Zombies remind us that death is social

[Enki]

I love the notion that there is one 'authentic' Christian belief and another is not. If the Kingdom is now, then does God not provide the revelation in particular ways for particular nations?

I'm just saying that one version was adopted by most of the Christian churches in the world, and represents the "official" view for the majority of the world's Christians.

It doesn't mean that one version is more valid, and indeed by definition I view all versions of Christianity as invalid, but there is no way to verify any of that.

My point being, maybe God reveals creation in different ways to different peoples ON PURPOSE.

[Parodite]

I wonder if this is not a life exposition of how secularisation works. You start with miracles and saints, come to reject the holy baloony, keep the good acceptible stuff and slowly forget about it. Freeeheee at last.

[Demon of Undoing]

I wonder if this is not a life exposition of how secularisation works. You start with miracles and saints, come to reject the holy baloony, keep the good acceptible stuff and slowly forget about it. Freeeheee at last.

It's only because the holy baloney was put out there as a viable ( mandatory!) belief that this progression is even real. Belief in those miracles as an absolutely fundamental requirement is the aberration. If they put that all in the proper context, then the faith can be what it was supposed to be. It was never supposed to be Vaticans and Councils and creeds and armies. All that happens because of angels- on- a- pin speculation that had to under pain of death be thought of as real. It is unnatural to expect that thinking adults from any age should have to believe seven impossible things before breakfast, or God will deny them.

Secularization happens because we have forced people to run away from the foolishness. In doing so, they have had to run away from themselves and become these rootless and lonely consumers, jamming plastic into the hole in their chest.

[Enki]

I wonder if this is not a life exposition of how secularisation works. You start with miracles and saints, come to reject the holy baloony, keep the good acceptible stuff and slowly forget about it. Freeeheee at last.

It's only because the holy baloney was put out there as a viable ( mandatory!) belief that this progression is even real. Belief in those miracles as an absolutely fundamental requirement is the aberration. If they put that all in the proper context, then the faith can be what it was supposed to be. It was never supposed to be Vaticans and Councils and creeds and armies. All that happens because of angels- on- a- pin speculation that had to under pain of death be thought of as real. It is unnatural to expect that thinking adults from any age should have to believe seven impossible things before breakfast, or God will deny them.

Secularization happens because we have forced people to run away from the foolishness. In doing so, they have had to run away from themselves and become these rootless and lonely consumers, jamming plastic into the hole in their chest.

But isn't that what salvation is for?

[Enki]

Don't understand the question. Is salvation designed to be they key in the lock? Are all other things substitutes? Yes.

I would argue that the real mission of Christ was to render himself, the covenant, all of it, obsolete. Much of the moral transformation, in the sense of affecting global mores, has already outlived particular faith in any particular Jew. Paul went through a lot of words to show that the Law should be put off since something greater had come. We may need to revisit that idea.

In order to be found, must not one be lost in the first place?

I see it something as a metaphor for the creative destruction of each order being destroyed and replaced by a newer and greater order. As soon as one finds oneself within a particular order, then it is time to shuffle off that mortal coil to the next, higher level. Perhaps the ladder never ends. You can get off and hang out on one story for a while, and then get back onto the ladder. You can climb up, you can climb down.

[Demon of Undoing]

I would argue that a fundamental aspect of human nature is to feel isolated and alienated, to naturally feel lost and alone.

[Enki]

I would argue that a fundamental aspect of human nature is to feel isolated and alienated, to naturally feel lost and alone.

Do you think tribal kinship socities of the past felt this way? I don't get that native tribes in North America felt that way from the few writings that have survived.

I think western society with its 'don't touch each other ever if you can avoid it.', culture leads to alienation.

[Hoosiernorm]

DoU you have finally found a way to capture what you have been trying to say for awhile. I feel like I was present during a breakthrough in both thought and spirit. I think you could even make Ken say hallelujah!

[Demon of Undoing]

DoU you have finally found a way to capture what you have been trying to say for awhile. I feel like I was present during a breakthrough in both thought and spirit. I think you could even make Ken say hallelujah!

Honestly, it feels like it. I've been having a lot of rage inside for a while now because I was pissed to high heaven that I had clawed through this pile of horseshit, twenty miles deep, only to find a plastic My Little Pony. I know there is a transcendent God. I want people to see him like a fraction of my soul does. I can't reconcile the old language with what I know because the cognitive leap is too much for even my crazy ass. But I can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Glad you were here.

[Ibrahim]

I would argue that a fundamental aspect of human nature is to feel isolated and alienated, to naturally feel lost and alone.

Do you think tribal kinship socities of the past felt this way? I don't get that native tribes in North America felt that way from the few writings that have survived.

I think western society with its 'don't touch each other ever if you can avoid it.', culture leads to alienation.

DoU is just describing existentialism. I don't think we can really assert that no members of any ancient society suffered from this feeling, though it isn't really demonstrable that, as existentialist claim, everybody suffers from it either.

[Demon of Undoing]

I think the lack in human nature is commonly interpreted this way. I don't think it's always experienced in that way. The lingest and most in depth discussion with a pre- settled Native American was Black Elk. He definitely experienced a sense of breaking with the past and being disassociated from the sacred hoop of his people. Most of it was because of the trouble with whites, but being driven to a vision by an extreme sensation of needing fulfillment was old as dirt. It was a tradition to go up on the mountain until you could come down with some solution.

Riddle of steel, existentialist claptrap, joining with the spirits, whatever. May just be because we are pattern- seeking biomachines, looking for an authorative program that can both explain and point towards transformative solutions. Dunno.

[Hoosiernorm]

Most medicine men danced and chanted neither to man nor themselves. Sometimes words can't get you there and there just aren't any vehicles that can measure or hold the movement of the soul as it passes along the ground.

[Ibrahim]

I think the lack in human nature is commonly interpreted this way. I don't think it's always experienced in that way. The lingest and most in depth discussion with a pre- settled Native American was Black Elk. He definitely experienced a sense of breaking with the past and being disassociated from the sacred hoop of his people. Most of it was because of the trouble with whites, but being driven to a vision by an extreme sensation of needing fulfillment was old as dirt. It was a tradition to go up on the mountain until you could come down with some solution.

Riddle of steel, existentialist claptrap, joining with the spirits, whatever. May just be because we are pattern- seeking biomachines, looking for an authorative program that can both explain and point towards transformative solutions. Dunno.

All of this is precisely existentialism, though I can't say if it's "claptrap" or not.

[Demon of Undoing]

When you go back to the Epic of Gilgamesh, the quest is immortality. Seems like that, too, in the garden of Eden, but by that time, it's not so clear cut. It's tied in with knowledge ( and uncertainty) and position in the universe. The Egyptians search was for righteousness in judgement by the gods ( sorry about gross oversimplification, been a long time since Book of the Dead). Others were simply pagan in the Goldman sense, worshipping the tribe or human excellence. Excluding this last category, which to me is the lowest form of religious thought possible, I think you can cast all of them in existentialist molds.

[Enki]

I would argue that a fundamental aspect of human nature is to feel isolated and alienated, to naturally feel lost and alone.

Do you think tribal kinship socities of the past felt this way? I don't get that native tribes in North America felt that way from the few writings that have survived.

I think western society with its 'don't touch each other ever if you can avoid it.', culture leads to alienation.

DoU is just describing existentialism. I don't think we can really assert that no members of any ancient society suffered from this feeling, though it isn't really demonstrable that, as existentialist claim, everybody suffers from it either.

In my sparse studies of the subject, Native authors who wrote for posterity described something lost precisely to this. Like this alienation did not previously exist for them, and what existed before was lost to this alienation.

No doubt the vast panoply of human conditions have existed in all societies, but whether or not it was the default condition for all societies is another matter.

[Hoosiernorm]

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/26/mi ... ad-1-hurt/

South Beach Zombie killed by police.