China

[Doc]

"It is difficult to predict, especially the future."

Youtube hyperventilators aside, it remains to be seen how Evergrande will play out and what actual impact it will have on the PR China economy and the global economy. Aside from the usual suckers being screwed over.

Update.

Upcoming Thursday [2021.09.23] Baboonberg | Evergrande Moment of Truth Arrives With Bond Payment Deadlines may provide additional data on Evergrande's future.

for a few years now places like Australia and Canada have been downplaying just how much Chinese investment has been happening in the property market.

the potential contagion for us is the panic asset sales of those investors flooding our market with cheap housing.

which is bad because our entire economy is based on "house prices always go up" and this funds local governments, retirement incomes and banking in general.

its going to be interesting.

I have seen stories that wall street investment bankers and retirement fund managers are in a panic.

[Typhoon]

That's not a Ponzi scheme.

[Ha, ha.]

This is a Ponzi scheme.

Caixin Global | How Evergrande Created China’s Most Valuable Automaker Without Selling a Single Car [paywalled]

By Wang Jing, Chen Bo, Yu Ning, Zhu Liangtao, Wang Juanjuan, Zhou Wenmin.

China Evergrande Group, the property developer currently on the brink of default, has made many efforts over the years to branch off into businesses beyond real estate, but what is more impressive is how it has managed to manipulate the capital markets through the stories it created.

One such story is Evergrande as a new-energy car maker. The market value of China Evergrande New Energy Vehicle Group Ltd. (Evergrande Auto), which has yet to sell a single car, once surged to as high as HK$674.1 billion ($86.6 billion), making it not only the most valuable listed car company in China, but also worth twice as much as its parent Evergrande. Nevermind that Evergrande has sold several trillion yuan worth of homes over the past 20 years.

But times have changed. Evergrande Auto is now valued around HK$30 billion, about 4% of its peak. On Tuesday, the company granted 323.72 million share options worth HK$1.26 billion to three directors and around 3,180 employees of the company, according to a filing to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

The people who have profited most from Evergrande’s stories are its founder, Hui Ka Yan, and his friends. For example, one person in Hui’s circle bought 80 million shares in Evergrande Health Industry Group Ltd. — Evergrande Auto’s predecessor before it was renamed to match its new purpose — for HK$0.3 a piece, before selling it all for HK$50 a share, Caixin has learned. The deal netted the investor more than HK$4 billion.

Encouraged by his runaway success, Hui’s friend also participated in Evergrande Auto’s private placement, only to find that his luck had changed, Caixin has learned. He continued to buy up shares as the stock price fell, but eventually was forced to sell it off at a loss.

Evergrande Auto’s primary purpose was to raise capital for the group company Evergrande. The parent claimed that it had invested 47.4 billion yuan in its automaking business, but some analysts believe the bulk of that investment came from the market, not Evergrande itself.

“Evergrande Auto had raised 30 billion yuan in two rounds, which means that the company mostly used investors’ money — instead of its own capital — to invest, and it managed to gain a high market value (for the auto company). Consequently, with its shares (in the auto company) at high price, it could use them as collateral to raise even more money,” one analyst said.

As Evergrande Auto’s story unfolded, the plot focused on M&A, not on making cars. In September 2018, Evergrande bought a major stake in Xinjiang Guanghui Industry Investment Group Co. Ltd. for 14.5 billion yuan, becoming the company’s second-largest shareholder. That deal brought auto sales into the storyline because Guanghui Industry Investment is a stakeholder in China Grand Automotive Services Group Co. Ltd. (600297.SH), one of the largest auto dealers in the country. That particular storyline never really went anywhere, though. In 2019, a cash-strapped Evergrande sold off its stake in Guanghui Industry Investment to the state-owned energy giant Shenergy Group Co. Ltd. for 14.85 billion yuan.

In January 2019, Evergrande Auto’s predecessor, Evergrande Health, acquired 51% of National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB (NEVS) for $930 million. Hui, whose name is Xu Jiayin in Mandarin, closed the deal quickly, possibly because he needed to bolster Evergrande’s carmaking bona fides after his decision to collaborate with controversy-plagued businessman Jia Yueting on the electric car project Faraday Future (FF) went bad. Without FF, Xu needed something to give Evergrande’s identity as a carmaker some substance, and NEVS fit the bill. It worked. After buying a piece of NEVS, Evergrande Health’s stock price skyrocketed.

The whipsawing of Evergrande Health’s stock price is partly due to the fact that its stock is concentrated in the hands of relatively few shareholders. On Aug. 9, 2020, the company received a warning from Hong Kong’s Securities and Futures Commission about high concentration in its shareholding. The SFC’s finding suggested that as of Aug. 5, 2020, a group of 18 shareholders held 19.83% of the company’s issued shares. Together with the 74.99% of issued shares held by the company, such a shareholding represented 94.82% of the company’s total issued shares. Only 5.18% of Evergrande’s issued shares were held by other owners of the company’s stock.

The deal to take a majority stake in Fangchebao Group Co. Ltd. offers more evidence of Evergrande’s finance skills. Evergrande acquired a 51% equity interest in Fangchebao’s over 40,000 physical stores through a share swap. In this way, Evergrande didn’t have to pay cash for the deal, which it lured Fangchebao into by promising an opportunity to go public. As a result, Evergrande gained valuable assets with an investment of roughly 1 billion yuan to cover store renovation and system integration costs. As of the end of 2020, Fangchebao’s total assets and net assets reached 4.7 billion and 3.1 billion yuan, respectively.

On March 29, 2021, Fangchebao brought in 17 strategic investors and raised a total of HK$16.35 billion. These strategic investors would take a 10% stake in the company upon completion of the deal, driving Fangchebao’s pre-financing valuation to HK$163.5 billion. This deal would see a portion of the funds raised through selling existing stock, with the remainder raised by issuing new shares. Fangchebao issued 651 million new shares to investors while Evergrande planned to sell 651 million existing shares to investors.

In this way, Evergrande was able to boost Fangchebao’s market value to HK$163.5 billion within a year and pocket HK$8.175 billion from selling its shares in the company.

One question is how Evergrande managed to get investors to buy into the Fangchebao deal?

An institutional investor who participated in the deal said the secret was Evergrande’s promise of a buyback. “What we valued was its valuation adjustment mechanism (对赌协议),” the investor said. “If Fangchebao failed to go public within a year, Evergrande would buy back our shares at a 15% premium to the prevailing market price. At least, through this mechanism, we could get out money back.”

The investor also pointed out that another company under the Evergrande umbrella, Evergrande Property Services Group Ltd., was able to go public very quickly, which gave investors confidence that they had a potential exit from the deal that wasn’t far off.

A few other investors also believed that Evergrande could push up Fangchebao’s valuation, but wanted the company to remain private. “Fangchebao, which sold both cars and houses, was merely a story. But we believed that Evergrande would not fall into major trouble in a year (and would be able to pay back the money). That was why we invested. However, Fangchebao was a relatively poor quality company, much worse than Evergrande Property Services. In Fangchebao’s case, it was better not to go public. It would be more troublesome after the listing because its poor performance would become public knowledge,” one investor said.

Many institutions bought Fangchebao’s stock because they believed Evergrande was “too big to fail” — at least not for another year.

“Last year, when Evergrande converted a strategic investment into ordinary shares, its bond prices plunged,” one institution investor said. “At that time, we speculated that it would not go bankrupt, so we bought more and ended up making a lot of money. In comparison, a while ago, the bond prices of China Fortune Land Development Co. Ltd. (another major real estate company) also fell significantly, but we didn’t buy any because we felt that Ping An (a large shareholder of China Fortune Land) would not come to the rescue.”

Is Evergrande’s story about growing with the trends, or is it really about grabbing cash to shore up its debt-ridden property unit, Evergrande Real Estate Group Ltd.?

“In essence, Evergrande lowered the debt ratio on its balance sheet in two areas, its automobile arm and Fangchebao. With the high valuations of those assets, it was able to raise a large amount of money,” an industry veteran explained. “Evergrande’s ultimate intention was to secure more land under the guise of making cars, and then use that land to make money.”

To paraphrase Warren Buffet: It’s only when the tide goes out do you discover who has been swimming naked. With the decline of housing prices and the roll-out of the three red-line policy — which stipulates a 70% cap on a developer’s liabilities-to-assets ratio, a 100% cap on its net-debt-to-equity ratio, and cash to cover short-term borrowing — dazzling “financial skills” are no longer the panacea for Evergrande’s mounting operating costs. Evergrande, once China’s leading property giant, is drowning in debt.

Xu’s personal assets have also been quietly changing. Recently, the hilltop mansion where he lives in Hong Kong has been transferred to new ownership.

Evergrande appeared to be generous to its investors. From 2011 to 2020, it paid a dividend each and every year. The total amount disbursed exceeds 114.2 billion yuan, with the dividend payout ratio maintained at 50%, much higher than that of other Chinese real estate giants.

But to whom were these generous dividends paid? As of June 2021, Hui, his spouse Ding Yumei, and their relatives held 76.7% of Evergrande’s 13.248 billion publicly traded shares. In other words, 53 billion yuan of the 69 billion yuan that Evergrande has paid in dividends since it listed has ended up in the pockets of Hui and his family.

Contact editor Michael Bellart

[Typhoon]

"It is difficult to predict, especially the future."

Youtube hyperventilators aside, it remains to be seen how Evergrande will play out and what actual impact it will have on the PR China economy and the global economy. Aside from the usual suckers being screwed over.

Update.

Upcoming Thursday [2021.09.23] Baboonberg | Evergrande Moment of Truth Arrives With Bond Payment Deadlines may provide additional data on Evergrande's future.

for a few years now places like Australia and Canada have been downplaying just how much Chinese investment has been happening in the property market.

the potential contagion for us is the panic asset sales of those investors flooding our market with cheap housing.

which is bad because our entire economy is based on "house prices always go up" and this funds local governments, retirement incomes and banking in general.

its going to be interesting.

I have seen stories that wall street investment bankers and retirement fund managers are in a panic.

Numbers count in all amounts.

[noddy]

this channel is somewhat sane in its analysis.

_LJlTflaw6o

probably not a contagion but has chances of being one, especially for australia and canada due to our dependancy on selling them raw materials and houses.

[Doc]

this channel is somewhat sane in its analysis.

_LJlTflaw6o

probably not a contagion but has chances of being one, especially for australia and canada due to our dependancy on selling them raw materials and houses.

Pretty good summary. The China central bank put up $14 billion in loans to Evergrande yesterday to pay its loans due yesterday. It is unclear if that was enough to meet all its obligations yesterday. Plus its obligation next week which apparently are more than $14 billion in total.

As I recall the XiCP a few month ago offered American banks the opportunity to open offices in China with 100% ownership. Something that they have never done before for any foreign owned company. Previous to that American banks had declined to open up branches in China, as they were concerned about financial contagion being moved to them. Only owning 49% they could be shut out on major decisions on who received loans from them. Again as I recall at least one American bank took the offer.

[Typhoon]

All quiet on the Evergrande front.

Meanwhile,

AsiaTimes | China plunges into self-inflicted darkness

China's spreading and debilitating power crunch is rooted largely in a trade war with Australia that has depleted coal supplies

[noddy]

I get the impression Winnie is in full control aggregation mode and doesnt care.

[Doc]

I get the impression Winnie is in full control aggregation mode and doesnt care.

I think you are right. He seems to be motived by Jealously towards Kim Un Jong over North Koreans love for him. Love to the point they would survive by eating grass rather than over throw him.

[Doc]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... -air-space

China flies record 38 planes over Taiwan defence zone in national day show of force

Taipei says Chinese jets and bombers crossed zone as Beijing marked the anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic
A Chinese H-6 bomber (bottom) flying over the Bashi Channel near Taiwan as a Taiwanese F-16 (top) approaches.
A Chinese H-6 bomber (bottom) flying over the Bashi Channel near Taiwan as a Taiwanese F-16 (top) approaches. Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense Handout/EPA
Reuters
Sat 2 Oct 2021 01.49 EDT

First published on Fri 1 Oct 2021 20.57 EDT

A record 38 Chinese military jets crossed into Taiwan’s defence zone as Beijing marked the founding of the People’s Republic of China, officials in Taipei have said.

The show of force on China’s national day on Friday near the self-ruled democratic island, which Beijing claims as part of its territory, came in the same week it accused Britain of sending a warship into the Taiwan Strait with “evil intentions”.

The Taiwan defence ministry reported on Friday that its fighters had scrambled against 18 J-16 and four Su-30 fighter jets plus two nuclear-capable H-6 bombers and an anti-submarine aircraft.
Members of the public take part in resilience training in Taiwan
Second line of defence: Taiwan’s civilians train to resist invasion
Read more

Then in the early hours of Saturday, the ministry said a further 13 Chinese aircraft were involved in a mission on Friday night – 10 J-16s, 2 H-6s and an early warning aircraft.

It said Taiwan sent combat aircraft to warn away the Chinese aircraft, while missile systems were deployed to monitor them.

The first batch of Chinese aircraft all flew in an area close to the Pratas Islands, with the two bombers flying closest to the atoll, according to a map issued by the ministry.

The second group flew down into the Bashi Channel that separates Taiwan from the Philippines, a key waterway that links the Pacific with the disputed South China Sea.

China has yet to comment on its latest show of force. It has previously said such flights were to protect the country’s sovereignty and aimed at “collusion” between Taiwan and the United States, the island’s most important international backer.

The previous largest incursion happened in June, involving 28 Chinese air force aircraft.

China’s latest mission came less than a day after its government launched a attack on Taiwan’s foreign minister, evoking the words of revolutionary leader Mao Zedong to denounce him as a “shrilling” fly for his efforts to promote Taiwan internationally.

China has stepped up military and political pressure to try and force Taiwan to accept Chinese sovereignty.

Taiwan says it is an independent country and will defend its freedom and democracy.

Friday’s incursion came after Britain sent a warship through the Taiwan Strait on Monday for the first time since 2008, a move that challenges Beijing’s claim to the sensitive waterway and marked a rare passage by a non-US military vessel.

China’s military accused Britain of acting out of “evil intentions to sabotage peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait”.

[Doc]

biNxl7tiVSY

[Parodite]

Since things never go exactly as planned, the CCP control freaks will always have reasons to worry, needing more controls for things not spinning out of control. The faster they come, the faster they go.

[Doc]

Since things never go exactly as planned, the CCP control freaks will always have reasons to worry, needing more controls for things not spinning out of control. The faster they come, the faster they go.

Hopefully they won't take the rest of the world with them.

I also caught a blip that the Biden Admin is embargoing uranium sales to China. Seems China is trying to double its nuclear arsenal in 10 years.

[Doc]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... e-80785779

Wuhan police search for man who killed 7, jumped off bridge

Police in Wuhan, China, say they are searching for a man who killed seven people then jumped off a bridge in the city
ByThe Associated Press
October 26, 2021, 3:23 AM

On Location: October 27, 2021
Catch up on the developing stories making headlines.
ABCNews.com

BEIJING -- Police in Wuhan, China, say they are searching for a man who killed seven people then jumped off a bridge in the city.

The suspect, surnamed Gao, 39, killed a family of five and two more people while escaping, Wuhan police said in a statement on Tuesday.

Gao had visited the home of a man whose last name was Zhang, in a village near Wuhan, on Sunday evening, local media reported. Zhang was serving temporarily as the village's Communist Party secretary, and the man had claimed to have some business he needed to resolve.

Zhang and his wife were found dead at the scene, along with their daughter-in-law and two grandchildren. One child found at the scene was still breathing and was sent to the hospital, local media reported. The man then killed a passerby and a driver, whose car he stole to make his escape.

The suspect fled until he reached a bridge over the Yangtze River bridge and jumped off the bridge early Monday morning, police said.

[Typhoon]

The Hill |
A David nation puts the global Goliath in its place

Lithuania, with a population smaller than the smallest second-tier Chinese city, has stood up to China by defying its threats and letting Taiwan open a representative office in Vilnius, the Lithuanian capital. This action was preceded by Lithuania’s withdrawal from the 17+1, which groups 17 countries of East and Central Europe with China to help promote Xi’s neo-imperial Belt and Road Initiative. And after its defense ministry found that Chinese mobile phones had built-in censorship capabilities, Lithuania advised consumers to ditch such devices.

With Lithuania now set to open its own representative office in Taipei, Taiwan’s capital, China has ratcheted up its punitive campaign against the Baltic nation of 2.8 million people that prides itself on its role in promoting human rights and democracy. The angry vitriol spewed by the Chinese state media has extended to mocking Lithuania’s puny size.

Yet, it is particularly galling for the CCP leadership that even translating threats into action and persisting with high-octane denunciations have not brought that minnow to heel.

Worth remembering that Lithuania was the first occupied nation to declare independence from the former Soviet Union and played a key role in the SU's demise.

Small nation, massive cojones.

[Brecher]

Bill M on China, the Olympics, and the values of American corporations

50vs0cDuWQQ

[Heracleum Persicum]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/12/12/ch ... opolitics/

In Asia, China’s Long Game Beats America’s Short Game

Beijing’s focus on economic ties will outlast Washington’s on military alliances.

..

The United States is betting on the AUKUS security pact it signed with Australia and the United Kingdom, the main feature of which is a promise to deliver submarines to Australia. China is betting on using trade to win over its neighbors, particularly the members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the most successful Asian bloc.

..

In short, don’t focus on selling submarines. Focus on encouraging U.S. investment and trade in the Indo-Pacific. It’s the economy, stupid.

Could be, US strategy is, down the road, make thing too difficult for China, hoping for a BANG (like Russia/Ukraine) followed with "sanctions" etc.

Thucydides Trap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydide ... %20hegemon.

[Doc]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/12/12/ch ... opolitics/

In Asia, China’s Long Game Beats America’s Short Game

Beijing’s focus on economic ties will outlast Washington’s on military alliances.

..

The United States is betting on the AUKUS security pact it signed with Australia and the United Kingdom, the main feature of which is a promise to deliver submarines to Australia. China is betting on using trade to win over its neighbors, particularly the members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the most successful Asian bloc.

..

In short, don’t focus on selling submarines. Focus on encouraging U.S. investment and trade in the Indo-Pacific. It’s the economy, stupid.

Could be, US strategy is, down the road, make thing too difficult for China, hoping for a BANG (like Russia/Ukraine) followed with "sanctions" etc.

Thucydides Trap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydide ... %20hegemon.

China wants a weak Russia so it can take over Siberia, Central Asia and all those natural resources. Putin knows this so he is keeping his military "A" team on the Chinese border. That if Putin were to trigger a nuclear exchange the Chinese will take over the world as the hegemon by default at that point.

[Heracleum Persicum]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/12/12/ch ... opolitics/

In Asia, China’s Long Game Beats America’s Short Game

Beijing’s focus on economic ties will outlast Washington’s on military alliances.

..

The United States is betting on the AUKUS security pact it signed with Australia and the United Kingdom, the main feature of which is a promise to deliver submarines to Australia. China is betting on using trade to win over its neighbors, particularly the members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the most successful Asian bloc.

..

In short, don’t focus on selling submarines. Focus on encouraging U.S. investment and trade in the Indo-Pacific. It’s the economy, stupid.

Could be, US strategy is, down the road, make thing too difficult for China, hoping for a BANG (like Russia/Ukraine) followed with "sanctions" etc.

Thucydides Trap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydide ... %20hegemon.

China wants a weak Russia so it can take over Siberia, Central Asia and all those natural resources. Putin knows this so he is keeping his military "A" team on the Chinese border. That if Putin were to trigger a nuclear exchange the Chinese will take over the world as the hegemon by default at that point.

LOLOL - Hi Doc


China (and mad mullahs) does not think short term , China (and mad mullahs) thinks in "100 yr" terms

In China's calculus Putin does not play a role.

True, Syberia will go to China, but not by war or nuclear bomb

(white) Russian population dropping dramatically

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... me-decline

Syberia (same as happening in Mongolia right now) will be populated more and more by Chinese

Probably in 100 yrs Syberia will be Chinese populated, if not, for sure in 200 yrs

.

[Doc]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/12/12/ch ... opolitics/

In Asia, China’s Long Game Beats America’s Short Game

Beijing’s focus on economic ties will outlast Washington’s on military alliances.

..

The United States is betting on the AUKUS security pact it signed with Australia and the United Kingdom, the main feature of which is a promise to deliver submarines to Australia. China is betting on using trade to win over its neighbors, particularly the members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the most successful Asian bloc.

..

In short, don’t focus on selling submarines. Focus on encouraging U.S. investment and trade in the Indo-Pacific. It’s the economy, stupid.

Could be, US strategy is, down the road, make thing too difficult for China, hoping for a BANG (like Russia/Ukraine) followed with "sanctions" etc.

Thucydides Trap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydide ... %20hegemon.

China wants a weak Russia so it can take over Siberia, Central Asia and all those natural resources. Putin knows this so he is keeping his military "A" team on the Chinese border. That if Putin were to trigger a nuclear exchange the Chinese will take over the world as the hegemon by default at that point.

LOLOL - Hi Doc


China (and mad mullahs) does not think short term , China (and mad mullahs) thinks in "100 yr" terms

In China's calculus Putin does not play a role.

True, Syberia will go to China, but not by war or nuclear bomb

(white) Russian population dropping dramatically

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... me-decline

Syberia (same as happening in Mongolia right now) will be populated more and more by Chinese

Probably in 100 yrs Syberia will be Chinese populated, if not, for sure in 200 yrs

.

We should have listened to Sinéad O'Connor when she tried to warn us.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0VpfiMcPPA

X0VpfiMcPPA

So who is your authoritarian daddy HP?

[Doc]

What Chinese children are being taught in Chinese government schools these days BTW the CCP pretty much banned learning outside of CCP schools about starting a couple of years ago pre-COVID. Maybe they were expecting something..... Like maybe taking masks off...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGfvpnsVs5U

LGfvpnsVs5U

Gee I did not know that the Russians had three active aircraft carriers and the Ukrainians had 2,100 nuclear warheads they basically stole from Russia at the behest of the US.To use against Russia. and that there are 1,000s of US Troops in Ukraine on its border with Russia just waiting to invade Russia.


Why didn't you tell us this before HP? Did big daddy Xi tell you to be quiet about it or he was going to stop the car?

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ5bqLeGXqY


Rock solid

[noddy]

Globalism is paused, maybe even dead.

Its natural and normal for Russia and China to form an alliance, nobody will miss either of them, it will be healthy for the west to bring back that low end work and get more work for the bottom half of society, paying more for a TV is a small price to pay.

The comments section is hilarious - expecting India and Indonesia to become Chinese aligned hahahahahha.

India speaks English and the Indian diaspora is in western countries, mostly anglosphere - its fate is already locked in and the only reason it can pretend to be independant is the west doesnt really trust them yet, so doesnt care what they do.

Indonesia and Malaysia are rampantly rascist against Chinese, they work too hard and they ruin the local balance of lazyness - the politicians might want to align with China but the people will cause problems for it constantly, not even the Singaporeans really trust the mainlanders.

Australia is full of Chinese who ran away from Malay racism.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Globalism is paused, maybe even dead.

Its natural and normal for Russia and China to form an alliance, nobody will miss either of them, it will be healthy for the west to bring back that low end work and get more work for the bottom half of society, paying more for a TV is a small price to pay.

The comments section is hilarious - expecting India and Indonesia to become Chinese aligned hahahahahha.

India speaks English and the Indian diaspora is in western countries, mostly anglosphere - its fate is already locked in and the only reason it can pretend to be independent is the west doesnt really trust them yet, so doesnt care what they do.

Indonesia and Malaysia are rampantly rascist against Chinese, they work too hard and they ruin the local balance of lazyness - the politicians might want to align with China but the people will cause problems for it constantly, not even the Singaporeans really trust the mainlanders.

Australia is full of Chinese who ran away from Malay racism.

All that space, Indonesia , Philipin , Thailand etc etc .. all .. are run by Chinese (businessman) since 100s of years

Malay ! Indonesians .. LOLOL .. come on noddy


China was # 1 economy (and power) for 1000s of yrs , any Chinese colonies ? any wars ?

Re "low end work" .. didnt you see China landed their Mars vehicle by first trial ? how many tries had US ?

And .. dont count with India .. India was never a "civilization" in history, there a reason for that , bottomless pit

[Doc]

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ5bqLeGXqY


Rock solid

Seems like the phrase you are looking for is "Rocks in the head solid"

HTH:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxprOQuVamE
kxprOQuVamE

[noddy]

the Greeks always babble on about how they where the first big civilisation in Europe for 1000's of years.

the Iraqis do too, babylon blah. blah. blah.

maybe China can rebuild past glory, maybe they will fall apart due to internal conflicts and builtin rascism, like they always do.