Zombies remind us that death is social

[Hoosiernorm]

Zombies remind us that death is social
By Spengler

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 5Dj02.html

Paradoxical as it may sound, the one thing that each us of must do alone - namely die - is the most social of all acts. That is because we construct our lives so that they will have meaning after our death, and we depend on others to sustain that meaning. What we call culture is communication between our ancestors and descendants; what we call tradition is the link to past generations which we transmit to future ones. When we cease to construct our lives this way - when we reject tradition and transgress the culture - we also know that our lives have no meaning beyond our physical existence, and we begin to feel dead.

[Ibrahim]

Death-fear is certainly the basis of David Goldman's personal philosophy/theology. I don't know that other people necessarily have the same anxieties, or to the same degree.

[Demon of Undoing]

Death-fear is certainly the basis of David Goldman's personal philosophy/theology. I don't know that other people necessarily have the same anxieties, or to the same degree.

Who was it that said that, if you separate the soldiers from the scholars, your thinking will be done by cowards and your fighting by idiots? Thyucidides? Herodotus? Cartman?

Your statement sort of rang a bell that I've had near to striking for a few days. Spineless craven people, far as the eye can see. Amazing how often in pops up. Movies, essays, laws, foreign policy.

Have people always been this chickenshit? I'm not Superman, but Goddamnit, I'm gonna die. Even being the first Undying Space Tyrant, I have forseen it. I go in hand to hand combat with an Aruwagqhican warp Wyrm from the other side of the probability flux, somewhere within sight of Aldebarran, trapped in a malfunctioning vacuum adaptation. Can't change that. I'm star dust that will be other stars. Even God one day will forget about me.

Man the genuflect up, Goldman. I'm not even on your site, don't even read your stuff any more, but FFS. Get over yourself.

[Demon of Undoing]

Oh, Jesus. Just read the article ( yes, I commented before reading. I did it with a fair sense that the article would be sure to repeat many past errors as Gospel. Was not disappoint). My thoughts are as follows.

1) Yep. Chickenshit.

2) Does Goldman intentionally miss the obvious point of every piece of film he's ever seen, or just most of them? Zombies are popular right now because of marketing and current anxieties about social trust and fraying authority. And guns. And finding a last legitimate target that you can go Total War against without feeling guilty. Also teen male reality deprived angst perpetrated into the 30's. The supposition is that if you add cataclysm, Waldo becomes Chuck Norris. I've seen that delusion happen in real time. It's pretty funny. Sad, usually unintentionally gory, but funny nonetheless.

3) Aaaaand you all suck because you don't Jew enough or something.

[noddy]

funny, my take on the zombie thing is very adolescent

"everyone but me is just going through the motions, a cog in the machine, im the alive one" it complements the emo thing "everyone but me is nasty and doesnt feeeeeeeeeeeel like i do".

death fear is very much alive in the modern west and dominates all aspects of our life, so i think his monomania on this subject is correct for the context

[Ibrahim]

Demon, your post remind of something I read in a hostile obit for Christopher Hitchens:

It was a comical idea he elucidated further, largely to defuse the criticism that his wanton warmongering would kill scores and not affect Hitch in the slightest; Norman Finklestein found the money quotation:

Outraged at the taunt that he who preaches war should perhaps consider fighting it, Hitchens impatiently recalls that, since September 11, "civilians at home are no safer than soldiers abroad," and that, in fact, he's not just a but the main target: "The whole point of the present phase of conflict is that we are faced with tactics that are directed primarily at civilians…. It is amazing that this essential element of the crisis should have taken so long to sink into certain skulls."

Considering some of those "certain skulls" might be the family members of dead U.S. servicemen — not to mention, the voiceless, victimized Iraqis — it's easy to see how one might conclude that some British fruit is panicking about Al Qaeda.

Emphasis mine.





I'm also reminded of Spartacus (Kirk Douglas version):

Are you afraid to die? It's easy to die. Haven't you seen enough gladiators in the ring to know how easy is it to die?

You'd think Mr. More Killing, Please would be on top of these things...

[Ibrahim]

funny, my take on the zombie thing is very adolescent

"everyone but me is just going through the motions, a cog in the machine, im the alive one" it complements the emo thing "everyone but me is nasty and doesnt feeeeeeeeeeeel like i do".

death fear is very much alive in the modern west and dominates all aspects of our life, so i think his monomania on this subject is correct for the context

This is my view on the zombie phenomenon, and IIRC some of the originators of the genre said it was a critique of modern consumer culture.

Plus, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Hordes of slow, stupid, squishy antagonists are excellent fodder from heroes armed with re-purposed sporting goods and yard tools.

[noddy]

yeh, dou mentioned the cigar aspect, this is also true.

the post apocalyptic, bad guys as pyscho loose nuts caters to that better.

[Demon of Undoing]

Also, it's a chance to use the scenario to set up thought experiments. I watched most of TWD with my then- ten year old daughter, who knows enough about digital effects AND blood spatter to critique the special effects cogently. We watched the series bounce ( mostly shallowly) off the ideas of how people live in the face of seeming hopelessness, which Goldman apparently didn't even bother to look into. Answer for the show: many won't live and will overtly choose death. Some will keep on keeping on out of habit. Some will hardly notice. Some will live in fantasy.

And some like Rick Grimes will keep getting back up and doing what he has to because genuflect you, he's got a sense of duty even if and no matter what. Grimes is Sysiphus with a Colt Python. But Goldman wouldn't know that, because Rosenweig isn't in the credits.

Damn the scary movies Piano Man is hung up on. He needs to watch some Kurosawa movies. Maybe start with Afro Samurai to get the feel and dig on RZA.

Yeah, that's gonna happen.

[noddy]

unless jews were involved or you can find the greek references, probably not.

[Ibrahim]

Damn the scary movies Piano Man is hung up on. He needs to watch some Kurosawa movies. Maybe start with Afro Samurai to get the feel and dig on RZA.

Heh, or Ghost Dog.

When it comes to psychological robustness, I'm taking any Wu-Tang member over Spengler.

[Demon of Undoing]

Damn the scary movies Piano Man is hung up on. He needs to watch some Kurosawa movies. Maybe start with Afro Samurai to get the feel and dig on RZA.

Heh, or Ghost Dog.

When it comes to psychological robustness, I'm taking any Wu-Tang member over Spengler.

Ghost Dog is a great movie. All these people worried about a search for meaning. Man, it's right there underneath your feet.

[noddy]

i need to watch that again, only saw it once when it first came out and it was during one of most chemicaly indulgent stages in life so barely remember it

[Enki]

I re-watched Ghost Dog recently. It's a fabuluos film. I didn't like it that much the first time. But rewatching it I got how brilliant that film truly is.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

Talkboards remind us that certain articles can be killer................

[Azrael]

Death-fear is certainly the basis of David Goldman's personal philosophy/theology. I don't know that other people necessarily have the same anxieties, or to the same degree.

Who was it that said that, if you separate the soldiers from the scholars, your thinking will be done by cowards and your fighting by idiots? Thyucidides? Herodotus? Cartman?

That's a good quote. And I think General Petraeus said it.

Thucydides said it.

Your statement sort of rang a bell that I've had near to striking for a few days. Spineless craven people, far as the eye can see. Amazing how often in pops up. Movies, essays, laws, foreign policy.

Have people always been this chickenshit?

I suppose that there have always been some people that are this chickenshit, but there seem to be a lot more of them around.

Nowadays, parents make their children wear helmets for just about everything. A bit of projection, I think. There used to be a time when kids used to be allowed to play kickball in the street (although that was over by 1990). Now they're monitored 24/7.

I'm not Superman, but Goddamnit, I'm gonna die. Even being the first Undying Space Tyrant, I have forseen it. I go in hand to hand combat with an Aruwagqhican warp Wyrm from the other side of the probability flux, somewhere within sight of Aldebarran, trapped in a malfunctioning vacuum adaptation. Can't change that. I'm star dust that will be other stars. Even God one day will forget about me.

Man the genuflect up, Goldman. I'm not even on your site, don't even read your stuff any more, but FFS. Get over yourself.

+1

[Hoosiernorm]

Damn the scary movies Piano Man is hung up on. He needs to watch some Kurosawa movies. Maybe start with Afro Samurai to get the feel and dig on RZA.

Heh, or Ghost Dog.

When it comes to psychological robustness, I'm taking any Wu-Tang member over Spengler.

Ghost Dog is a great movie. All these people worried about a search for meaning. Man, it's right there underneath your feet.

Sorry the only thing under our feet are the dead. In less than a generation the created fantasy will die and the next created fantasy will be created. The connection between the two is the same type of escape but they don't bring you anywhere and both hold no power over each other or the connecting generation. Try reading the essay again because you both just made Dave's case valid in your rebuttal.

[Enki]

One thing Spengler is good at, is reminding us just how pathetic it is to desperately attempt to say something erudite so that you might be remembered past your death as a learned man.

[Hoosiernorm]

Awhile back there was the article about "Why there isn't a Jewish Narnia" that got everyone in probably a worse mood. You aren't going to the promised land based on either myth or heroism or ethnicity. Ghost dog is only the next telling of the same story with the same baggage. Better graphics do nothing for the same ol song and dance. Death is everywhere and it will conquer all. The horror of life's ultimate challenge can not be won by either myth or fantasy. Great battles are only another thing to do while waiting around to die.

[Ibrahim]

Awhile back there was the article about "Why there isn't a Jewish Narnia" that got everyone in probably a worse mood. You aren't going to the promised land based on either myth or heroism or ethnicity. Ghost dog is only the next telling of the same story with the same baggage. Better graphics do nothing for the same ol song and dance. Death is everywhere and it will conquer all. The horror of life's ultimate challenge can not be won by either myth or fantasy. Great battles are only another thing to do while waiting around to die.

I don't think we are talking about the same movie.

[Hoosiernorm]

Awhile back there was the article about "Why there isn't a Jewish Narnia" that got everyone in probably a worse mood. You aren't going to the promised land based on either myth or heroism or ethnicity. Ghost dog is only the next telling of the same story with the same baggage. Better graphics do nothing for the same ol song and dance. Death is everywhere and it will conquer all. The horror of life's ultimate challenge can not be won by either myth or fantasy. Great battles are only another thing to do while waiting around to die.

I don't think we are talking about the same movie.

Hero movies are the same as cowboy movies are the a same as magic elves or boy wizards or jedi nights. Redemption is the domain of god's plan for his people and only he can provide it. You don't need another path to heaven if you have the correct one to begin with.

[Enki]

Awhile back there was the article about "Why there isn't a Jewish Narnia" that got everyone in probably a worse mood. You aren't going to the promised land based on either myth or heroism or ethnicity. Ghost dog is only the next telling of the same story with the same baggage. Better graphics do nothing for the same ol song and dance. Death is everywhere and it will conquer all. The horror of life's ultimate challenge can not be won by either myth or fantasy. Great battles are only another thing to do while waiting around to die.

Only if you subsume all of life's meaning to death. Since pretty much all of society is a death worshipping cult, I can see how that might be so. Spengler is a death cultist, so that's what he focuses on.

[Demon of Undoing]

.

[Demon of Undoing]

Damn the scary movies Piano Man is hung up on. He needs to watch some Kurosawa movies. Maybe start with Afro Samurai to get the feel and dig on RZA.

Heh, or Ghost Dog.

When it comes to psychological robustness, I'm taking any Wu-Tang member over Spengler.

Ghost Dog is a great movie. All these people worried about a search for meaning. Man, it's right there underneath your feet.

Sorry the only thing under our feet are the dead. In less than a generation the created fantasy will die and the next created fantasy will be created. The connection between the two is the same type of escape but they don't bring you anywhere and both hold no power over each other or the connecting generation. Try reading the essay again because you both just made Dave's case valid in your rebuttal.

Got news for you, pal. David Goldman and everything he loves is a space between supernova. His meaning is a feeble emotional construct as fragile as his own consciousness. As soon as he or anybody else can show me they actually have an alternative, we can have a discussion about it. Right now, he just has a series of asserted hopes and fantasies, each more fragile than the last. He can't face his own death, so to him, everybody else is flogging about, while he has a nut lock on truth, beauty and transcendance. As far as permanance goes, Goldman's just making stuff up and hoping he's right. He doesn't have an alternative, he just says he does and concludes the discussion.

There is no meaning. Meaning is everywhere. Goldman can't handle that. He doesn't have any sort of meaning in his pocket. He's got an IOU, a placeholder written anonymously. Anybody can pretend. Regardless of the final truth of his position, he doesn't have any ground to claim this much certainty as of right now. Humility might make his point for him. " You suck because there are no God arpeggio in the theme song " doesn't do it.

[Ibrahim]

Awhile back there was the article about "Why there isn't a Jewish Narnia" that got everyone in probably a worse mood. You aren't going to the promised land based on either myth or heroism or ethnicity. Ghost dog is only the next telling of the same story with the same baggage. Better graphics do nothing for the same ol song and dance. Death is everywhere and it will conquer all. The horror of life's ultimate challenge can not be won by either myth or fantasy. Great battles are only another thing to do while waiting around to die.

I don't think we are talking about the same movie.

Hero movies are the same as cowboy movies are the a same as magic elves or boy wizards or jedi nights. Redemption is the domain of god's plan for his people and only he can provide it. You don't need another path to heaven if you have the correct one to begin with.

The point being that one can reject of all of that and create their own meaning in their life, in the case of this movie by adopting an obsolete ethical code.

According to existentialism this is what everybody does anyway. Existence precedes essence, most people just inherit their code from their parents in the form of an established religion.