What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

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Parodite
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Parodite »

Nap, I started the thread just for us to play with the concept... ye know.. individuals that are in a common project on OTNOT. ;)

Why do people suppose that a rugged individualist is/wants to be without any relationship with others? That confuses a rugged individualist with a hermit or autist.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:What a bunch of ninny-ism.

We are talking about a political slogan "rugged individual" and you lot head to the woods and survivalists and anarchy. What feverish imagination.

Rugged individual was a nice way for Herbert Hoover to say the government shouldn't be involved in society. It's basically the old bourgeoisie period between absolutist states and totalitarian ones. Of course, running on that when everyone was going nazi...err native....with these grand collectivist plans wasn't not too hip.

It looked even sillier with that whole depression thing. Ooops.

But half of 'ya advocating for more decentralization are basically begging for rugged individualism.

I think the saying goes:

Be careful not to look a gift hobo in the mouth. :?
C'mon Nap,

I always thought the raison d'etre for OTNOT was to push the envelope of intellectual intellectualism, moralistic moralism, Collectivist collectivism, and relativistic relativism. I thought it was in our Missionary Statement.

there's another sayin we use at the SimpleMindedStan Institute for the Gifted (SMSIG):

If you can't run with the big dogs, stay under the porch! ;)

Get back in the game Big Dog, our side needs you.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Parodite wrote:Nap, I started the thread just for us to play with the concept... ye know.. individuals that are in a common project on OTNOT. ;)


I think you are missing something in translation :)

(though granted, it doesn't come out sharp in this medium- but you are going to have to fight me with knives to make me concede that point!)
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

At the very least, I think we have established, that individuals can not reach concurrence on the definition of individualism, any more than the collective can agree on the definition of collectivism.

Is this common ground?
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Simple Minded wrote:C'mon Nap,


wrong. You c'mon.
I always thought the raison d'etre for OTNOT was to push the envelope of intellectual intellectualism, moralistic moralism, Collectivist collectivism, and relativistic relativism. I thought it was in our Missionary Statement.
only collectivists use envelopes- 'cause they have a fruity mail system to send letters through.
there's another sayin we use at the SimpleMindedStan Institute for the Gifted (SMSIG):

If you can't run with the big dogs, stay under the porch! ;)

Get back in the game Big Dog, our side needs you.
There is an old Norm MacDonald bit I'm rather fond of, despite it's poor taste. By old I mean, told at the start of the recession. It went something like, "You know, if I had the money to invest you know what I'd invest in? Guys jumpin' off the top of buildings" [which elicits groans] "You'd think that's not going to happen, but soon it will be very big! And then those guys won't be powerful anymore, 'cause most of them will be dead and the rest severely crippled. And so the powerful guys will be the old hobos- the ones from the original depression."
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by noddy »

i was going to do an ode to passive conformism but im waiting for step by step instructions.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Parodite wrote:Nap, I started the thread just for us to play with the concept... ye know.. individuals that are in a common project on OTNOT. ;)

Why do people suppose that a rugged individualist is/wants to be without any relationship with others? That confuses a rugged individualist with a hermit or autist.
Most people have only so much time in the day to determine appellations- rugged individualists make horrible proselytizers for their cause. The successful ones just skip that tag or use another one but it is very easy to slip into the maladroit pile from there.

Isn't it fascinating to see what terms make outsiders eyes just glaze over?
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Endovelico »

Parodite wrote:Why do people suppose that a rugged individualist is/wants to be without any relationship with others? That confuses a rugged individualist with a hermit or autist.
He does want to have a relationship with others. One in which he ruthlessly exploits the others for his own benefit...A rugged individualist couldn't stand living on a desert island...
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by YMix »

noddy wrote:i was going to do an ode to passive conformism but im waiting for step by step instructions.
I was going to do an ode to passive-aggressivism, but never mind!
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by noddy »

YMix wrote:
noddy wrote:i was going to do an ode to passive conformism but im waiting for step by step instructions.
I was going to do an ode to passive-aggressivism, but never mind!
i was going to do an ode to blunt aggressivism but f*ck you!

then i started on an ode to modern socialism but noone would lend me any words.
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by YMix »

noddy wrote:then i started on an ode to modern socialism but noone would lend me any words.
Nor any ears.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by noddy »

YMix wrote:
noddy wrote:then i started on an ode to modern socialism but noone would lend me any words.
Nor any ears.
selfish bastards, its enough to drive someone to the mountains.
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Parodite
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Parodite »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Parodite wrote:Nap, I started the thread just for us to play with the concept... ye know.. individuals that are in a common project on OTNOT. ;)

Why do people suppose that a rugged individualist is/wants to be without any relationship with others? That confuses a rugged individualist with a hermit or autist.
Most people have only so much time in the day to determine appellations- rugged individualists make horrible proselytizers for their cause. The successful ones just skip that tag or use another one but it is very easy to slip into the maladroit pile from there.

Isn't it fascinating to see what terms make outsiders eyes just glaze over?
I find it very informative to discuss all this not because I think there is an engraved in gold definition of "rugged individualism" that we all desperately seek to uncover (it ain't existing), but what associated ideas and opinions it triggers in each of us here and how we respond to them.

My initial tongue in cheek was to Mr.P. who considers himself a rugged individualist, making me wonder if "real" rugged individualists would bother much about others like Obama, gay/poly marriage, liberals.. as much as Mr. P. does.

What I associate with "a rugged individualist" does certainly not fit somebody like Mr.P.; he bothers himself waaaay too much with others who hardly are a threat to his rugged individualist life style or interests. But of course... Mr.P.might have totally different idea about rugged individualism.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Most people have only so much time in the day to determine appellations- rugged individualists make horrible proselytizers for their cause. The successful ones just skip that tag or use another one but it is very easy to slip into the maladroit pile from there.

Isn't it fascinating to see what terms make outsiders eyes just glaze over?
True enough.

I think you have identified the killer of most threads. After a few rounds, it all seems soap opera-ish, or playground-ish, or university stoner-ish. ;)

"In my opinion, group X believes in unicorns. Anyone who self-identifies as a member of group X, and claims they not believe in unicorns, is not a true representative of group X...., at least according to my prejudices."

Foci, and interpretation seem pretty subjective.
Last edited by Simple Minded on Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:
I find it very informative to discuss all this not because I think there is an engraved in gold definition of "rugged individualism" that we all desperately seek to uncover (it ain't existing), but what associated ideas and opinions it triggers in each of us here and how we respond to them.

My initial tongue in cheek was to Mr.P. who considers himself a rugged individualist, making me wonder if "real" rugged individualists would bother much about others like Obama, gay/poly marriage, liberals.. as much as Mr. P. does.

What I associate with "a rugged individualist" does certainly not fit somebody like Mr.P.; he bothers himself waaaay too much with others who hardly are a threat to his rugged individualist life style or interests. But of course... Mr.P.might have totally different idea about rugged individualism.
I enjoyed the thread Bro. Thanks.

"We" couldn't define rugged or individualism, but "we" exposed a few fresh piles of it. Just as we have often done for justice, fair, right, left, liberal, conservative, capitalist, socialist, Merikan, Yuropean, etc.

I warned you guys about this intellectual black hole, but warning "rugged individualists" about consequences is like talking to a wall....... ;)
Last edited by Simple Minded on Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:
YMix wrote:
noddy wrote:then i started on an ode to modern socialism but noone would lend me any words.
Nor any ears.
selfish bastards, its enough to drive someone to the mountains.
A rugged individualist would ode away, all day, even without an audience....... those who wish to be admired/appreciated as special snowflakes, give up to easily.

As long as you got a transmitter, who cares if receivers even exist? 8-)

Whoa!! :shock: New Thread subject? Do receivers exist? :shock: Are they rarer than Bigfoot? :?

You were on the right track with "f*ck you." Or better yet, "f*ck all, ya all!"

I actually heard a guy from SC say that to a room full of people once. It was great. :D Stralia is even farther south than SC...... ;) Did you know that? :)
Last edited by Simple Minded on Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
There is an old Norm MacDonald bit I'm rather fond of, despite it's poor taste. By old I mean, told at the start of the recession. It went something like, "You know, if I had the money to invest you know what I'd invest in? Guys jumpin' off the top of buildings" [which elicits groans] "You'd think that's not going to happen, but soon it will be very big! And then those guys won't be powerful anymore, 'cause most of them will be dead and the rest severely crippled. And so the powerful guys will be the old hobos- the ones from the original depression."
I never appreciated Norm MacDonald's humor on SNL. But about six month ago or so, I heard several interviews of him on Dennis Miller's radio show, and became a fan. Check out the 03/27/2015 show.

He had a great give and take about his invisible friend.

from memory: "Did I ever tell you about my invisible friend? He's kinda of a nice guy, but a little sensitive. Ya never know what is gonna set him off. What a hothead. It's not like he's evil ya see, but just ignorant. he doesn't know any thing about any thing. But he thinks he does, ya know."

http://www.dennismillerradio.com/blog?a ... 0Macdonald
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kmich
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by kmich »

Parodite wrote:
kmich wrote:"Individualism" vs "collectivism" is a false dichotomy. "Individualism" has no meaning outside a relational context with a collective reference.

Any success human beings have achieved as a species has been from their capacity for coordination and cooperation not from their power as individuals. The promotion of "Individualism" is only a narcissistic recoil from how dependent we have become on others and on the institutions of our contemporary civilization. Contemporary "libertarianism" is a utopian fantasy to soothe egos wounded by our complex, relational dependencies.
Way too much stereotyping. Perhaps even projection.
The customary fatuous, glib dismissal without content. (Parodite™) :roll:
Parodite wrote:
kmich wrote:There is BS in any conceptual identification including the fixation on the perceived credulousness of the so-called "religious"
I think every human being with a unique character that is changing during a life time.. will approach things and behave accordingly. And there are things like matter of taste, pre-conceived conceptions and prejudice.

The way you once described your religious / existential struggle comes off to me as self-centered. Where you once explained that "one has to gently move oneself out of the way.. to let God etc...". Super-self gently moves aside lower-self? It boggles the mind... but it does come off as an adolescent identity crisis. ;)
Mmmm. I suppose if one's own development is stuck in their own adolescence, a mature discussion of faith would have to be shoehorned into their self-centered frame. Perhaps even projection? :lol:
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

Rugged individuals neither seek nor desire confirmation bias. Am I right?
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kmich
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by kmich »

Simple Minded wrote:Rugged individuals neither seek nor desire confirmation bias. Am I right?
There is no definitional clarity here, SM. How a so-called "rugged individualist" operates will all depend, in the end, on what they as "individuals" want, believe, or have been taught by others about that appellation.

I suppose you could use "neither seeking nor desiring confirmation bias" as a working definition, but that would likely be intellectually dishonest since that kind of "rugged individualist" would likely be "seeking and desiring" confirmation of the "dispassionate" pretense and identify strongly with others who share it.
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Parodite »

I would like to compare the rugged individualist with the unshaved catholic. Differences, similarities?
Deep down I'm very superficial
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kmich
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by kmich »

Parodite wrote:I would like to compare the rugged individualist with the unshaved catholic. Differences, similarities?
No much difference, but different decisions in their fashion choices:

"Rugged Individualist:"

Image

Unshaven Catholic:

Image

;)
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Parodite
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Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Parodite »

:D +1 The similarity is indeed striking.. and worrying.
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Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

kmich wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:Rugged individuals neither seek nor desire confirmation bias. Am I right?
There is no definitional clarity here, SM. How a so-called "rugged individualist" operates will all depend, in the end, on what they as "individuals" want, believe, or have been taught by others about that appellation.

I suppose you could use "neither seeking nor desiring confirmation bias" as a working definition, but that would likely be intellectually dishonest since that kind of "rugged individualist" would likely be "seeking and desiring" confirmation of the "dispassionate" pretense and identify strongly with others who share it.
Kmich,

I thought the intended humor in my earlier post was so obvious, I decide to skip the emoticons. The good news is individuals still can not define individualism..... of any kind. Thankfully.

Behaving in a certain manner in order to effect a specific opinion of oneself in the mind of the observer, often results in a self-created hell. Why would one be concerned about the opinion of those people that they have not looked in the eye, nor shaken their hand? Vanity? Ego?

Behaving in a selfish, or selfless manner....... in order to gain the approval of others? Hmmmmm........ common ground at last. At least when there is common ground, and not giving a hoot when there is no common ground.

Rugged individuals co-operate, and collectivist discriminate and exclude. Go Team Humanity!!! ;)

"We do not content ourselves with the life we have in ourselves and in our own being; we desire to live an imaginary life in the mind of others, and for this purpose we endeavor to shine. We labor unceasingly to adorn and preserve this imaginary existence and neglect the real. A great proof of the nothingness of our being, not to be satisfied with the one without the other, and to renounce so often the one for the other!"
Blaise Pascal
Last edited by Simple Minded on Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
Simple Minded

Re: What does it mean to be a rugged individualist?

Post by Simple Minded »

Parodite wrote:Nap, I started the thread just for us to play with the concept... ye know.. individuals that are in a common project on OTNOT. ;)

Why do people suppose that a rugged individualist is/wants to be without any relationship with others? That confuses a rugged individualist with a hermit or autist.
Parodite,

That is the 100% or 0%, binary perspective that so many of these topics devolve into. I think it has more to do with the imagination, and the internal labeling process of the reader, than anything the poster submits.

"We" all know how "those people" think? Right? Yeah, sure, this one claims he doesn't think like that, but he's either lying about how he thinks, or lying about being one of "them."

Mental laziness? An inability to understand? A lack of time to understand? Or since so little can actually be transmitted in text, compared to the subtleties and nuances of reality, many will not make the effort?

I once heard the opinion, that "For some, conversation is a competitive sport. Winning is more important than understanding."
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