On the Nature of Things | Forum

The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent;
but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.

~ Stanley Kubrick. Interviewed by Eric Nordern, Playboy (September 1968); later published in Stanley Kubrick: Interviews (2001)

If man merely sat back and thought about his impending termination, and his terrifying insignificance and aloneness in the cosmos, he would surely go mad, or succumb to a numbing sense of futility. Why, he might ask himself, should he bother to write a great symphony, or strive to make a living, or even to love another, when he is no more than a momentary microbe on a dust mote whirling through the unimaginable immensity of space? ...

Those of us who are forced by their own sensibilities to view their lives in this perspective — who recognize that there is no purpose they can comprehend and that amidst a countless myriad of stars their existence goes unknown and unchronicled — can fall prey all too easily to the ultimate anomie. … The world's religions, for all their parochialism, did supply a kind of consolation for this great ache … This shattering recognition of our mortality is at the root of far more mental illness than I suspect even psychiatrists are aware.

~ Stanley Kubrick. Interviewed by Eric Nordern, Playboy (September 1968)

manolo wrote:. . .

What use is a stillbirth or miscarriage in the Christian story of sanctity of life? If aborting a foetus is such an insult to God's will and love of us, then why does this same thing happen naturally? We are brought back to Karamazov with full force, questioning why we should put all our faith in such a celestial abortionist? It is not an easy answer.

Alex.

Is there evil in this world?

Typhoon wrote:
Bemused and amused.

Typhoon wrote:

manolo wrote:. . .

What use is a stillbirth or miscarriage in the Christian story of sanctity of life? If aborting a foetus is such an insult to God's will and love of us, then why does this same thing happen naturally? We are brought back to Karamazov with full force, questioning why we should put all our faith in such a celestial abortionist? It is not an easy answer.

Alex.

Most early stage fetuses are spontaneously aborted due to naturally occurring errors. The woman is often not even aware that such a miscarriage has taken place.
The debate about abortion arises from base ignorance.

As for the question of a "celestial abortionist",
my personal solution is to have decided, in my preteens, that I have no need to concern myself with such a "Josef Stalin of the Universe",
as the Czech - Canadian writer Škvorecký so accurately characterized such a deity, if s/he exists.

Anecdote. I joined an English language [support, so-called] group for people with my rare health condition.

Some members have recently started to receive that same experimental treatment as I receive with similar positive results.

They often write stuff such as "God answered my prayers."

I think to myself,
"Unless you are referring to your prescribing physician in the most honorific terms, it is the R&D of medical researchers that you should be thanking.
Or were you actually praying to develop this very rare, progressive, and eventually fatal systemic disorder."

Bemused and amused.

Abstract

Publication of medical research is the cornerstone for the propagation and dissemination of medical knowledge, culminating in significant effects on the health of the world's population. However, instances of individuals and institutions subverting the ethos of honesty and integrity on which medical research is built in order to advance personal ambitions have been well documented. Many definitions to describe this unethical behavior have been postulated, although the most descriptive is the “FFP” (fabrication, falsification, and plagiarism) model put forward by the United States’ Office of Research Integrity. Research misconduct has many ramifications of which the world's media are all too keen to demonstrate. Many high-profile cases the world over have demonstrated this lack of ethics when performing medical research. Many esteemed professionals and highly regarded world institutions have succumbed to the ambitions of a few, who for personal gains, have behaved unethically in pursuit of their own ideals. Although institutions have been set up to directly confront these issues, it would appear that a lot more is still required on the part of journals and their editors to combat this behavioral pattern. Individuals starting out at very junior positions in medical research ought to be taught the basics of medical research ethics so that populations are not failed by the very people they are turning to for assistance at times of need. This article provides a review of many of the issues of research misconduct and allows the reader to reflect and think through their own experiences of research. This hopefully will allow individuals to start asking questions on, what is an often, a poorly discussed topic in medical research.

"The world's got everything in it
It's got news right up to the minute
It's got truth and lies
And the dumb and the wise
It's got a hide and you can skin it

The world's got everything in it
It took a lightning bolt to begin it
It's got big backyards,
And the Marquis De Sade
it's got variety without limit.

Simple Minded wrote: Aborting a baby is an insult to God?

Parodite wrote:Alex,

.......I don't see any way out of this apart from various crapologies, like the one you mention where it is explained that being confronted with evil and able to distinguish between good and bad, we can choose freely to do what's right. From the God's perspective this is of course perverse; a Father who doesn't stop his kids with force when they start to kill each other just so "that they learn and do good out of free will". .....

manolo wrote:

Simple Minded wrote: Aborting a baby is an insult to God?

SM,

Your question is handily applicable to Christians, Muslims and whoever else has a set of tablets or holy scriptures to breath fire over.

Folks,

A fair helping of moral relativism on this thread, which makes for a gentle read, but it is more fun having a fire breather to duel with. Maybe there will be someone in the other place to oblige?

Alex.

Simple Minded wrote:
Pretty sure the good book says that God is keeping score and will give each their due...... eventually.

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Francis is correct is on focusing on the adults. God has full control of the unborn, and undoubtedly takes care of them even though theology has no detailed explanation. Abortion is a reenactment of the crucifixion of Jesus and proof that the law can still murder the completely innocent.

There is a unholy attitude among many people that God is not in control and they try to build up horror and anger around abortion, which are certainly not Christian attitudes. They feel mankind must establish political control, which is also anti-Christian.

Only unconditional love and acceptance can address this crime. The law is no solution, and Francis recognizes that.

Hearts must be changed, not statutes.

Parodite wrote:a Father who doesn't stop his kids with force when they start to kill each other just so "that they learn and do good out of free will". .....

Simple Minded wrote:I think that is why the discussion will never end. Who gets to determine evil? In a universe with an omnipotent God, would not everything that happens be the will of God?

Including AGW? Someone needs to tell the Pope, God ain't on his side on this one.

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Francis is correct is on focusing on the adults. God has full control of the unborn, and undoubtedly takes care of them even though theology has no detailed explanation. Abortion is a reenactment of the crucifixion of Jesus and proof that the law can still murder the completely innocent.

There is a unholy attitude among many people that God is not in control and they try to build up horror and anger around abortion, which are certainly not Christian attitudes. They feel mankind must establish political control, which is also anti-Christian.

Only unconditional love and acceptance can address this crime. The law is no solution, and Francis recognizes that.

Hearts must be changed, not statutes.

kmich wrote:As Ivan observed in the Brothers Karamozov, “I think if the devil exists, man has created him in his own image and likeness…” Evil is nothing but our own construct, and, depending on your particular frame, what one considers good another can consider evil and vice verse.

Yes, Alex, there is evil in the world, evil arises from all our efforts to rid the world of it – and ultimately to rid ourselves of our own inner demons that we project onto others.

kmich wrote:As Ivan observed in the Brothers Karamozov, “I think if the devil exists, man has created him in his own image and likeness…” Evil is nothing but our own construct, and, depending on your particular frame, what one considers good another can consider evil and vice verse.

Yes, Alex, there is evil in the world, evil arises from all our efforts to rid the world of it – and ultimately to rid ourselves of our own inner demons that we project onto others.

manolo wrote:

kmich wrote:As Ivan observed in the Brothers Karamozov, “I think if the devil exists, man has created him in his own image and likeness…” Evil is nothing but our own construct, and, depending on your particular frame, what one considers good another can consider evil and vice verse.

Yes, Alex, there is evil in the world, evil arises from all our efforts to rid the world of it – and ultimately to rid ourselves of our own inner demons that we project onto others.

kmich,

I'll agree with you on the projection and the ridding. However, an attempt to overcome 'inner demons' is not wasted, even if it does result in long periods of zen meditation or even some praying. Immanuel Kant thought, wisely, that morality lies in our effort to overcome damaging inclinations.

Alex.