Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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noddy
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Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by noddy »

http://www.dawn.com/news/1280325/the-ro ... radicalism
In 1919, when the already depleted Ottoman regime in Turkey was defeated by a British-led alliance during the First World War, the ulema of India who till then had largely remained stationed in their mosques and madressahs poured out to agitate against the possible dismantling of the Ottoman Empire.
One of its leading members, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, a dispassionate but astute lawyer, advised the League to stay out of the movement. In a letter to INC’s revered figurehead, Mahatma Gandhi, Jinnah wrote that the movement was bound to stir up untapped religious passions of the masses and would be a disaster to the fate of the Hindus and Muslims of India.

Gandhi disagreed. In November 1919, after being approached by some leading members of the Khilafat Committee, he decided to make the INC part of the movement. Both Mubarak Ali and Sayeed maintain that Gandhi did this to bolster the anti-British movement that he was already planning to launch.

On the other hand, a senior member of the Muslim League, Dr Ansari felt that the League was being sidelined and overwhelmed by the rising religious passions of the movement (which also became apparent within the party’s main Muslim urban middle-class constituency). He headed a special party convention in Delhi and invited a group of ulema to the session. This created a rift within the League. Jinnah’s group opposed the movement along with Gandhi’s ‘non-cooperation movement’. It was taking place in concert with the Khilafat Movement.

Jinnah insisted that the result of both the movements would be disastrous and chaotic. INC leader Jawaharlal Nehru later wrote that Jinnah saw the commotion (created by the Khilafat and non-cooperation movements) as ‘mob hysteria.’
Jinnah’s caution and position were vindicated. But the tradition of politics done on the impulse and emotion of the mindless mob had been established in the region.
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Simple Minded

Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by Simple Minded »

Very interesting noddy. Thanks for posting.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Reminds me of the famous Richard Grenier article, The Gandhi Nobody Knows

Gandhi was another complicated man with a mixed legacy- like a lot of great men in history- who, for convenience sake (and callousness to, you know, other peoples), western minds have made a spiritual-political icon to promote leftist beliefs and attitudes.
Simple Minded

Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Reminds me of the famous Richard Grenier article, The Gandhi Nobody Knows

Gandhi was another complicated man with a mixed legacy- like a lot of great men in history- who, for convenience sake (and callousness to, you know, other peoples), western minds have made a spiritual-political icon to promote leftist beliefs and attitudes.
Well said. Reality is always more complex than the black & white narratives used to construct icons.
noddy
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Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by noddy »

its nice to get a more rounded picture instead of the comical caricature.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

eh, is it changing anybody's mind in general?

From my p.o.v, people in my social vicinity have moved on from throwing Gandhi around- I don't hear him quoted in sanctimonious rants by leftist friends as much as he was hoisted on us as kids by our teachers and that particular adult generation; say the people who would've been teenagers at through the sixties and seventies and associated India with cool and genuine because of all the hip rock stars that picked up whacky faux-Indian philosophies.

I wonder if the development of nukes by India-Pakistan soured the bonhomie people used to have for Gandhi as a cypher/caricature of the wise, profound Indian. [As opposed to his wise Injun- who wasn't as profound but was earthy and wanted to take care of the planet one single tear shed at a time. There was also a whole generation who grew up watching their favorite, hip rock stars adopt whacky, faux-Indian philosophies to signal how deep they were- George Harrison's apparent seriousness about it all being the exception. Not a whole lot of chatter about gurus and babas.

...also a slight change in supporting third-world nationalist strongman types closer aligned to the USSR than the USA. At one point you could find serious, mainstream apologists for Idi Amin, Ho Chi Min, Pol Pot, Mao, Fidel Castro, and so on....even the Che Guevera t-shirts have declined in popularity as far as I can see. And who remembers Nelson Mendela? Who dat?

That's not to equivocate Gandhi or any of these men with each other but how much of it was red propaganda influence and sympathy? Indian socialism was pretty popular and was going to unleash hell on us imperialist, capitalist pigs.

No one was as popular to that crowd as a third world nationalist who spit in the eye of an imperial power and enacted politic change in an extra-parliamentary manner. The only one left, that is both beyond reproach in ordinary conversation and still commonly celebrated- would be Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe noddy's experience is completely different, which would make sense considering the geography in play...I just haven't seen the same enthusiasm I remember as a boy- the type that made me sort of recoil and suspicious of the man to begin with.
noddy
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Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by noddy »

yeh im not sure about any of that, it certainly wasnt part of my viewpoint before or after, ghandi is more a post colonial thing to me and i just take it as more colour in the story.

india is an interesting place due to it being almost the perfect counterpoint to china in every way, the big arguments over multi culture versus mono culture and chaos versus order are never more real than when comparing those two.
ultracrepidarian
Simple Minded

Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:eh, is it changing anybody's mind in general?

From my p.o.v, people in my social vicinity have moved on from throwing Gandhi around- I don't hear him quoted in sanctimonious rants by leftist friends as much as he was hoisted on us as kids by our teachers and that particular adult generation; say the people who would've been teenagers at through the sixties and seventies and associated India with cool and genuine because of all the hip rock stars that picked up whacky faux-Indian philosophies.

I wonder if the development of nukes by India-Pakistan soured the bonhomie people used to have for Gandhi as a cypher/caricature of the wise, profound Indian. [As opposed to his wise Injun- who wasn't as profound but was earthy and wanted to take care of the planet one single tear shed at a time. There was also a whole generation who grew up watching their favorite, hip rock stars adopt whacky, faux-Indian philosophies to signal how deep they were- George Harrison's apparent seriousness about it all being the exception. Not a whole lot of chatter about gurus and babas.

...also a slight change in supporting third-world nationalist strongman types closer aligned to the USSR than the USA. At one point you could find serious, mainstream apologists for Idi Amin, Ho Chi Min, Pol Pot, Mao, Fidel Castro, and so on....even the Che Guevera t-shirts have declined in popularity as far as I can see. And who remembers Nelson Mendela? Who dat?

That's not to equivocate Gandhi or any of these men with each other but how much of it was red propaganda influence and sympathy? Indian socialism was pretty popular and was going to unleash hell on us imperialist, capitalist pigs.

No one was as popular to that crowd as a third world nationalist who spit in the eye of an imperial power and enacted politic change in an extra-parliamentary manner. The only one left, that is both beyond reproach in ordinary conversation and still commonly celebrated- would be Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe noddy's experience is completely different, which would make sense considering the geography in play...I just haven't seen the same enthusiasm I remember as a boy- the type that made me sort of recoil and suspicious of the man to begin with.
Well said as usual. Your post brings back fond memories of youth, yogis, Transcendental Meditation, Taoism, Bruce Lee ("Be like water"), mini-skirts, and woodies. I am beginning to suspect you (and perhaps even some of your peers) may be above average. ;)

Who (the giant, ever changing) "we" pick as heroes is always a refection of the current zeitgeist, and ever changing just like styles and fashions. Mini-skirts, tattoos, names of children, etc. Ever notice how many young boys are now named Noah? Indicator that the end is near?

With proper application of internet tech and social media, each person could become their own hero. Except that we are so fickle. We soon desire new distractions.
Simple Minded

Re: Ghandi, one of the root causes of terrorism.

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:yeh im not sure about any of that, it certainly wasnt part of my viewpoint before or after, ghandi is more a post colonial thing to me and i just take it as more colour in the story.

india is an interesting place due to it being almost the perfect counterpoint to china in every way, the big arguments over multi culture versus mono culture and chaos versus order are never more real than when comparing those two.
"More colour" If you was Merikan, I'd hafta use the "R" word on ya! ;)
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