale vibrations in microscopic organisms such as bacteria and yeast.

"The nanomotion detector allows studying life from a new perspective: life is movement," said Giovanni Longo, lead author of the paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, a peer-reviewed US journal.

"This means that the nanomotion detector can detect any small movement of living systems and deliver a complementary point of view in the search for life," he told AFP via email from Switzerland.

- Inexpensive 'life detector' -

Longo, a scientist at the Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne, and colleagues at Vlaams Instituut voor Biotechnologie in Belgium devised an instrument that is smaller than a millimeter -- just a few hundred microns in length -- that can sense the smallest nanoscale movements.

They tested it on a variety of living things, including E coli, yeast, as well as human, plant and mice cells in the lab.

In all cases, when living organisms were placed near the sensor, they "produced an increase in the amplitude of the measured fluctuations," said the study.

Longo and colleagues also scooped up soil and water from the grounds near their Swiss lab and found that the sensor could detect tiny life there, too.

Researchers found they could manipulate the movements of the life forms by adding nutrients which the cells would consume, or adding chemicals that would kill them, making the motion stop.

"The detection system can be used as a simple, extremely sensitive, and weight-efficient 'life detector,'" the study said.

Longo said a prototype would cost less than $10,000, would use very little battery power and could be contained in a 20 by 20 centimeter (eight inch) box.

- New way to look for life -

The device has not been presented yet to NASA or the European Space Agency, but efforts are under way to write a proposal and make a prototype that could travel to space on a robotic vessel or orbiter that is hunting for extraterrestrial life, Longo said.

If it had been available to the ESA's Rosetta mission, which recently sent its Philae lander onto a comet for the first time and detected water and possible signatures of life in the form of complex carbon, it could have propelled the science one step further, "determining if these conditions are still harboring life, in any form," Longo said.

If the world's space agencies find a way to use it, the detector could be used to search for life on the moons of Jupiter or Saturn, or on Mars, where it might help scientists recognize life exists in a form that they had not previously expected or understood.

The sensor could also be used to detect extreme life forms in areas that are hard to measure on Earth, such as volcanoes and the ocean floor, he said.

However, it could be years before the sensor is actually tested in space.

"It is rare that anything is 'simple' in the context of space exploration," said Ariel Anbar, a professor in the School of Earth and Space Exploration and the department of chemistry and biochemistry at Arizona State University.

Nonetheless, Anbar, who was not involved in the study, described the work as "refreshing" and a "fundamentally new idea."

"Motion-detection on such a scale has never been attempted before as an extraterrestrial life detection approach," he told AFP.

"If it is as technologically simple to implement as the authors claim, then it could be worth integrating into future mission concepts."

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Tiny_ ... y_999.html
Now that's an interesting idea! Will NASA and ESA use it in future missions?
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