Left Behind Rapture

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manolo
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Left Behind Rapture

Post by manolo »

Hi,

We watched a disaster movie called 'Left Behind'. It was biblical and the disaster concerned was the end of days and rapture.

So, the events happened, the chosen were gone and the story played out amongst those left behind to face war, pestilence and all the horrors etc etc. A disaster movie with no survivors long term.

Of course, the old theology questions were rehashed in the script, with apparently decent and reasonable folks left in the unselected group for whatever reason. It gradually became clear to the various characters in the story that there was only one reason they were left behind, they didn't believe. Even a good living pastor of the church was left sitting in his pews because as he said “I went through the motions, read the words, but in my heart I didn't really believe.”

Question? Is this what Christianity comes down to?

I was brought up to understand that being Christian was about loving and respecting others, doing good works selflessly. But in this (fictional) script, loving and being good were not enough. Children were ripped away from their loving and caring parents, with the haunting image of just a pile of clothes in this world and the children gone. Among the survivors there were all kinds of evidence of empathy and caring for each other, common bonding in adversity, grief, perplexity…….

Another question. Which group would we want to belong to? The ones who 'believed' and saved their souls, or the ones who used their freewill to choose what they had believed to be their own path.

A true disaster movie it seems.

A.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

This was a very popular series of novels with a Christian theme.

They appealed primarily to protestants too lazy to take on proper bible study.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
Simple Minded

Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by Simple Minded »

That's the cool part about "Religion," if you don't like the officially sanctioned flavors offered, you just create your own and call it "religion."
manolo
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by manolo »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:This was a very popular series of novels with a Christian theme.

They appealed primarily to protestants too lazy to take on proper bible study.
Nonc,

Are you thinking of Matthew 24?

A.
manolo
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by manolo »

Simple Minded wrote:That's the cool part about "Religion," if you don't like the officially sanctioned flavors offered, you just create your own and call it "religion."
SM,

Hey, take it easy on the Mormons - poor souls. :cry:

I'm still interested in my last question, which was answered very promptly on an atheist forum, unsurprisingly. Thirteen answers in a few minutes - err, hang on, 13 answers? :shock:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast

A.
noddy
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by noddy »

why would atheists have any insight into the christian rules on who gets let into heaven ?

garunteed to get a gibberish answer, for a start atheists dont belive in gods or heavens.

second on the list of gibberish answers would be intellectually lazy evangelicals playing gotcha games about belief.
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Over and over the NT says belief in Christ his mission divinity and resurrection is the foundation of the whole enterprise.

Being a good person alone will not cut it. This is the first you've heard of it?
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noddy
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by noddy »

i was under the impression both the catholics and the anglicans had revised that interpretation.
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Simple Minded

Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:i was under the impression both the catholics and the anglicans had revised that interpretation.
depends on whether you are talking about the old, new Testament, the new, new Testament, or the new, old Testament.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

manolo wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:This was a very popular series of novels with a Christian theme.

They appealed primarily to protestants too lazy to take on proper bible study.
Nonc,

Are you thinking of Matthew 24?

A.

Image

12 books in the series, all best sellers.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Over and over the NT says belief in Christ his mission divinity and resurrection is the foundation of the whole enterprise.

Being a good person alone will not cut it. This is the first you've heard of it?
more or less this, across the spectrum- as Father Richard John Neuhaus put it:

"When I come before the judgment throne, I will plead the promise of God in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I will not plead any work I have done, although I will thank God that he has enabled me to do some good. I will plead no merits other than the merits of Christ, knowing that the merits of Mary and the saints are all from him; and for their company, their example, and their prayers through my earthly life I will give everlasting thanks. I will not plead that I had faith, for sometimes I was unsure of my faith, and in any event that would be to turn faith into a meritorious work of my own. I will not plead that I held the correct understanding of 'justification by faith alone,' although I will thank God that that he led me to know ever more fully the great truth that much misunderstood doctrine was intended to protect. Whatever little growth in holiness I have experienced, whatever strength I have received from the company of the saints, whatever understanding I have attained of God and his ways…these and all other gifts I will bring gratefully to the throne. But in seeking entry to that heavenly kingdom, I will, with Dysmas, look to Christ and Christ alone."
manolo
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by manolo »

Mr. Perfect wrote: Being a good person alone will not cut it.
Mr P,

That is my understanding of the Christian eschatology.

A.
manolo
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by manolo »

noddy wrote:why would atheists have any insight into the christian rules on who gets let into heaven ?
nod,

Its in the scriptures.

A.
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

Endtime millinialists annoy true Christians. It's like, "we're helpless and useless, come down and rescue us........ because". Man was set on Earth to do something, not to muck about and look pathetic...... feh........
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
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YMix
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by YMix »

manolo wrote:Question? Is this what Christianity comes down to?
No, it's what revenge fantasies built on an apocalyptic foundation come to. Not much theology involved.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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manolo
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by manolo »

Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Endtime millinialists annoy true Christians. It's like, "we're helpless and useless, come down and rescue us........ because". Man was set on Earth to do something, not to muck about and look pathetic...... feh........
MFF,

Now, that is something that I can understand. (smiley for thumbs up)

A.
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Typhoon
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Re: Left Behind Rapture

Post by Typhoon »

Am I to understand that there is still a market for my Rapture Rupture Truss(tm)*.

*To be worn to at all times to prevent rupture in case of a too rapid and rapturous ascent into heaven.

Anyways,
.
We are God's chosen few;
All others will be damned.
There is no place in heaven for you:
We can't have heaven crammed.

~ Jonathan Swift
sums up, to me, this bit of theological recidivism.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

The LaHaye series is pulp fiction and Nonc hit it on the head when he said its appeal is to the lazy. The same kind who will watch a "based on a true story" movie and mistake it for history-- in this case, theology -- does history come down to Oliver Stone's JFK?
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits
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Re: Left Behind Rapture

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

The Book of Revelation is another manifestation of the deluge myth and these are much older than the story of Noah. The Flood symbolised a rebirth or cleaning of humanity and this is closely associated with Apocalypse which means an unveiling; a disclosure of hidden truth, a revelation.......'>.........

Image

Of course, I'm having you use your imagination and recognise that the Tribulation and the Return of G_d is just another manifestation of disaster analogy (instead of natural, it's supernatural) which makes it another deluge myth.......
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Left Behind Rapture

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

MFFT: Some similarities, but also many significant differences.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Left Behind Rapture

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:The Book of Revelation is another manifestation of the deluge myth and these are much older than the story of Noah. The Flood symbolised a rebirth or cleaning of humanity and this is closely associated with Apocalypse which means an unveiling; a disclosure of hidden truth, a revelation.......'>.........

Image

Of course, I'm having you use your imagination and recognise that the Tribulation and the Return of G_d is just another manifestation of disaster analogy (instead of natural, it's supernatural) which makes it another deluge myth.......
Many promising theological careers have ended when he or she decided to comment on John's Apocalypse. ;)
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits
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Re: Left Behind Rapture

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

Maybe....... humans are gravitating towards two poles, each providing a centre for human meaning and development. Christians hang towards the notion of caritas as defined by St. Augustine, and seculars and non-theists are gravitating towards Stoicism. both seem valid approaches. I am torn, but honesty leaves me to not trust my virtue........

Maybe more accessible than Ernest Becker.......'>......
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
noddy
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by noddy »

noddy wrote:i was under the impression both the catholics and the anglicans had revised that interpretation.
http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/s ... p?id=51077
Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few.The choice to accept its reach is our own. The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient. The Church wants all men and women to be saved.
i realise their is wiggle room on finding god by doing good and so forth however i was still under the impression that the long running stink with the jews about if they get approval from the beard in the sky was included in this.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Left Behind rapture

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

noddy wrote:
noddy wrote:i was under the impression both the catholics and the anglicans had revised that interpretation.
http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/s ... p?id=51077
Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few.The choice to accept its reach is our own. The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient. The Church wants all men and women to be saved.
i realise their is wiggle room on finding god by doing good and so forth however i was still under the impression that the long running stink with the jews about if they get approval from the beard in the sky was included in this.
One major theme of Francis's pontificate has been combating, what he described as, promethean neo-pelganism. In Evangelii Gaudium, he says:
94. This worldliness can be fuelled in two deeply interrelated ways. One is the attraction of gnosticism, a purely subjective faith whose only interest is a certain experience or a set of ideas and bits of information which are meant to console and enlighten, but which ultimately keep one imprisoned in his or her own thoughts and feelings. The other is the self-absorbed promethean neopelagianism of those who ultimately trust only in their own powers and feel superior to others because they observe certain rules or remain intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past. A supposed soundness of doctrine or discipline leads instead to a narcissistic and authoritarian elitism, whereby instead of evangelizing, one analyzes and classifies others, and instead of opening the door to grace, one exhausts his or her energies in inspecting and verifying. In neither case is one really concerned about Jesus Christ or others. These are manifestations of an anthropocentric immanentism. It is impossible to think that a genuine evangelizing thrust could emerge from these adulterated forms of Christianity.


The Pope is echoed by his predecessor, then in his capacity as a cardinal in the book Looking at Christ: Examples of Faith, Hope and Charity : "The other face of the same vice is the Pelagianism of the pious. They do not want forgiveness and in general they do not want any real gift from God either. They just want to be in order. They don’t want hope they just want security. Their aim is to gain the right to salvation through a strict practice of religious exercises, through prayers and action. What they lack is humility which is essential in order to love; the humility to receive gifts not just because we deserve it or because of how we act."

This is in line with the Council of Toucy, whose father's explained, “nothing is done in heaven or on earth, except what God either graciously does Himself or permits to be done, in His justice.”
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Typhoon
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Re: Left Behind Rapture

Post by Typhoon »

As an aside, the oldest known civilization is the Sumerian one in Mesopotamia which is held to have been founded about 3300 BC after agriculture began about 8000 BC.

The Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh describes a pre and post Flood.
The following chart makes me wonder if it is not a record of a previous oral history:

Image
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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