Musicology | Love 'em, Hate 'em

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Mr. Perfect
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Musicology | Love 'em, Hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Torchwood wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: Maybe U2? They aren't highly rated I think, just the last big seller. Haven't made an album you'd listen to front to back since the 90's.
Haven't made an album you'd listen to, period, I never understood the cult of U2.
It is totally an Irish thing, though I suppose it's an Irish thing of a certain kind....
Well I got sucked in all the way, in 85-86 they put out an EP called "wide awake in america" that had a live recording of "Bad" that knocked me flat out. Followed up the Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum, they unleashed a sound never heard before, and one that bewitched me for many years.

Their sonic innovations are up there with the all time greats, they did those records from Unforgettable Fire on with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois and made sounds it took me nearly 10 years to replicate.

Edge uses this thing called a Herdim pick that scratches the string instead of picking it, which changes a normal plinking sound called chicken picken and turns a clean electric into something never heard before. Everyone talks about the echo but he'd never be able to do it without that pick. He went Herdim-single coil-delay and made that sound, and the blend of that sound with his singing and Bono blends as well as anything since Gilmour/Wright singing on "Time"

Additionally, they invented ('85?) what's called the shimmer during UF, which is a pitch shifter run through a delay that takes any guitar part and duplicates into an organic synthesizer sound, adding another layer into the sound that's just chilling. Edge runs it with a volume pedal live and it can blow the stadium out.

Rattle and Hum (movie) is sonically the best live recording of the period, and hasn't been rivaled until recently, for a lot of reasons. Despite being a flop it has half a dozen songs on there that are as good as anyone ever did.

Then came Achtung, which was alright, the confused Pop album which is slightly better with time but not worth defending and other than a couple of singles and one offs every album after sucked hog.

They aren't good musicians, they are amazing with the knobs, have that sound that they always want to get away from and are now boring to the point of tears and their fans are embarrassing.

Got it off my chest.
Last edited by Mr. Perfect on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Overrated -- the list

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Torchwood wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: Maybe U2? They aren't highly rated I think, just the last big seller. Haven't made an album you'd listen to front to back since the 90's.
Haven't made an album you'd listen to, period, I never understood the cult of U2.
It is totally an Irish thing, though I suppose it's an Irish thing of a certain kind....
Well I got sucked in all the way, in 85-86 they put out an EP called "wide awake in america" that had a live recording of "Bad" that knocked me flat out. Followed up the Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum, they unleashed a sound never heard before, and one that bewitched me for many years.

Their sonic innovations are up there with the all time greats, they did those records from Unforgettable Fire on with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois and made sounds it took me nearly 10 years to replicate.

Edge uses this thing called a Herdim pick that scratches the string instead of picking it, which changes a normal plinking sound called chicken picken and turns a clean electric into something never heard before. Everyone talks about the echo but he'd never be able to do it without that pick. He went Herdim-single coil-delay and made that sound, and the blend of that sound with his singing and Bono blends as well as anything since Gilmour/Wright singing on "Time"

Additionally, they invented ('85?) what's called the shimmer during UF, which is a pitch shifter run through a delay that takes any guitar part and duplicates into an organic synthesizer sound, adding another layer into the sound that's just chilling. Edge runs it with a volume pedal live and it can blow the stadium out.

Rattle and Hum is sonically the best live recording of the period, and hasn't been rivaled until recently, for a lot of reasons. Despite being a flop it has half a dozen songs on there that are as good as anyone ever did.

Then came Achtung, which was alright, the confused Pop album which is slightly better with time but not worth defending and other than a couple of singles and one offs every album after sucked hog.

They aren't good musicians, they are amazing with the knobs, have that sound that they always want to get away from and are now boring to the point of tears and their fans are embarrassing.

Got it off my chest.
Wow. :lol:

I laugh but I get where you're coming from, even though I may disagree with some of it. The Joshua Tree is a heckuva album, and I feel like they really lucked out with With or Without You there...even if it gets cheesy, it still sounds like nothing else.

I didn't know about the pick thing; I always figured it was all in the knobs for those guys...which is the problem. I know they were supposed to be a punk/new wave type band but they seem to play even worse than your standard new wave/punk bands out there....it's like a miracle they had ten years as a very distinctive AND popular group. I don't know too much U2 history, but I'd imagine as the 90s approached, they thought of the business aspect of things...you can't blame them for that. Given the choice of being like a 80s nostalgia act or a well oiled pop machine, what would you choose?

Did they ever learn how to play, or grow as musicians? Bono can't sing; the Edge can't play guitar; the drummer may be competent but nothing stands out in songs that are rhythmically boring and the bassist is terrible (I don't think I've ever heard a U2 song where the bassist adds anything other than playing some of the easiest and laziest rock bass lines ever.)

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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Overrated -- the list

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Yeah, the Bill Bailey thing says what we all knew already, I always enjoy that.

I think the two best songs, pure songs ever written are Silent Night and With or Without You. I remember being in a busy office one day as it came on the radio, and in 2 seconds you could hear a pin drop and nobody said anything for two minutes afterward. It was a really strange moment. They tapped into something from another place on that song no doubt about it.

There were some more really good ones after, there are some songs they just got in this zone no one else could but if you don't get it you don't get it and frankly I don't try to explain it, you hear it or you don't. As to why they never got to be musicians I have no explanation and stopped caring. They just suck now and that's all really there is.
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Re: Overrated -- the list

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Here is the shimmer thing, you should be able to recognize it in half their songs. Starts about 1:20, shimmer kicks in at 2:00.

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Re: Overrated -- the list

Post by Typhoon »

I like two songs from the album Achtung Baby: One and So Cruel.

Johnny Cash did a remarkable cover of One.
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Re: Overrated -- the list

Post by Typhoon »

Mr. Perfect wrote: . . .

. . . [an interesting post - I learned something new] . . .

. . . they are amazing with the knobs . . .
I always wondered about that after seeing the videos for One and esp Lemon. Not that there is anything wrong with that . . .
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Re: Overrated -- the list

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Agh don't get me started on gitttars, I'll never shut up.

This guy though kills the shimmer around 1:25, but overdrove the mic unfortunately. I'm still a sucker for it. Watch him hit the volume pedal.

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Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I thought a new thread about people/bands/entertainers/businesses of any kind could be bashed out here, perhaps the U@ stuff can be moved over by moderators.

Naps, I agree about Sunday Bloody Sunday, but you have to remember they were penniless at that time and made the album in a Dublin alleyway somewhere. They didn't have any kind of budget until Unforgettable Fire which was mixed, but they found their sound on the following tour and voila you have the Joshua Tree coming next and all the money in the world for production.

Interesting about bands of the period, unless you had 3 hit records you were going to leave the business with nothing, nobody was really making money. We thought if they were on stage they were gazillionaires at the time but in the 90's when the behind the music stuff started hitting it became apparent they made no money, hair bands in particular.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I really hated Indy IV and I really hated the Star Wars movies.

I loved Raiders, that is probably my favorite all time movie.

Was wondering if anyone knows, during the late 70's and early 80's the film stock was amazing, the first Star Wars to Raiders, the film of that period had this grainy quality that was all gone by the time say Jurassic Park came around where everything was bright and clear and sanitized. I know they started filtering again at the end of the 90's with the Matrix typ look followed by the Resident Evil/Beckinsale Dracula look (having only seen a few minutes of those movies). Now they are showing off the HD stuff and the movies look to clear to my eye, I prefer a little old fashined film grit.

I've googled on this topic several times but can't find anything on it, wonder if anyone knows.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

its the rise of digital cameras over film ones afaik - many photographers continue to use film because they dont like the digital look and their are lots of subtle differences in colour tonality and noise grit and the handling of shadows/hilights (dynamic range) to those that look for them.

however the cost difference is outrageous, you really do need to love that look and all the extra work involved.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Well it seems ovvious to my uneducated eye that the film must have changed over the decades, my relation is to music where the best sounding stuff was in the 60;s and early 70's, and as equipment got better it sounded worse (sterile) from guitar player's point of view. In the late 90's primitive tube equipment came back though expensive, and it sounds better but will never be what it was.

This is highly documented stuff in the guitar world, it takes no effort to read about it. It seems like similar things have happened in film, just haven't run across it. For example if I were to do a movie the first thing I would ask the cinematographer would be how to get that old look.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

it is all over the photography and movie forums but unlike the guitar analogy the cost difference is outrageous and ongoing rather than just once off so its not as easy to become a mainstream choice or option... its pretty much dead for all but the most indulgent.

a tube amp costs a wee bit more than a digital one but to keep the analogy going you would have to replace the full set of tubes on each performance and then even more again to "develop it" before listening to it.

the modern solution is to use the biggest digital sensor you can find (typically fullframe 35mm) with big film lenses that can give the visual depth cues of the old film cameras and then run effects which emulate the old colours and grit.

its not perfect but its much closer to the classic cinema look than the small sensor digital using small modern lenses which gives you that nasty video look with no depth.

just found this one quickly.

http://screenrant.com/movie-technology- ... 167/all/1/

i love my old tube amp, i really should pick up the axe again one day...
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Re: Overrated -- the list

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Agh don't get me started on gitttars, I'll never shut up.

This guy though kills the shimmer around 1:25, but overdrove the mic unfortunately. I'm still a sucker for it. Watch him hit the volume pedal.

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How much does that set up cost?
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Amps about $1,500 pedals and FX about $1,500 unless he bought it all used.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Do you have to have multiple amps to run a board like that through?
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

No.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Pop music is, by and large, an assembly line process.

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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Hoosiernorm »

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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Hoosiernorm »

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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I just want to take a moment to celebrate what I believe is the best movie franchise of all time.

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If you watch the behind the scenes and commentary it's hard not to realize this may be the greatest storytelling since Shakespeare.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

This movie touched me in deep and mysterious ways. One of the most emotional experiences in my life and it changed me. I owe Sly a debt I can never repay.

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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

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Probably the greatest active athlete in the world.

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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Destroying a dude.

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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Hoosiernorm »

If you don't already own a pair of either compression or performance underwear you are missing out on what undergarments are suppose to feel like
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by jerryberry »

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Mr. P,

Chet has no frets and a classical guitar but what is that specific effect? Do you know? Some sort of synth?? The fuzz on the e & a strings is really nice.
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