Freedom and controlling ideologies

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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Parodite » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:30 pm

All seems to indicate that ideologies, -isms are loosing their credibility. They are limited, they expire, need updates or upgrades etc. The mess in the GOP can be a firtile mess.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:49 pm

Parodite wrote:All seems to indicate that ideologies, -isms are loosing their credibility. They are limited, they expire, need updates or upgrades etc. The mess in the GOP can be a firtile mess.


All religions start as heresies and end as superstitions.

Even the seemingly immortal gods survive only as long as needed by mortal man.

Why would we expect political fashions to be any different?
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:01 am

manolo wrote:noddy,

Lovely. :) You deny that a public road system brings us freedom to travel. It is a beautiful reductio ad absurdum that there could be a freedom to not have roads, and it is true. It would be a kind of freedom that maybe some libertarians dream of.

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That guy probably belongs to the labor party.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby kmich » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:47 pm

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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Doc » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:06 am

I just added this to my reading list.

http://manipulism.com

Introduction

The most illusive notion known to the modern age is that altruistic egalitarian ideals of the left-wing—known as Marxism—are perceived as ideologies. Social-liberalism, which is the first step toward socialism with the intent to achieve communism, merely defines the severity of inferiority complex: the extremely tiny gap between pathological narcissism and its more extreme form known as narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).

Growing up in a collective society, one is coerced, and virtually left with all but one choice. As a former socialist, finally liberated, who was born and raised in Denmark—supposedly the happiest nation on earth—I have devoted my life to alerting the world about the subliminal secrets of collectivism. How can anyone truly fight anything if one is not 100 percent aware and able to describe exactly what one is fighting?

My intention in this book is to prove that one single voice, with the right words, can have the roar of a million and can influence the world by creating a precise understanding of democratic socialism—or to be more precise and use the latest terminology, “universal welfare society.” Thus, the more appropriate terminology to describe Marxism’s democratic passive-aggressive approach—rather than the usual obvious and complete fascist military takeover—would be “ambient socialism.” Thereby, simply with the weapon of irrefutable knowledge, Marxism can be immobilized. Quite simply, exposure will cause sudden awareness, and socialism, democratically, is less likely achieved once its awful emotional mind game has become common household knowledge. This book, therefore, is dedicated to freedom and the earth’s greatest individualistic culture, the United States of America.

This exposure, based almost entirely on social science, is so controversial and comprehensively detailed that Denmark’s perceived right-wing newspaper—ironically the same newspaper that caused the Muhammad cartoons controversy in 2005 in the name of freedom of speech—will not review my book. This explicative psychological index (e.g., collectivist traits, indoctrination methods, intimidation techniques, and ways of passive coercion) is meant as a gift from me to the reader for self-empowerment through social observations, as well as a subconscious journey for the readers themselves. Please share this knowledge with friends and support my effort to alert the world.

The intimidations (threats, lies, and deceptions) in attempt to discredit me and deny this book’s honesty and preciseness are all worth my while. Regardless, this book will raise questions and effect societal changes, and the outcome will speak for itself. Wars should be fought with words—the right words—and never through coercion or terror. Welcome to my words of revolution.

“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.” —Albert Einstein
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Parodite » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:00 pm

Excessive fear for marxism, socialism, social democracy even...could also have roots in Social Anxiety Disorder. ;)
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:14 pm

Doc wrote:I just added this to my reading list.

http://manipulism.com

Introduction

The most illusive notion known to the modern age is that altruistic egalitarian ideals of the left-wing—known as Marxism—are perceived as ideologies. Social-liberalism, which is the first step toward socialism with the intent to achieve communism, merely defines the severity of inferiority complex: the extremely tiny gap between pathological narcissism and its more extreme form known as narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).

Growing up in a collective society, one is coerced, and virtually left with all but one choice. As a former socialist, finally liberated, who was born and raised in Denmark—supposedly the happiest nation on earth—I have devoted my life to alerting the world about the subliminal secrets of collectivism. How can anyone truly fight anything if one is not 100 percent aware and able to describe exactly what one is fighting?

My intention in this book is to prove that one single voice, with the right words, can have the roar of a million and can influence the world by creating a precise understanding of democratic socialism—or to be more precise and use the latest terminology, “universal welfare society.” Thus, the more appropriate terminology to describe Marxism’s democratic passive-aggressive approach—rather than the usual obvious and complete fascist military takeover—would be “ambient socialism.” Thereby, simply with the weapon of irrefutable knowledge, Marxism can be immobilized. Quite simply, exposure will cause sudden awareness, and socialism, democratically, is less likely achieved once its awful emotional mind game has become common household knowledge. This book, therefore, is dedicated to freedom and the earth’s greatest individualistic culture, the United States of America.

This exposure, based almost entirely on social science, is so controversial and comprehensively detailed that Denmark’s perceived right-wing newspaper—ironically the same newspaper that caused the Muhammad cartoons controversy in 2005 in the name of freedom of speech—will not review my book. This explicative psychological index (e.g., collectivist traits, indoctrination methods, intimidation techniques, and ways of passive coercion) is meant as a gift from me to the reader for self-empowerment through social observations, as well as a subconscious journey for the readers themselves. Please share this knowledge with friends and support my effort to alert the world.

The intimidations (threats, lies, and deceptions) in attempt to discredit me and deny this book’s honesty and preciseness are all worth my while. Regardless, this book will raise questions and effect societal changes, and the outcome will speak for itself. Wars should be fought with words—the right words—and never through coercion or terror. Welcome to my words of revolution.

“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.” —Albert Einstein


sounds a lot like the Tyranny of Nice: http://www.amazon.com/The-Tyranny-Nice- ... 0978049012

I'll bet the book is full of micro-aggressions....

The author looks HOT!
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:23 pm

Parodite wrote:Excessive fear for marxism, socialism, social democracy even...could also have roots in Social Anxiety Disorder. ;)


Outstanding!! Thanks for posting Parodite. :D

"Social anxiety disorder (SAD), also known as social phobia, is an anxiety disorder characterised by an intense fear in one or more social situations causing considerable distress and impaired ability to function in at least some parts of daily life.[1]:15 These fears can be triggered by perceived or actual scrutiny from others. It is the most common anxiety disorder and one of the most common psychiatric disorders, with 12% of American adults having experienced it."


We no longer fear being watched by Big Brother or God, but being watched billions of little brothers & sisters. Reminds me of the old quote "Some fear God, some fear the police." Now we all (the hipsters) fear being tried and convicted in cyberspace.

Indifference seems the only cure. noddy for Pope/POTUS. :P

Smart phone cameras = eye in the sky = ED = failure to reproduce = less people = more lebensraum = less AGW..... brilliant.

Needless to say, SAD not only affects those who observe Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, etc. and choose to fear Marx. But also those who observe practicing religious types and choose to fear God, Allah, Yahweh, etc.

Or maybe in all cases it is just a fear of the "other."

You do know who controls Wiki, right? ;)
Last edited by Simple Minded on Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:33 pm

Doc wrote:I just added this to my reading list.

http://manipulism.com

Introduction

The most illusive notion known to the modern age is that altruistic egalitarian ideals of the left-wing—known as Marxism—are perceived as ideologies. Social-liberalism, which is the first step toward socialism with the intent to achieve communism, merely defines the severity of inferiority complex: the extremely tiny gap between pathological narcissism and its more extreme form known as narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).

Growing up in a collective society, one is coerced, and virtually left with all but one choice. As a former socialist, finally liberated, who was born and raised in Denmark—supposedly the happiest nation on earth—I have devoted my life to alerting the world about the subliminal secrets of collectivism. How can anyone truly fight anything if one is not 100 percent aware and able to describe exactly what one is fighting?

My intention in this book is to prove that one single voice, with the right words, can have the roar of a million and can influence the world by creating a precise understanding of democratic socialism—or to be more precise and use the latest terminology, “universal welfare society.” Thus, the more appropriate terminology to describe Marxism’s democratic passive-aggressive approach—rather than the usual obvious and complete fascist military takeover—would be “ambient socialism.” Thereby, simply with the weapon of irrefutable knowledge, Marxism can be immobilized. Quite simply, exposure will cause sudden awareness, and socialism, democratically, is less likely achieved once its awful emotional mind game has become common household knowledge. This book, therefore, is dedicated to freedom and the earth’s greatest individualistic culture, the United States of America.

This exposure, based almost entirely on social science, is so controversial and comprehensively detailed that Denmark’s perceived right-wing newspaper—ironically the same newspaper that caused the Muhammad cartoons controversy in 2005 in the name of freedom of speech—will not review my book. This explicative psychological index (e.g., collectivist traits, indoctrination methods, intimidation techniques, and ways of passive coercion) is meant as a gift from me to the reader for self-empowerment through social observations, as well as a subconscious journey for the readers themselves. Please share this knowledge with friends and support my effort to alert the world.

The intimidations (threats, lies, and deceptions) in attempt to discredit me and deny this book’s honesty and preciseness are all worth my while. Regardless, this book will raise questions and effect societal changes, and the outcome will speak for itself. Wars should be fought with words—the right words—and never through coercion or terror. Welcome to my words of revolution.

“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.” —Albert Einstein


some of the little brothers and sisters are watching the author: http://www.snopes.com/denmark-socialism-brutal-meme/
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Doc » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:00 pm

Parodite wrote:Excessive fear for marxism, socialism, social democracy even...could also have roots in Social Anxiety Disorder. ;)



Indeed !!! SAD is a fatal condition that killed almost 200,000,000 in the 20th century. People died of anxiety not socialism. We know because Stalin told us so.

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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby noddy » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:00 am

yeh, people who disagree with you have mental problems.

why would they be worried about the consequences of that attitude having power over them i wonder ?

paranoid, obviously.

insert grotesque ironic sarcasm here.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby noddy » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 am

Simple Minded wrote:
Parodite wrote:Excessive fear for marxism, socialism, social democracy even...could also have roots in Social Anxiety Disorder. ;)


Outstanding!! Thanks for posting Parodite. :D

"Social anxiety disorder (SAD), also known as social phobia, is an anxiety disorder characterised by an intense fear in one or more social situations causing considerable distress and impaired ability to function in at least some parts of daily life.[1]:15 These fears can be triggered by perceived or actual scrutiny from others. It is the most common anxiety disorder and one of the most common psychiatric disorders, with 12% of American adults having experienced it."


We no longer fear being watched by Big Brother or God, but being watched billions of little brothers & sisters. Reminds me of the old quote "Some fear God, some fear the police." Now we all (the hipsters) fear being tried and convicted in cyberspace.

Indifference seems the only cure. noddy for Pope/POTUS. :P

Smart phone cameras = eye in the sky = ED = failure to reproduce = less people = more lebensraum = less AGW..... brilliant.

Needless to say, SAD not only affects those who observe Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, etc. and choose to fear Marx. But also those who observe practicing religious types and choose to fear God, Allah, Yahweh, etc.

Or maybe in all cases it is just a fear of the "other."

You do know who controls Wiki, right? ;)


the other day i was reading a blog on how stoicism is making a comeback in the modern world and has growing numbers it hasnt had for centuries.

the nutshell being that in times of chaos and change, with a lack of control in your life the central message of stoicism is that you can learn to control your response and that is about all you can do.

my missus says corsets also take off, women wanting control over their own bodies for simmilar reasons.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Parodite » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:55 pm

Simple Minded wrote:We no longer fear being watched by Big Brother or God, but being watched billions of little brothers & sisters. Reminds me of the old quote "Some fear God, some fear the police." Now we all (the hipsters) fear being tried and convicted in cyberspace.


And add the selfie thing! We are now even chasing our own shadows. I'm pretty sure somebody is following me all day long. The guy in the mirror, the voice in my head. :shock:
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Parodite » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:57 pm

noddy wrote:yeh, people who disagree with you have mental problems.


Of course they do. It's old news.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Doc » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:48 pm

Parodite wrote:
noddy wrote:yeh, people who disagree with you have mental problems.


Of course they do. It's old news.


Indeed. Stalin insisted that it was true as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political ... viet_Union
There was systematic political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union,[1] based on the interpretation of political opposition or dissent as a psychiatric problem.[2] It was called "psychopathological mechanisms" of dissent.[3]

During the leadership of General Secretary Leonid Brezhnev, psychiatry was used to disable and remove from society political opponents ("dissidents") who openly expressed beliefs that contradicted the official dogma.[4][5] The term "philosophical intoxication", for instance, was widely applied to the mental disorders diagnosed when people disagreed with the country's Communist leaders and, by referring to the writings of the Founding Fathers of Marxism–Leninism — Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, and Vladimir Lenin — made them the target of criticism.[6]

Article 58-10 of the Stalin-era Criminal Code, "Anti-Soviet agitation", was to a considerable degree preserved in the new 1958 RSFSR Criminal Code as Article 70 "Anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda". In 1967 a weaker law, Article 190-1 "Dissemination of fabrications known to be false, which defame the Soviet political and social system", was added to the RSFSR Criminal Code. These laws were frequently applied in conjunction with the system of diagnosis for mental illness, developed by Academician Andrei Snezhnevsky. Together they established a framework within which non-standard beliefs could easily be defined as a criminal offence and the basis, subsequently, for a psychiatric diagnosis.[7]
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Parodite » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:12 pm

Doc, I made a tease-winked remark that maybe excessive fear of marxism, socialism, social democracy has roots in SAD. Don't make too much out of it. ;) There may be something to it though. In some cases... as the guy/girl you quoted.

Marxism, as a political ideology is nowhere practiced anymore aside North Korea. And even there the argument can be made that Marx's ideas cannot be held responsible for the crimes that are committed in its name. As an explanatory framework to understand Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, Marxism and Socialism only explain that much: very little. I know no Marxists, some socialists though, i.e. Dutch people who vote for our Socialist Party. They are all decent hard working people who embrace the capitalist engine of the economy but want to tax richer people more and poor people less. They also believe our health care system should not be left to the market; which is a fair discussion. All occurs miles away from the crimes perpetrated by Stalin and Hitler.

People who nonetheless equate Marxism with Stalin's crimes and Hitlers crimes with Socialism... are maybe not suffering SAD but from something else. Not sure what it is, but it seems serious.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:02 pm

noddy wrote:
the other day i was reading a blog on how stoicism is making a comeback in the modern world and has growing numbers it hasnt had for centuries.

the nutshell being that in times of chaos and change, with a lack of control in your life the central message of stoicism is that you can learn to control your response and that is about all you can do.

my missus says corsets also take off, women wanting control over their own bodies for simmilar reasons.


Probably true, it may also be a sign of increasing maturity/practicality. At some point, most realize that life is so short, that trying to "fix" others is not only a waste of time, but counterproductive. While I am fixing them, entropy is attacking every aspect of my life. My internal demons love it when I focus upon the faults of "them."

When she was 16 my niece decide to tell me what my brother was doing wrong as a father. I said "After you fix him, then you can start on your mother. After you fix her, fix your worst teacher, then the rest. Then fix your worst friend, then the rest. Then..." At which point she rolled her eyes and said "Got It!"

That was pre-internet era. Also prior to teen age existential angst extending into one's 30's and 40's.

But, now, with the internet, and instantaneous, ubiquitous communication.... we should be able to fix all of "them." :P
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:06 pm

Parodite wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:We no longer fear being watched by Big Brother or God, but being watched billions of little brothers & sisters. Reminds me of the old quote "Some fear God, some fear the police." Now we all (the hipsters) fear being tried and convicted in cyberspace.


And add the selfie thing! We are now even chasing our own shadows. I'm pretty sure somebody is following me all day long. The guy in the mirror, the voice in my head. :shock:


F**k that guy in your head. He is one of the biggest virtual jerks I know. Can't believe a damn thing he says. :P

"We do not content ourselves with the life we have in ourselves and in our own being; we desire to live an imaginary life in the mind of others, and for this purpose we endeavor to shine. We labor unceasingly to adorn and preserve this imaginary existence and neglect the real. A great proof of the nothingness of our being, not to be satisfied with the one without the other, and to renounce so often the one for the other!"
Blaise Pascal

"Two forces had fought since the world began, and every religion had known of them. There had always been a God and a Devil, only men had been mistaken about the shapes of the Devil, he was not single and big, he was many, and smutty, and small." Ayn Rand

"It is the eyes of other people that ruin us; if all but myself were blind, I would want neither a fine house nor fine furniture."
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:17 pm

Parodite wrote:
Marxism, as a political ideology is nowhere practiced anymore aside North Korea. And even there the argument can be made that Marx's ideas cannot be held responsible for the crimes that are committed in its name. As an explanatory framework to understand Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, Marxism and Socialism only explain that much: very little. I know no Marxists, some socialists though, i.e. Dutch people who vote for our Socialist Party. They are all decent hard working people who embrace the capitalist engine of the economy but want to tax richer people more and poor people less. They also believe our health care system should not be left to the market; which is a fair discussion. All occurs miles away from the crimes perpetrated by Stalin and Hitler.

People who nonetheless equate Marxism with Stalin's crimes and Hitlers crimes with Socialism... are maybe not suffering SAD but from something else. Not sure what it is, but it seems serious.


The self-professed Lefties (both Americans and non-Americans) I have had the pleasure of spending large amounts of time with, all remind me of the old quote about Christianity. "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."

Easy to profess, but finding a lefty who practices what they preach (voluntarily giving away their excess wealth until they are at the mean level) is as rare as finding a Christian who will give you his cloak as well when you ask him for his coat.

Are "good Marxists" as rare as "good Christians," or more so?

As long as the standard of "pure" remains "Someone else should always do more....."
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:39 pm

Marxism got a lot right. Thesis - antithesis - synthesis is a decent improvement over Hume. Marx also did a good job of outlining the problems of capitalism unfettered by righteousness.

The big problem seem to be a misreading of 'To each according to his needs; from each according to his abilities' into 'To each according to his desires; from each according to his achievements'. I don't think Marx anticipated people buying Coca-Cola and blunt wrappers with EBT cards.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby manolo » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:46 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Marxism got a lot right. Thesis - antithesis - synthesis is a decent improvement over Hume. Marx also did a good job of outlining the problems of capitalism unfettered by righteousness.

The big problem seem to be a misreading of 'To each according to his needs; from each according to his abilities' into 'To each according to his desires; from each according to his achievements'. I don't think Marx anticipated people buying Coca-Cola and blunt wrappers with EBT cards.


Nonc,

Agreed. Dr Marx came up with a good diagnosis but the wrong prescription.

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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:06 pm

manolo wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:Marxism got a lot right. Thesis - antithesis - synthesis is a decent improvement over Hume. Marx also did a good job of outlining the problems of capitalism unfettered by righteousness.

The big problem seem to be a misreading of 'To each according to his needs; from each according to his abilities' into 'To each according to his desires; from each according to his achievements'. I don't think Marx anticipated people buying Coca-Cola and blunt wrappers with EBT cards.


Nonc,

Agreed. Dr Marx came up with a good diagnosis but the wrong prescription.

Alex.


Where are the true Christians and true Marxists? Why do people profess what they are not willing to practice?
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby noddy » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:25 am

humans dont like freedom, they like order.

freedom is just a gibberish word with a billion personal meanings and emotional responses and no actual methods to quantify it.

----


if you look at our analysis of historical leaders its always about qualities, such as meritocracy, application of law, treatment of citizens, trade accumen etc

marx reduced all that to politics of pettyness and blaming the tool (money) for the bad workmanship (poor leadership) - you could accuse him of being responsible for themodern intellectual log jam on capitalist/communist that distracts from the qualities above and many more besides.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:37 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Marxism got a lot right. Thesis - antithesis - synthesis is a decent improvement over Hume. Marx also did a good job of outlining the problems of capitalism unfettered by righteousness.

The big problem seem to be a misreading of 'To each according to his needs; from each according to his abilities' into 'To each according to his desires; from each according to his achievements'. I don't think Marx anticipated people buying Coca-Cola and blunt wrappers with EBT cards.


Nonc,

Your post may suggest the best definitions of right and left yet offered on OTNOT. A Rightie views Jesus Christ as savior, while a Leftie views Karl Marx as savior. That would fit in well with my observation of my self-proclaimed Leftist friends that Leftism is religion for atheists.

The profession of "selfless" as superior, with actual practice being unattainable at the ideal level, and undesirable at the levels that others would wish one to perform.

As soon as Everyone else is virtuous, I can practice what I preach:

Xi went to Guangxi and spoke with the governor about the fine people of China.
The governor: Fine people...I don't know.
Xi: I will show you. Hey you! Come here! What do you do?
Farmer: I'm a farmer.

Xi: Let me ask you, if you had two houses, would you give one to the government?
Without hesitation the farmer says yes.. Xi turns to the governor who isn't convinced.

Xi asks: if you had two cars, would you give one to the government? Immediate yes from the farmer.

The governor asks if he may asks a question and Xi says, of course.
Governor: if you had two cows, would you give one to the government.
Farmer: No. Never. Please don't ask.

Xi is confused: But you'd give a house and car, why not a cow?
Farmer: I actually have two cows.

.
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Re: Freedom and controlling ideologies

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:55 am

noddy wrote:
marx reduced all that to politics of pettyness and blaming the tool (money) for the bad workmanship (poor leadership).....


Very analogous to the issue of gun control in the US, once one no longer views adults as responsible, restricting access to inanimate objects seems necessary.

That is one of the big bitches with capitalism, that lefties have. Voluntary business transactions mean Jenna Jamerson has a higher income than Mother Teresa.

Reality hurts the opinion we have of what wonderful creatures we are.
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