Zero Dark Thirty

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Ibrahim
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Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Ibrahim »

Maaaan, it would have been so easy not to screw this up. Oh well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ure-awards
Zero Dark Thirty: new torture-glorifying film wins raves
Can a movie that relies on fabrications to generate support for war crimes still be considered great?

Earlier this year, the film "Zero Dark Thirty", which purports to dramatize the hunt for and killing of Osama bin Laden, generated substantial political controversy. It was discovered that CIA and White House officials had met with its filmmakers and passed non-public information to them - at exactly the same time that DOJ officials were in federal court resisting transparency requests from media outlets and activist groups on the ground that it was all classified.

With its release imminent, the film is now garnering a pile of top awards and virtually uniform rave reviews. What makes this so remarkable is that, by most accounts, the film glorifies torture by claiming - falsely - that waterboarding and other forms of coercive interrogation tactics were crucial, even indispensable in finding bin Laden.

In the New York Times on Sunday, Frank Bruni wrote: "I'm betting that Dick Cheney will love the new movie 'Zero Dark Thirty.'" That's because "'enhanced interrogation techniques' like waterboarding are presented as crucial" to finding America's most hated terrorist. Bruni explains [emphasis added]:

"t's hard not to focus on them, because the first extended sequence in the movie shows a detainee being strung up by his wrists, sexually humiliated, deprived of sleep, made to feel as if he's drowning and shoved into a box smaller than a coffin.

"The torture sequence immediately follows a bone-chilling, audio-only prologue of the voices of terrified Americans trapped in the towering inferno of the World Trade Center. It's set up as payback.

"And by the movie's account, it produces information vital to the pursuit of the world's most wanted man. No waterboarding, no Bin Laden: that's what "Zero Dark Thirty" appears to suggest."
Hoosiernorm
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Mmmmmmmm Mmmmmmmm Mmmmmmmm
Been busy doing stuff
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Azrael
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Azrael »

I was dreading the movie (which I had been looking forward to earlier, before the first reviews) until I read this:

>>
Back to the movie: Whether Ammar offers up any useful new information pointing toward Osama bin Laden, and what exactly Dan gets out of him through torture, are deliberately murky plot points. Some commentators have made it sound as though “Zero Dark Thirty” offers a clear cause-and-effect relationship, like an outtake episode of Fox’s odious “24”: They torture the hell out of some guy, he gives up Osama, the Navy SEALs bring death from above to that now legendary compound in Abbottabad, and it’s rah-rah USA! But the story this movie spins isn’t anything like that, and we’re a long way from idiotic ticking-bomb scenarios.
<<
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Demon of Undoing
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Demon of Undoing »

That's it. Keep glorifying commandos not adherent to rules and law; see what you get.
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Azrael
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Azrael »

We could wake up some day being ruled by someone like Gabriele D'Annunzio; but without the talent.
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Hoosiernorm
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Azrael wrote:We could wake up some day being ruled by someone like Gabriele D'Annunzio; but without the talent.
Glenn Beck?
Been busy doing stuff
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Enki
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Enki »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Azrael wrote:We could wake up some day being ruled by someone like Gabriele D'Annunzio; but without the talent.
Glenn Beck?
Mitt Romney?
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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Azrael
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Azrael »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Azrael wrote:We could wake up some day being ruled by someone like Gabriele D'Annunzio; but without the talent.
Glenn Beck?
Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini
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Azrael
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Azrael »

Has anyone seen this movie yet? I still haven't seen it and am leaning against seeing it. It's already out in limited release and will be in wide release on Friday.

I'd be very interested to hear the opinion of anyone here who has seen the movie.
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Farcus

Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Farcus »

I'm waiting until Quentin Tarrantino retells the story with General Aldo Raines coming out of retirement to take his last scalp.
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Enki
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Enki »

Demon of Undoing wrote:That's it. Keep glorifying commandos not adherent to rules and law; see what you get.
The movie doesn't actually do that. All of these reviews are inaccurate descriptions of the film.

I thought it was a good film and the torture was treated as morally ambiguous. The information gleaned from torture was a tenuous bit of info that no one believed meant everything except the one quixotic analyst who wouldn't let it go, whose hunch happened to be correct.

Whether or not this is historically accurate, I don't know. The criticisms are all so much disinfo too.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Ibrahim
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Ibrahim »

Enki wrote:
Demon of Undoing wrote:That's it. Keep glorifying commandos not adherent to rules and law; see what you get.
The movie doesn't actually do that. All of these reviews are inaccurate descriptions of the film.

I thought it was a good film and the torture was treated as morally ambiguous. The information gleaned from torture was a tenuous bit of info that no one believed meant everything except the one quixotic analyst who wouldn't let it go, whose hunch happened to be correct.

Whether or not this is historically accurate, I don't know. The criticisms are all so much disinfo too.

Making the torture "ambiguous" is pro-torture propaganda. It has been conclusively determined by all investigations, reports, and released accounts and fact, that torture was entirely couterproductive in the hunt for OBL.
Ibrahim
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Ibrahim »

Farcus wrote:I'm waiting until Quentin Tarrantino retells the story with General Aldo Raines coming out of retirement to take his last scalp.

Tarantino's past revenge-fantasies have wisely selected targets with very little residual popular support (Southern slavers, Nazis). With roughly half of Americans supporting any kind of torture or murder conducted by their government, tackling this subject would require a little more subtlety and finesse than he is otherwise known for.



On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.
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Azrael
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Azrael »

Farcus wrote:I'm waiting until Quentin Tarrantino retells the story with General Aldo Raines coming out of retirement to take his last scalp.
Once upon a time in Af-Pak . . .

Perhaps Aldo could also help out the Forest Brothers -- Once upon a time in Communist-Occupied Lithuania . . . perhaps a bit too obscure.
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Farcus

Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Farcus »

Ibrahim wrote:
Farcus wrote:I'm waiting until Quentin Tarrantino retells the story with General Aldo Raines coming out of retirement to take his last scalp.

Tarantino's past revenge-fantasies have wisely selected targets with very little residual popular support (Southern slavers, Nazis). With roughly half of Americans supporting any kind of torture or murder conducted by their government, tackling this subject would require a little more subtlety and finesse than he is otherwise known for.



On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.
:lol:

Haven't seen Zero Dark 30 or Django Unchained yet. But I liked Mandingo, Shaft, Superfly, Car Wash, Wattstax, I'm Gonna Get You Sucka, and that crime drama with Jane Kennedy and her husband. :mrgreen:
Blaxploitation movies are great.


Reading Jon Meacham's Jefferson: The Art of Power. Riveting.
Dunsmore, the King's Govenor of Virginia who moved into a ship down the river and offshore of Williamsburg after disbanding the House of Burgesses, in 1775 proclaimed freedom to any slave who took arms against the colonists.
The American revolution was a top-down effort. Dunsmore's punative move backfired pretty bad.



Weather's crappy here. House full of people.
Had a Clint Eastwood Spaghetti Western Festival Saturday around the Baltimore game. A Fistfull of Dollars, 4aFDM, Il Buono, il Brutto, il Cattivo., High Plains Drifter, The Outlaw Josey Wales. Great cycle. Great pasta.

Then it was lox and bagles and homemade clam chowder in toasted bread bowls and the Terminator series (1-4) around the New England game yesterday. Score.
Last edited by Farcus on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Farcus

Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Farcus »

Azrael wrote:
Farcus wrote:I'm waiting until Quentin Tarrantino retells the story with General Aldo Raines coming out of retirement to take his last scalp.
Once upon a time in Af-Pak . . .

Perhaps Aldo could also help out the Forest Brothers -- Once upon a time in Communist-Occupied Lithuania . . . perhaps a bit too obscure.

CSM Billy Waugh - 71-yo CIA subcontractor attached to USN SEAL Team 5, Afghanistan, 2001-2003
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Apollonius
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Apollonius »

Ibrahim wrote:On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.


People like Ibrahim who enjoy seeing white people massacred should put in a word to Quentin Tarrantino to let them know they'd be interested in seeing a film which portrays the events in Haiti starting in August 1791.
Ibrahim
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Ibrahim »

Apollonius wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.


People like Ibrahim who enjoy seeing white people massacred should put in a word to Quentin Tarrantino to let them know they'd be interested in seeing a film which portrays the events in Haiti starting in August 1791.

Very interested. The slave uprising against French colonial slavers in Haiti was entirely justified. To oppose it is to support slavery and dehumanize Haitians.

Toussaint Louverture is a fascinating figure, worthy of epic film treatment. I'd suggest Denzel Washington or Djimon Hounsou for the lead.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Ibrahim wrote:
Apollonius wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.


People like Ibrahim who enjoy seeing white people massacred should put in a word to Quentin Tarrantino to let them know they'd be interested in seeing a film which portrays the events in Haiti starting in August 1791.

Very interested. The slave uprising against French colonial slavers in Haiti was entirely justified. To oppose it is to support slavery and dehumanize Haitians.

Toussaint Louverture is a fascinating figure, worthy of epic film treatment. I'd suggest Denzel Washington or Djimon Hounsou for the lead.
Undoubtedly a perfect movie script. Voudin, violence, heroism and 18th century costume drama. All great film material.

Who would you suggest play Boukman, the man who actually lit the fire?
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Ibrahim
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Ibrahim »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Apollonius wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.


People like Ibrahim who enjoy seeing white people massacred should put in a word to Quentin Tarrantino to let them know they'd be interested in seeing a film which portrays the events in Haiti starting in August 1791.

Very interested. The slave uprising against French colonial slavers in Haiti was entirely justified. To oppose it is to support slavery and dehumanize Haitians.

Toussaint Louverture is a fascinating figure, worthy of epic film treatment. I'd suggest Denzel Washington or Djimon Hounsou for the lead.
Undoubtedly a perfect movie script. Voudin, violence, heroism and 18th century costume drama. All great film material.

Who would you suggest play Boukman, the man who actually lit the fire?
I don't know how old he was at the time, but lets go full Oscar-bait and get Morgan Freeman in there.
Farcus

Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Farcus »

Idris Elba would be perfect. So would Denzel.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Farcus wrote:Idris Elba would be perfect. So would Denzel.
Nailed it, Farcus. Elba (The Wire's Stringer Bell) for Boukman, Denzel for Louverture.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Typhoon
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Typhoon »

Ibrahim wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Apollonius wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.


People like Ibrahim who enjoy seeing white people massacred should put in a word to Quentin Tarrantino to let them know they'd be interested in seeing a film which portrays the events in Haiti starting in August 1791.

Very interested. The slave uprising against French colonial slavers in Haiti was entirely justified. To oppose it is to support slavery and dehumanize Haitians.

Toussaint Louverture is a fascinating figure, worthy of epic film treatment. I'd suggest Denzel Washington or Djimon Hounsou for the lead.
Undoubtedly a perfect movie script. Voudin, violence, heroism and 18th century costume drama. All great film material.

Who would you suggest play Boukman, the man who actually lit the fire?
I don't know how old he was at the time, but lets go full Oscar-bait and get Morgan Freeman in there.
nd_WPdc2Mgg

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Enki
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Enki »

Ibrahim wrote: Making the torture "ambiguous" is pro-torture propaganda. It has been conclusively determined by all investigations, reports, and released accounts and fact, that torture was entirely couterproductive in the hunt for OBL.
That is how it is portrayed in the film. People other than Maya don't believe in that snippet of info because it was obtained through torture.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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Enki
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty

Post by Enki »

Apollonius wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:On a related note, I saw Django Unchained over the holidays. Many Southern white slavers die at the hands of blacks. A+ family viewing. Recommended.


People like Ibrahim who enjoy seeing white people massacred should put in a word to Quentin Tarrantino to let them know they'd be interested in seeing a film which portrays the events in Haiti starting in August 1791.
I have thought about writing a film about that. The story of Toussaint would be a fascinating film. It'd be Braveheart in the Carribean basically.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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