The tendency of tech society is tyranny

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noddy
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by noddy »

at this stage i find this a bit sensationalist.

sure, the algorithms will keep the middle class sanitised crap to the front however this stuff does work both ways - many claim its the sanitising algorithms that lets the wild forces ala trump operate below the radar due to the echo chamber effects of not seeing the alternate opinions.

until we really cant make things viral by ourselves with the fwd:fwd:fwd:fwd chains ill be comfortable - my country only had 3 commerical news providers, each in bed with government so we are still miles ahead, relatively.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Parodite »

rc12FbvLGNQ

PC regressed leftism alias the new religious post-modernist fundamentalism has officially married corporate globalism. The tyrant has a face now. Maybe not too surprising since the tendency of a tech society is to be human after all. Even the algorithms that will filter out unwanted news and/or opinion wear the face of the eternally biased: human.

This seems to beg for a philosophy of "appropriate bias". It doesn't seem to be in our interest not to be biased. It also seems that the impersonal forces that allow for and fuel competition among biased (i.e. mainly self-interested) organisms also make sure no monopoly will survive very long: if one would eat all others it dies too on that same graveyard. An eternal freeze would set in where nothing moves and if any collection of particles were still able to have a thought or feeling, severe global warming would be considered paradise lost.

This suggests that in as far as tech has a tendency for tyranny it won't be absolute nor long-term because it is not alone; all things have it and there will be a counterforce co-created against the tyrant / top dog of the moment. But this is only so because the impersonal, non-judgmental, indifferent forces of nature allow for the simultaneous creation and destruction of all things, not even letting hell or heaven last forever. Does eternity exist when nothing persists forever?

We can accept natural bias, i.e. the tendency of everything towards tyranny with a smile and feeling comforted by the fact that no tyrant will sit on the throne forever. That God is dead. But it is the throne-illusion that keeps everything desiring for it.

"Fear not tech or scientism! Do however fear your own sleeping, your paying attention to your real enem..." the mouse was starting to say but caught by the cat before he finished his sentence.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Compelling post.
Censorship isn't necessary
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:rc12FbvLGNQ

PC regressed leftism alias the new religious post-modernist fundamentalism has officially married corporate globalism. The tyrant has a face now. Maybe not too surprising since the tendency of a tech society is to be human after all. Even the algorithms that will filter out unwanted news and/or opinion wear the face of the eternally biased: human.

This seems to beg for a philosophy of "appropriate bias". It doesn't seem to be in our interest not to be biased. It also seems that the impersonal forces that allow for and fuel competition among biased (i.e. mainly self-interested) organisms also make sure no monopoly will survive very long: if one would eat all others it dies too on that same graveyard. An eternal freeze would set in where nothing moves and if any collection of particles were still able to have a thought or feeling, severe global warming would be considered paradise lost.

This suggests that in as far as tech has a tendency for tyranny it won't be absolute nor long-term because it is not alone; all things have it and there will be a counterforce co-created against the tyrant / top dog of the moment. But this is only so because the impersonal, non-judgmental, indifferent forces of nature allow for the simultaneous creation and destruction of all things, not even letting hell or heaven last forever. Does eternity exist when nothing persists forever?

We can accept natural bias, i.e. the tendency of everything towards tyranny with a smile and feeling comforted by the fact that no tyrant will sit on the throne forever. That God is dead. But it is the throne-illusion that keeps everything desiring for it.

"Fear not tech or scientism! Do however fear your own sleeping, your paying attention to your real enem..." the mouse was starting to say but caught by the cat before he finished his sentence.
Well said. How to satisfy "them" when "we" can't satisfy "us?"

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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Typhoon »

On of my favourite English language sites, Quillette, apparently suffered a DDoS attack in relation to the memo by James Damore formerly of Google.

PJ Media | Libertarian Site Suffers DDoS Attack After Supporting Google Worker
Quillette Magazine, a small but respected libertarian publication based in Australia, suffered a DDoS attack Tuesday after publishing an article supportive of James Damore, the fired Google memo writer.

The attack, which crashed the site for a day, came after Quillette published the opinion of four scientists on the Google memo. The scientists found that the conservative Google employee’s views on gender differences were supported by substantial scientific evidence.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Typhoon »

Was reading an interview with Prof. Peterson and he mentioned something I thought I'd test.

Google Images: "Asian couple"

Google Image: "Black couple"

Google Images: "White couple"

No objections to miscegenation whatsoever, to me no different than blue eyed people with brown eyed people, as race based on skin colour is not a genetically meaningful concept.
However, such purposeful mislabeling does come across as problematic.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by noddy »

that is very funny and frightening at the same time.

when this wild west internet goes away - any day now - its going to be quite the frightening place and it wont be the tech giants per se that are at fault, it will be out governments and our internal contradictions on protecting the population from itself that will be the driving force.

the sterile public tv that grew out of the 1950''s didnt happen by accident and i dont trust progressives nor conservatives with the task of not replicating it.

the particular conditions that created the liberal protestant thing we all know and love are not universal and nor are they relevant anymore:/

conservatives are saying you cant tolerate evil and progressives are saying you cant tolerate intolerance.

a lovely combination of reasons to not tolerate, which pretty much encompasses the entirety of existence - not even the weather is safe anymore!
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:that is very funny and frightening at the same time.

when this wild west internet goes away - any day now - its going to be quite the frightening place and it wont be the tech giants per se that are at fault, it will be out governments and our internal contradictions on protecting the population from itself that will be the driving force.

the sterile public tv that grew out of the 1950''s didnt happen by accident and i dont trust progressives nor conservatives with the task of not replicating it.

the particular conditions that created the liberal protestant thing we all know and love are not universal and nor are they relevant anymore:/

conservatives are saying you cant tolerate evil and progressives are saying you cant tolerate intolerance.

a lovely combination of reasons to not tolerate, which pretty much encompasses the entirety of existence - not even the weather is safe anymore!
Amen! But human nature abhors a vacuum. If "we" don't play god, and f**K with other people, someone else will.

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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:Was reading an interview with Prof. Peterson and he mentioned something I thought I'd test.

Google Images: "Asian couple"

Google Image: "Black couple"

Google Images: "White couple"

No objections to miscegenation whatsoever, to me no different than blue eyed people with brown eyed people, as race based on skin colour is not a genetically meaningful concept.
However, such purposeful mislabeling does come across as problematic.
My first thought was, so, apparently, the word "couple" is generally taken to mean two people....

Kinda makes one wonder what all the fuss is about. Soon as people realize that calling someone a "Racist!" is dog whistle code speak for "I'm an intolerant SOB trying to silence you so STFU!"........ which is key to some people's income and maintaining influence..... they'll come up with another term!

kinda like how "The Coming Ice Age" morphed into "Global Warming" which morphed into "Climate Change"
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by noddy »

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/18/chi ... -xinjiang/
China is adding facial recognition to its overarching surveillance systems in Xinjiang, a Muslim-dominated region in the country's far west that critics claim is under abusive security controls. The geo-fencing tools alert authorities when targets venture beyond a designated 300-meter safe zone, according to an anonymous source who spoke to Bloomberg.

Managed by a state-run defense contractor, the so-called "alert project" matches faces from surveillance camera footage to a watchlist of suspects. The pilot forms part of the company's efforts to thwart terrorist attacks by collecting the biometric data of millions of citizens (aged between 12 to 65), which is then linked to China's household registration ID cards.

Beijing insists the strict security measures are necessary to tackle numerous incidents of violence and unrest, which it links to Islamic extremists. But activists, including Human Rights Watch, have condemned the policies as a "violation of international human rights norms." China has also been called out for restricting the religious freedoms of the region's 10 million ethnic Uyghurs, most of who are muslims, and for imposing travel restrictions on those belonging to the ethnic minority.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/18/chi ... -xinjiang/
China is adding facial recognition to its overarching surveillance systems in Xinjiang, a Muslim-dominated region in the country's far west that critics claim is under abusive security controls. The geo-fencing tools alert authorities when targets venture beyond a designated 300-meter safe zone, according to an anonymous source who spoke to Bloomberg.

Managed by a state-run defense contractor, the so-called "alert project" matches faces from surveillance camera footage to a watchlist of suspects. The pilot forms part of the company's efforts to thwart terrorist attacks by collecting the biometric data of millions of citizens (aged between 12 to 65), which is then linked to China's household registration ID cards.

Beijing insists the strict security measures are necessary to tackle numerous incidents of violence and unrest, which it links to Islamic extremists. But activists, including Human Rights Watch, have condemned the policies as a "violation of international human rights norms." China has also been called out for restricting the religious freedoms of the region's 10 million ethnic Uyghurs, most of who are muslims, and for imposing travel restrictions on those belonging to the ethnic minority.
Since all Asians look the same, how is facial recognition supposed to work? Hire Climate Scientists to take the measurements?
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by noddy »

they are looking for muslims so its easier - highlight those that dont look the same :P
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:they are looking for muslims so its easier - highlight those that dont look the same :P
Automating racism with AI, you software types are f**king brilliant. :P

Merika & SimpleMindedStan are way behind the curve compared to Middle Eastern and Eastern countries.

Time for me as grand Poobah to execute some of the leading software scientists in SimpleMindedStan.... for motivational purposes!

History shows that's how you win cultural wars! ;)
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:they are looking for muslims so its easier - highlight those that dont look the same :P
Automating racism with AI, you software types are f**king brilliant. :P

Merika & SimpleMindedStan are way behind the curve compared to Middle Eastern and Eastern countries.

Time for me as grand Poobah to execute some of the leading software scientists in SimpleMindedStan.... for motivational purposes!

History shows that's how you win cultural wars! ;)
"Hey, kid! Im'ma computah...stop all the downloadin'! Help computer!"
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
"Hey, kid! Im'ma computah...stop all the downloadin'! Help computer!"

ias31By60N8p
Too late. AI has already censored your video....... or maybe it was the Russians..... or the Joos.....
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

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dead for me too.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

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True Blue | The Coming Fall of the Meritocracy
The last five years have been marked in most Western societies by a populist revolt against the values of a leftist university-educated elite. That elite had appeared invulnerable, and increasingly separated from the rest of us, as Charles Murray described in his 2012 study “Coming Apart.” There are thus two questions to be answered: how did the elite become so cut-off and misguided, and will its rule survive the populist revolt?
One hopes. I'm not as certain.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

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Colonel Sun wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:41 pm True Blue | The Coming Fall of the Meritocracy
The last five years have been marked in most Western societies by a populist revolt against the values of a leftist university-educated elite. That elite had appeared invulnerable, and increasingly separated from the rest of us, as Charles Murray described in his 2012 study “Coming Apart.” There are thus two questions to be answered: how did the elite become so cut-off and misguided, and will its rule survive the populist revolt?
One hopes. I'm not as certain.
no chance.

the folks copping the worst of it are way too disenfranchised and dependant on the system to ever disrupt it.

we dont have peasant farmers anymore, we dont have ancestoral land anymore, we have folks living week to week in rented rooms on food which comes from complex systems dependant on stable government.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

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Simple Minded wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:46 am
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
"Hey, kid! Im'ma computah...stop all the downloadin'! Help computer!"

ias31By60N8p
Too late. AI has already censored your video....... or maybe it was the Russians..... or the Joos.....
Maybe it'll work now:

RH1ekuvSYzE
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Typhoon »

noddy wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:29 am
Colonel Sun wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:41 pm True Blue | The Coming Fall of the Meritocracy
The last five years have been marked in most Western societies by a populist revolt against the values of a leftist university-educated elite. That elite had appeared invulnerable, and increasingly separated from the rest of us, as Charles Murray described in his 2012 study “Coming Apart.” There are thus two questions to be answered: how did the elite become so cut-off and misguided, and will its rule survive the populist revolt?
One hopes. I'm not as certain.
no chance.

the folks copping the worst of it are way too disenfranchised and dependant on the system to ever disrupt it.

we dont have peasant farmers anymore, we dont have ancestoral land anymore, we have folks living week to week in rented rooms on food which comes from complex systems dependant on stable government.
Good point.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

I think the question is: are we moving away from strict certification hoops or not?

If yes, then it won't last.

The obvious answer seems to be that for now and the foreseeable future, we are not.

But that depends on how one parses the finances of universities. And what to make of several prominent tech companies showing a willingness to hire non-degree employees.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

The central theme of The God That Limps is that science and technology must be viewed in a broad social and political context. They are not simply neutral tools for solving problems, but are part and parcel of the structure of society, and this perspective is essential in understanding their social impacts.




The subjective experience I've had in thread discussions about science and technology is that everything outside of subjective perception, that is, the human condition; has been reduced to a set of problems that can be - if not already, solved and we don't have to actually think anymore. (Wisdom is obsolete and a repository of fairy tales anyhow......) We can now devote ourselves to the essential project, the creation of our imaginal selves in glorious freedom and possibility...... if you can believe some of the fandom discords out there.....'>.....
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:46 pm
The central theme of The God That Limps is that science and technology must be viewed in a broad social and political context. They are not simply neutral tools for solving problems, but are part and parcel of the structure of society, and this perspective is essential in understanding their social impacts.


I'm suspicious of any book whose title ascribes metaphysical properties to science and engineering.

Recently I was commenting to a friend that being a futurist is a great gig - one can spout buckets of bs and not be called on it.
Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:46 pm The subjective experience I've had in thread discussions about science and technology is that everything outside of subjective perception, that is, the human condition; has been reduced to a set of problems that can be - if not already, solved and we don't have to actually think anymore. (Wisdom is obsolete and a repository of fairy tales anyhow......)
What this tells me is that people espousing such stuff have no knowledge of history and no understanding of science and technology.

With regards to science, what I'm most comfortable opining about,
today there are more open questions - what we don't know - than answers - what we do know.
Vannevar Bush titled his famous report "Science, the Endless Frontier".
I would argue that the title still holds true today, some 75 years later.

Not having to "think". I don't know how to argue against this as it strikes me as obviously false.

I doubt that human nature has changed significantly since the time of the first recorded civilization about 3,500 BCE.
Wisdom is the collective empirical-historical knowledge of what works and what does not.
Acquired, at great cost, since the start of civilization.
Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:46 pm We can now devote ourselves to the essential project, the creation of our imaginal selves in glorious freedom and possibility...... if you can believe some of the fandom discords out there.....'>.....
I understand this as the belief that human nature is a blank slate - an entirely social construct - that can be changed and molded at will.
The problem is that every attempt to construct a "new man" to-date has failed and cost countless innocent lives.
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

Yeah, it's easier to create a 'last man' rather than a new man.......

I can see a problem, i'm trying to ascribe a rationale to a subjective impression of attitude and POV. I'd have to catalog dozens of examples of low resolution assertions on a number of different topics and apply them to a proposition that makes sense and promotes an argument. Hey...... that's science. I have nothing against science, I have a problem with science being used as a cudgel in a lazy manner to make points and shut down dissents.....'>.......
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Re: The tendency of tech society is tyranny

Post by noddy »

to me the problem is the dogmatic belief in science as the fixer of everything, hence any problem that ever happens is the conspiracy that not enough money is spent on preventing it or researching it.

we got that lots with the fires recently, rampant abuse of the politicians for causing the fires, because science.
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