Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Typhoon » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:28 pm

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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Typhoon » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:05 pm

Typhoon wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:

Ad hominem fallacy.
The actual journal the study was published in is a professional, peer reviewed journal.


Peer reviewed does not in any way mean that the claims of the article are correct.

Also, the journal publisher MDPI is considered what is called an open access "predatory publisher" in the academic world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI

In other words, they will publish anything for a fee.

This issue has become a significant problem in academia.

Again, ad hominem fallacy. You are not dealing with the data.


The reality is that life is too short to spend time debunking every conspiracy theory, so the rule of thumb is

"Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof."

However, some people have bothered to dissect the bogus paper in question:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-j-mar ... dia.t6456/

https://www.metabunk.org/claim-chemtrai ... ash.t5691/

There are several simple points with regards to so-called chemtrail geoengineering:

1/ It presumes an understanding of climate and weather far more advanced that what is currently known.

2/ To what end? What exactly is the purpose of undertaking such a massive and expensive project?
What's the point? Why bother?

3/ How can such a massive nefarious project be kept secret? Especially if the goal is to undermine the health of the US citizenry.

There are countless fascinating questions in physics and chemistry, including the highly dynamic non-linear climate, on which one can spend one's time.

Fixation on so-called chemtrails, which are nothing more than clouds and aircraft contrails, to me indicates a lack of knowledge and understanding of such questions and a real and depressing poverty of imagination by the proponents.


Retracted.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Typhoon » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:14 am

Anecdotally, my skepticism also arises from being a sailor.

As a sailor one learns to "read the sky", still a useful skill in this age of satellite weather reports as one never knows when one may find oneself navigating without access to electronics. Combined with a barometer, it is sufficient.

In the US Midwest, I spent a lot of time sailing on one of the Great Lakes, Lake Michigan,
and I never saw anything other than the various types of natural clouds

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/ ... ds_max.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cloud_types

and what are clearly jet contrails

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

The same applies to being on land. However, on water one usually has a clear line of sight to the horizon.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:22 am

Contrails do not form at 4k ft. Per your source, 37k ft is about right. The air must be cold enough to freeze water vapor.

Contrails vanish rapidly and completely. 3x the length of the airplane is about average. They are not clouds. They do not persist longer than skywriting and spread to cover the sky.

Clouds do not come out of airplanes. They do not form geometrical crosshatching.

What kind of cloud is this, Captain Typhoon?

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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Parodite » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:32 am

But what about fog? It's pretty low altitude and persistent. Chemfog?

Usually conspiracies and secret messages come from the above or beyonder. Maybe some arise from the below wanting to remind us of something?
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:12 pm

Parodite wrote:But what about fog? It's pretty low altitude and persistent. Chemfog?

Usually conspiracies and secret messages come from the above or beyonder. Maybe some arise from the below wanting to remind us of something?

No chemfog. You can see it sprayed out of airplanes not on normal flightpaths a couple thosand feet up and it slowly dissipates into a gauzy haze. Fog is a function of dewpoint and temperature, and never comes out of an airplane. Sometimes you see the plane make a slow 180° turn and retrace its path. Not normal pilot behavior.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Parodite » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:28 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Parodite wrote:But what about fog? It's pretty low altitude and persistent. Chemfog?

Usually conspiracies and secret messages come from the above or beyonder. Maybe some arise from the below wanting to remind us of something?

No chemfog. You can see it sprayed out of airplanes not on normal flightpaths a couple thosand feet up and it slowly dissipates into a gauzy haze. Fog is a function of dewpoint and temperature, and never comes out of an airplane. Sometimes you see the plane make a slow 180° turn and retrace its path. Not normal pilot behavior.


I was just kinda kidding. Haven't put my mind much on this issue yet. :)
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Typhoon » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:19 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Contrails do not form at 4k ft. Per your source, 37k ft is about right. The air must be cold enough to freeze water vapor.

Contrails vanish rapidly and completely. 3x the length of the airplane is about average. They are not clouds. They do not persist longer than skywriting and spread to cover the sky.

Clouds do not come out of airplanes. They do not form geometrical crosshatching.

What kind of cloud is this, Captain Typhoon?

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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Typhoon » Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:02 am

Following up on my impression above, a bit of google research informs on how to promote photoshopped so-called chemtrails:

http://www.metabunk.org/photoshopped-ch ... org.t6658/
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:39 am

Typhoon wrote:Following up on my impression above, a bit of google research informs on how to promote photoshopped so-called chemtrails:

http://www.metabunk.org/photoshopped-ch ... org.t6658/

Chemtrails are less prevalent lately, but the next time I see them I'll post my own image.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby NapLajoieonSteroids » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:14 am

I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.

All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.

Anyway, I think I posted a while back about looking for a website of a guy who went to great lengths to prove all of physics fraudulent.

Well, I think I found him, and has he been busy!

I think it's him, he used to have one well organized site focusing on math and sticking it to physics; this new version is schizo-writing across several websites, free (and some not-so-free) ebooks, no math apparently, and oh btw- he disproves science as a whole! The whole edifice has crumbled, we can all go home in our labcoats and roll around in our own filth and hubris. :D I dunno, the guy was a bit more easier to follow years back (or maybe I was crazier years back?) :?

I really think this is the guy, one Peet Schutte of South Africa who says (about physics) :

"I DISCOVERED A MISTAKE IN SCIENCE.
Mass having weight is there, but mass pulling anything closer is a mediaeval superstitious witches tale, a left over of astrology and magic properties promoted by alchemist. Mass can’t pull anything but can only pull the cover over the eyes of those trying to be brilliant but lack the ability to think. In physics it is better not to think and just believe because then those teaching physics do not have to think but only have to believe Newton is correct while never thinking about Newton’s correctness. I am not rejecting the factor of mass, used as a factor in calculating formulas in physics. That by any principle applies but it applies as weight. However I do reject the idea that mass is perceived to have a unexplainable and improvable magical pulling power that is used to establish a force thought to be gravity that pulls all things closer.
Therefore, I reject the notion that the way planets drive around the sun is by the force of gravity formed to the value of their mass and the mass of the Sun, which is then presumed to be driven on conducting of some magical intervening force, where that force is powered by mass. I also reject the idea that objects fall equal in the way the objects fall while yet being contracted by the force to the value of mass.
That notion that mass has magical pulling powers to contract or attract by evoking gravity is all superstitious old wives tales."

from questionablescience.net
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Typhoon » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:39 am

A bit sad.

There are so many open questions in math and physics worthy of energetic investigation.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby NapLajoieonSteroids » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:11 am

Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics! ;)

I don't think it particularly sad his mind focuses where it does instead of on other pursuits.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:52 am

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.

All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.



Agreed. I miss the good ole days when conspiracy theorists were rugged individualists.

It is virtually (pun intended) impossible today to be so much of a wack job that no one will agree with you.

Everybody is so needy in terms of confirmation bias nowadays, that in order to be a rugged individualist, it's almost like you need your own private internet... :o

Gotta go, before Big Brother tracks this post..... ;)
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:57 am

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics! ;)


Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.

Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality? ;)

Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet..... :)
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby NapLajoieonSteroids » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:19 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics! ;)


Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.

Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality? ;)

Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet..... :)


Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.

Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.

All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.



Agreed. I miss the good ole days when conspiracy theorists were raving geniuses.

It is virtually (pun intended) impossible today to be so much of a singular talent that no one will agree with you.

Everybody is so nerdy in terms of confirmation bias nowadays, that in order to be a raving genius, it's almost like you need your own private internet... :o

Gotta go, before Big Rugged Individualist tracks this post..... ;)


You've been seeing rugged individuals anywhere and everywhere huh? Rugged individuals on the brain, eh?

Don't worry about it- I fixed your above post.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:21 pm

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics! ;)


Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.

Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality? ;)

Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet..... :)


Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.


good point. how exactly does that make you feel.....?
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby NapLajoieonSteroids » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:27 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics! ;)


Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.

Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality? ;)

Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet..... :)


Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.


good point. how exactly does that make you feel.....?


Like there is a good book/money-making opportunity, the "....that THEY don't want you to know about" series:

"The Physics that THEY don't want you to know about."

"The Algebra that THEY don't want you to know about."

"The Business Management THEY don't want you to know about."

This series would write itself.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:40 pm

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics! ;)


Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.

Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality? ;)

Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet..... :)


Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.

Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.

All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.



Agreed. I miss the good ole days when conspiracy theorists were raving geniuses.

It is virtually (pun intended) impossible today to be so much of a singular talent that no one will agree with you.

Everybody is so nerdy in terms of confirmation bias nowadays, that in order to be a raving genius, it's almost like you need your own private internet... :o

Gotta go, before Big Rugged Individualist tracks this post..... ;)


You've been seeing rugged individuals anywhere and everywhere huh? Rugged individuals on the brain, eh?

Don't worry about it- I fixed your above post.


it's good to know that while all Big Brothers are control freaks, they're not all mean and nasty.

Some are looking out for us little guys (Rugged Snowflakes).

thanks! ;)
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:41 pm

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Like there is a good book/money-making opportunity, the "....that THEY don't want you to know about" series:

"The Physics that THEY don't want you to know about."

"The Algebra that THEY don't want you to know about."

"The Business Management THEY don't want you to know about."

This series would write itself.


Brilliant. It would dwarf the "_____ for idiots" book series in terms of cash flow.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby YMix » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:10 am

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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby noddy » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:23 am

its those damn global warming types, reducing the precious air and replacing it with empty calories.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Simple Minded » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:07 am

noddy wrote:its those damn global warming types, reducing the precious air and replacing it with empty calories.


yer confusing cause and effect. more empty calories, people get fatter, and exhale more CO2, and flatulate more methane.

There are many computer models that prove it.

Science. It's not for everyone. apparently.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby noddy » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:17 am

you claim to know the ways of science!

if someone is consuming fatty sugars they arent breathing, t you cant eat and breathe at the same time.

thusly, more fatty sugars, less c02, its obvious.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes

Postby Simple Minded » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:44 am

garbage in, garbage out.

same for the human digestive system as computer BIOS...... ;)

on a practical side, and anyone can play AGW scientist and test this hypothecary;

no one wants to sit next to a fat person unless it is cold and windy outside.

no one wants to sit next to a fat person on a crowded bus or in a crowded plane when it is hot. :P
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