The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

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Marcus
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The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Marcus »

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The above videos show what can happen when hunting dangerous game such as lion, leopard, bear, cape buffalo, elephant, and rhino.

What are the ethics of such "hunting" wherein the animal is killed purely for the sake of having done so and disregarding all consideration of killing for human consumption? What are the ethics of killing an animal strictly as a trophy—horns, antlers, taxidermy mount, hide, etc.?
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Ibrahim
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Re: The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Ibrahim »

Its probably the most worthless activity I can think of. Especially in the cases of these modern safaris where professionals direct the tourist to the target and all but shoot it for him. Then you get into sustainability issues where people are killing endangered species just to show off. Is it "immoral?" I guess only in as much as vanity and greed are immoral.


The hunters around my home tend to shoot things like deer, turkey and duck (all abundant in my area) and eat them. Maybe mount a head or some antlers, but consume or sell for consumption the rest of the animal. Anything else seems vaguely disgusting to me.
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Re: The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Marcus »

Ibrahim wrote:Its probably the most worthless activity I can think of. Especially in the cases of these modern safaris where professionals direct the tourist to the target and all but shoot it for him. Then you get into sustainability issues where people are killing endangered species just to show off. Is it "immoral?" I guess only in as much as vanity and greed are immoral.


The hunters around my home tend to shoot things like deer, turkey and duck (all abundant in my area) and eat them. Maybe mount a head or some antlers, but consume or sell for consumption the rest of the animal. Anything else seems vaguely disgusting to me.

Me too . . pathetically disgusting . . .
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Trophy Hunting May Be More Ethical than Alternatives.....

Post by monster_gardener »

Marcus wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Its probably the most worthless activity I can think of. Especially in the cases of these modern safaris where professionals direct the tourist to the target and all but shoot it for him. Then you get into sustainability issues where people are killing endangered species just to show off. Is it "immoral?" I guess only in as much as vanity and greed are immoral.


The hunters around my home tend to shoot things like deer, turkey and duck (all abundant in my area) and eat them. Maybe mount a head or some antlers, but consume or sell for consumption the rest of the animal. Anything else seems vaguely disgusting to me.

Me too . . pathetically disgusting . . .
Thank you VERY Much for you post, Marcus.

I am not so sure...........

Especially in a degenerate Mappo world like this under G_d's curse and inhabited by depraved sinful egotistical chaos monkey killer ape human anti-heros ;) :roll: ......

A trophy hunter may want to see the animals survive so he or she can hunt them and bag trophies.........

What interest does a subsistence farmer or poor urban person have in seeing Rhinos, Elephants, Lions, Tigers, Hippos survive?........

IMVVHO better to have a VERY well regulated reasonably high priced trophy hunting system with the profits plowed into maintaining the reserves and providing some good jobs for the locals so that these magnificent but VERY dangerous creatures survive..........

Otherwise I suspect they may go extinct from things like aphrodisiacs & luxury ivory in Asia, dagger horn sheaths in the Middle East etc........

Was recently reading an article about the effort to save the Black Rhino in Africa....

Even de-horning the rhinos does not always work........ even the stump that has to be left can still be worth $100K in Asia.......

Often shot with dart guns and the animal survives......... :shock:

Often for a short agonizing while.. :evil:

Occasionally the vets can save them... :)

The article mention one they saved.... :D

But she lost her calf.... :(

It's not trophy hunters who do this.........

NOTE: I am not a trophy hunter but have a friend who on rare occasions does go on safari/hunting expeditions.........
Has to save for years between jaunts.......
As he explains it, the money helps maintain the Animal Reserve Ranges and the local native ranger guides..
And the meat and other parts the animals not taken for trophies go to the locals for their consumption and use........
He is a bow hunter......... Once bagged a bear with a bow while on a hunting trip in Canada...........
Last edited by monster_gardener on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Ethics of Hunting for Food...........

Post by monster_gardener »

Marcus wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Its probably the most worthless activity I can think of. Especially in the cases of these modern safaris where professionals direct the tourist to the target and all but shoot it for him. Then you get into sustainability issues where people are killing endangered species just to show off. Is it "immoral?" I guess only in as much as vanity and greed are immoral.


The hunters around my home tend to shoot things like deer, turkey and duck (all abundant in my area) and eat them. Maybe mount a head or some antlers, but consume or sell for consumption the rest of the animal. Anything else seems vaguely disgusting to me.

Me too . . pathetically disgusting . . .
Thank You VERY Much again for your post, Marcus.

Another thought...........

Hunting for food may not always be ethical...........

Especially in a degenerate Mappo world like this under G_d's curse and inhabited by depraved sinful egotistical chaos monkey killer ape human anti-heros ;) :roll: ......

Recalling that AIUI that part of the extermination of the passenger pigeon involved "Market Hunting"........... Even had "Market Guns"..........

Likewise the near extermination of the American Bison.........

Taken to perhaps its most extreme as I mentioned in the Cannibalism thread, a quote from a moralistic cannibal that the only moral reason to kill a person was to eat him or her :shock:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1783

Don't like those ethics..........

Even though it is anti-waste......... ;) :twisted:

Think it may be better for chaos monkey humans to remain immoral and wasteful in their killings of each other........ :twisted:

So there is one less motive to kill......... :idea:


Have a friend from Latin America who once had a pet cat killed and eaten by a chaos monkey human neighbor.... :shock: :evil:

Both were poor :| .......... Both were often hungry :( ......... But one loved a pet person :) .......... The other killed and ate it......... :evil:

I pray that G_d never leads me into the temptation that would be involved if that happened to one of my cat daughters or dog sons or daughters........ :|

Or worse :shock:

If you are into survivalism........... Lay in an emergency supply of pet food for the furred four footed members of the family..........
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Re: The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Marcus »

Thanks for those observations, mg.

First, the "trophy hunting benefits conservation" is an argument often used by trophy hunters to justify killing an animal for a trophy.

Second, yes, the extermination of the passenger pigeon and the near-extermination of the bison were aided by market hunters. That said, agriculture as we know in would not be possible in the central states or the great plains without the decimation of those species.

But both points miss my point:
What are the ethics of such "hunting" wherein the animal is killed purely for the sake of having done so and disregarding all consideration of killing for human consumption? What are the ethics of killing an animal strictly as a trophy—horns, antlers, taxidermy mount, hide, etc.?
Trophy hunters use all sorts of excuses to pardon and justify such killing—the meat eventually gets eaten, thinning the herd, economic benefit, and so on, none of which do I dispute.

But what are the ethics of the act itself—the killing of an animal for the primary purpose of anything other than to eat—such as thrills, ego, trophy?
Catholic ethics has been criticized by some zoophilists because it refuses to admit that animals have rights. But it is indisputable that, when properly understood and fairly judged, Catholic doctrine — though it does not concede rights to the brute creation — denounces cruelty to animals as vigorously and as logically as do those moralists who make our duty in this respect the correlative of a right in the animals.

In order to establish a binding obligation to avoid the wanton infliction of pain on the brutes, it is not necessary to acknowledge any right inherent in them. Our duty in this respect is part of our duty towards God. From the juristic standpoint the visible world with which man comes in contact is divided into persons and non-persons. For the latter term the word "things" is usually employed. Only a person, that is, a being possessed of reason and self-control, can be the subject of rights and duties; or, to express the same idea in terms more familiar to adherents of other schools of thought, only beings who are ends in themselves, and may not be treated as mere means to the perfection of other beings, can possess rights. Rights and duties are moral ties which can exist only in a moral being, or person. Beings that may be treated simply as means to the perfection of persons can have no rights, and to this category the brute creation belongs. In the Divine plan of the universe the lower creatures are subordinated to the welfare of man.

But while these animals are, in contradistinction to persons, classed as things, it is none the less true that between them and the non-sentient world there exists a profound difference of nature which we are bound to consider in our treatment of them. The very essence of the moral law is that we respect and obey the order established by the Creator. Now, the animal is a nobler manifestation of His power and goodness than the lower forms of material existence. In imparting to the brute creation a sentient nature capable of suffering — a nature which the animal shares in common with ourselves — God placed on our dominion over them a restriction which does not exist with regard to our dominion over the non-sentient world. We are bound to act towards them in a manner conformable to their nature. We may lawfully use them for our reasonable wants and welfare, even though such employment of them necessarily inflicts pain upon them. But the wanton infliction of pain is not the satisfaction of any reasonable need, and, being an outrage against the Divinely established order, is therefore sinful.

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Re: The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Trophy hunting was a sport at one time, but the true trophy hunters now are photographers and those who discover previously unknown species and habitats.
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Re: The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Marcus »

Very good point, nonc, hadn't thought of it . . . thanks . .
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Re: The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Ibrahim »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Trophy hunting was a sport at one time, but the true trophy hunters now are photographers and those who discover previously unknown species and habitats.
I don't know. Plenty of examples of trophy hunting for purely status reasons or pointless cruelty. I hesitate to compare modern birdwatchers with Lord Fizzlebottom shooting a Bengal tiger from behind a protective wall of native bearers and coolies, all to make a saddlecloth out of the hide.
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Re: The ethics of trophy hunting . . .

Post by Marcus »

Ibrahim wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:Trophy hunting was a sport at one time, but the true trophy hunters now are photographers and those who discover previously unknown species and habitats.
I don't know. Plenty of examples of trophy hunting for purely status reasons or pointless cruelty. I hesitate to compare modern birdwatchers with Lord Fizzlebottom shooting a Bengal tiger from behind a protective wall of native bearers and coolies, all to make a saddlecloth out of the hide.

To my mind, all trophy hunting, then or now, is for purely status reasons at best. Nonc's reference to trophy hunting was, I'm sure, meant in the best possible sense . . what trophy hunting should be about.
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
******************
"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."
—John Calvin
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