Bad Trip Good Trip

[Parodite]

Mama Nature talks with Leo, who returned from a massive month long 5MeO-DMT experiment.
Later Jesus joins and gives his take on the matter.

*****************************************************************************

MN: I'm so happy you finally took a real effort to dive deeper into your God-being. What did 5MeO reveal to you?

L: Of course I used 5MeO before, but wanted to go deeper. There probably isn't a floor there I know, no deepest point but I just wanted more truth revealed about me being God!

MN: Did you find more truth?

L: Definitely! I reached levels of consciousness I never had before which is why I understood that probably very few people, if any at all, came to that point. That probably none of my listeners know what I'm talking about because they still are too much in that slumber. But I want to give them hope pointing the way forward, pave the way!

MN: But what about people who are skeptical and say that you just took some chemical that messes with your brain, creating a mere illusion of divine non-duality and stuff... as incredible, strong and convincing it may be compared to the effect of other hallucinogenic substances. Let alone compared to daily life without hallucinogenic molecules. Which apparently you find boring if not very disappointing.

L: I know, but they don't understand that everything is imaginary. Another instance of infinite conscious creation at work which is God which is me. I discovered there is no physical brain so the issue doesn't bother me anymore.

MN: So the physical brain is more like a dream to you? The correlates between what's happening in the brain and what you experience are also imaginary? Are you dreaming a dream about how you dream and why you dream?

L: I am God dreaming his own reality!

MN: I'm not sure Dad is happy with you dreaming you are God, but I don't mind. I'm usually just entertained by males struggling for the throne and how they try to keep it once they think they have it. Fending off competitors, creating stories in which they will sit on it forever and ever etc. But that dream always pops and it is kinda sad to watch.

"To reach the top" is a necessary drive for progress. There is no top to reach nor a throne to sit on however. What matters is that it makes you move and not sit on the couch all day. Your challenge is moving to a place where there is no there there. No center, no circumference. No me no you. No beginning no end. Where words like "timeless" or "infinite" are utterly meaningless and the distinction between life and death completely arbitrary. Are you sure 5MeO brought you to that holy place?

L: I experienced love and total understanding in a non-dualistic way. After my ego popped and was no longer in the way. So I like to believe that to be true, yes!

MN: But now, without 5MeO running in your system, you are back into that different dream where you are you, with a specific body and a physical brain even, right?

L: Of course. But I embrace it now as just another creation of infinite consciousness God which is me!

MN: Maybe you want to have a chat with your brother Jesus about all this. I mean he didn't use 5MeO, but he did really die and knows what it is like. And what happens afterwards.

Jesus, are you there, can you come?!? I know you are eavesdropping behind that door.

J entering: Sorry Mom. I just heard you two talk and couldn't resist but didn't want to bother anyone. Hi Leo! Long time no see.

L: Hi Jesus! Bro, I think I finally understand what you have been talking about all that time!

J: Yea it's great we can finally talk a bit! There is one thing I want to you to understand first.

L: Tell me your story J. Been waiting for this a long time!!

J: Well, for what felt like an eternity I lived in a reality-space that is indeed somewhat similar to what 5MeO showed you but is also totally different. Only a word, it was called "Heaven". 5MeO shows you but a shadow. It was my reality though and I was used to it like forever. I was totally One with it 24/7. Time never existed. It was a perfect comfort-zone without disruptions.

But then it was decided - and I still don't exactly know why or how - that I should consume some hallucinogenic substance they nicknamed Holy Spirit that sent me on an imaginary trip to a non-existing planet Earth. There it was as-if I experienced human life, that of a man called Jesus who was on a mission.

I suffered a lot there, because I couldn't really distinguish between me and the other. The worst suffering is imaginary pain! My non-dual state still held firm during that psychedelic trip on "earth". I could only relieve myself from agony by relieving others from their pain. It was almost unbearable and I couldn't do as much as I wanted. I felt like a parent seeing his own children being slowly tortured to death in front of his own eyes while being totally powerless. But I had a few tricks on my sleeve, some occasional magic helped.

Eventually I experienced human death myself, the pain and agony were terrible to be honest. I'm still baffled by how a delusion can feel so real and painful! My death was later celebrated as a victory, which was a good thing.

Overall it really was a bad trip, so I stayed clean from Holy Spirit ever since. But I also do remember the amazing virtual reality of human sensory experience. The colors, shapes, the beauty of structure and function in the cosmos, the sounds and smells. How everything appeared to move through time in ever changing patterns. Of having thoughts and feelings, memories and even dreams! Of endless questions without answers. The longing for a better world that I could see in everybody, but with death waiting for them in the end without exceptions. So unfair! It was not possible not to feel for them. Those humans have to live in Heaven and Hell at the same time! It produced wonderful fireworks with real drama and pure comedy. Too noisy for me though.

Sorry Leo, Mom, just talking about these things, those memories... it is too much again. Virtual PTSD takes an eternity to heal it seems. I'm off to bed again!

MN: Nite nite J-love!

L: Thanks Jesus. Take care bro! Don't forget: nothing is really real so there is nothing to worry about!

J: Thanks Leo for the reminder. I keep forgetting those things because of this damn PTSD!

[Typhoon]

A literature search on PubMed turned up nearly nada on 5-MeO-DMT.
Next to nothing is known about it.

J Psychopharmacol [2018] | The epidemiology of 5-methoxy- N, N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) use: Benefits, consequences, patterns of use, subjective effects, and reasons for consumption.

Conclusion. Findings suggest that 5-MeO-DMT is used infrequently, predominantly for spiritual exploration, has low potential for addiction, and might have psychotherapeutic effects. Future research should examine the safety and pharmacokinetics of 5-MeO-DMT administration in humans using rigorous experimental designs.

[Parodite]

Thanks for the link. Would be great if more research is done on those tryptamines and some medical/therapeutic use can be developed.

I just watched a number of videos where people report on it afterwards and some while they take it like this one:

e-Tsc5aL1G4

There are also some that look likea very bad trip:

s_rE_-pJVGE

What seems to me happening is that there is always the "feel like dying" episode with a strong stress/anxiety/panic response, but that the "loss of self" that follows means that this fight/flight/fear/aggression system , i.e. the "biological ago", goes into standby mode which makes everything nice, warm, welcoming and beautiful (and spectacular during the dmt experience); the environment is in no way threatening anymore. Any pre-existing anxiety disorder is then also on standby. The therapeutic effect may simply be that it created a new (or revived an old ..) memory of your life without stress and anxiety. It could re-activate neuro-physiological modes of "self-confidence" with a childlike indifference to real or imagined danger.

[Simple Minded]

A literature search on PubMed turned up nearly nada on 5-MeO-DMT.
Next to nothing is known about it.

J Psychopharmacol [2018] | The epidemiology of 5-methoxy- N, N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) use: Benefits, consequences, patterns of use, subjective effects, and reasons for consumption.

Conclusion. Findings suggest that 5-MeO-DMT is used infrequently, predominantly for spiritual exploration, has low potential for addiction, and might have psychotherapeutic effects. Future research should examine the safety and pharmacokinetics of 5-MeO-DMT administration in humans using rigorous experimental designs.

One of the Ancient Aliens episodes discussed it, and ancient references to it being used as a communication conduit to the gods/ET's. Similar to Shamanism. Joe Rogen also discussed it.

Could be a real "trip."

[Simple Minded]

Thanks for the link. Would be great if more research is done on those tryptamines and some medical/therapeutic use can be developed.

I just watched a number of videos where people report on it afterwards and some while they take it like this one:

e-Tsc5aL1G4

There are also some that look likea very bad trip:

s_rE_-pJVGE

What seems to me happening is that there is always the "feel like dying" episode with a strong stress/anxiety/panic response, but that the "loss of self" that follows means that this fight/flight/fear/aggression system , i.e. the "biological ago", goes into standby mode which makes everything nice, warm, welcoming and beautiful (and spectacular during the dmt experience); the environment is in no way threatening anymore. Any pre-existing anxiety disorder is then also on standby. The therapeutic effect may simply be that it created a new (or revived an old ..) memory of your life without stress and anxiety. It could re-activate neuro-physiological modes of "self-confidence" with a childlike indifference to real or imagined danger.

Parodite,

You might enjoy the series of books by Carlos Castenada. Read them in chronological order. They read like a lot of your philosophical musings.

[Simple Minded]

Thanks for the link. Would be great if more research is done on those tryptamines and some medical/therapeutic use can be developed.

I just watched a number of videos where people report on it afterwards and some while they take it like this one:

e-Tsc5aL1G4

There are also some that look likea very bad trip:

s_rE_-pJVGE

What seems to me happening is that there is always the "feel like dying" episode with a strong stress/anxiety/panic response, but that the "loss of self" that follows means that this fight/flight/fear/aggression system , i.e. the "biological ago", goes into standby mode which makes everything nice, warm, welcoming and beautiful (and spectacular during the dmt experience); the environment is in no way threatening anymore. Any pre-existing anxiety disorder is then also on standby. The therapeutic effect may simply be that it created a new (or revived an old ..) memory of your life without stress and anxiety. It could re-activate neuro-physiological modes of "self-confidence" with a childlike indifference to real or imagined danger.

Parodite,

You might enjoy the series of books by Carlos Castenada. Read them in chronological order. They read like a lot of your philosophical musings.

The longer video sounds like a very Buddhist experience, over coming attachments, etc.

Once we get past our preferred labeling and foci, who knows what is out there?

[noddy]

having been involved in some aspects of all this a few lifetimes ago, it amounts to a midlife/existential crisis event, so you better be comfortable with yourself.

Not all people can look at themselves from the outside perspective and come out unscathed - some of us are only held together by avoiding the mirror at all costs!

[Parodite]

Parodite,

You might enjoy the series of books by Carlos Castenada. Read them in chronological order. They read like a lot of your philosophical musings.

I read The Lessons of Don Juan in my 20-ies and thought it was cool. Especially remember where the shaman assigns him during a peyote trip to find "his perfect place". The result being he couldn't find that perfect spot and reporting that back to the shaman, who then asked what happened. Replying that he just got too exhausted and had to give up, putting his head on a certain stone and fall asleep. To which the shaman said: "Ah, so you did find it in the end." Always thought this was so funny and with a wisdom in there.

I'm off reading books me bad.

[Parodite]

having been involved in some aspects of all this a few lifetimes ago, it amounts to a midlife/existential crisis event, so you better be comfortable with yourself.

Not all people can look at themselves from the outside perspective and come out unscathed - some of us are only held together by avoiding the mirror at all costs!

I'm fascinated by these hallucinogenic experiences. A tip to the hat to those who dare experimenting. Too chicken myself for that. My ego is way too big and therefor a very bad trip very likely Ordinary experience I find already xtrmly awesome, overwhelming and way too ineffable. Not going crazy is normal maintenance. But maybe (crazy&absurd) X (crazy&absurd) kind off resets a few things.

[Parodite]

Martin Ball I find worth listening to re 5MEO-DMT.

Here he explains himself:
Martin W. Ball - Pt. 1 of 2

Martin W. Ball - Pt 2 of 2

Here he gets an EEG scan during a 5MEO-DMT trip:
5-MeO-DMT EEG Scan with Martin Ball

The subjective 1st person spiritual narratives people weave around such experiences are interesting in and of themselves, but even more fascinating is the 3rd person viewpoint of science looking at what happens in the brain. The EEG results show that neurological storms of gamma waves travel through different brain areas during the trip, where at the end only moderate brain activity in the back remains. Sort of a factory reset? (If lucky and no BSOD occurs that requires a fresh install or even new hardware - re-incarnation required! Or perhaps a nasty back-up and restore feature that survived puts you back in the place where you started. So nothing changed with only more fancy stories to tell feeding on eroding bleach-bit memories.)