Musicology | Love 'em, Hate 'em

Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the tea. Then you drink it properly.
Simple Minded

Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:hey SM, I told you I'd write you that song if you voted for Trump...well, this was one silly attempt from some time ago which I just came across while reviewing material from the past year and figured instead of just tossing it out, sending it your way. All rights reserved and all of that

Simple Minded

Simple minded epiphany
Ephemeral, as ill at ease
As Reimann surfaces upon our door

You take the good and you take the bad
Measure up like good ol' Euclid
You don't need to provide any bluster
But don't isolate yourself

We just wanna know
Which side your voting for
We can measure the hypotenuse of your angle (whoa whoa whoa)

You may think we're irrational
Acutely misshapen quadrilaterals
Isosceles straight from the pillars of Hercules
and parallelogram-ed

We just wanna know
Which side your voting for
We can measure the angles of your booth (whoa whoa whoa) (together)

(bridge) [I don't have anything for this part written down; nor is there anything recorded...so I figure it must have some sort of instrumental over the verse]

We just wanna know
Which side your voting for
We can measure the circumference of a win (whoa whoa whoa) (together)

Don't take the rhombus as a square
Don't line you up and vote for her
It's not pointless to be obtuse
Just vote for Trump whatdya gotta lose
Simple Minded Epiphany
Simple Minded Epiphany
Simple Minded Epiphany

The chords are:

Verse:

E maj/A maj/B maj/E maj/E maj/f# min/a min/E maj/E maj

Refrain

g# min/A maj/g# min/A maj/g# min/A maj/B maj

the vocal melody for the first two verses is something like:

EEE E D# D C# B

C#C#C# A BBB

EEEE E D# D B

B C C# ---> G#

refrain is:

B BBB BC#C#C#C#E

AC#...F# (this sort of changes depending on the silly ending tagline)

For the third verse and the last verse, it's something more like:

E..., last note F#

B...BAC#

E..., last note F#

B/C C# ----> G#

think Bob Dylan in 'Like A Rolling Stone" where the lack of melodic shape and insistent notes are a way to drive the lyrics in while focusing on the phasing.
:lol: Love it!

Consider your debt paid in full.

[Play nice. SFW. TIA. Mod.]

If I ever run for POTUS, you're in charge of sloganeering, and Mr. P will be in charge of creating dozens of posts saying "The election is over. Simple Minded lost!"

both of you will be rewarded with cabinet position plumbs after the inevitable win.....
noddy and parodite will be my ambassadors to the rest of the world.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

shirley it should walk between 2 contradictory chord changes!

im quite inexpensive at foreign relations and get excellent outcomes provided the goal is set appropriately.
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Simple Minded

Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:shirley it should walk between 2 contradictory chord changes!

im quite inexpensive at foreign relations and get excellent outcomes provided the goal is set appropriately.
Not only contradictory chords, but mutually exclusive and virtually indistinguishable..... Mr P's E flat and Tinker's or Zack's D sharp...

Thankfully, we are not planning to go where no man has ever gone before. Shirley, we should emulate the best examples humanity has ever provided to ensure success:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7QQ5pO7_A

I understand Grasshopper. Without flexibility, diplomacy is impossible.

As Bruce Lee would say: "Be like water!"
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

a tritone and halfstep metal riff in Eb ontop of a 2-5-1 cheesy jazz groove in D# does sound amazing.
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Simple Minded

Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:a tritone and halfstep metal riff in Eb ontop of a 2-5-1 cheesy jazz groove in D# does sound amazing.
since I have been accused of being tone deaf, I'll hafta take yer word for it......

Don't do too good a job on this, remember, "we" are responsible for maintaining Napster's sense of self-esteem..... ;)
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:a tritone and halfstep metal riff in Eb ontop of a 2-5-1 cheesy jazz groove in D# does sound amazing.
since I have been accused of being tone deaf, I'll hafta take yer word for it......

Don't do too good a job on this, remember, "we" are responsible for maintaining Napster's sense of self-esteem..... ;)
Looks like I missed part of this conversation. :lol:

Okay, glad you'll accept it.

I abandoned that particular song for a few reasons:

1)The lyrics are really spotty in places and couldn't think of how to improve'em

2)It's difficult to sing or articulate some of those lines- even for me, as I am alright with tight tongue twisters...

3)And, chordally, it's "Nowhere Man", or awfully close to it.

voZ-kRCtLYw

which is one of those things that seems funny until it's (and/or I'm) just stupid.

Please, if you do ever break it out to play though, fix some of those lyrics.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Going through some of my old cds, I came across this:

ksqNTU2LBPg

...and it remains one of my favorite albums.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:a tritone and halfstep metal riff in Eb ontop of a 2-5-1 cheesy jazz groove in D# does sound amazing.
since I have been accused of being tone deaf, I'll hafta take yer word for it......

Don't do too good a job on this, remember, "we" are responsible for maintaining Napster's sense of self-esteem..... ;)
Looks like I missed part of this conversation. :lol:

.
twas a triangultion joke in case it wasnt obvious.

i never actually listened to fugazi - i knew of them but i only had a passing interesting in punk and dead kennedies satisfied that.

ill have to rectify that.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:a tritone and halfstep metal riff in Eb ontop of a 2-5-1 cheesy jazz groove in D# does sound amazing.
since I have been accused of being tone deaf, I'll hafta take yer word for it......

Don't do too good a job on this, remember, "we" are responsible for maintaining Napster's sense of self-esteem..... ;)
Eb=D#
Censorship isn't necessary
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

iO4Fs6MkMAc
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

noddy wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:a tritone and halfstep metal riff in Eb ontop of a 2-5-1 cheesy jazz groove in D# does sound amazing.
since I have been accused of being tone deaf, I'll hafta take yer word for it......

Don't do too good a job on this, remember, "we" are responsible for maintaining Napster's sense of self-esteem..... ;)
Looks like I missed part of this conversation. :lol:

.
twas a triangultion joke in case it wasnt obvious.

i never actually listened to fugazi - i knew of them but i only had a passing interesting in punk and dead kennedies satisfied that.

ill have to rectify that.
I can't attest for their whole catalog. For me, the last two (maybe 3) albums are the only ones worth given a listen to. Of course, these [Red Medicine, End Hits and The Argument] are considered their most experimental, and overall ambitious.

I picked up End Hits on a whim, having no idea of Fugazi beyond knowing the name and it was revelatory, musically- truth be told, I couldn't make out more than half of the pinko lyrics :lol: .

Which is why it was so surprising to find out, after listening to it, how widely panned it was at the time. "Boring, perfunctory, discordant guitar doodling..."

Nowadays it's "greatness" is being revised by hipsters but, for me it was always there. If I were to make my own rock album, I'd be ecstatic if it turn'd out like End Hits- a less aimless Sonic Youth album with much greater sense of layered rhythm; slower, disjointed and fragmentary ideas clashing and conflicting while obliquely suggesting a greater whole.

The Argument is probably the better album and (relatively) poppy. But it never quite captured my attention like End Hits did.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

Ill listen to it on the way to work one day.

watched the "stopped making sense" movie again the other day after decades of forgetting about Talking Heads - they really have aged well and the good tunes are as strong as ever.

the ironic hipster doing an ironic hipster pisstake of iron hipsters is ermm, ironic ? but the music and lyrics are as strong as you can get and he reached beyond himself , which is all you can ask of any artist.

the basslines are the living definition of perky, each pluck seems dripping with fun.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Talking Heads is definitely a big one.

They always struck me as one of a handful of bands from that generation that liked old rock and roll, r'n'b/funk- dance music- better than post 60s hard rock music&sensibilities but were too embarrassed to straight out admit it. So they couched it in a heavy layer of camp.

David Byrne besides being a great artist in general, obviously has an affection or compassion for his subjects in a way a whole camp of ironic hipsters one may name couldn't ever muster; at best, it comes out as total condescension.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

The Magnetic Fields 69 Love Songs, a triple-album distributed over 3 volumes.

EjeuxwW4Imo

5oxLUCQ2_gc

2BG5GjxpFCE

5abruK4N86o

It's hard to pick any one song, let alone four, as a representative selection. Almost all 69 tracks is a stand out in one way or another of American pop music. The only thing which prevents it from being an out and out masterpiece is its 3 hour length itself- even though it isn't ponderous, it's excessive. So it has to settle for merely very good.

It weaves it's way through every conceivable style and mood and feeling a "love song" in pop music may be presented in.

Moreover, when I first heard volume 2 (which is where I started), it re-conceptualized songwriting for me and disabused me that hard rock had a whole lot to offer.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

I picked up End Hits on a whim, having no idea of Fugazi beyond knowing the name and it was revelatory, musically- truth be told, I couldn't make out more than half of the pinko lyrics :lol: .

Which is why it was so surprising to find out, after listening to it, how widely panned it was at the time. "Boring, perfunctory, discordant guitar doodling..."

Nowadays it's "greatness" is being revised by hipsters but, for me it was always there. If I were to make my own rock album, I'd be ecstatic if it turn'd out like End Hits- a less aimless Sonic Youth album with much greater sense of layered rhythm; slower, disjointed and fragmentary ideas clashing and conflicting while obliquely suggesting a greater whole.

The Argument is probably the better album and (relatively) poppy. But it never quite captured my attention like End Hits did.
I had a listen and a less aimless Sonic Youth is a perfect description - Im now surprised I havent given them much attention as I was very much into the raw invention, ,atonal thing back at the time... one of my bands was vaguely hip in the local scene for a brief period doing it.

then again their was a shitload of it going on and most of it was nasty noise in 4/4 with random wankery over the top and easily forgotten.

I tend to box that side of things in the "post beefheart" filing cabinet, which later spat out bungle and primus and what not.

so as much as the punk/no wave thing hated prog rock they ended up owning it.. most amusing.
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Talking Heads is definitely a big one.

They always struck me as one of a handful of bands from that generation that liked old rock and roll, r'n'b/funk- dance music- better than post 60s hard rock music&sensibilities but were too embarrassed to straight out admit it. So they couched it in a heavy layer of camp.
.
very true - thats a great way of describing it.
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: David Byrne besides being a great artist in general, obviously has an affection or compassion for his subjects in a way a whole camp of ironic hipsters one may name couldn't ever muster; at best, it comes out as total condescension.
i dont disagree with any of that - i mean he obviously came from the same art student crowd as the rest of them, his basic toolset was recognisable as from within that clique , yet as you say he didnt look down on the things he commented on - their was a self awareness of all that.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Speaking of punk; or I guess what's labelled garage punk:

LpiMS0uA1TQ

The Troggs Live!

I love the guy's timbre of the shambolic backing. It's even better live.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

australias pub rock scene in the 70's through to 90's was quite amazeballs - some got world famous like ACDC or INXS but my favourite was always Beasts of Bourbon, who later on turned into a much smoother outfit called The Cruel Sea when they got old and fat.

white trash , super sleazy camped up and amped up to 11 - when they were "on" the energy levels where untouchable.

mVFTA7-0q04

I saw this tour but towards the end the coppers shut down the venue and then lined us up for drug searches - including the band.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

noddy wrote:australias pub rock scene in the 70's through to 90's was quite amazeballs - some got world famous like ACDC or INXS but my favourite was always Beasts of Bourbon, who later on turned into a much smoother outfit called The Cruel Sea when they got old and fat.

white trash , super sleazy camped up and amped up to 11 - when they were "on" the energy levels where untouchable.

mVFTA7-0q04

I saw this tour but towards the end the coppers shut down the venue and then lined us up for drug searches - including the band.
I checked out the Cruel Sea as well, it is definitely smoother. It's all much too much Dionysian for me at the moment.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

e'rbody moshin'..... er'body surfin'.........

steppin' on the broken glass, havin' fun.......;)........
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
I checked out the Cruel Sea as well, it is definitely smoother. It's all much too much Dionysian for me at the moment.
i can only listen to the beasts in small doses now for similar reasons i suspect - the talk of last century filthy punk reminded me of bands the rest of the world might not have seen.

cruel sea is much more eclectic - much is crap, some is truly excellent and makes for good drinking music on lazy days.
Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:e'rbody moshin'..... er'body surfin'.........

steppin' on the broken glass, havin' fun.......;)........
if you notice the broken glass you havent done the needful preperations!
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

noddy wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
I checked out the Cruel Sea as well, it is definitely smoother. It's all much too much Dionysian for me at the moment.
i can only listen to the beasts in small doses now for similar reasons i suspect - the talk of last century filthy punk reminded me of bands the rest of the world might not have seen.

cruel sea is much more eclectic - much is crap, some is truly excellent and makes for good drinking music on lazy days.
Something I can't appreciate-- and it's a explaining water to a fish situation-- is the rock concert experience.

I think I've said this but I've seen two big shows as an audience member- Pearl Jam in a stadium and Boris in a place with a few hundred people- Pearl Jam was really silly; Boris was good but the crowd wasn't for me. A bunch of dudes and spontaneous moshpits...I don't pay money to be suddenly hit in the face...

My only other big (non-classical/opera) concert experience has been behind the scenes. What I used to do is go backstage at these venues and just start talking to people, and they'd let me through thinking I was with the opening band. :lol:

I once had this guitarist from this older, worldwide famous band profusely complimenting me for my front-man prowess. He told me my band was going places. I told him sometimes things go so smoothly it's feels like I'm not even on stage. :lol: The band that opened for them had this short guy with short jet black hair and a Bruce Springsteen-thing going on...I guess it's the thought that counts?

Even the bar acts I've seen tend towards the starting-out/never going anywhere hipster types. Or underground hip-hop- I spent some time doing the "only white guy at the underground hip-hop night" which is a totally different vibe. :lol:

So the energy of a good night for the hard rock/bar band is lost on me- no reference, no way to distinguish it.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

qdRIz7jpPvE

This band was pretty popular on the bar scene as a post-grunge sort of act. With the two singers it sort of reminded me of Alice in Chains. I didn't really care for'em as a band but the guys were pretty friendly and the places would fill up past capacity for them.

Connecticut, as I've been told, is a place for hardcore dark metal or whatever it's called, but I've never gone to a metal show- not my thing. So there are probably lotsa acts I've missed that way.

m5g51p0zFc4

Oneida, is a nice Brooklyn hipster band who were really good when I saw'em but they don't seem to have caught on outside Brooklyn.

and Ted Leo and the Pharmacists- all the Brooklyn art kids like'em...I always liked this song:

zRD4CoiDzuQ

But I think they are one of these international bands so it's not like they are obscure...I just never know how well known they actually are.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by Typhoon »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: . . .

Something I can't appreciate-- and it's a explaining water to a fish situation-- is the rock concert experience.

I think I've said this but I've seen two big shows as an audience member- Pearl Jam in a stadium and Boris in a place with a few hundred people- Pearl Jam was really silly; Boris was good but the crowd wasn't for me. A bunch of dudes and spontaneous moshpits...I don't pay money to be suddenly hit in the face...

. . .
Attended three concerts while I was in the US Midwest. Had not previously done so.

Midnight Oil. Don't recall why. Most memorable aspect was the urinals were overflowing and there was several cm of urine on the floor.
Was glad that I had worn my work boots.

The Pogues. A band that is a personal favourite. Sean McGowan was reasonably, if far from completely, sober and they gave a brilliant performance.
Memorable.

Billy Bragg. Don't care for his politics, but do appreciate his songwriting skill. He gave a great performance. Solo on electric guitar as is his custom.

Also used to go the to Sunday Jazz Showcase when it was at the Blackstone Hotel. A Brazilian friend was a jazz fiend.

As for hip-hop and rap:

COCY3UVoTGA

The only rapper I like is Marc Panther from the J-band Globe

b6cZUkbi0WM

On the other hand, I do like the blues.

Was a regular at the New Checkerboard Lounge again back when it was on E. 43rd St.
Had the pleasure of seeing various Chicago blues legends perform.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Something I can't appreciate-- and it's a explaining water to a fish situation-- is the rock concert experience.

I think I've said this but I've seen two big shows as an audience member- Pearl Jam in a stadium and Boris in a place with a few hundred people- Pearl Jam was really silly; Boris was good but the crowd wasn't for me. A bunch of dudes and spontaneous moshpits...I don't pay money to be suddenly hit in the face...

My only other big (non-classical/opera) concert experience has been behind the scenes. What I used to do is go backstage at these venues and just start talking to people, and they'd let me through thinking I was with the opening band. :lol:

I once had this guitarist from this older, worldwide famous band profusely complimenting me for my front-man prowess. He told me my band was going places. I told him sometimes things go so smoothly it's feels like I'm not even on stage. :lol: The band that opened for them had this short guy with short jet black hair and a Bruce Springsteen-thing going on...I guess it's the thought that counts?

Even the bar acts I've seen tend towards the starting-out/never going anywhere hipster types. Or underground hip-hop- I spent some time doing the "only white guy at the underground hip-hop night" which is a totally different vibe. :lol:

So the energy of a good night for the hard rock/bar band is lost on me- no reference, no way to distinguish it.
probably not missing anything, its a time and place thing, I doubt I could find it again now ive hit the Get Off My Lawn stage of life.

never got Pearl Jam, monotonous Mr Ed voice, straight up and down bland strum rock - it was MOR crap ala air supply or foreigner to my ears - nirvana isnt much better either.

in terms of that era - only early soundgarden still has a place in my playlist from time to time - bad motor finger is an american classic which belongs in the all time greats for that type of music.

I did live the rock pig thing for the late 80's and into the 90's .. saw so many concerts, played in lots of crap gigs but I have to play the "if you remember you werent there" card for most of it.

big rock concerts are usually terrible, stadiums suck (red hot chili peppers where woeful, even in their prime) but the bands with a solid rythmic backbone in a smaller venue - peak primus or mr bungle springs to mind - can elevate the madness when they are in the pocket and getting the tension and release combinations just right.

Hip Hop is something that mostly passes me by but i do have a softspot for the pumping bass sample stuff from the 90's - the guys who are all fat and on TV now :)
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Re: Love 'em, hate 'em

Post by noddy »

Typhoon wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: . . .

Something I can't appreciate-- and it's a explaining water to a fish situation-- is the rock concert experience.

I think I've said this but I've seen two big shows as an audience member- Pearl Jam in a stadium and Boris in a place with a few hundred people- Pearl Jam was really silly; Boris was good but the crowd wasn't for me. A bunch of dudes and spontaneous moshpits...I don't pay money to be suddenly hit in the face...

. . .
Attended three concerts while I was in the US Midwest. Had not previously done so.

Midnight Oil. Don't recall why. Most memorable aspect was the urinals were overflowing and there was several cm of urine on the floor.
Was glad that I had worn my work boots.

The Pogues. A band that is a personal favourite. Sean McGowan was reasonably, if far from completely, sober and they gave a brilliant performance.
Memorable.

Billy Bragg. Don't care for his politics, but do appreciate his songwriting skill. He gave a great performance. Solo on electric guitar as is his custom.

Also used to go the to Sunday Jazz Showcase when it was at the Blackstone Hotel. A Brazilian friend was a jazz fiend.

As for hip-hop and rap:

COCY3UVoTGA

The only rapper I like is Marc Panther from the J-band Globe

b6cZUkbi0WM

On the other hand, I do like the blues.

Was a regular at the New Checkerboard Lounge again back when it was on E. 43rd St.
Had the pleasure of seeing various Chicago blues legends perform.
that generation of american electric blues pretty much invented modern music - its hard to not love any of those guys, I did manage to see Albert King before he died and it was a great night.

My favourite is Howling Wolf - that stuff still sounds modern.

Midnight Oil I have seen but dont remember, tho i do find it amusing he blew all of his anti establishment credibility by becoming an ineffectual politician - which is very funny if you listen to his early politics.
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