The metaphysics of Trump

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:06 pm

Folks,

What if Mr Trump is a Demon?

The evil one speaks to us in many ways. He twists lies with truth and the attack is powerful and psychological. It will have escaped no one that Mr Trump works with just these methods. His weapons are undermining, disturbance and chaos. Mephistopheles has often been called 'The Lord of misrule' and for good reason.

For the evil one to inflict maximum damage in the mortal world he will seek to subvert the minds of the good and the weak, and where better to start than with believers? To win the believers to evil ways would be the great victory for Satan. None could offer better riches and rewards for the underworld.

It is not possible for us to know whether Mr Trump is Beelzebub, Astaroth, Lucifer or Leviathan, or maybe a lesser demon. He certainly embodies and demonstrates the deadly sin of pride and his constant vulgarities allude to the 'Lord of the Flies'. The fact that this ugliness and vulgarity is overlooked by his followers might evidence the power of the bewitcher. They cannot see what confronts them.

“Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart.” Eephesians 4:18

If my suspicion is true, it will take a powerful and constant soul, pure in heart, to defeat Trump. I don't know whether Hillary has all that is needed but it is beginning to look like she has been ordained in this existential battle on the face of the earth. Of course Trump may be nothing but a mere mortal, but if he is what I suspect then Hillary is facing the fight of her life and the stakes are high. In the latter case the Lord of hosts will be standing beside her, and we should pray with all the humility we can muster for the victory of the eternal good against earthly evil.

What more can we do? The die is cast and events will unfold, God willing.

Alex.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Simple Minded » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:01 am

:lol: alex, your best post yet! Tip for the future, never eat brownies made by college kids.....

strange how in just a few sentences, one suddenly understands the wisdom of UK gun law, and that the ban against Muslim immigrants and against people from the UK doesn't seem so nuts..... ;)

Now I know why my Brit buddies lambast UK health care...... head for the Chunnel Bro!

How much is the Donald paying you?

maybe it is as simple as living in NYC and breathing in high levels of carbon monoxide for decades..... :)
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Parodite » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:53 am

:D Well, let me add my few cents. And connect some dots from apparently very different domains; quantum mechanics and the Trump situation.

As Typhoon noted, we live in a quantum world. In a nutshell this means that we cannot say definate things about momentum and location at the same time. That there is a fundamental uncertainty also about the state of some-something before it is measured or observed. We live in a world of incomplete information. Where do the probabilistic rules of quantum mechanics come from? Where is the deterministic equation that governs the probabilistic wave function? We are left, in the quantum world and for now, with probability before and probability after. The only certainty we have is that between past and future something happened.

Now Trump. To understand him we need to go truly quantum. I suspect he is in a perfect superposition and doesn't decohere, i.e. in his case the wave function does not collapse. He is honest that he doesn't know much. He makes big claims about the future, but that is beside the point.

He wants to understand what is happening with Islam, terrorism as he doesn't get it. He doesn't want to say in advance what he will do as with ISIS because you don't tell your enemies if, how and when you want to attack them.

He wants to make America great again... but nobody knows how. Neither does he, but that is not important; he wants to reconfigure the laboratory to enable a new experiment where all quantum bets are off. He merely wants to change the direction the U.S. is heading, and everything is good as long as it is a different path. Drop a random bomb and see what happens.

With Trump all is uncertainty and loads of maybe's. So many new possibilities awaken in his wild manouverings it is hard to keep up with them. Let alone do the calc - it is impossible. As he makes everybody remember all the time: the pundits were all so wrong about him. He wouldn't stand a chance for POTUS... yet here he is, ready and close to face off HRC. And who knows... imagine that to happen. President Trump.

The unpredictable chain of events that seem to come with Donald go-Quantum Trump scares people. And to compare him with Hitler or a Demon won't stop him. It only makes him more popular and powerful. Hillary Clinton, who has the appearance of a bewitched Priestess... makes him look a jolly good fellow from the local golf club.

I'm afraid Trump will beat her. Not sure if that would be good or bad though. Such is the quantum world we live in. You never know.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:38 pm

SM,

Thanks, I enjoyed writing it after a bottle of good French wine (there is such a thing).

Parodite,

It seems we have encapsulated Trumpism in some depth from both the metaphysical and physical perspectives. Of course both are philosophical reductions.

There is the moral perspective. As an old fashioned Kantian moralist I am hoping and expecting folks to wake up and choose a safe pair of hands. It didn't happen with Hitler, or at least not until too late. I remember that Ludendorff said in 1937 "..this evil man will plunge our Reich into the abyss." It was already too late. The GOP old school are looking on Trump with similar horror, but I don't think for a moment he is a Hitler. Neither the focus nor the intent is there. This indicates to me a lesser demon. :twisted: ;)

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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Simple Minded » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:02 pm

Alex,

You are more than welcome. Leave to a non-American to raise POTUS and potential POTUS worship/fear to an even higher form of art/religion and deity cult status than currently exists. I wish you could have been in America in 2007-2008, even the pope was jealous.

Oddly, you don't see Hilary, or the current Obama as being as evil as many former Obama supporters or Hilary supporters see them. Various perspectives are truly personal and infinite. 7 billion blind men describing the virtual elephant.

"John Paul Sartre made the point that two people climbing a mountain side by side are not climbing the same mountain." Also true that two people voting for the same candidate don't see the same candidate.

It will be a very interesting election if the dems coronate Hilary, and even more interesting if the repubs nominate Trump.

If Obama was supposedly the cure for Bushism, why is Trump viewed by many as the cure for Obamism?

food for thought: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=si ... +and+obama
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:22 pm

Simple Minded wrote:Alex,

You are more than welcome. Leave to a non-American to raise POTUS and potential POTUS worship/fear to an even higher form of art/religion and deity cult status than currently exists. I wish you could have been in America in 2007-2008, even the pope was jealous.

Oddly, you don't see Hilary, or the current Obama as being as evil as many former Obama supporters see them. Various perspectives are truly personal and infinite. 7 billion blind men describing the virtual elephant.

It will be a very interesting election if the dems coronate Hilary, and even more interesting if the repubs nominate Trump.

If Obama was supposedly the cure for Bushism, why is Trump viewed by many as the cure for Obamism?

food for thought: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=si ... +and+obama


SM,

I'll try to take your points one at a time.

Obama's campaigns were pretty scary, and IMHO the worst (but necessary) part of his political career. The promises were obviously overblown and the red/blue stuff plain false. However, he has been a safe pair of hands and I see his Gallup poll today for approval/disapproval is 48/48. That's not bad.

Agreed on the Trump/Hillary. Either win would be an increase in tensions in an already divided nation. My guess is that Trump won't be the nominee and Hillary will have a very tough fight with someone else. History points to a change of colour in the White House after 8 yrs of a Dem president.

I think the Americans do like a cure and silver bullet cure especially. Trump knows this and is playing it. Also he will have learned a lot from the previously mentioned Obama campaigns.

From over the pond, I find your politics fascinating. Ours are comparatively dull and frankly the wit and repartee on this website is of a good standard. I particularly like the way some of us are able to shadow box around our personal political inclinations. It's humorous and enjoyable. Here at Chez manolo, TV fare is liberally sprinkled with Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Trevor Noah and Bill Maher. I've even looked at Fox News a few times. :) US politics is the biggest show on our flat screen. :D

Cheers,

Alex.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby noddy » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:08 am

the meta of trump is easy, annoy the wet left - you should find that easy ethinker, seeing as your meta is to annoy conservatives.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Parodite » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:59 pm

manolo wrote:SM,

Thanks, I enjoyed writing it after a bottle of good French wine (there is such a thing).

Parodite,

It seems we have encapsulated Trumpism in some depth from both the metaphysical and physical perspectives. Of course both are philosophical reductions.

There is the moral perspective. As an old fashioned Kantian moralist I am hoping and expecting folks to wake up and choose a safe pair of hands. It didn't happen with Hitler, or at least not until too late. I remember that Ludendorff said in 1937 "..this evil man will plunge our Reich into the abyss." It was already too late. The GOP old school are looking on Trump with similar horror, but I don't think for a moment he is a Hitler. Neither the focus nor the intent is there. This indicates to me a lesser demon. :twisted: ;)

Alex.


Well, Trumpy... what can he really do as a POTUS. It will be a shock for him to find that now he can do what he wants, say what he wants as an independent billionaire contender...but ending up in the position of a POTUS will be the exact opposite. A puppet on strings.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:52 pm

What can Trump do? The primary job of the President is to be the paymaster and award contracts. I assume he would use this authority to bargain for congressional votes.

The plum sheet appointments - ambassadors, department heads etc. - are a mystery. Trump has no real party, so anybody qualified would have a political history and anti-Trump allegiances. It's like when St. Peter threatened to sue Satan. Satan replied, "Hah! And where would you find a lawyer!?".
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:09 am

Parodite wrote:Well, Trumpy... what can he really do as a POTUS. It will be a shock for him to find that now he can do what he wants, say what he wants as an independent billionaire contender...but ending up in the position of a POTUS will be the exact opposite. A puppet on strings.


Parodite,

You're not wrong. POTUS is quite a circumscribed position in many ways. Some pundits have been suggesting that he will be glad to drop out before the White House gates close behind him.

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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby kmich » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:55 pm

Trump embodies the process of triviality masquerading as novelty. Considering the vacuous, numbingly predictable nature of our political and media culture, aping something new and improved is relatively easy, even if that personality is no more interesting and original than an internet troll or another episode of “Keeping up with the Kardashians.”

Toto will soon or later pull away the curtain to expose the vacant little man behind the curtain, and people will get bored and change the channel. The segment of the electorate who has supported him will go channel surfing to find another blowhard to vent their grievances and insecurities for another brief interlude in their weary, confused lives.

Nothing will change, de Tocqueville’s “habits of the heart” of the 19th century that promote responsible citizenship are no longer adequately available to prevent our ongoing regression into the “soft despotism” he warned against.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby noddy » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:56 am

is trump really a new thing?

i thought he was more of a blast from the past - you dont have to go back very far in western political speech to find highly nationalist anti foreigner speeches.


interesting times.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:20 am

noddy wrote:is trump really a new thing?

i thought he was more of a blast from the past - you dont have to go back very far in western political speech to find highly nationalist anti foreigner speeches.


interesting times.


nod,

Trump has been complaining that he can't use hairspray because of CFCs. Very 80s. :)

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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Simple Minded » Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:07 am

noddy wrote:is trump really a new thing?

i thought he was more of a blast from the past - you dont have to go back very far in western political speech to find highly nationalist anti foreigner speeches.


interesting times.


Trump is not at all new. All candidates claim to possess more MOJO than the other candidates. Details are never offered.

True Believers want deities and overlords, not administrators or stewards.

Previously posted by Typhoon I believe:

https://reason.com/archives/2015/12/25/ ... n-dictator
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby kmich » Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:12 am

It is a mistake to underestimate the danger of triviality.

Social, political, and religious triviality largely arise from the same, two processes. The first is the attempt to repeat an often mythical past and to keep the challenges of the present at bay. The other is to ignore the past to create possibilities in a utopian future while dismissing the troublesome stresses of historical contexts and the hard won wisdoms of tradition.

Intrinsic power of any human, social movement is derived from holding the tension between the past, present challenges, and future, unrealized possibilities in dynamic tension. Both processes above, reactionary and utopian, seek to extinguish the tensions of history, time, and revelation for the sake of personal ambitions and collective narcissism.

Without intrinsic power gained from the dynamics of change and possibilities, the only way such hollow movements can gain any power is through the rank parody of a spirited novelty. The use of lies, manipulation, force, and ultimately tyranny is required to derive any presentation of vitality. That is what makes triviality so dangerous, and such perilous triviality stalks the politics of America and Europe. Trump is only one, likely temporary, symptom of these precarious developments.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby noddy » Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:43 am

modernity lied.

they are not living forever in a life of leisure, scooting around in flying cars but instead they are working 2 jobs for half pay and have increasing amounts of competition for fewer jobs and increased taxes to pay for cow farts and other absurdities - they feel like strangers in their own countries.

stuck in a hollow parody of freedom, zero choices except wage slavery or prison.

the allegedly intelligent, allegedly left wing hipsters sneer and laugh at them for being scared of immigrants and scared of change, they have jokes about how stupid you would have to be in competition with a rural yokel from another country, oh how they laugh at their own wit.

replaced by a robot, you must be a retard!

trump is quite moderate, all things considered, im expecting far worse.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby kmich » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:45 pm

noddy wrote:modernity lied.

they are not living forever in a life of leisure, scooting around in flying cars but instead they are working 2 jobs for half pay and have increasing amounts of competition for fewer jobs and increased taxes to pay for cow farts and other absurdities - they feel like strangers in their own countries.

stuck in a hollow parody of freedom, zero choices except wage slavery or prison.

the allegedly intelligent, allegedly left wing hipsters sneer and laugh at them for being scared of immigrants and scared of change, they have jokes about how stupid you would have to be in competition with a rural yokel from another country, oh how they laugh at their own wit.

replaced by a robot, you must be a retard!

trump is quite moderate, all things considered, im expecting far worse.

Well, yes, "modernity," whatever that means for the moment, has been just another vacuous idea we have bought into.

The brief rant against the "left wing hipsters" seems necessary in terms of an energetic self indulgence but unrelated to any of our real, present challenges. Trump being a "moderate" I suppose depend upon where one political views are positioned. Both the "left" with its trivialization of justice and the "right" with its meaningless parody of "tradition" have an equal stake in the ongoing decadence of our political life.

About flying cars and cow farts I have nothing to add, but I am handicapped as being only a simple person. ;)
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:57 pm

kmich wrote: I am handicapped as being only a simple person. ;)


kmich,

There are many of us chasing that rainbow on this forum. :)

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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:05 am

kmich wrote:
Well, yes, "modernity," whatever that means for the moment, has been just another vacuous idea we have bought into.



kmich,

I think you may have (I assume, inadvertently) posted one of the greatest philosophical sentences of all time.

And simultaneously summarized humanity far better than most. I enviously salute you!!!

People who buy into vacuous ideas, whatever that means for the moment, do seem to be pretty messed up. At least based on my personal experience.

How to market the cure.......
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:00 am

Simple Minded wrote:
How to market the cure.......


SM,

Now there is an Americanism. :D

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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby kmich » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:59 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
kmich wrote:
Well, yes, "modernity," whatever that means for the moment, has been just another vacuous idea we have bought into.



kmich,

I think you may have (I assume, inadvertently) posted one of the greatest philosophical sentences of all time.

And simultaneously summarized humanity far better than most. I enviously salute you!!!

Why, thank you, SM...

Simple Minded wrote:People who buy into vacuous ideas, whatever that means for the moment, do seem to be pretty messed up. At least based on my personal experience.
How to market the cure.......

The market is a tool, a mechanism. It is dependent upon the leadership of our institutions, public and private, that cannot be made credible simply because it is employed by them. The "market" as a force of independent agency or even a deus ex machina for our contemporary decadence is just another vacuous idea that even Smith and Ricardo would have certainly raise an eyebrow at.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:47 pm

kmich wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:People who buy into vacuous ideas, whatever that means for the moment, do seem to be pretty messed up. At least based on my personal experience.
How to market the cure.......


The market is a tool, a mechanism. It is dependent upon the leadership of our institutions, public and private, that cannot be made credible simply because it is employed by them. The "market" as a force of independent agency or even a deus ex machina for our contemporary decadence is just another vacuous idea that even Smith and Ricardo would have certainly raise an eyebrow at.


I agree with your first sentence.

The market is also simply popular opinion ("Madonna was a great talent because she sold a lot of music, and mostly importantly of all, my friends liked her"), and many of our "leaders" are not actual leaders, but simply those who are good at recognizing parades that are forming and at sprinting to the front of the parade in order to "lead" it. They have talents that are much like those who are able to spot fashion/investment/philosophical trends in the very early stages.

Some leaders are genuine, and others are simply indicators of zeitgeist.

IMSMO, that is why so many "leaders" (and popular ideas) come and go similarly to other fashions.

I suspect that many who are dissatisfied with "modern" life would have been equally discontent in the past, and that their currently held ideal of the past never existed.

Then there are others like myself, who recognize that my dinosaurian thinking is no longer chic, and that, that is simply the way of life.

New men (or ideas) pushing the old out of the way like waves on the ocean.
the good news: there appears to be about 320 million different opinions about America is.
the bad news: except for mine, they're all wrong.

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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby manolo » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:18 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
Some leaders are genuine, and others are simply indicators of zeitgeist.



SM,

A perfect summation of Obama v Trump. :)

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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:24 am

manolo wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Some leaders are genuine, and others are simply indicators of zeitgeist.



SM,

A perfect summation of Obama v Trump. :)

Alex.


I was thinking both were the latter. Check out the latest on Trump. Democrats are going for him big time, Repub is starting to accept him (as Nonc says, negotiation) starting to warm to him.

I used to think he was an employee of Hilary's. Now I am leaning towards a modern P.T. Barnum.

I don't think Hilary will make it to November, Bernie, Joe, or Al might be the sub.
the good news: there appears to be about 320 million different opinions about America is.
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Re: The metaphysics of Trump

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:21 am

People invested in the establishment hate Donald Trump. People who hate the establishment are investing in Trump. Everything else is a light show.
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