The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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Parodite
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Parodite »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Parodite wrote: When the state is no longer an institution that represents the will and possessions (material and immaterial goods) of others and instead becomes a business like any other that serves its own interest rather than that of others... then indeed the efforts of the state to grow its own capital and stock are genuine capitalist activities. In open market competition.. monopoly, cartels, manipulation and an amount of "criminal intent" (the effort to circumvent rules and regulations) are natural phenomena and outcomes. The current USG is a very successful business, no matter how you twist and turn that reality. ;)
Except they don't do the thing that defines something as a business; sell a product on the open market.

None of this is capitalism. You can't use the word.
Well, there are two currencies : real $$ and votes. You can pay politicians with dollars and/or with your vote. What you get in return is a service or promise thereof. Pay-vote for me says the gvt.. and I will make sure various of your interests will be served best; a nice pension, health care services, education, low taxes, a nice package of regulations or deregulations to serve your particular business interests in the market... etc. The products or services you get from gvt may be total dog sh*t.. but selling dog sh*t by making it smell like roses is a very popular marketing model. The art of convincing you that you need me... even if I have nothing to offer. Part of the game.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Well technically they don't sell services, they sell laws and exemptions from laws and the market is very, very closed. Being accurate about the problem is the first step. Inaccuracy leads to failure. That is the problem with the obama movement, why it crash landed on the launch pad, they were never specific about what they were for or against, and never plotted a course to actual prioritized objectives. That is why a lot of things fail in life, an inability to specific and accurate. Vagueness and sloppiness are the enemy (see fleabaggers).
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Mr. Perfect wrote: That is the problem with the obama movement, why it crash landed on the launch pad, they were never specific about what they were for or against, and never plotted a course to actual prioritized objectives.
MrP,

I think that Obama was specific, just about the wrong thing. The word 'bipartisan' might have gotten him elected, but it was a gift beyond price to the enemy camp once he was in office.

Having said that, the muddle that is Obamacare does exist as law and will not be repealed. The Clinton plan would never have made it into law.

Alex.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

ralfy wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: Except they don't do the thing that defines something as a business; sell a product on the open market.

None of this is capitalism. You can't use the word.
It's capitalism. The owners of the means of production can be those who represent the people, and the product can be sold in a protectionist market.
No. The people who "represent the people" are called the Government, and according to your wikipedia website the means of production must be in private hands (non government) to b capitalism, and the US gov't creates few if any products.

Back to the drawing board.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

manolo wrote: MrP,

I think that Obama was specific, just about the wrong thing. The word 'bipartisan' might have gotten him elected,
Bipartisan did not get him elected. A market crash in October of 2008 got him elected. He was tied to McCain/Palin before that. One would have thought that he wouldn't need a market crash to get elected, the press told us he was the greatest politician of all time but he was tied to McCain Palin before the market crash.

His 2 biggest campaign planks were withdrawing from Iraq and gaining energy independence. Of course, he delivered on neither (we withdrew on the McCain 3 year timeline, obama campaigned on immediate, then 18 months, then finally the McCain bush 3 year plan was what happened in reality. A lot of similarity between obama, Bush, McCain).
but it was a gift beyond price to the enemy camp once he was in office.
Enemies? Kind of hard to use the word bipartisan and enemies in the same paragraph let alone the same sentence wouldn't you say.
Having said that, the muddle that is Obamacare does exist as law and will not be repealed.
We are within 18 voted of a veto override in the house today. After the election we should have the needed 51 Senate votes, and more than 18 override votes needed to overturn obama's veto.

The only real question is whether or not we repeal it next year and remove it as a campaign issue in 2016, or if we keep it and hang Hillary with the 50 million people who will lose insurance because of obamacare next year. It's a coin toss.
The Clinton plan would never have made it into law.

Alex.
Thank God. The same is true of the obama plan. What we have now is not what he ran on. Thanks be to God. His real plan never made it into law. That one would have been harder to repeal.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Mr. Perfect wrote: Enemies? Kind of hard to use the word bipartisan and enemies in the same paragraph let alone the same sentence wouldn't you say.
Mr P,

That's how wrong Obama was about it. He has implacable enemies in congress and maybe even a few outside of it. ;)

Alex.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

When you say things like this it tends to piss people off, understandably. Not good politics to say the least. Accusing people you;ve never met of hatred until proven innocent is going to have predictable results.
"The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know (pause) there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way."
"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
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obama the Ungrateful Lying Son of a Bitch Eating Menace.....

Post by monster_gardener »

Mr. Perfect wrote:When you say things like this it tends to piss people off, understandably. Not good politics to say the least. Accusing people you;ve never met of hatred until proven innocent is going to have predictable results.
"The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know (pause) there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way."
"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shepp ... led-bin-la
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Mr. Perfect,

One thing that continues to shock me a just a little about obama is how IMO publicly ungrateful the Son of a Bitch Eater is about his Grandmother who AIUI was the stable person in what passed for his first family enabling him to survive childhood and unfortunately become the LYING Menace to America and the World that he is. :roll:
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Mr. Perfect wrote:When you say things like this it tends to piss people off, understandably. Not good politics to say the least. Accusing people you;ve never met of hatred until proven innocent is going to have predictable results.
MrP,

I agree with you. When dealing with racism it's better to have the quotes.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... s-new-york

Alex.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I think it helps to have data instead of anecdotes. Data shows that black folks do the worst in Democrat Districts. This is obviously not by accident as Democrats know that if Blacks became prosperous they would not longer need the Democrat party.

Democrats only get (fake) outraged when blacks are killed by non blacks(there are political points to score off that blood). When blacks kill each other Democrats aren't bothered at all.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Mr. Perfect wrote:I think it helps to have data instead of anecdotes.
Mr P,

Agreed. Personal testimony is good in court.

Alex.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Doc »

manolo wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: Enemies? Kind of hard to use the word bipartisan and enemies in the same paragraph let alone the same sentence wouldn't you say.
Mr P,

That's how wrong Obama was about it. He has implacable enemies in congress and maybe even a few outside of it. ;)

Alex.

To paraphrase Obama: "Chains you can believe in"

Obama is a lying POS. It get rather tiring when people on the left refuse to acknowledge that. Even authoritarian in nature. Dictators always claim there are "enemies everywhere" even if the enemies are only dissenters of the authoritarian regime.

But as I have seen over and over again. Anything not leftist is of course Authoritarian inherently according to the left. On the other hand authoritarianism is great for leftists when it is a left wing dictator.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Doc wrote:
manolo wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: Enemies? Kind of hard to use the word bipartisan and enemies in the same paragraph let alone the same sentence wouldn't you say.
Mr P,

That's how wrong Obama was about it. He has implacable enemies in congress and maybe even a few outside of it. ;)

Alex.

To paraphrase Obama: "Chains you can believe in"

Obama is a lying POS. It get rather tiring when people on the left refuse to acknowledge that. Even authoritarian in nature. Dictators always claim there are "enemies everywhere" even if the enemies are only dissenters of the authoritarian regime.

But as I have seen over and over again. Anything not leftist is of course Authoritarian inherently according to the left. On the other hand authoritarianism is great for leftists when it is a left wing dictator.
Doc,

I'm confused. Does Obama have any real enemies or just imagined ones?

Alex.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Doc »

manolo wrote:
Doc wrote:
manolo wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: Enemies? Kind of hard to use the word bipartisan and enemies in the same paragraph let alone the same sentence wouldn't you say.
Mr P,

That's how wrong Obama was about it. He has implacable enemies in congress and maybe even a few outside of it. ;)

Alex.

To paraphrase Obama: "Chains you can believe in"

Obama is a lying POS. It get rather tiring when people on the left refuse to acknowledge that. Even authoritarian in nature. Dictators always claim there are "enemies everywhere" even if the enemies are only dissenters of the authoritarian regime.

But as I have seen over and over again. Anything not leftist is of course Authoritarian inherently according to the left. On the other hand authoritarianism is great for leftists when it is a left wing dictator.
Doc,

I'm confused. Does Obama have any real enemies or just imagined ones?

Alex.
Obama is the enemy of most people. Even if they don't get it.

Image

That is not to say he doesn't have many friends that have greatly benefited economically because of his presidency/
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Doc,

My question is: Does Obama have any real enemies or just imagined ones?

Alex.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:

Image
:lol: Smokin Joe delivered this famous line about 60 miles from where I live.

I told friends back home in NY the dumbass wasn't even smart enough to understand the vernacular. "Y'all" is singular. "All Y'all" is plural!

Ya gotta love it when the elites try to go homey!
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

ralfy wrote: That's assuming that the same government actually represents the people. That's likely not the case.
How does one measure that, or determine that. The government is the government. Government cannot own businesses and be considered a capitalist entity.
Also, the wiki page I mentioned refers to state capitalism.
Thus contradicting itself and being in error (aka cognitive dissonance). Do you understand that.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

manolo wrote:Doc,

My question is: Does Obama have any real enemies or just imagined ones?

Alex.
That can be asked about anyone.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Doc »

manolo wrote:Doc,

My question is: Does Obama have any real enemies or just imagined ones?

Alex.

Yes
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Doc wrote:
manolo wrote:Doc,

My question is: Does Obama have any real enemies or just imagined ones?

Alex.

Yes
Doc,

Do you mean "Yes" to real enemies, "Yes" to imagined enemies, or "Yes" to both real and imagined enemies?

Alex.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Doc »

manolo wrote:
Doc wrote:
manolo wrote:Doc,

My question is: Does Obama have any real enemies or just imagined ones?

Alex.

Yes
Doc,

Do you mean "Yes" to real enemies, "Yes" to imagined enemies, or "Yes" to both real and imagined enemies?

Alex.
Yes to all three. Plus yes to unimagined enemies.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by Mr. Perfect »

ralfy wrote: Of course, it can. It's called

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governmen ... orporation
Once means of production are owned by government it is no longer capitalism.
No, it's not a contradiction. See the second paragraph of the wiki entry for capitalism.
The 2nd paragraph of wiki contradicts the first. So wiki has some cleanup on aisle 14.
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Re: The Rise of Anti-Capitalism

Post by manolo »

Doc wrote: Yes to all three.
Doc,

Yes

Alex.
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