On the Nature of Things | Forum

So season 2 starts this weekend on HBO, and they've been airing promos and making-of documentaries for months now. As a result, and despite already having read the novel ten years ago, I'm actually pretty excited about this. This series of books is that last sci-fi/fantasy thing I'm still following, so I can channel all of my remaining "nerd" enthusiasm into it.

I always felt the 2nd and 3rd novels were the best of the lot, so this season and the next should likewise make for the best televised version. Particularly interested to see how the stage the scenes on Pike, given my perverse interest in Norse/Viking culture.


Worth noting, as everyone else has, that the shows don't quite live up to the books, but no teleplay based on a novel ever does. I enjoy them nonetheless for what they are.

i started watching series one on the weekend, tis a good mix o politics,blood and boobs.

the stark fellow that i suspect i was meant to like was actually quite annoying, the pimp and the imp seem the most interesting in these early stages.

noddy wrote:i started watching series one on the weekend, tis a good mix o politics,blood and boobs.

the stark fellow that i suspect i was meant to like was actually quite annoying, the pimp and the imp seem the most interesting in these early stages.

Well spotted, noddy. The Imp is the massive fan favorite. I wanted to dislike him just to be contrarian, but it didn't take. Littlefinger is interesting as well.

Ned Stark is an honest, stand-up guy. Which means he's in entirely the wrong book/show.

Ibrahim wrote:

noddy wrote:i started watching series one on the weekend, tis a good mix o politics,blood and boobs.

the stark fellow that i suspect i was meant to like was actually quite annoying, the pimp and the imp seem the most interesting in these early stages.

Well spotted, noddy. The Imp is the massive fan favorite. I wanted to dislike him just to be contrarian, but it didn't take. Littlefinger is interesting as well.

Ned Stark is an honest, stand-up guy. Which means he's in entirely the wrong book/show.

he comes across as retarded.

i have more than enough sympathy for his preferences but how could he be so willfully ignorant.. it didnt fit for me.

he is apparently from a long line of kings, intimately involved in the overthrow of the previous high king, long used to the politics of the seven kingdoms and yet the barbarian horse lord who has never crossed the ocean seems to have a better grip on the politics than he does.

Barbarians from tribal cultures usually have a pretty good grip on politics. It's usually more overtly life-and-death.

Ned's a bit too naive in the first book, a lot of people make fun of the character about it. It's equally life and death at King's Landing, but he doesn't catch on.

Ibrahim wrote:So season 2 starts this weekend on HBO, and they've been airing promos and making-of documentaries for months now. As a result, and despite already having read the novel ten years ago, I'm actually pretty excited about this. This series of books is that last sci-fi/fantasy thing I'm still following, so I can channel all of my remaining "nerd" enthusiasm into it.

I always felt the 2nd and 3rd novels were the best of the lot, so this season and the next should likewise make for the best televised version. Particularly interested to see how the stage the scenes on Pike, given my perverse interest in Norse/Viking culture.

How is it perverse? It would seem that Vikings and medieval Turks share common interests.

Worth noting, as everyone else has, that the shows don't quite live up to the books, but no teleplay based on a novel ever does. I enjoy them nonetheless for what they are.

I've neither read any books or seen any episodes. Perhaps I will someday. I'm afraid I don't have HBO. In fact, I don't watch much TV.

i dont have cable either, its available on dvd/bluray which is why i was watching it... needed something the missus would watch and got suckered right in.

hadnt read the books, heroic fantasy isnt usually my thing but this does have a less predictable path than the rest.

Azrael wrote:

Ibrahim wrote: Particularly interested to see how the stage the scenes on Pike, given my perverse interest in Norse/Viking culture.

How is it perverse? It would seem that Vikings and medieval Turks share common interests.

It's true. I'm supposed to be into it when Turkomans rove across the globe looting and killing more advanced civilizations. Northern Europeans are supposed to be into it when Vikings or Normans do it.

But I've always found the Viking Age and Norse Mythology to be fascinating, despite the fact that so many Himmler-esque creeps have been into it. If I ever get stuck in a elevator with a white supremacist at least we'll have something to talk about.

I've neither read any books or seen any episodes. Perhaps I will someday. I'm afraid I don't have HBO. In fact, I don't watch much TV.

Speaking of the major cable series in general, they are as good as, often better than, movies these days. Rome, Deadwood, The Wire, and Breaking Bad are all better than Game of Thrones, and the best shows I've seen. Game of Thrones is high quality, but not in that elite company. I hardly watch any TV other than HBO/AMC shows, and you can buy or DL the complete seasons.

Ibrahim wrote:Barbarians from tribal cultures usually have a pretty good grip on politics. It's usually more overtly life-and-death.

Ned's a bit too naive in the first book, a lot of people make fun of the character about it. It's equally life and death at King's Landing, but he doesn't catch on.

He's not so much naive as he lives life based on how he thinks it SHOULD be rather than how it is. Doesn't mean he doesn't understand what is, just that his notion of honor won't allow him to act in the way he should act even though he knows.

His involvement in the overthrow of the other King wasn't as much political because he was a General running a war, not a peacetime politician.

Ibrahim wrote:

Azrael wrote:

Ibrahim wrote: Particularly interested to see how the stage the scenes on Pike, given my perverse interest in Norse/Viking culture.

How is it perverse? It would seem that Vikings and medieval Turks share common interests.

It's true. I'm supposed to be into it when Turkomans rove across the globe looting and killing more advanced civilizations. Northern Europeans are supposed to be into it when Vikings or Normans do it.

But I've always found the Viking Age and Norse Mythology to be fascinating, despite the fact that so many Himmler-esque creeps have been into it. If I ever get stuck in a elevator with a white supremacist at least we'll have something to talk about.

Brilliant!

I've neither read any books or seen any episodes. Perhaps I will someday. I'm afraid I don't have HBO. In fact, I don't watch much TV.

Speaking of the major cable series in general, they are as good as, often better than, movies these days. Rome, Deadwood, The Wire, and Breaking Bad are all better than Game of Thrones, and the best shows I've seen. Game of Thrones is high quality, but not in that elite company. I hardly watch any TV other than HBO/AMC shows, and you can buy or DL the complete seasons.

Thanks for the advice. There are a lot of series that I've been meaning to watch. I've heard mixed reviews about the new Battlestar Galactica. I've heard that Boardwalk Empire is pretty good. And, I've wanted to see the House of Cards trilogy, which I've heard will be remade with Kevin Spacey playing Francis Urquhart.

Enki wrote:

Ibrahim wrote:Barbarians from tribal cultures usually have a pretty good grip on politics. It's usually more overtly life-and-death.

Ned's a bit too naive in the first book, a lot of people make fun of the character about it. It's equally life and death at King's Landing, but he doesn't catch on.

He's not so much naive as he lives life based on how he thinks it SHOULD be rather than how it is. Doesn't mean he doesn't understand what is, just that his notion of honor won't allow him to act in the way he should act even though he knows.

His involvement in the overthrow of the other King wasn't as much political because he was a General running a war, not a peacetime politician.

Fair enough. He's not suited for the task at hand, that's for sure. But perhaps "naive" isn't the right word.

i suspect the book must flesh out the context and his thought process alot more because in the tv version he really did come across as either farmboy naive or suicidal... nothing he did seemed to have any concern for his family or the kingdom, the very things that honour and honesty are usually for.

his last minute reversal to try and save the daughter was confusing in that regard.

I think Barristan Selmy negotiates the problem of being a "stand up guy" in a conspiratorial milieu much better than Ned Stark does. It's all about knowing when to make your stand and when to shut up.


noddy, I agree the false confession was a strange break from character. Theoretically the noble aristocratic type would put honor and "house" above threats to individual family members.

I've decided I'm off this show now. They've changed the tone into more of a tits-and-cliffhanger-endings fest than the style I'd prefer. I thought it would stay more like Rome but it's getting to be another True Blood.

Not that they'll miss me, I'm told the show is doing gangbusters. I'll just wait for the books to wrap up and then I can bury my sci-fi/fantasy reading career once and for all.

Are we allowed to talk about the later books in here? I know it's spoilers for anyone who's just watching the show, but I just read the Dance With Dragons a few months ago and I need to commiserate godammit.

IIRC we already had a discussion about the newest book in another thread, most people here who commented at all have read the books.

Juggernaut Nihilism wrote:Are we allowed to talk about the later books in here? I know it's spoilers for anyone who's just watching the show, but I just read the Dance With Dragons a few months ago and I need to commiserate godammit.

Can't see any reason why not.

Yeah, I read all of the books.

Bumping this thread because I was given series 1 and 2 box set of DVDs as a present, so am watching it years after everyone else . No spoilers please. Just getting to the end of series 1, and yes, Ned Stark's honourable stupidity and naivety is preparing the audience for the inevitable end.

Am finding it gripping, but the darkness and cynicism so far are way beyond real life, even in dark age times, and the depth, humanity and ambiguity of the characters is pretty limited, only Tyrian Lannister so far is interesting that way. It's still a cut-em-down boys hero epic. But then, winter is coming...

One interesting sideline which may have escaped American viewers is that a lot of the Starks and their retainers speak with northern English accents. Aye, lad, Winterfell be in Yorkshire, and the Wall as a parody of Hadrian's smaller erection leads one to expect Geordies (inhabitants of Newcastle) walking through the summer snows in T-shirts drinking bottles of Newkie brown. Across the narrow sea foreigners from the rough proximity of Brussels threaten the seven kingdoms, and of course beyond the Wall you can't expect Wildings/Picts/Scots to be civilised...

Dargerys' effect on her Dothraki Khan reminds one of the Christian wives of those Viking barbarians, as in St. Olaf, patron saint of Norway. "Right, you f...ckers are going to become meek loving Christians, or else i'll chop your f..cking heads off" . I wonder if the Dothraki will realise that milking the human sheep is far more profitable than slaughtering them, so they will become soft and civilised, and other barbarians will threaten them in turn.

The fact that everybody was trying as hard as possible to be as cunt!ish as possible is what killed my interest by the end of the first book.

Still, George R.R. Martin hails from Bayonne NJ, which unlike Bayonne, France, is a hell hole, so that may colour one somewhat.

Interesting that if one inserts a few dots or exclamation marks in forum text, then one's vulgar epithets are no longer converted to equatorial fruits.

My taste for lavender-scented softener has diminished somewhat over the past months.

YMix wrote:My taste for lavender-scented softener has diminished somewhat over the past months.

i understand that fully - i have a low tolerance for drama productions, plenty of that in my world as it is and no interest in turning my entertainment hour into more of it.

Torchwood wrote:Still, George R.R. Martin hails from Bayonne NJ, which unlike Bayonne, France, is a hell hole, so that may colour one somewhat.

Interesting that if one inserts a few dots or exclamation marks in forum text, then one's vulgar epithets are no longer converted to equatorial fruits.

My Mother was born in Bayonne, Bayonne isn't a hellhole, it's a pretty standard working class urban suburb.

Finally wrapped up the third season on DVR. I have to say they are really turning Daenerys' plotline into a neo-liberal wet dream. Finally, the progressive white woman from the West can inculcate some civilization into their depraved Asiatics by teaching them things like foreplay and that slavery is bad. Oh, and her Eastern future-love interest is blonde now, but the slaves aren't? Interesting production choice. Gray Worm or bust.

Some pretty major scenes (no spoilerz!11!!) were well handled, but in some ways the show is almost a parody of itself. I haven't read the first three books for ten years, but I don't remember that much rape or near-rape.


But, and this is the most important thing, why don't the Ironborn have beards? Why don't they look like vikings? How do you blow that call?