Dangerously Divided America

[Typhoon]

Disregarding the above facile bullshit, this is what is happening:

Violent pro-Trump mob storms US Capitol

Seems like the media has discovered a new word. 'Violent'. How did the violence compare to the riots in American cities last summer? The media seems not to have known that word back then, or at least I never heard them use it.

Grow up.

As Gramma would say "That's the pot calling the kettle black!"

Good advice kmich, you should heed it yourself!!

Well, two wrongs don't make a right.

The BLM/Antifa violence - looting, arson, and murder - even if it was studiously ignored by the mainstream media along with the blatant hypocrisy of some politicians does not justify the rioting at the US capital.

The structural problem is the manner in which US elections are conducted. A return to verifiable paper only ballots with mail-in only for overseas citizens and independent election scrutineers would help.

[Apollonius]

Disregarding the above facile bullshit, this is what is happening:

Violent pro-Trump mob storms US Capitol

Seems like the media has discovered a new word. 'Violent'. How did the violence compare to the riots in American cities last summer? The media seems not to have known that word back then, or at least I never heard them use it.

Grow up.

As Gramma would say "That's the pot calling the kettle black!"

Good advice kmich, you should heed it yourself!!

Well, two wrongs don't make a right.

True. No matter what the frustrations, this was a bad decision.

The BLM/Antifa violence - looting, arson, and murder - even if it was studiously ignored by the mainstream media along with the blatant hypocrisy of some politicians does not justify the rioting at the US capital.

The structural problem is the manner in which US elections are conducted. A return to verifiable paper only ballots with mail-in only for overseas citizens and independent election scrutineers would help.

Yes. I posted an editorial in The Spectator about this:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4071&p=149735&hilit=voting#p149735


Unfortunately too many people are not interested in regularized voting procedures.

[Zack Morris]

i thought these where all the depressing oxy addicted shithole whitebread places, how does that work for all the big progressive cities and the BLM problems ?

Parroting Mr. Perfect, I see. Repeatedly debunked but your opinion hasn't changed in years. Intellectual ossification has taken hold of this forum.

You can begin arriving at the answer by considering why private sector companies -- mostly headquartered in urban areas -- have become so introspective of their hiring procedures and diversity training?

[Zack Morris]

Unfortunately too many people are not interested in regularized voting procedures.

Regularized voting procedures are fine so long as they are not rigged to exclude minorities. What happened in Georgia is beautiful: voter suppression made it appear to be a red state but thanks to the efforts of Stacey Abrams, who was unfairly denied the governorship, the Georgia vote more accurately represents its population now. Thorough scrutiny by the GOP has yielded no evidence whatsoever of any sort of meaningful fraud. No multiple-voters. No dead voters. Zip.

How many more seemingly "red" districts and states will flip to blue once blatant GOP voter fraud is abolished? I predict a lot. Real Americans are waking up and taking their country back.

[Zack Morris]

The BLM/Antifa violence - looting, arson, and murder - even if it was studiously ignored by the mainstream media along with the blatant hypocrisy of some politicians does not justify the rioting at the US capital.

False. CNN / MSNBC / Fox played all summer on TV here at home. All three channels showed footage of the damage and there was plenty of debate about the implications for coronavirus spread. Thankfully, although far from perfect, the BLM protests tended to exhibit higher mask usage. The scale of the protests, if anything, was understated by the media. Coast-to-coast daylight protests were absolutely staggering, with pockets of isolated rioting and looting following in the evening hours.

[Zack Morris]

You're advocating for a utopia.

How far from the Western intellectual tradition you have strayed when you argue that outlawing the erection of barriers to disadvantage entire groups of people you dislike is "utopian".

First of all, forgive me for saying so but people like you are typically hypocrites. You have your own set of people you won't associate or do business with, for example people who believe the wrong things, eat the wrong things, listen to the wrong things, speak the wrong things.

I won't befriend everyone. But I have never advocated for or taken any action to exclude any group of people from being able to shop, eat, live, travel, or go to school where they want.

I know that's not what you mean. You are upset that unrepentant trouble makers and instigators are being individually ejected from social media platforms. Nobody is being discriminated against based on their group identity. They are violating terms of conduct. And these codes of conduct aren't crafted simply to exclude people for the sake of exclusion, but to moderate the core interaction/service the platforms provide.

A restaurant can eject you for poor behavior. It can also eject you for displaying threatening political insignia. This has nothing to do with freedom of association and you know it.

You don't even believe in your utopia. You're planning on leaving once things get really bad. Some of us don't have that option: too old maybe or attached to a community. If you have no deep connections or loyalties you're only interest is likely to be money and power.

Or my interests are intellectual.

[Doc]

i thought these where all the depressing oxy addicted shithole whitebread places, how does that work for all the big progressive cities and the BLM problems ?

Parroting Mr. Perfect, I see. Repeatedly debunked but your opinion hasn't changed in years. Intellectual ossification has taken hold of this forum.

You can begin arriving at the answer by considering why private sector companies -- mostly headquartered in urban areas -- have become so introspective of their hiring procedures and diversity training?

That must be why so many company's are leaving large left wing urban areas -- Diversity of thought....

g5sbmslUetk

BTW Musk today became the richest man in the world. Must be something in the Texas water

[Zack Morris]

BTW Musk today became the richest man in the world. Must be something in the Texas water

You ever used any of his products?

[Doc]

BTW Musk today became the richest man in the world. Must be something in the Texas water

You ever used any of his products?

You mean the richest individual person in the world? Soon to be the richest person on Mar as well?

Have you ever used Wall street financial products ? Have you ever directly invested in any business activity hands on?

Have you ever lived in Seattle? I see that in Seattle downtown businesses can't get insurance and they now(The ones that are still in business anyway) are hiring their own security because local government won't provide it.

[Typhoon]

The BLM/Antifa violence - looting, arson, and murder - even if it was studiously ignored by the mainstream media along with the blatant hypocrisy of some politicians does not justify the rioting at the US capital.

False. CNN / MSNBC / Fox played all summer on TV here at home. All three channels showed footage of the damage and there was plenty of debate about the implications for coronavirus spread. Thankfully, although far from perfect, the BLM protests tended to exhibit higher mask usage. The scale of the protests, if anything, was understated by the media. Coast-to-coast daylight protests were absolutely staggering, with pockets of isolated rioting and looting following in the evening hours.

Indeed.

CNN_Mostly_Peaceful_arson_reporting_c0-0-929-542_s885x516.jpg (56.8 KiB) Viewed 11497 times

[Apollonius]

You're advocating for a utopia.

How far from the Western intellectual tradition you have strayed when you argue that outlawing the erection of barriers to disadvantage entire groups of people you dislike is "utopian".

Unlike you, Zack, I believe local residents have at least some right to how their community develops.


Also, in terms of Western Civilization, it may surprise you to learn that 'racism' is not among the Seven Deadly Sins.

First of all, forgive me for saying so but people like you are typically hypocrites. You have your own set of people you won't associate or do business with, for example people who believe the wrong things, eat the wrong things, listen to the wrong things, speak the wrong things.

I won't befriend everyone. But I have never advocated for or taken any action to exclude any group of people from being able to shop, eat, live, travel, or go to school where they want.

I know that's not what you mean. You are upset that unrepentant trouble makers and instigators are being individually ejected from social media platforms. Nobody is being discriminated against based on their group identity. They are violating terms of conduct. And these codes of conduct aren't crafted simply to exclude people for the sake of exclusion, but to moderate the core interaction/service the platforms provide.

A restaurant can eject you for poor behavior. It can also eject you for displaying threatening political insignia. This has nothing to do with freedom of association and you know it.

Well, no. Many examples prove you wrong. Blacks (especially) cannot be ejected from school for disruptive behaviour. Recently I posted about 'spirit murder', which is what teachers promoting critical race theory claim white people are doing to blacks. It's a bit jarring to hear of 'spirits' from the Left, but as long as these people want to bring it up, isn't that exactly what schools, the media, and politicians are subjecting white kids (and now Asian kids as well) to? Spirit murder. Or to put into secular terms: Distortions and outright lies.


In my personal interactions I'm probably less discriminating than you. I'm even friendly with my own relatives.

You don't even believe in your utopia. You're planning on leaving once things get really bad. Some of us don't have that option: too old maybe or attached to a community. If you have no deep connections or loyalties you're only interest is likely to be money and power.

Or my interests are intellectual.

If you're watching those TV channels you mentioned (that probably also includes Fox) as much as you tell us, forgive me for being sceptical.

[Simple Minded]

On the plus side, the politicians who ignored riots all year, including a few who claimed the riots were myths, have also learned a new word along side the media. "Violent!"

Screams false flag to me. Let the trouble makers gain access to the Capitol building so you can posture about it for the next few weeks.

Democrats, Republicans, MAGA people, Antifa, BLM..... so many competitors screaming for the limelight.

[Simple Minded]

The structural problem is the manner in which US elections are conducted. A return to verifiable paper only ballots with mail-in only for overseas citizens and independent election scrutineers would help.

Very true. For months now it seem pretty obvious that all the pre-election shenanigans were engineering an election that would instill little confidence and be very easy to contest.

Then again, never attribute to malice but could easily be attributed to incompetence.

[Apollonius]

Quite a funny article in The Spectator ...


The carnival in the Capitol - Ben Sixmith, The Spectator, 7 January 2021
https://spectator.us/carnival-capitol-camp-larping/



... which gets beyond the faux outrage and complete hypocrisy of the media.



The author links to this insightful piece:



How camp explains Trump - Matthew Walther, The Week, 30 November 2020
https://theweek.com/articles/951933/how ... ains-trump

Camp, according to Sontag, "sees everything in quotation marks." It also depends upon "flamboyant mannerisms susceptible of a double interpretation; gestures full of duplicity, with a witty meaning for cognoscenti and another, more impersonal, for outsiders." This is what the fact-checking crowd never understood: Trump's off-the-cuff superlatives, both positive and negative, were part of a performance. The hysterical reaction of journalists, especially those who assume that such statements are capable of being judged in some coldly objective, quantitative manner, to his assertion that he has done more for African Americans than any president with the possible exception of Lincoln is the point, and so is the breathless defense from figures like Candace Owens.

I like this:

One thing Sontag does not mention in her essay is that politically speaking camp belongs decidedly, if not with any especial degree of conviction, to the right. Mussolini with his pouting lips and burlesques of classical architecture was a camp figure in a way that no left-wing dictator could be. Margaret Thatcher was camp, and so was Silvio Berlusconi. Camp is incompatible with progressive politics because its assumption of a hierarchy of understanding between those who do and do not "get it" is inherently anti-egalitarian, and with modish liberalism because it rejects moralism. (The polar opposite of right-wing camp is Aaron Sorkin.)

[Zack Morris]

You mean the richest individual person in the world? Soon to be the richest person on Mar as well?

Yeah, have you ever used any of his products? How often do his companies touch your everyday life?

Have you ever used Wall street financial products ? Have you ever directly invested in any business activity hands on?

Yes!

Have you ever lived in Seattle? I see that in Seattle downtown businesses can't get insurance and they now(The ones that are still in business anyway) are hiring their own security because local government won't provide it.

Yes. Seattle is a great town. Although I haven't lived there for a very long time, it hadn't changed much when I last visited in 2018. A friend who used to live in Bothell told me downtown was a homeless-ridden cesspool but it was quite the opposite. Pioneer Square was enjoying a renaissance and had fewer homeless than when I lived there. Capitol Hill was positively pristine thanks to gentrification. Some more apartments had gone up in Green Lake and a fancy new brunch spot but everything else looked unchanged.

[Zack Morris]

Unlike you, Zack, I believe local residents have at least some right to how their community develops.

I didn't say anything to the contrary. I am saying local residents can't exclude black people, for example.

Also, in terms of Western Civilization, it may surprise you to learn that 'racism' is not among the Seven Deadly Sins.

Neither is murder. What exactly is your point? Judaism and Christianity have not lead Western moral development for centuries now.

Well, no. Many examples prove you wrong. Blacks (especially) cannot be ejected from school for disruptive behaviour.

What are you talking about? Black students are routinely expelled from schools all across the nations.

Recently I posted about 'spirit murder', which is what teachers promoting critical race theory claim white people are doing to blacks. It's a bit jarring to hear of 'spirits' from the Left, but as long as these people want to bring it up, isn't that exactly what schools, the media, and politicians are subjecting white kids (and now Asian kids as well) to? Spirit murder. Or to put into secular terms: Distortions and outright lies.

Several people on this forum -- yourself and our moderator included -- have latched on to the idea that American schools have become re-education camps for radical left-wing ideology. Ironically, none of you have likely been within a thousand yards of an American classroom or university for decades. You are struggling to cope with a deluge of information and are failing to properly discount sources that reaffirm your dark and cynical view of the world.

"Critical race theory" exists primarily in the extreme right wing media bubble. I have never heard the term spoken (outside of online right wing talking heads) in the real world. And I bet you haven't either. I bet you've never met a real life, in-the-flesh human being who could describe what critical race theory is let alone a proponent of it!

Did it originate in some left-wing fever swamp? I have no doubt about it. But it's use is apparently mostly to instill nightmares in conservative people who keep a gun beside their door because the world outside terrifies them.

If you're watching those TV channels you mentioned (that probably also includes Fox) as much as you tell us, forgive me for being sceptical.

I'm perfectly capable of filtering that appropriately. Haven't succumbed to believing in "spirit murder" yet

[Zack Morris]

Very true. For months now it seem pretty obvious that all the pre-election shenanigans were engineering an election that would instill little confidence and be very easy to contest.

There were no pre-election shenanigans and the election has proven very difficult to contest because there has been so little fraud. It was all very straightforward: a pandemic crippled the nation and many months in advance, most states announced that ballots would be mailed home. They had to be postmarked by election day and would be allowed up to N days to arrive, with N varying by state (3-5 days mostly, which is the time it takes mail to be transported and processed). Absurdly simple.

Well... I should correct myself for a moment. There were shenanigans in Republican states. For example, the California GOP trying to set up fake ballot drop boxes, Texas reducing the number of ballot drop boxes on order of the governor in Democrat-heavy districts. Oh... and who could forget GOP state legislators waiting until October to file flurries of legal challenges in an attempt to sow confusion at the 11th hour and change the rules after Democrats had cast a large fraction of the mail-in vote in accordance with procedures established up to months prior? The removal of mail sorting machines by a Trump appointee?

Yeah, come to think of it, there were a lot of shenanigans indeed and it's weird to me that no one has tried to audit all these Republican districts.

[Doc]

You mean the richest individual person in the world? Soon to be the richest person on Mar as well?

Yeah, have you ever used any of his products? How often do his companies touch your everyday life?

As an EE all of the time. You?

Have you ever used Wall street financial products ? Have you ever directly invested in any business activity hands on?

Yes!

"Yes" to which question?

Have you ever lived in Seattle? I see that in Seattle downtown businesses can't get insurance and they now(The ones that are still in business anyway) are hiring their own security because local government won't provide it.

Yes. Seattle is a great town. Although I haven't lived there for a very long time, it hadn't changed much when I last visited in 2018. A friend who used to live in Bothell told me downtown was a homeless-ridden cesspool but it was quite the opposite. Pioneer Square was enjoying a renaissance and had fewer homeless than when I lived there. Capitol Hill was positively pristine thanks to gentrification. Some more apartments had gone up in Green Lake and a fancy new brunch spot but everything else looked unchanged.

Documentary by a local Seattle TV news channel:

bpAi70WWBlw

[Doc]

Very true. For months now it seem pretty obvious that all the pre-election shenanigans were engineering an election that would instill little confidence and be very easy to contest.

There were no pre-election shenanigans and the election has proven very difficult to contest because there has been so little fraud. It was all very straightforward: a pandemic crippled the nation and many months in advance, most states announced that ballots would be mailed home. They had to be postmarked by election day and would be allowed up to N days to arrive, with N varying by state (3-5 days mostly, which is the time it takes mail to be transported and processed). Absurdly simple.

Well... I should correct myself for a moment. There were shenanigans in Republican states. For example, the California GOP trying to set up fake ballot drop boxes, Texas reducing the number of ballot drop boxes on order of the governor in Democrat-heavy districts. Oh... and who could forget GOP state legislators waiting until October to file flurries of legal challenges in an attempt to sow confusion at the 11th hour and change the rules after Democrats had cast a large fraction of the mail-in vote in accordance with procedures established up to months prior? The removal of mail sorting machines by a Trump appointee?

Yeah, come to think of it, there were a lot of shenanigans indeed and it's weird to me that no one has tried to audit all these Republican districts.

Looks like a troll.... talks like a troll...

[Simple Minded]

Looks like a troll.... talks like a troll...

Don't be so hard on poor Zack doc. His people are just doing whatever my people tell them to do. What choice do they have?

If you want to blame anyone for his behavior, blame me!

[Doc]

Looks like a troll.... talks like a troll...

Don't be so hard on poor Zack doc. His people are just doing whatever my people tell them to do. What choice do they have?

If you want to blame anyone for his behavior, blame me!

But but tell Zack to please stop with the boot to my neck, and the necks of everyone else he is opposed to.... Please !!!

[Simple Minded]

If the barbarians weren't allowed inside the gates yesterday, several thousand prophets and enlightened proselytizers wouldn't have had jackshit to talk about today!

Smells a bit fishy. On the plus side, all those politicians who were shitting their pants yesterday, might be a bit more empathic today.

[Simple Minded]

Looks like a troll.... talks like a troll...

Don't be so hard on poor Zack doc. His people are just doing whatever my people tell them to do. What choice do they have?

If you want to blame anyone for his behavior, blame me!

But but tell Zack to please stop with the boot to my neck, and the necks of everyone else he is opposed to.... Please !!!

I'll take him out to Chucky Cheeze's for pizza and then to Dairy Queen for ice cream and have a long overdue father to son talk.

Maybe you could join us?

If you could wear blackface, and speak in Ebonics, he'll be less fearful and more likely to listen. Should also help with his comprehension.

[noddy]

i thought these where all the depressing oxy addicted shithole whitebread places, how does that work for all the big progressive cities and the BLM problems ?

Parroting Mr. Perfect, I see. Repeatedly debunked but your opinion hasn't changed in years. Intellectual ossification has taken hold of this forum.

You can begin arriving at the answer by considering why private sector companies -- mostly headquartered in urban areas -- have become so introspective of their hiring procedures and diversity training?

its one of the few things i agree with Mr P on, because its true.

blaming poor white people for the racial state of america is beyond comical, its retarded - basically its the same middle class reasons that used to be racist, tweeked to point at poor whites instead.

https://mashable.com/2014/05/28/google- ... ographics/

white, asian and indian men - the same demographics for success in all middle class passive aggressive office based industries - the only thing id expect to change is the ratio of women.


it takes a certain cultural background to survive the middle class office, its the "white adjacent" cultures


what to do, what to do.

---

face it, nobody really believes in multiculturism, the best we get is multiracial - all the big tech companies, all the big institutions have very narrow versions of reality when it comes to suitable culture.

the only argument id have is with government paid positions - the fact thats all middle class only jobs is the real problem here.

[Simple Minded]

blaming poor white people for the racial state of america is beyond comical, its retarded.....


it takes a certain cultural background to survive the middle class office, its the "white adjacent" cultures


what to do, what to do.

---

face it, nobody really believes in multiculturism, the best we get is multiracial - all the big tech companies, all the big institutions have very narrow versions of reality when it comes to suitable culture.

the only argument id have is with government paid positions - the fact thats all middle class only jobs is the real problem here.

Amen.

Again, lets not be so hard on Zack and his ilk. If they are acting retarded, it's only because my people are making them act retarded.

It's kinda like a cross between the Jedi mind control and the Vulcan mind meld.

Like I said before, no one does white, or maybe more precisely OREO better than blacks making more than minimum wage.

It's the classic "me vs we" tradeoff again. "If I stop wearing bitch pants, stop speaking Eboncs, and wipe that pouty look off my face, you'll pay me more money? F**k that keeping it real crap. I'm looking out for me first. I'll focus on tribal identity later."

MLK Jr. had it right, ignore my son color please, and treat me like anyone else.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton conned the lower class blacks into thinking that they too could pay the "I'm gettin in your face with my blackness and you'll pay me off to shut up and leave!" game.

Didn't work out too well on an individual basis.