Positive thinking

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Positive thinking

Postby Parodite » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:24 pm

Via Scott Adam's blog:

The Power of Trump’s Positive Thinking (Politico)

The president always has believed he could will himself to success. But has he crossed the line between optimism and delusion?
By MICHAEL KRUSE

[...]




It seems to me an important Christian theme. To believe things into reality. To overcome against all odds etc. To never surrender in the face of defeat; even of death. To call dying on a cross the greatest victory.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Miss_Faucie_Fishtits » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:09 pm

Parodite wrote:It seems to me an important Christian theme. To believe things into reality. To overcome against all odds etc. To never surrender in the face of defeat; even of death. To call dying on a cross the greatest victory.


It seemed to be a feature of scholastic theology. Theologians pre St. Augustine stuck to a more reasonable assessment of the transcendent world via the material world.......

Ockham is sometimes considered an advocate of conceptualism rather than nominalism, for whereas nominalists held that universals were merely names, i.e. words rather than existing realities, conceptualists held that they were mental concepts, i.e. the names were names of concepts, which do exist, although only in the mind. Therefore, the universal concept has for its object, not a reality existing in the world outside us, but an internal representation which is a product of the understanding itself and which "supposes" in the mind the things to which the mind attributes it; that is, it holds, for the time being, the place of the things which it represents.


I've heard it suggested that Ockham promoted the idea that reality thus can be willed into existence, a heuristic for doing so bears his name.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptualism
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Apollonius » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:37 pm

Parodite wrote:It seems to me an important Christian theme. To believe things into reality. To overcome against all odds etc. To never surrender in the face of defeat; even of death. To call dying on a cross the greatest victory.



Good thought.



BTW, there is a some discussion on Scott Adams' blog which you linked to regarding videos. While some people spoke for them, most expressed my own concerns.


I feel that video is a very imperfect medium as opposed to (using the word loosely) print.

There are too many distractions. It's not easy to go back and fact check. In a word: it is too slow.


I've noticed more and more video on the forums and throughout the online world, but even people who have a lot of good ideas, say Jordan Peterson, for example, are, in my opinion, not particularly good speakers. Some, like Victor Davis Hanson actually do speak almost as well as they write, but they are exceptional.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:51 am

Peterson is a teacher, not a speaker. I love the way he thinks out loud instead of working off a script. His eye movements, looking up and right when struggling to integrate and up and left when trying to remember are classic body language cues that one can only get on video.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:09 am

I'm pretty proud of all the OTNOT posters I have created in my imagination......
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Parodite » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:12 pm

Simple Minded wrote:I'm pretty proud of all the OTNOT posters I have created in my imagination......


Maybe if you just wish us to be real... we pop out of the wood work at one point. I even think it is inevitable! ;)
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Parodite » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:39 pm

Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:I've heard it suggested that Ockham promoted the idea that reality thus can be willed into existence, a heuristic for doing so bears his name.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptualism


Interesting, thanks. I'm a bit on a limb with all this. Nothing wrong with positive thinking as an antidote against depression and self-defeating thought. Jesus dying on a cross to me is on one hand a whats-new thing: people kill others all the time for many reasons. The element of victory here could be seen as a victory of compassion, loyalty to the good cause and morality. Or of intelligence; that physically fighting for peace is like f*cking for virginity. But if that absolves us from the need and right for self-defense that requires force and sometimes violence...

I see Trumpkin not really as a positive thinker.. more like a farmer with a plough ravaging through the field. The effect of his persona and behavior brings to the surface all kinds of interesting stuff that was hidden from plain day light and until now.. "well preserved". Look at all the old poo being uncovered!

Post-Trump potentially can be a very fertile period, depending of course also on what seeds will settle with the dust and can root. I would describe current US culture of politics as one giant compost heap. A new spring is coming. The real deplorables, the regressed left and the regressed right, are fermenting nicely. If that aint positive thinking :P
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:32 pm

Parodite wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:I'm pretty proud of all the OTNOT posters I have created in my imagination......


Maybe if you just wish us to be real... we pop out of the wood work at one point. I even think it is inevitable! ;)


That would make me god-like if not God himself!

How's that for positive thinking....

But would you be grateful, or a rugged individualist?
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Parodite » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:32 am

Simple Minded wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:I'm pretty proud of all the OTNOT posters I have created in my imagination......


Maybe if you just wish us to be real... we pop out of the wood work at one point. I even think it is inevitable! ;)


That would make me god-like if not God himself!

How's that for positive thinking....

But would you be grateful, or a rugged individualist?


I'm always grateful, especially when I feel imaginary in comparison to the real world.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Simple Minded » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:16 pm

Parodite wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:I'm pretty proud of all the OTNOT posters I have created in my imagination......


Maybe if you just wish us to be real... we pop out of the wood work at one point. I even think it is inevitable! ;)


That would make me god-like if not God himself!

How's that for positive thinking....

But would you be grateful, or a rugged individualist?


I'm always grateful, especially when I feel imaginary in comparison to the real world.


“The fountain of content must spring up in the mind, and he who hath so little knowledge of human nature as to seek happiness by changing anything but his own disposition, will waste his life in fruitless efforts and multiply the grief he proposes to remove.”
― Samuel Johnson
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Typhoon » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:42 am

Simple Minded wrote: . . .

“The fountain of content must spring up in the mind, and he who hath so little knowledge of human nature as to seek happiness by changing anything but his own disposition, will waste his life in fruitless efforts and multiply the grief he proposes to remove.”
― Samuel Johnson


A 18th century Stoic.

This idea is central and is repeated in various versions in the writings of Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius.

Happiness, or more precisely, its pursuit is overrated.

Positive thinking is fine, with regards to future goals, as long as is does not lead to denial of and an inability to confront one's current reality whatever it may be.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Simple Minded » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:02 pm

Typhoon wrote:
Simple Minded wrote: . . .

“The fountain of content must spring up in the mind, and he who hath so little knowledge of human nature as to seek happiness by changing anything but his own disposition, will waste his life in fruitless efforts and multiply the grief he proposes to remove.”
― Samuel Johnson


A 18th century Stoic.

This idea is central and is repeated in various versions in the writings of Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius.

Happiness, or more precisely, its pursuit is overrated.

Positive thinking is fine, with regards to future goals, as long as is does not lead to denial of and an inability to confront one's current reality whatever it may be.


Amen. Also very similar to Buddhism, Shakespeare (there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so) or as Viktor Frankyl stated so succinctly: "Between stimulus and response, man has the ability to choose."

Humans are god-like in our ability to ignore, rationalize, and/or label.

Obviously.... All who disagree are either racists, Nazis, or Flat Earthers!

The Optimist: "Wow! Life just couldn't get any better!"
The Pessimist: "I'm afraid you're right!"

There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so, except Global Warming of course.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby noddy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:36 pm

its much easier to fix inside your head than fixing 7 billion+ other muppets to your taste.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Typhoon » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:27 pm

noddy wrote:its much easier to fix inside your head than fixing 7 billion+ other muppets to your taste.


Quite.

Attempts to do the latter has been the cause of most of the trouble in the world, past and present.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby YMix » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:01 pm

noddy wrote:its much easier to fix inside your head than fixing 7 billion+ other muppets to your taste.


Sadly, many people think that fixing the world would fix the inside of their heads. Fixing one's head requires self-awareness and introspection. Not everyone is into that.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Simple Minded » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:45 am

YMix wrote:
noddy wrote: its much easier to fix inside your head than fixing 7 billion+ other muppets to your taste.


Typhoon wrote:Quite.

Attempts to do the latter has been the cause of most of the trouble in the world, past and present.


Sadly, many people think that fixing the world would fix the inside of their heads. Fixing one's head requires self-awareness and introspection. Not everyone is into that.


Amen gents.

YMix, IMSMO, has succinctly summarized the motivating force of most of the SJW's I've experienced. Nothing sums it up better than the patient themselves describing their need for safe space. dude, try the space envelope between your ears!

When I encounter some moral crusader's, this quote often comes to mind:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
C.S. Lewis

Of course, the upside is that without the critics, there would be no improvement of humanity. With no one differentiating between the good "us", and the bad "them" on the grayscale of morality, how could any of us achieve superiority?

That said, I think that, under my tutelage, most OTNOTers have shown enough improvement, that I feel pretty good about myself. Give yourselves a pat on the back! You guys have earned it.

No need to say it, you're welcome.
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Miss_Faucie_Fishtits » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:18 am

Simple Minded wrote:
YMix wrote:
noddy wrote: its much easier to fix inside your head than fixing 7 billion+ other muppets to your taste.


Typhoon wrote:Quite.

Attempts to do the latter has been the cause of most of the trouble in the world, past and present.


Sadly, many people think that fixing the world would fix the inside of their heads. Fixing one's head requires self-awareness and introspection. Not everyone is into that.


Amen gents.

YMix, IMSMO, has succinctly summarized the motivating force of most of the SJW's I've experienced. Nothing sums it up better than the patient themselves describing their need for safe space. dude, try the space envelope between your ears!

When I encounter some moral crusader's, this quote often comes to mind:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
C.S. Lewis

Of course, the upside is that without the critics, there would be no improvement of humanity. With no one differentiating between the good "us", and the bad "them" on the grayscale of morality, how could any of us achieve superiority?

That said, I think that, under my tutelage, most OTNOTers have shown enough improvement, that I feel pretty good about myself. Give yourselves a pat on the back! You guys have earned it.

No need to say it, you're welcome.




EDIT: dang you posted it already.....XDDDDDDD.........
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Re: Positive thinking

Postby Simple Minded » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:04 pm

Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:


EDIT: dang you posted it already.....XDDDDDDD.........


JP's video instantly reminded me of OWS and the bar scene from Good Will Hunting:




Like I said baby, you're welcome ...XOXOXOXOXO

Please go back to posting as Lzrdgrrl, just for me? Please? ;)

It feeds my non-intellectual side..... Oh yeah, i'm a five tool playa! :P
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