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Simple Minded

Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:Deep State? Had to google it.

The military/industrial/financial/bureaucracy complex is very well entrenched across the two party lines.

It's all been talk and wishful thinking until now. Starting today, er, tomorrow [EST] we will begin to see what the reality will be.
What the reality will be to who?

:?
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

The Brits deal with it differently. They have the civil service and then elected government, and a wall of separation. This relationship was brilliantly illustrated in the classic Yes, Minister series from long ago. Perhaps total issues can chime in if he's watching.

Americans have a different concept, we think all the government should be accountable to elected officials, all elected officials accountable to the people. However realpolitic has created what liberals used to call the Deep State. Now they love the Deep State lol.

The founding principles of America are against a Deep State concept, but the founders also realized that parasites are attracted to government and put in as many checks and balances as they could think up. But the ultimate check is the people themselves, and we're seeing the people rise up against the Deep State along with everything else. Notice only right wing parties will ever actually do it.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Tears of the Deep State.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/18/joe-bide ... davos.html
The gist of his speech was simple: At a time of "uncertainty" we must double down on the values that made Western democracies great, and not allow the "liberal world order" to be torn apart by destructive forces.

Biden went after Russian President Vladimir Putin by name, saying he is using "every tool" in his power to whittle away the European project, and undermine Western democracies. Biden accused Putin of wanting to "roll back decades of progress."
Progress for who?
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by noddy »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Beating the deep state may be easier than anyone ever imagined.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/boom- ... le/2612037#!
Boom: Trump eyes 10% spending cuts, 20% slash of federal workers

Making good on a promise to slash government, President-elect Trump has asked his incoming team to pursue spending and staffing cuts.

Insiders said that the spending reductions in some departments could go as high as 10 percent and staff cuts to 20 percent, numbers that would rock Washington if he follows through.
we had that happen here a decade or so ago and the buggers just re-employed their friends as contractors.

it takes a long term concerted effort.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Typhoon »

noddy wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Beating the deep state may be easier than anyone ever imagined.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/boom- ... le/2612037#!
Boom: Trump eyes 10% spending cuts, 20% slash of federal workers

Making good on a promise to slash government, President-elect Trump has asked his incoming team to pursue spending and staffing cuts.

Insiders said that the spending reductions in some departments could go as high as 10 percent and staff cuts to 20 percent, numbers that would rock Washington if he follows through.
we had that happen here a decade or so ago and the buggers just re-employed their friends as contractors.

it takes a long term concerted effort.
In Japan, it is more formalized. Amakudari or "descent from heaven" is the name given to the widespread practice of senior govt bureaucrats assuming director type positions at corporations after retirement. Often in the same corporations that they were supposed to oversee/regulate.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by noddy »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving ... olitics%29

yes, we all seem to have that one.

Australia[edit]
In Australia, this is of significant public debate as many state leaders have become private consultants for corporations. There is no legislation against doing so.

France[edit]
A law in the penal code of France governing public officials who move between the public and private sectors[3] requires a three-year wait between working in the government and taking a job in the private sector.

Hong Kong[edit]
The appointment of Leung Chin-man as executive director of New World China Land in 2008 led to much controversy. Leung was previously a senior civil servant and administrative officer in charge of lands. His appointment as an executive director of a subsidiary of a land developer led to allegations of collusion of interests and delayed interests. He resigned after two weeks, and the territory's Legislative Council had, for years, an inquiry into the matter.

Japan[edit]
Amakudari (天下り amakudari?, "descent from heaven") is the institutionalized practice where Japanese senior bureaucrats retire to high-profile positions in the private and public sectors. The practice was increasingly viewed as corrupt and a drag on unfastening the ties between private sector and state which prevent economic and political reforms.

In April 2007, a law to phase out amakudari prohibits ministries from attempting to place bureaucrats in industry with implementation in 2009. However, the law also removed a two-year ban that prevented retiring officials from taking jobs with companies with which they had official dealings during the five years before retirement.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Typhoon »

Deep State, indeed.

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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

noddy wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Beating the deep state may be easier than anyone ever imagined.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/boom- ... le/2612037#!
Boom: Trump eyes 10% spending cuts, 20% slash of federal workers

Making good on a promise to slash government, President-elect Trump has asked his incoming team to pursue spending and staffing cuts.

Insiders said that the spending reductions in some departments could go as high as 10 percent and staff cuts to 20 percent, numbers that would rock Washington if he follows through.
we had that happen here a decade or so ago and the buggers just re-employed their friends as contractors.

it takes a long term concerted effort.
And some discipline.

It is a road to ruin and an easily avoidable one, as there are countless examples throughout history of empires crumbling because a generation of people put in charge decide to start stealing cookies from the cookie jar. It always get out of hand as sociological corruption is a very pernicious threat hard to combat.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by noddy »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
noddy wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Beating the deep state may be easier than anyone ever imagined.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/boom- ... le/2612037#!
Boom: Trump eyes 10% spending cuts, 20% slash of federal workers

Making good on a promise to slash government, President-elect Trump has asked his incoming team to pursue spending and staffing cuts.

Insiders said that the spending reductions in some departments could go as high as 10 percent and staff cuts to 20 percent, numbers that would rock Washington if he follows through.
we had that happen here a decade or so ago and the buggers just re-employed their friends as contractors.

it takes a long term concerted effort.
And some discipline.

It is a road to ruin and an easily avoidable one, as there are countless examples throughout history of empires crumbling because a generation of people put in charge decide to start stealing cookies from the cookie jar. It always get out of hand as sociological corruption is a very pernicious threat hard to combat.
flushing 2 or 3 generations from the system is nigh on impossible.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Torchwood »

So you prefer the Russian Deep State to the US one, do you, Mr.P?

The CIA being on the truthful, I mean liberal, side is actually quite amusing. Edgar Hoover must be spinning in his grave.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Lol the red scare this time is confined to a tiny pocket in DC and NY. The rest of us are barely aware, other than the fact zero evidence has been presented for their wild conspiracies.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Trump will win.
Four top career officials at the State Department left the same day Secretary of State-designate Rex Tillerson paid a visit to Foggy Bottom to introduce himself, officials said Thursday.

The four — including Patrick Kennedy, State’s long-time undersecretary for management, who had been with the department since 1973 — and the others left on Wednesday.

“As is standard with every transition, the outgoing administration, in coordination with the incoming one, requested all politically appointed officers submit letters of resignation,” acting State Department spokesman Mark Toner said.
http://nypost.com/2017/01/26/senior-sta ... epartment/
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Torchwood wrote:So you prefer the Russian Deep State to the US one, do you, Mr.P?

The CIA being on the truthful, I mean liberal, side is actually quite amusing. Edgar Hoover must be spinning in his grave.
Why would Edgar Hoover be spinning in his grave over the CIA? He was in charge of the FBI.

You gotta aim the snark a lot better than that- at least hit a target. :P
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

The Deep State certainly is divided along the red-blue color line. Each organization has a corporate mission which attracts certain characters and dispositions and shaped by years of bureaucratic favoritism and political appointments. The blue side holds more dept. than the red, and has since FDR.

The FBI has been a hold-out for the red side, while the CIA is reliably blue. If the latter wasn't, what would their purpose be? They are organized to spy on other nation-states and the more international relations there are, the more dependent the US gov't becomes to them. The people who are attracted to work in such an organization will naturally be those whose thinking leans towards the cosmopolitan or. at the very least, are interested in global missions. Furthermore, the greatest human-asset the CIA possesses is access to [and cooperation with] dissidents and opposition to their targets. Think back to the Cold War: the CIA had scores of Trotskyites (and other dissident communist/socialists) on the payroll because these were people who *hated* the Stalin and post-Stalin regimes more than your avg. capitalist.

So the people attracted to the job would be cosmopolitan minded individuals who can tolerate, encourage and sympathize with dissident groups against the present order. These are blue state people through and through.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Not for long.
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Re: Trump vs Deep State

Post by Mr. Perfect »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Torchwood wrote:So you prefer the Russian Deep State to the US one, do you, Mr.P?

The CIA being on the truthful, I mean liberal, side is actually quite amusing. Edgar Hoover must be spinning in his grave.
Why would Edgar Hoover be spinning in his grave over the CIA? He was in charge of the FBI.

You gotta aim the snark a lot better than that- at least hit a target. :P
To be fair he was virulently anti communist. Wrote a book or two on the subject. OTOH he was anti globalist so like Trump he may have seen an ally in Putin.
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Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


Calling Peter Thiel :lol:

multiple sources said that next on Trump’s hit list are a series of protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered workers. They were put in place by the Obama administration, and have been irking some conservatives ever since.

..

"It's bad," said one tech player who has been read the draft of the order, which is expected to be issued by Trump soon.

Right now, it includes overturning a directive that bars discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity in the federal workforce and those who contract with the government.

That might mean anything, such as a federal employee refusing to serve a gay person due to a religious objection. (Is my postman going to refuse to deliver my mail? — thankfully no, since I live in San Francisco’s Castro neighborhood, which I like to call alternative facts to Trump’s America.)

Sound familiar? That's because our new vice president, Mike Pence, shoved through this same kind of awful law when he was governor of Indiana, essentially trying to legalize discrimination against gays by arguing that religious liberties were paramount.


Reminds me of Ahmadinejat .. poor guy got unjust treatment :lol: .. Ahmadinejat should be included among Trump advisers.

MP, you have the mike

.
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Lol fake news.
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


ACLU

In a typical year, the American Civil Liberties Union gets about $4 million in online donations.

But over this past weekend, the organization received $24.1 million from online donors, six times what it normally receives in a whole year . .

.
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Lol, Jill Stein also raised much money. Did you see how that turned out
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.
Mr. Perfect wrote:Lol, Jill Stein also raised much money. Did you see how that turned out
very sad, indeed

Seems you guys have no respect for ACLU

Civil Liberty is the pillar holding America upright

What a sad ending, MP, what a sad finale

.
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Lol ACLU means "America communist leftist Union". Joe had enough of that. Communism and leftism is about government slavery and force. Joe had enough. No more leftists.
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Doc »

I was talking to a kid yesterday Who Ironically is Iranian Americans She was really angry about Trump repeating lie after lie about Trump and Immigrants. After a little while it turned out her mother, a naturalized citizen had gone to see family in Iran. Someone had told her that Trump wasn't going to let her mother return to the US. These anti-Trump folks are really cynical bastards that will do anything to destabilize this government of a democratically elected POTUS

Image
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Calling Peter Thiel :lol:

multiple sources said that next on Trump’s hit list are a series of protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered workers. They were put in place by the Obama administration, and have been irking some conservatives ever since.

..

"It's bad," said one tech player who has been read the draft of the order, which is expected to be issued by Trump soon.

Right now, it includes overturning a directive that bars discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity in the federal workforce and those who contract with the government.

That might mean anything, such as a federal employee refusing to serve a gay person due to a religious objection. (Is my postman going to refuse to deliver my mail? — thankfully no, since I live in San Francisco’s Castro neighborhood, which I like to call alternative facts to Trump’s America.)

Sound familiar? That's because our new vice president, Mike Pence, shoved through this same kind of awful law when he was governor of Indiana, essentially trying to legalize discrimination against gays by arguing that religious liberties were paramount.


Reminds me of Ahmadinejat .. poor guy got unjust treatment :lol: .. Ahmadinejat should be included among Trump advisers.

MP, you have the mike

.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... -workplace
White House: Trump will enforce LGBTQ workplace protections
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Trump is considering a reversal of LGBT protections

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote:.

I was talking to a kid yesterday Who Ironically is Iranian Americans She was really angry about Trump repeating lie after lie about Trump and Immigrants. After a little while it turned out her mother, a naturalized citizen had gone to see family in Iran. Someone had told her that Trump wasn't going to let her mother return to the US. These anti-Trump folks are really cynical bastards that will do anything to destabilize this government of a democratically elected POTUS

.

Chicago Tribune

He’s a bariatric surgeon with a large network of colleagues, patients and friends; he's married to an American woman and together they're the parents of three American-born children; and above all, he himself has dual citizenship in Iran and the United States and he has lived in the Chicago area for nearly four decades.

..

.. visiting his 88-year-old mother ..

..

"It’s really nice getting to the U.S., because when you come through the U.S., you know what they tell you? They just look at your passport and they say, ‘Welcome home, sir.’"

Something was different this time.

..

"Typically (customs agents) are just wonderful in Chicago and I’m very proud of that," Heydari said. "They were still extremely nice and I felt they were even somewhat apologetic. That they did not feel comfortable asking these questions but they had to because the order comes from above."

..

Through the recent visits to Iran this past decade, Heydari said he's noticed how much life has improved for average Iranians.

It was a surreal feeling speaking to his taxi driver, for example, about how freedoms are expanding in Iran but being taken away in the United States.

..

"Things like this happened slowly there as well, little rights were taken away in the name of security. I'm worried this is just the beginning here," he said. "It does not surprise me that this happens in countries that have no human rights, like North Korea. It just surprises me that it's happened in the United States."

Heydari said he doesn't practice any religion and questioned whether the seven countries were selected simply because they are majority Muslim, and questioned why a country such as Saudi Arabia would be left off the list if this is strictly for safety's sake, since many of the terrorists in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks were from Saudi Arabia.

"I understand when they say it's about security, of course, but it's hard when it happens to you. How do they know what religion I am? They don't. So what will they get wrong about you and what price will you have to pay for it?"

..

"The United States is the greatest country in the world with regards to many things – particularly our freedoms – and if we have started enacting such oppressive laws in this country, how will we be viewed by other countries?" Heydari asked. "You can’t have the greatest country in the world go down this path."

.

Doc, you should be happy, cheer Az, for AZ pointing all this to you .. am sure you want America to be great again, do you remember when it was against the law a policeman asking "where you coming from" ? .. now American citizens have to endure what this American bariatric surgeon had to endure.

What makes America great is not bullying VW to built car in US and not in Mexico (doing that openly on TV), but back to American value and greatness of 1950's & 60's.

Is it not shameful to hear from an American bariatric surgeon that Iran now becoming freer than America ?

You should join AZ pointing to damage all this inflicting to American "world standing" .. imagine Trump now visiting oversea world conferences standing next to Philippine, Indonesia, India, China, Brazil, Merkel, May, Hollande, etc leaders, having lost the moral high ground .. he no leader of free world, maybe standing next to Rodrigo Duterte.

Why ? America spent trillions of Dollars and so much sacrifice to show real American values, and now this.

If American intention is confronting our beloved Persia, this the silliest approach .. now, publicly, Europe has sided with Iran, EU foreign minister Federica Mogherini confirmed EU is with Iran :

We will stand by Iran deal, says EU foreign affairs chief

mad mullahs winning by pulling Europe away from America .. China, Russia, 3rd world already on Iranian side .. even May might flip .. mad mullahs achieved diplomatic victory.

Trump is not knowledgable about world, his team absolute illiterate in world affaires, his friends "Giuliani & Bolton" weirdos .. this could lead to disaster.

My senses says, Trump played by Pat Robertson folks .. the RUPTURE people .. these people not even Christian in sense of Jesus.

America in a crisis .. dramatically divided, dramatically armed .. any wise president must unite America, Trump doubling down on wounds

Clash of civilization, fighting Islam , same conspiracy as fighting communism was .. just to fool Joe

.
Last edited by Heracleum Persicum on Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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