Are people getting ruder?

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Apollonius
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Are people getting ruder?

Post by Apollonius »

Are people getting ruder? - Nicola Shulman, Times Literary Supplement, 30 October 2013
http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1333555.ece


Review of:

Sorry! The English and Their Manners by Henry Hitchings (John Murray)

... Any book about English manners must grapple with concepts of what it is to be English; the problem here being that, once you allow “Englishness”, you must allow Frenchness, Spanishness, Greekness, Germanness (to go no further than the European continent), and pretty soon you are in trouble. As Hitchings says, the study of national character is not respectable nowadays. Or perhaps it is more that the study of foreign national character is not respectable. As we move towards the present day, popular commentary about “The English” doesn’t cease, but it becomes the prerogative of perceptive natives such as Jeremy Paxman, Kate Fox or Harry Mount, who tend to keep the gaze within these borders, as though it were rude to stare.

All analyses of nationhood will reflect the desires and prejudices of the commentator. Orwell’s famous assessment of his compatriots as “stamp-collectors, pigeon fanciers, coupon-snippers, darts-players, crossword puzzle fans . . . . all the culture that is most truly native centres round things which even when they are communal are not official”, written in 1941, is at bottom an incantation against the totalitarianism he feared. Hitchings’s official position is that he hasn’t got a position, either on what we are or what we should be. However, being at heart a lexical historian (his first book was on Dr Johnson’s Dictionary), he keeps coming back to the meanings and usages of words as a thread to steady himself, and here, where we get closest to him, he betrays a sense that reticence, evasiveness and strategies of non-confrontation are still central to the English character. His chapter on euphemism is particularly good, showing how the old addiction to saying the opposite of what we mean remains robust in a culture of supposed outspokenness and transparency; so that words such as “should” and “must” are now imperative in meaning but subjunctive in application (we must have lunch), and “it’s my fault” means “it’s your fault”. As for the decline of manners, it seems the rot set in in the eighteenth century, when the notion of “equal conversation” – the flow of ideas and debate animating all parts of civilized life – gave rise to that of (for example) Mary and William Godwin: that manners were artificial, corrupt and a form of oppression, devised to keep women and the poor in their place. ...
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Typhoon
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Re: Are people getting ruder?

Post by Typhoon »

I don't know, but Leon is getting larger.
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Simple Minded

Re: Are people getting ruder?

Post by Simple Minded »

I would not say ruder, but less patient.

Probably the result of fast food, instantaneous communication, email software that displays ten contacts after typing three letters, speed dialing, microwave ovens, pre-packaged foods, DVR's, iTunes, etc.
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Marcus
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Re: Are people getting ruder?

Post by Marcus »

Back in the small, Texas town where we lived, one guy had this note on his front door: "If you didn't call, don't knock."

Here in Alaska, a friend has this: "Pets welcome; children must be on a leash."

Recently sent a distant cousin, a young lady of 16, a book about women hunting in Alaska. Received a "thank you" note sent from an iPhone.


Signs of the times . .
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
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"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Are people getting ruder?

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Marcus wrote:Back in the small, Texas town where we lived, one guy had this note on his front door: "If you didn't call, don't knock."

Here in Alaska, a friend has this: "Pets welcome; children must be on a leash."

Recently sent a distant cousin, a young lady of 16, a book about women hunting in Alaska. Received a "thank you" note sent from an iPhone.


Signs of the times . .
I imagine most hunting for women in Alaska involves a smartphone these days.
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Marcus
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Re: Are people getting ruder?

Post by Marcus »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Marcus wrote:Back in the small, Texas town where we lived, one guy had this note on his front door: "If you didn't call, don't knock."

Here in Alaska, a friend has this: "Pets welcome; children must be on a leash."

Recently sent a distant cousin, a young lady of 16, a book about women hunting in Alaska. Received a "thank you" note sent from an iPhone.


Signs of the times . .

I imagine most hunting for women in Alaska involves a smartphone these days.



The book is about hunting by women, not hunting for women . .

. . and the author is a personal friend . .

. . eat your heart out . .
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"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
******************
"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."
—John Calvin
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Jesus Thanked by Only 10% When He Gave them Major Medical

Post by monster_gardener »

Marcus wrote:Back in the small, Texas town where we lived, one guy had this note on his front door: "If you didn't call, don't knock."

Here in Alaska, a friend has this: "Pets welcome; children must be on a leash."

Recently sent a distant cousin, a young lady of 16, a book about women hunting in Alaska. Received a "thank you" note sent from an iPhone.


Signs of the times . .
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Marcus.
Recently sent a distant cousin, a young lady of 16, a book about women hunting in Alaska. Received a "thank you" note sent from an iPhone.
IMVHO that is polite if modern.

Am quite happy if I get that.

Have to understand it saves the cost of mailing it: stamp, envelope, etc...

Plus it may be more legible ;)

I did get an old fashioned thank you note recently. Was so impressed that I sent a bonus :lol:

IIRC even Jesus got thanked by only 1 in 10 of lepers healed :shock:
Last edited by monster_gardener on Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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noddy
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Re: Are people getting ruder?

Post by noddy »

hard to say, the balances and judgements have changed so much and on some levels its coarser and cruder with more sex and swearing and on other levels we have the rise of political correctness and hyper sensitivity to sexism and racism.

so id say the mainstream value judgements on rude have changed more than anything else.
ultracrepidarian
Simple Minded

Re: Are people getting ruder?

Post by Simple Minded »

I have to agree with noddy on mainstream values are becoming more sensitive.

Way back in the day, someone saying "I find that offensive!" might well be asked "Why don't you grow up? This is a free country and everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you listen to people you disagree with, you just might learn something."

Now having the emotional sensitivity of a teen age girl experiencing her first period seems to be some red badge of high mindedness or superior sensibility.

Add in the fact that "I find that offensive" is often used as a bludgeon of censorship, and social discourse is great fun.

that reminds me, I heard this one at work the other day. "Ya know, I really like working with Tomas, but when he gets defensive, he really get offensive."

Instant classic!
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