What to do about Europe's Muslims

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Post by monster_gardener »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:To move back towards the topic, RC and Shia are the only two groups in question who produce flagellants. This is only among certain subcultures within those groups, and it is not to punish the self but to experience and memorialize the suffering of another. RC has an Order of God subcult which promotes penitential flagellation, but it is a small group of zealots and serves more as a group bonding exercise than anything else.

The suicide bomber phenomenon is Jewish and Palestinian. Samson was the first suicide bomber, and along with the Masada suicide myth remains an active ideal in the Israeli mindset. Palestinian suicide bombing seems to have 'died off' now that the existence of the Palestinian genocide has reached the international community.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Nonc Hilaire
RC and Shia are the only two groups in question who produce flagellants.
Not so much.... World wise & Time wise....

Remember the pagan Roman example already cited.
The sacrificial feast followed, after which the Luperci cut thongs from the skins of the animals, which were called februa, dressed themselves in the skins of the sacrificed goats, in imitation of Lupercus, and ran round the walls of the old Palatine city, the line of which was marked with stones, with the thongs in their hands in two bands, striking the people who crowded near. Girls and young women would line up on their route to receive lashes from these whips. This was supposed to ensure fertility, prevent sterility in women and ease the pains of childbirth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupercalia


Also modern Pagans are known to engage in flagellation. :idea:
The scourge is used in Gardnerian Wicca to flagellate members of the coven, primarily in initiation rites. Frederic Lamond said that whilst Gardner never told his Bricket Wood coven which element this was associated with, he believed that as an "instrument for exercising power over others" then it should be Fire.[3] The scourge stands in contrast to "the Kiss" in Gardnerian and other forms of Wicca. These being representatives of the "gifts of the Goddess," the scourge standing for sacrifice and suffering one is willing to endure to learn, the kiss being the blessings of abundance in all life's aspects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_to ... ca#Scourge

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 141AAGiNsh


The suicide bomber phenomenon is Jewish and Palestinian.
But it is not exclusively Jewish & Palestinian.....

Recalling Japanese Shintoist Kamikaze pilots in World War 2*

Samson was the first suicide bomber,
I agree.

At the very least, the first recorded one that I know of.....

Palestinian suicide bombing seems to have 'died off'
Don't count on it.....

Probably just trying to figure out a new way to do it...... :evil:

Given that using a retarded child :evil: and a women being sent to Israel for repeated medical treatment didn't work :evil:

IIEVqFB4WUo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIEVqFB4WUo


*And also IIRC at least one incident called "3 Human Bombs" where 3 Japanese Soldiers blew up a bridge in Manchuria with bombs they carried.....
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Post by monster_gardener »

Parodite wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:The suicide bomber phenomenon is Jewish and Palestinian. Samson was the first suicide bomber, and along with the Masada suicide myth remains an active ideal in the Israeli mindset. Palestinian suicide bombing seems to have 'died off' now that the existence of the Palestinian genocide has reached the international community.
Jesus Christ Nonc, have you gone mad or what?! I know living in a caricature of life is more fun... and you seem to have joined HP in Laputa Land. ;)

Oh wait.. there is a point to what you are saying! Jesus was in fact the first suicide bomber with a death wish. The sacrifice, the turning of defeat into a victory, of personal death into a personal resurrection. There is little of that reversed reality in Judaism and Islam. The belief that it pays to be a looser is entirely a Christian innovation. The suicide bomber is Christian, I'm sorry to bring you the news.
Jesus was in fact the first suicide bomber with a death wish.
Not at all......

Jesus blew up no bombs.....

Or Reasonable Facsimiles Thereof ;) :twisted: like Samson did....
There is little of that reversed reality
in Judaism
Maybe.... Need to do more research to be sure...... No time right now...
and Islam.
Are you kidding me...... :roll:

Male suicide bombers said to get 70 Endlessly Virgin Virgins.... ;) :twisted: :lol: :roll:

Female suicide bombers get an Endless Shopping Trip at the Mall of Heavn ;) :lol:

Plus get to rescue 70 friends & relatives that would otherwise Go to Hell.... ;)
The belief that it pays to be a looser is entirely a Christian innovation
Not at all........

Kamikaze pilots also.......
The suicide bomber is Christian, I'm sorry to bring you the news.
Then why do so many of the suicide bombers pre-bomb event say "Allahu Akbar!", pray 5 times a day toward Meccas a$$ in the air in mosques, don't drink booze or eat ham sandwiches, don't eat or even drink water during daylight for a freaking lunar month, have Islamic names like MoeHamHead ;) and Ali Cat ;) and other crazy/silly Islamic things like that.
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

The Samson Option: Alan Hart interviewed Golda Meir for the BBC's Panorama program in April 1971 and asked her "Prime Minister ... You are saying that if ever Israel was in danger of being defeated on the battlefield, it would be prepared to take the region and even the whole world down with it?". Hart continues that, "without the shortest of pauses for reflection, and in the gravel voice that could charm or intimidate American Presidents according to need, Golda replied 'Yes, that's exactly what I am saying'".
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Samson Meets the Mad Mahdi......

Post by monster_gardener »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:The Samson Option: Alan Hart interviewed Golda Meir for the BBC's Panorama program in April 1971 and asked her "Prime Minister ... You are saying that if ever Israel was in danger of being defeated on the battlefield, it would be prepared to take the region and even the whole world down with it?". Hart continues that, "without the shortest of pauses for reflection, and in the gravel voice that could charm or intimidate American Presidents according to need, Golda replied 'Yes, that's exactly what I am saying'".
Thank You Very MUCH for your post, Nonc Hilaire

Given that some of Israel's enemies are insane crazy evil nut cases some of whom believe that Chaos & Evil must be Maximized before the Mad Mahdi Will Rise from his well in Qom to lead the True Muslims to Victory in addition to believing that if they die as a martyr, they get a permanent free pass into Heaven's Brothel.....

Makes it a good idea to relocate to the Southern Hemisphere.....

And promotethe idea that Orion Must Rise.....

In the form of nuke powered Orion Space Ships....

Or something/anything....

That gets Sustainable Colonies set up in Outer Space.....

Or Elsewhere....

So that a remnant will be saved.....

If Samson meets the Mad Mahdi or other Jihadi Jerks.... :evil:
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

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Nonc Hilaire wrote:The Samson Option: Alan Hart interviewed Golda Meir for the BBC's Panorama program in April 1971 and asked her "Prime Minister ... You are saying that if ever Israel was in danger of being defeated on the battlefield, it would be prepared to take the region and even the whole world down with it?". Hart continues that, "without the shortest of pauses for reflection, and in the gravel voice that could charm or intimidate American Presidents according to need, Golda replied 'Yes, that's exactly what I am saying'".
It always has been an Israeli doctrine of deterrence: the unpredictable mad dog. You never know if it only barks... or barks then bites.. or attacks unannounced in a reflex. And Jews won't hesitate to use anti-Semitism when it works in their favor. After all, the power the Jews have in the world cannot be exaggerated... but if you feel it ought to be, by all means be the Jews' guest. They can make or break the world. Inshallah.
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

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MG, methinks... suicidal sacrifice is not a core tenet of Islam at all. Self-defense is ok, as is imposing the will of Allah on others with a price attached if you reject it. Islam is about domination, about life and the joy of power. Muslim suicide bombers are a mixed bag, but part of the frustration that fuels it is the failure to dominate, which is a humiliating abomination.

The core tenet of Christianity however, as per the example of Jesus, is to die in order for others to live. Jesus didn't walk into Jerusalem on a donkey and pseudo King just to buy an ice cream. The provocation was intentional and self-chosen in order to be caught and killed by the Romans. This was however a suicide bomber exploding a moral-ethical bombshell.
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Post by monster_gardener »

Parodite wrote:MG, methinks... suicidal sacrifice is not a core tenet of Islam at all. Self-defense is ok, as is imposing the will of Allah on others with a price attached if you reject it. Islam is about domination, about life and the joy of power. Muslim suicide bombers are a mixed bag, but part of the frustration that fuels it is the failure to dominate, which is a humiliating abomination.

The core tenet of Christianity however, as per the example of Jesus, is to die in order for others to live. Jesus didn't walk into Jerusalem on a donkey and pseudo King just to buy an ice cream. The provocation was intentional and self-chosen in order to be caught and killed by the Romans. This was however a suicide bomber exploding a moral-ethical bombshell.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your reply, Parodite.
MG, methinks... suicidal sacrifice is not a core tenet of Islam at all.
Perhaps but I disagree......

Being a Jihadi Raider Devil can be VERY Dangerous work..... ;)

Infidels have been known to use weapons like Holy Water Sprinklers ;) which make the Jihadi Devils' lives drain into the Sands of Time... :( :twisted: :D :lol:

Now when on top of that, the Islamic Clergy demands a continuing Zakat Franchise Fee ;) :roll: for that Letter of Muslim Marque ;) to be a Licensed Jihadi Devil Raider... :evil:

Why not just be a Secular Irreligious Pirate on Land & Sea and Cut the Skimming by the Mule A$$ mad mullahs and other Islamic Clerics & Caliphs out :idea:

Also get to booze & eat Ham Sand Witches ;) :twisted: oops I mean ham sandwiches..... ;) Listen to Music....
Look at & do figurative art.... Be able eat & drink water OR wine during daylight during the evil month of Ramadan, Be able to have a Dog for a friend :D :idea: And a dog is more likely to be loyal to you than your fellow Muslims and Infidels if you treat him or her right... That is a big one..... Other things like that....


Unless the Clerical Clowns promise you a Poon Tang in the Sky :twisted: Retirement Program if you Die in the Line of Criminal Activity... ;) :twisted: :roll:

Which I believe makes Muslims tell Infidel like US that while we love life.....
They love death....
So they can live in Heaven's Brothel permanently... :roll:
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:The Samson Option: Alan Hart interviewed Golda Meir for the BBC's Panorama program in April 1971 and asked her "Prime Minister ... You are saying that if ever Israel was in danger of being defeated on the battlefield, it would be prepared to take the region and even the whole world down with it?". Hart continues that, "without the shortest of pauses for reflection, and in the gravel voice that could charm or intimidate American Presidents according to need, Golda replied 'Yes, that's exactly what I am saying'".
It always has been an Israeli doctrine of deterrence: the unpredictable mad dog. You never know if it only barks... or barks then bites.. or attacks unannounced in a reflex. And Jews won't hesitate to use anti-Semitism when it works in their favor. After all, the power the Jews have in the world cannot be exaggerated... but if you feel it ought to be, by all means be the Jews' guest. They can make or break the world. Inshallah.
Seems a reasonable defense to take when your foes are willing to kill themselves to take you out. I have long thought that fighting suicide bombers should be personalized rather than nationalized or religionized.

As with many on the right and the left, once it comes time to actually pay for the cost of their ideology, they will flinch, if not outright capitulate.

"Terror attacks against our interests will consist of retaliation that will be punished by the deaths of all sons, daughters, wives, husbands, siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, and cousins of the attackers."

If you decide to go martyr for your cause, super! But you best not tell your relatives or neighbors, unless they share your conviction and are willing to pay the same price. Little brother, or wife, or Dad might find it very easy to take Fred out of the game if it will save the lives of their loved ones.
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Parodite wrote:MG, methinks... suicidal sacrifice is not a core tenet of Islam at all. Self-defense is ok, as is imposing the will of Allah on others with a price attached if you reject it. Islam is about domination, about life and the joy of power. Muslim suicide bombers are a mixed bag, but part of the frustration that fuels it is the failure to dominate, which is a humiliating abomination.
Yes.
Parodite wrote:The core tenet of Christianity however, as per the example of Jesus, is to die in order for others to live. Jesus didn't walk into Jerusalem on a donkey and pseudo King just to buy an ice cream. The provocation was intentional and self-chosen in order to be caught and killed by the Romans. This was however a suicide bomber exploding a moral-ethical bombshell.
No.
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

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Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Parodite wrote:MG, methinks... suicidal sacrifice is not a core tenet of Islam at all. Self-defense is ok, as is imposing the will of Allah on others with a price attached if you reject it. Islam is about domination, about life and the joy of power. Muslim suicide bombers are a mixed bag, but part of the frustration that fuels it is the failure to dominate, which is a humiliating abomination.
Yes.
Parodite wrote:The core tenet of Christianity however, as per the example of Jesus, is to die in order for others to live. Jesus didn't walk into Jerusalem on a donkey and pseudo King just to buy an ice cream. The provocation was intentional and self-chosen in order to be caught and killed by the Romans. This was however a suicide bomber exploding a moral-ethical bombshell.
No.
Yes.
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Post by monster_gardener »

Simple Minded wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:The Samson Option: Alan Hart interviewed Golda Meir for the BBC's Panorama program in April 1971 and asked her "Prime Minister ... You are saying that if ever Israel was in danger of being defeated on the battlefield, it would be prepared to take the region and even the whole world down with it?". Hart continues that, "without the shortest of pauses for reflection, and in the gravel voice that could charm or intimidate American Presidents according to need, Golda replied 'Yes, that's exactly what I am saying'".
It always has been an Israeli doctrine of deterrence: the unpredictable mad dog. You never know if it only barks... or barks then bites.. or attacks unannounced in a reflex. And Jews won't hesitate to use anti-Semitism when it works in their favor. After all, the power the Jews have in the world cannot be exaggerated... but if you feel it ought to be, by all means be the Jews' guest. They can make or break the world. Inshallah.
Seems a reasonable defense to take when your foes are willing to kill themselves to take you out. I have long thought that fighting suicide bombers should be personalized rather than nationalized or religionized.

As with many on the right and the left, once it comes time to actually pay for the cost of their ideology, they will flinch, if not outright capitulate.

"Terror attacks against our interests will consist of retaliation that will be punished by the deaths of all sons, daughters, wives, husbands, siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, and cousins of the attackers."

If you decide to go martyr for your cause, super! But you best not tell your relatives or neighbors, unless they share your conviction and are willing to pay the same price. Little brother, or wife, or Dad might find it very easy to take Fred out of the game if it will save the lives of their loved ones.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Simple Minded.

"Terror attacks against our interests will consist of retaliation that will be punished by the deaths of all sons, daughters, wives, husbands, siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, and cousins of the attackers."

If you decide to go martyr for your cause, super! But you best not tell your relatives or neighbors, unless they share your conviction and are willing to pay the same price. Little brother, or wife, or Dad might find it very easy to take Fred out of the game if it will save the lives of their loved ones.
Yes.

This can work.

If done by someone Diligent & Cunning like the Talented Mr. Putin, President Premier Prince Vlad the Imprisoner and Supreme Leader of the Russian Were-Bears....

Long ago & faraway in the Middle East when the Islamic Terrorists were VERY successfully kidnapping Americans & other Westerners stupidly foolish enough to working to benefit the natives :roll: at places like the American University in Beirut, Lebanon, the Islamic Terrorists, the HezBozos of Hezbollah IIRC, decide to branch out and kidnap Russian diplomats as well to get the Russian Bears to exert pressure in favor of the HezoBozo Killer Klowns from Iranian Islamic Space....

When the Russians didn't move fast enough to suit the Islamic Killer Klowns, they killed one Russian and dumped his body at a dump to send a message to Moscow....

The Russian Bears sent back a message of their own... :twisted:

Instead of getting touchy feely with the Mahdi Mad mad mullahs of Iran like soft hearted President Reagan shamefully did in Iran-Contra :roll: , the Russians kidnapped the brother of the Head Islamic Killer Klown Kidnapper and depending on the version of the story sent the Head Klown a photo of his brother with a gun pointed at his head and/or a VERY sensitive & pleasurable part of the brother's body :twisted:

The Islamic Killer Klown Kidnappers released their remaining Russian captives as quick as they could and scooted away in their expensive fancy car.....

And NEVER dared to kidnap another Russian....

This is something for which I have admired the Russians for decades....

Not sure that this would work against real True Believers......
But it seems to sometimes work against others who are not quite as fervent.....
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by manolo »

Folks,

Walking through the city the other day I noticed some kerfuffle around a mosque. I snooped and found some older boys berating younger ones about not going to prayers.

I laughed at the thought of the same happening with us heathen Brits. :)

Alex.
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

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In Portugal there may be about 50,000 Muslims, mostly from Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colonies), who have blended so well with the Portuguese community that we hardly notice them. They have their mosques - of which a rather visible one in Lisbon - they go about their own business like everybody else, their imams are good, peaceful people, and I have no indication that there is any radicalism among them. If Muslims behaved like this everywhere in Europe, there wouldn't be a Muslim issue. Of course this requires locals readily accepting Muslims in their midst, which is not always the case. The fact that we have Muslim, Berber ancestors, may explain why we don't bother much about whatever Muslims we have now in our country.
Simple Minded

Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by Simple Minded »

manolo wrote:Folks,

Walking through the city the other day I noticed some kerfuffle around a mosque. I snooped and found some older boys berating younger ones about not going to prayers.

I laughed at the thought of the same happening with us heathen Brits. :)

Alex.
Alex,

It is good to know that the British version of the Bible Belt is the Koran Belt. :)

The similarities between the UK and the US are many. More than a few Northern Merikans would laugh at the devotees of the south.

What are all y'all gonna do about those pesky Scots?
Simple Minded

Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by Simple Minded »

Endovelico wrote:In Portugal there may be about 50,000 Muslims, mostly from Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colonies), who have blended so well with the Portuguese community that we hardly notice them. They have their mosques - of which a rather visible one in Lisbon - they go about their own business like everybody else, their imams are good, peaceful people, and I have no indication that there is any radicalism among them. If Muslims behaved like this everywhere in Europe, there wouldn't be a Muslim issue. Of course this requires locals readily accepting Muslims in their midst, which is not always the case. The fact that we have Muslim, Berber ancestors, may explain why we don't bother much about whatever Muslims we have now in our country.
too bad the northern Yurps are not as civilized.... :)
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

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Endovelico wrote:In Portugal there may be about 50,000 Muslims, mostly from Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colonies), who have blended so well with the Portuguese community that we hardly notice them. They have their mosques - of which a rather visible one in Lisbon - they go about their own business like everybody else, their imams are good, peaceful people, and I have no indication that there is any radicalism among them. If Muslims behaved like this everywhere in Europe, there wouldn't be a Muslim issue. Of course this requires locals readily accepting Muslims in their midst, which is not always the case. The fact that we have Muslim, Berber ancestors, may explain why we don't bother much about whatever Muslims we have now in our country.
When traveling in northern Europe I came across a group of Muslims known as the Lipka Tatars who have lived there since the 14th century or so.

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Is it funny when it happens to you?

Post by monster_gardener »

manolo wrote:Folks,

Walking through the city the other day I noticed some kerfuffle around a mosque. I snooped and found some older boys berating younger ones about not going to prayers.

I laughed at the thought of the same happening with us heathen Brits. :)

Alex.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Alex Manolo eThinker.

I snooped and found some older boys berating younger ones about not going to prayers.

I laughed at the thought of the same happening with us heathen Brits. :)
Sarcasm ON/

I'm sure Christians and Yadizis in Iraq & Syria find religious enforcement like that equally humorous especially when it is done by British Muslims like Jihad John Bari.... ;) :twisted: :evil: :roll:

Sarcasm OFF/
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by manolo »

monster,

I like your sarcasm button. I've been using irony on forums for years and it is often missed. There is some mild amusement in seeing people miss, but it does hinder debate. There was one thread in which I agreed with a guy about everything until it had reached ludicrous levels and he never mentioned that I might have been joshing him. Maybe he knew or maybe he didn't?

Anyway I had better not digress any more or booklady will upbraid me again - Oh - hang on - she isn't on this forum. :? :? :roll:

Alex.
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Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by Endovelico »

Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:In Portugal there may be about 50,000 Muslims, mostly from Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colonies), who have blended so well with the Portuguese community that we hardly notice them. They have their mosques - of which a rather visible one in Lisbon - they go about their own business like everybody else, their imams are good, peaceful people, and I have no indication that there is any radicalism among them. If Muslims behaved like this everywhere in Europe, there wouldn't be a Muslim issue. Of course this requires locals readily accepting Muslims in their midst, which is not always the case. The fact that we have Muslim, Berber ancestors, may explain why we don't bother much about whatever Muslims we have now in our country.
When traveling in northern Europe I came across a group of Muslims known as the Lipka Tatars who have lived there since the 14th century or so.

Image
Today there are about 10,000-15,000 Lipka Tatars in the former areas of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth...
And not all of them are Muslim. Hardly worth mentioning in the context of European-Muslim relations.
Simple Minded

Re: What to do about Europe's Muslims

Post by Simple Minded »

Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:In Portugal there may be about 50,000 Muslims, mostly from Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colonies), who have blended so well with the Portuguese community that we hardly notice them. They have their mosques - of which a rather visible one in Lisbon - they go about their own business like everybody else, their imams are good, peaceful people, and I have no indication that there is any radicalism among them. If Muslims behaved like this everywhere in Europe, there wouldn't be a Muslim issue. Of course this requires locals readily accepting Muslims in their midst, which is not always the case. The fact that we have Muslim, Berber ancestors, may explain why we don't bother much about whatever Muslims we have now in our country.
When traveling in northern Europe I came across a group of Muslims known as the Lipka Tatars who have lived there since the 14th century or so.

Image
Today there are about 10,000-15,000 Lipka Tatars in the former areas of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth...
And not all of them are Muslim. Hardly worth mentioning in the context of European-Muslim relations.
The bad news is that the Lipka Tatars are hardly worth mentioning in the contest (Freudian typo) of European-Muslim relations.

The good news is the same is true for everyone else! :)
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