Etymology

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Re: Etymology

Postby Apollonius » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:15 pm

Economic bubble
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_bubble


Origin of the term

The term "bubble", in reference to financial crises, originated in the 1711–1720 British South Sea Bubble, and originally referred to the companies themselves, and their inflated stock, rather than to the crisis itself.
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Re: Etymology

Postby Azrael » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:32 pm

noddy wrote:yeh i saw the online dictionary summaries, ill have to try and chase it up fully one day.

i believe they all come from the same germanic root word,

I believe so. And, according to the dictionary link, are both related to O.E. gemot "meeting" (especially of freemen, to discuss community affairs or mete justice).

it does depend on exact usage history.

I believe so. And usage history can get very complicated, with different usage for the same word during different time periods, in different regions, among different social classes and occupations, etc.
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Re: Etymology

Postby Azrael » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:55 am

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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 am

I assume you people are familiar with http://www.behindthename.com/. It's been around for a long while, but I still thought I should share.
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Etymology of "London"

Postby Azrael » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:14 pm

Here's a controversial one: "London".

There are a number of theories already, some are listed here.

I'm going to throw in my two cents: perhaps "London" derives from the Celtic place name "Lugodunon". "Dunon" means hill fort and "Lug" could be from the Celtic god "Lug", whose messenger was the crow (lugus). An interesting coincidence, that may not be a coincidence is that the Tower of London has a legend that as long as there are ravens on the Tower grounds, the Tower of London will not fall. Perhaps the association of the area with crows, ravens, etc. is very old.

Also perhaps "Lugon" (celtic for "crow" but with singular ending "on") + "dunon" (hill fort).

"London" could also share an etymology with "Loudoun".

Wikipedia wrote:Various theories have been put forward as to the origins of the name Loudoun. One such theory is that the name was originally used in reference to Loudoun Hill, being a combination of two Scots words law and dun, which roughly translates as Firehill. Another Loudoun Hill theory is that the name was originally Lugudunon, which roughly translates as The Fortress of Lugh. It has also been speculated that the name simply derives from the Celtic word, Loddan, which means marshy ground.
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:30 pm

Torchwood wrote:This young mum is certainly not a "tweaker" , rather she is, as they say in French, une débrouillarde , that is someone who confronts problems and solves them seamlessly.


The Romanian word is descurcăreţ (m.)/descurcăreaţă (f.), from the verb a (se) descurca (to untangle, to sort out, to clarify). Every now and then I feel frustrated by the lack of an equivalent word in English.
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Re: Etymology

Postby noddy » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:34 pm

"go-getter" or "do-er" ?
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:39 pm

"go-getter" focuses, as far as I can tell, more on achievement and it has a business flavor that "débrouillard" lacks. "Resourceful" is probably closer to the original meaning.
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Re: Etymology

Postby noddy » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:51 pm

i can see that aspect, especially in a modern hyper capitalist context where everything is judged by financial success but i wonder if thats a sympton of the times more than the word itself :)

not so much in older usage, it had more of a general flavour for the resourceful and proactive types.

do-er would be the most common simmilar one in my part of the world, the people that just get up and "do" - still doesnt havent the right flavour for a resourceful young woman, its more of a male descriptor.
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:00 pm

noddy wrote:i can see that aspect, especially in a modern hyper capitalist context where everything is judged by financial success but i wonder if thats a sympton of the times more than the word itself :)

not so much in older usage, it had more of a general flavour for the resourceful and proactive types.

do-er would be the most common simmilar one in my part of the world, the people that just get up and "do" - still doesnt havent the right flavour for a resourceful young woman, its more of a male descriptor.


Exactly. And "do-er" is also not the proper equivalent because it describes the people that just get up and "do", a meaning undoubtedly derived from the Protestant obsession with keeping people busy. Descurcăreţ does not imply initiative, but simply knowing better than most people how to deal with the problems that life throws at you. Some determination and stamina are also required, but the focus is on cleverness, not effort/struggle. :D
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Re: Etymology

Postby noddy » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:10 pm

YMix wrote:
noddy wrote:i can see that aspect, especially in a modern hyper capitalist context where everything is judged by financial success but i wonder if thats a sympton of the times more than the word itself :)

not so much in older usage, it had more of a general flavour for the resourceful and proactive types.

do-er would be the most common simmilar one in my part of the world, the people that just get up and "do" - still doesnt havent the right flavour for a resourceful young woman, its more of a male descriptor.


Exactly. And "do-er" is also not the proper equivalent because it describes the people that just get up and "do", a meaning undoubtedly derived from the Protestant obsession with keeping people busy. Descurcăreţ does not imply initiative, but simply knowing better than most people how to deal with the problems that life throws at you. Some determination and stamina are also required, but the focus is on cleverness, not effort/struggle. :D


it is a masculine word but doesnt have your problems with work ethic in it - being aware and clever and making it effortless is a big part of the usage, however if thats not possible, then the pigheaded comes in :)

interesting though, would be nice to have a feminine version... we will have to steal it from the frenchies and mangle the pronunciation as per normal.
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:21 pm

making it effortless


Yes, this is an important part of the meaning. :D
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Re: Etymology

Postby Azrael » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:51 pm

noddy wrote:
YMix wrote:
noddy wrote:i can see that aspect, especially in a modern hyper capitalist context where everything is judged by financial success but i wonder if thats a sympton of the times more than the word itself :)

not so much in older usage, it had more of a general flavour for the resourceful and proactive types.

do-er would be the most common simmilar one in my part of the world, the people that just get up and "do" - still doesnt havent the right flavour for a resourceful young woman, its more of a male descriptor.


Exactly. And "do-er" is also not the proper equivalent because it describes the people that just get up and "do", a meaning undoubtedly derived from the Protestant obsession with keeping people busy. Descurcăreţ does not imply initiative, but simply knowing better than most people how to deal with the problems that life throws at you. Some determination and stamina are also required, but the focus is on cleverness, not effort/struggle. :D


it is a masculine word but doesnt have your problems with work ethic in it - being aware and clever and making it effortless is a big part of the usage, however if thats not possible, then the pigheaded comes in :)

interesting though, would be nice to have a feminine version... we will have to steal it from the frenchies and mangle the pronunciation as per normal.

Do-trix? Or is that term too hyper-capitalist?
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Re: Etymology

Postby Torchwood » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:06 pm

YMix wrote:
Torchwood wrote:This young mum is certainly not a "tweaker" , rather she is, as they say in French, une débrouillarde , that is someone who confronts problems and solves them seamlessly.


The Romanian word is descurcăreţ (m.)/descurcăreaţă (f.), from the verb a (se) descurca (to untangle, to sort out, to clarify). Every now and then I feel frustrated by the lack of an equivalent word in English.


Same here. It is usually the other way round, as due to its vast vocabulary from Germanic/French/no stupid Academie to block loan words it is usually English that has more precise words.

The French noun is from the reflexive verb se debrouiller, meaning to get by, to manage without effort, as in the response to an unwanted offer of help:
Non, je me debrouille
(Should be an acute accent on first e, but typing this on an iPad, so cannot do sodding foreign accents...)
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:56 pm

Torchwood wrote:The French noun is from the reflexive verb se debrouiller, meaning to get by, to manage without effort, as in the response to an unwanted offer of help:
Non, je me debrouille.


100% match with the Romanian word.
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Bear / Medved

Postby Azrael » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:09 am

bear (n.)

Old English bera "bear," from P.Gmc. *beron, lit. "the brown (one)" (cf. Old Norse björn, Middle Dutch bere, Dutch beer, Old High German bero, German Bär), from PIE *bher- (3) "bright, brown" (see brown). Greek arktos and Latin ursus retain the PIE root word for "bear" (*rtko; see Arctic), but it is believed to have been ritually replaced in the northern branches because of hunters' taboo on names of wild animals (cf. the Irish equivalent "the good calf," Welsh "honey-pig," Lithuanian "the licker," Russian medved "honey-eater"). Others connect the Germanic word with Latin ferus "wild," as if it meant "the wild animal (par excellence) of the northern woods."

Symbolic of Russia since 1794. Used of uncouth persons since 1570s. Stock market meaning "speculator for a fall" is 1709 shortening of bearskin jobber (from the proverb sell the bearskin before one has caught the bear); i.e. "one who sells stock for future delivery, expecting that meanwhile prices will fall." Paired with bull from c.1720. Bear claw as a type of large pastry is from 1942, originally chiefly western U.S.

___________________________________________________________________

Note: There is a phrase in English (and the same phrase or similar in other languages) that goes "Speak of the Devil and he will appear." In some cultures, from regions where the local bears are particularly dangerous, they call bears by a nickname, such as "honey-eater/medved (Russian)". They do this with the thought that what they are calling the animal is not its real name (which would be dangerous), which is why they don't use a term closer to the pre-indo-european "bher" (like we do in English with "bear") or the Latin "ursus" (like they do in Spanish with "oso"). I would imagine that back in the day, a fair number of Russians were killed by bears.
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Could any of the gun-totting US-loving forum members tell me what the word "cats" means in this context:

SWAT Leader: We're in a bad way here, send the Cats, I repeat, send the Cats!
-Léon: The Professional (1994)

Someone offered "Combined Arms Training Strategy" as explanation, but that's straight army stuff, not police. As far as I can tell, anyway.
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Re: Etymology

Postby Endovelico » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:56 pm

YMix wrote:
Torchwood wrote:This young mum is certainly not a "tweaker" , rather she is, as they say in French, une débrouillarde , that is someone who confronts problems and solves them seamlessly.


The Romanian word is descurcăreţ (m.)/descurcăreaţă (f.), from the verb a (se) descurca (to untangle, to sort out, to clarify). Every now and then I feel frustrated by the lack of an equivalent word in English.


Same root and same meaning (the verb) as "décortiquer", in French?...
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:24 pm

Endovelico wrote:Same root and same meaning (the verb) as "décortiquer", in French?...


Apparently not. DEX gives the etymology of "a [în]curca" (the opposite of "a [des]curca") as the latin word "incolicare", from "colus" (en: yarn, fr: fil).
a încurca = to entangle, to confuse, to hinder
a descurca = to untangle, to sort out, to clarify
a se descurca [the subject of our little discussion] = to get by, to manage without effort, as in the response to an unwanted offer of help [thanks, Torchwood]

décortiquer, according to Larousse, comes from "decorticare", bas latin. Not the same meaning either.
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Re: Etymology

Postby Endovelico » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:36 pm

YMix wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Same root and same meaning (the verb) as "décortiquer", in French?...


Apparently not. DEX gives the etymology of "a [în]curca" (the opposite of "a [des]curca") as the latin word "incolicare", from "colus" (en: yarn, fr: fil).
a încurca = to entangle, to confuse, to hinder
a descurca = to untangle, to sort out, to clarify
a se descurca [the subject of our little discussion] = to get by, to manage without effort, as in the response to an unwanted offer of help [thanks, Torchwood]

décortiquer, according to Larousse, comes from "decorticare", bas latin. Not the same meaning either.


Thanks. That was quite clear.
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Re: Etymology

Postby Azrael » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:47 am

hoosegow (n.) >> "jail," 1911, western U.S., probably from mispronunciation of Mexican Spanish juzgao "tribunal, court," from juzgar "to judge," used as a noun, from Latin judicare "to judge," which is related to judicem (see judge (v.)). <<
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Re: Etymology

Postby Azrael » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:04 am

sleight (n.): "cunning," late 13c., from Old Norse sloegð "cleverness, cunning, slyness," from sloegr (see sly). Term sleight of hand is attested from c.1400.

sly (adj.): c.1200, from Old Norse sloegr "cunning, crafty, sly," from Proto-Germanic *slogis (cf. Low German slu "cunning, sly"), probably from base *slog- "hit" (see slay), with an original notion of "able to hit." Cf. German verschlagen "cunning, crafty, sly," schlagfertig "quick-witted," literally "ready to strike," from schlagen "to strike." A non-pejorative use of the word lingered in northern English dialect until 20c. On the sly "in secret" is recorded from 1812. Sly-boots "a seeming Silly, but subtil Fellow" is in the 1700 "Dictionary of the Canting Crew."
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:29 pm

Yoke, yoga, con-jugal – the ”Chechen connection“…

”Yoke“, one of the most archaic and productive terms in Indo-European, present from prehistorical times in all the branches of the family, could be one of the keys for unlocking the enigma of the original cradle of the Indo-Europeans. ”Yoke“ appears to be one of the linguistic proofs that the ancestors of today‘s Europeans, Iranians and Indians spread out from a region in the vicinity of the Caucasus, and that the Proto-Indo-Europeans were in direct contact with both South Caucasians and North Caucasians.

The term is of vast antiquity and presents a remarkably regular form: Hittite iúkan, Vedic Sanskrit युग (yugá, meaning yoke, but also: pair; yoga comes from the same root), Ancient Greek ζυγόν (zugόn), Latin iugum, Gothic juk (German Joch), Old Church Slavonic igo, Lithuanian jungas, etc. So enduring was this root that it remains productive to our days in the sense of (re)uniting something, as under a “yoke”, into a “junc-tion”… that when the modern Lithuanian language had to invent the notion of a political “Union”, as in the European Union, it used the old jug-/jung- : Europos Są-junga…


http://cabalinkabul.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/yoga-the-chechen-language-and-its-prehistoric-contacts-with-indo-european/
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Re: Etymology

Postby YMix » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:43 pm

A question for the smart people posting on this forum: can anybody tell me if the English language/culture has an equivalent saying to the Romanian "pe cine nu laşi să moară, nu te lasă să trăieşti" (those whom you won't let die, won't let you live)? The general sense is to refrain from helping people who should not be helped because you might end up either paying for their mistakes or, worse, they might make you their next target.
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No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

Postby monster_gardener » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:51 am

YMix wrote:A question for the smart people posting on this forum: can anybody tell me if the English language/culture has an equivalent saying to the Romanian "pe cine nu laşi să moară, nu te lasă să trăieşti" (those whom you won't let die, won't let you live)? The general sense is to refrain from helping people who should not be helped because you might end up either paying for their mistakes or, worse, they might make you their next target.


Thank You VERY Much for your post.

How about: "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished".
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