Faith and modernity

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:17 pm

noddy wrote:i think you watch too many soap operas and read too many left wing weirdo blogs azari - the view you have on whats going on is much fruitier than reality which is mostly straight marriages and serial monogamists.




come on, noddy, come on

1 in 3 child in UK not from their father, probably tip of the iceberg.


noddy wrote:
i doubt polygamy will get much traction, not only does it have the religious groups against it , it also has the feminist ones.

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well, polygamy does not mean "only" multiple wives, it could mean multiple husbands as well .. In France (Probably UK too) accepted community standard .. Strauss Kahn comet to mind

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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:41 pm

.


BTW : Decriminalization of Prostitution



At an international conference next week in Dublin, about 500 Amnesty delegates from more than 80 countries will vote on whether to advocate the elimination of all penalties for prostitution, based on “evidence that the criminalization of adult sex work can lead to increased human rights violations against sex workers.”

The proposal has been denounced by women’s groups like the New York-based Coalition Against Trafficking in Women, and celebrities like Meryl Streep, Kate Winslet and Gloria Steinem.

..

“Prostitution has always been considered a domestic matter, and now Amnesty could elevate it to a point of international human rights law,” said Francis A. Boyle, a professor of international law at the University of Illinois and a former Amnesty board member in the United States. He called that development “significant.”

“But why is the resolution so broad?” he asked. “Everything should be organized around that basic principle of protecting the women and girls. We should be protecting human beings, and not sex work.”

In June, the French National Assembly voted to support a law to penalize clients of prostitutes. The legislation still faces a vote in the Senate. Last month, Northern Ireland started enforcing new regulations that carry 1,000-pound fines (about $1,500) and prison terms for buyers. Canada instituted similar laws this year. Politicians in England and Ireland are also exploring the so-called Swedish or Nordic model to make paying for sex a crime. Sweden passed its law focusing on buyers 16 years ago, and street prostitution in major Swedish cities has dropped by more than half since 1995. The number of men who said they purchased sex fell, as well, by more than 40 percent in that period, according to a report this year by a Swedish government agency.




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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby noddy » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:02 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:i think you watch too many soap operas and read too many left wing weirdo blogs azari - the view you have on whats going on is much fruitier than reality which is mostly straight marriages and serial monogamists.




come on, noddy, come on

1 in 3 child in UK not from their father, probably tip of the iceberg.
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any proof for this crap that you spout over and over, a quick search says its more like the 10% thats found in any country that doesnt keep its women wrapped up in black bags and chained to the kitchen.

you sound exactly like spengler all the time - swap iran for britain and i interchange anything you both write :D

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:
i doubt polygamy will get much traction, not only does it have the religious groups against it , it also has the feminist ones.

.



well, polygamy does not mean "only" multiple wives, it could mean multiple husbands as well .. In France (Probably UK too) accepted community standard .. Strauss Kahn comet to mind

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strauss khan is an excellent example of the average westerner.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby NapLajoieonSteroids » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:29 pm

Cuckoldry is a rare thing. Maybe he meant infidelity- what does a prude like me know though?
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:24 pm

“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Parodite » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:23 am

:D more levitas than modernity and faith...or is it? To have your middle finger preserved and on display in a jar like that is a nice message to God and the people who live on after you. Or just a cool "f*ck you death!" statement.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:14 pm

Parodite wrote::D more levitas than modernity and faith...or is it? To have your middle finger preserved and on display in a jar like that is a nice message to God and the people who live on after you. Or just a cool "f*ck you death!" statement.

Maybe. I like this thread but it tends to bog down. Maybe Galileo can tell us if it is a prostate problem.
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Faith today

Postby Parodite » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:29 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Parodite wrote::D more levitas than modernity and faith...or is it? To have your middle finger preserved and on display in a jar like that is a nice message to God and the people who live on after you. Or just a cool "f*ck you death!" statement.

Maybe. I like this thread but it tends to bog down. Maybe Galileo can tell us if it is a prostate problem.


Ok back to focus. Just wondering what modernity has to do with it. Compared with its past, every present will the modernity of the day.

So making the focus even more focused: faith and the here-now. But focusing on the here-now is kinda difficult, for it requires the focus to take the here-now as an object of sorts. The focusing mind needs to abort itself from the present in order to observe and contemplate it. That is not really possible, so prostate problems as a result of such an exercise seems likely.
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Re: Faith today

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:59 am

Parodite wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Parodite wrote::D more levitas than modernity and faith...or is it? To have your middle finger preserved and on display in a jar like that is a nice message to God and the people who live on after you. Or just a cool "f*ck you death!" statement.

Maybe. I like this thread but it tends to bog down. Maybe Galileo can tell us if it is a prostate problem.


Ok back to focus. Just wondering what modernity has to do with it. Compared with its past, every present will the modernity of the day.

So making the focus even more focused: faith and the here-now. But focusing on the here-now is kinda difficult, for it requires the focus to take the here-now as an object of sorts. The focusing mind needs to abort itself from the present in order to observe and contemplate it. That is not really possible, so prostate problems as a result of such an exercise seems likely.

I did post that because it was fun. Levitas has its place in Faith and Modernity.

Modernity has its own characteristic problems like alienation, over-rationalization, health paranoia, drug abuse, and generational disconnect and discord. Faith really does help assuage these.

You can compare faith in the modern world with faith in the less modern cultures. The less modern cultures tend to have less educated faith leaders and more superstitious followers.

Faith is also a means of allowing people to rise into the upper classes. Modernity is more diverse horizontally than the old vertical social ladder, and the concept of different classes/types being able to meet as social equals is even more important.
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Re: Faith today

Postby Parodite » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:25 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Modernity has its own characteristic problems like alienation, over-rationalization, health paranoia, drug abuse, and generational disconnect and discord. Faith really does help assuage these.


These are all amplified, will not say singularly caused, by faith.

You can compare faith in the modern world with faith in the less modern cultures. The less modern cultures tend to have less educated faith leaders and more superstitious followers.


Nothing much changed.

Faith is also a means of allowing people to rise into the upper classes. Modernity is more diverse horizontally than the old vertical social ladder, and the concept of different classes/types being able to meet as social equals is even more important.


I don't think faith has done much in creating the more horizontal world. Many faithfull still pray their heads down.. or up. The psychology remains vertical.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:19 am

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Jesus was married


The manuscript is in poor condition and only small abstracts are decipherable. However, one decoded phrase has attracted much attention. “Jesus said to them, My wife ..,” the fourth line of the document reads.


What about children .. how many children had Jesus and what happened to them ?


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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby YMix » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:03 pm

Does growing up religious cut the urge to share?

Children of religious parents may not be as altruistic as their parents think, according to new research from six countries around the world.

A team of developmental psychologists examined the perceptions and behavior of children in six countries. The study assessed the children’s tendency to share—a measure of their altruism—and their inclination to judge and punish others for bad behavior.

As reported in Current Biology, children from religious families were less likely to share with others than were children from non-religious families. A religious upbringing also was associated with more punitive tendencies in response to anti-social behavior.

Many families believe religion plays an essential role in childhood moral development. The study’s results were at odds with the perceptions of religious parents, who were more likely than non-religious parents to report that their children had a high degree of empathy and sensitivity to the plight of others.

“Our findings contradict the common-sense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind toward others,”says study leader Jean Decety, professor in psychology and psychiatry and director of the University of Chicago Child NeuroSuite.

“In our study, kids from atheist and non-religious families were, in fact, more generous.”

The study included 1,170 children between ages 5 and 12, from Canada, China, Jordan, South Africa, Turkey, and the United States.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby kmich » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:41 pm

YMix wrote:
Does growing up religious cut the urge to share?

Children of religious parents may not be as altruistic as their parents think, according to new research from six countries around the world.

A team of developmental psychologists examined the perceptions and behavior of children in six countries. The study assessed the children’s tendency to share—a measure of their altruism—and their inclination to judge and punish others for bad behavior.

As reported in Current Biology, children from religious families were less likely to share with others than were children from non-religious families. A religious upbringing also was associated with more punitive tendencies in response to anti-social behavior.

Many families believe religion plays an essential role in childhood moral development. The study’s results were at odds with the perceptions of religious parents, who were more likely than non-religious parents to report that their children had a high degree of empathy and sensitivity to the plight of others.

“Our findings contradict the common-sense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind toward others,”says study leader Jean Decety, professor in psychology and psychiatry and director of the University of Chicago Child NeuroSuite.

“In our study, kids from atheist and non-religious families were, in fact, more generous.”

The study included 1,170 children between ages 5 and 12, from Canada, China, Jordan, South Africa, Turkey, and the United States.

Interesting, numerous studies have failed to detect a relation between religiosity and actual ethical behavior.

Belief is a forcible, firm, steady conception of an object. The relation to that object, human or otherwise, becomes mediated by that concept. Empathy is an immediate sympathetic response to the conditions of others. Ethics is actuated through an empathetically mediated, sympathetic, altruistic impulse to a presenting situation.

Beliefs mediate through concepts not through empathy, and while they can assist in articulating certain principles of good behavior, they do not necessarily inspire empathy in real situations when the genuine ethical tests present themselves. They can often be a barrier to empathy since the relation to the other is to the other as only concept and not as another, authentic being.

Of course, belief has nothing to do with faith, although that is a ubiquitous misunderstanding. Christian faith is about empathetic participation in the Cross which brings one into intimate relation with the suffering of others through the Christ.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:03 pm

.


Natanyahu says .. Zionism and modernity same :lol: :lol: :lol:


He said that Israel was in a battle between modernity and medievalism and "modernity must win.




Hmmmmm



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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby kmich » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:53 pm

Atheism can have a greater depth and awareness than our contemporary versions. Another perspective by John Gray:

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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Parodite » Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:09 pm

Lost Gospel of Judas Discussed at RSE Part 1

Lost Gospel of Judas Discussed at RSE Part 2

Interesting, and me likes how Bart D. Ehrman lectures.

Part 2 also kinda funny. His audience is almost entirely female, women who hope Ehrman gives clues that promote Mary Magdalena to greater importance, notably as the alleged lover or even wife of Jesus. To their disappointment Ehrman cannot really deliver.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:27 pm

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Scholars to establish modern Islamic civilization


“The renewed Islamic civilization does not mean concurring of lands, violation of human rights or the imposition of one’s ethics and culture like what the Western civilization has done; rather it equals bestowing God’s gift to humanity and enabling human beings with the capability of recognizing the rightful path,” highlighted the Leader.

Ayatollah Khamenei further referred to the West’s exploitation of Islamic knowledge and philosophy to establish their own civilization adding “even though the Western civilization offers shades of technological beauty, speed, ease as well as life facilities, it would never lead to happiness, prosperity and justice due to suffering from internal contradictions.”

“It’s high time for the Islamic world to take steps towards establishing the modern Islamic civilization,” noted the Leader asserting “to that end, scholars and intellectuals of the Islamic world rather than politicians need to take enlightening measures among Islamic nations having faith that the establishment of the new civilization is feasible.”

Ayatollah Khamenei further pointed out capacities and capabilities of the Islamic world including good lands, excellent geographical location, abundant natural resources as well as talented manpower; “a mixture of these capacities and the teachings of Islam would lead to artistic creations in all scientific, technological, political and social areas.”

The Leader evaluated the Islamic Republic of Iran as a manifestation of the possibility for achieving these objectives stressing “compared to the time before the Islamic Revolution, Iran has made significant advances in science and technology turning into one of the top few leading countries in terms of new technologies.”

“The model can be well extended to the entire Islamic world,” noted the Leader adding “the remaining prerequisite is getting rid of superpowers which is indeed a costly endeavor.”




Compare this to Wahhabi "Animal Farm" of Arab Sheikhs and Amirs and Kings :lol:


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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Postby YMix » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:05 pm

Change is already here.

The percentage of Americans who prayed or believed in God reached an all-time low in 2014, according to new research led by San Diego State University psychology professor Jean M. Twenge.

A research team that included Ryne Sherman from Florida Atlantic University and Julie J. Exline and Joshua B. Grubbs from Case Western Reserve University analyzed data from 58,893 respondents to the General Social Survey, a nationally representative survey of U.S. adults administered between 1972 and 2014. Five times as many Americans in 2014 reported that they never prayed as did Americans in the early 1980s, and nearly twice as many said they did not believe in God.

Americans in recent years were less likely to engage in a wide variety of religious practices, including attending religious services, describing oneself as a religious person, and believing that the Bible is divinely inspired, with the biggest declines seen among 18- to 29-year-old respondents. The results were published today in the journal Sage Open.

Most previous studies concluded that fewer Americans were publicly affiliating with a religion, but that Americans were just as religious in private ways. That’s no longer the case, especially in the last few years,” said Twenge, who is also the author of the book, “Generation Me.” “The large declines in religious practice among young adults are also further evidence that Millennials are the least religious generation in memory, and possibly in American history."

This decline in religious practice has not been accompanied by a rise in spirituality, which, according to Twenge, suggests that, rather than spirituality replacing religion, Americans are becoming more secular. The one exception to the decline in religious beliefs was a slight increase in belief in the afterlife.

"It was interesting that fewer people participated in religion or prayed but more believed in an afterlife,” Twenge said. “It might be part of a growing entitlement mentality — thinking you can get something for nothing.”
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:45 am

Good topic but I can't relate it to surveillance society. Sounds like Twinge has superficial research leading to superficial conclusions. I suggest reposting in the modern religion thread

Why people do not believe in God is mundane. Why some people, especially previously professed athiests, do come to believe in God is an interesting question.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Postby noddy » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:53 am

"It was interesting that fewer people participated in religion or prayed but more believed in an afterlife,” Twenge said. “It might be part of a growing entitlement mentality — thinking you can get something for nothing.”


this gave me a smile :)

Why people do not believe in God is mundane. Why some people, especially previously professed athiests, do come to believe in God is an interesting question.


spenglers was quite fixated on it being the antidote to nihilism and death.

personally im not so sure, but im quite nihilist too i sposes, relatively.


and yes, i think ymix accidently posted this in the wrong spot.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Postby YMix » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:57 am

noddy wrote:and yes, i think ymix accidently posted this in the wrong spot.


Luckily, he can also move mountains... of posts.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby noddy » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:00 am

you are most wise yshakenandnotstirred
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:05 am

No link, but no matter. It is the assumed decrease of interest in Scripture that I find unfortunate. I understand this, because today it is those without a proper education in Scripture who proclaim it loudly. It is almost as bad as politicians preaching peace and prosperity. Almost.

The Bible never claims to be completely factual, but it does claim to be "breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness" (2Timothy 3:16). Not infallible or completely exemplary, but merely profitable for use. It most certainly has been misused quite often, and with most unprofitable consequences. It's not the hammer's fault if you whack your thumb.

The big deal is righteousness: Justice. Mercy. Repentance. Forgiveness. I think if Twenge polled people on the importance of righteousness the response would be different. The question as posed panders to prejudice and ignorance.

Twinge sounds like she is coming from the wrong direction. Scripture is not for answers. It is for defining which questions are important. It is like a coffee table with a circumference of about eight centuries that ties generations and religions together in conversation and community. Twinge may be a good psychologist but it does not sound like she understands what she is trying to measure and this why only a goofy journal would publish her work.
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Re: Faith and modernity

Postby noddy » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:39 am

take facts away from the story and you are left with therapeutics ?

i remember DOU arguing such a few years back, that if you turn the story into moral fables and metaphors then the jesus sacrifice is meaningless.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Postby Doc » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:41 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Good topic but I can't relate it to surveillance society. Sounds like Twinge has superficial research leading to superficial conclusions. I suggest reposting in the modern religion thread

Why people do not believe in God is mundane. Why some people, especially previously professed athiests, do come to believe in God is an interesting question.


An all knowing and all seeing God would be spying on you. It makes some people paranoid

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