The Big Transatlantic Divorce

[Parodite]

Some things are hard to predict, especially the future... but in my estimation the relationship will change dramatically. Big changes are announcing themselves everywhere, yet at the same time a mist has descended where it is hard to know who is what and where it is. Maybe most just exists in the virtual reality of news and social media?

Take this marvel man, Robert Kagan. The husband of the bewitched Victoria Nuland, known for her alleged evil role in the Ukraine uprisings and promotion of extremely provocative anti-Russian foreign policies by NATO. Hardliners, neo-cons in the business of economic arm twisting and blunt unashamed military adventures; all in the name of the liberal new world order to be exported by a confident USA; The American Century. That dream is now flat on its face and in his mind, Trump is the nightmare that replaced it.

Brussels Forum 2018: Opening and Scene Setter - A conversation

He is not stupid and has some good points. Basically, his medicine against the violence of the past between tribes he believes, is something like a strong USA that meddles round in the world to create the space for countries to move in the right direction. Using economic and military power that is. "Creative destruction" as Spengler used to call it. He can blame Trump all he wants but also knows that it is not just the Orange Ape; a symptom of the fact that 1) a majority of Americans are sick'n tired of foreign wars the US engaged in that produce more misery than happy lives, and 2) the democrat party completely abandoning their role of representing blue collar Americans and having sex with big-corp instead.

Loosing your moral high ground means it is game over. The USA has failed its own soldiers, young Americans sacrificed for nothing: in Iraq, Afghanistan, also failing all those who pinned their only hope on the USA bringing their counties to a better human-friendly life with more democracy and security. Everywhere I see Tucker Carlsons preaching retreat now; understandably given the shameful failures of the last decades. Ukraine is perceived as just another proxy war, framed as "caused and produced by warmonger the USA".

Psychologically an inversion occurred: "We can do anything in the world, and change it for the good!", this can-do mentality everybody loves and envies about the US... is now becoming increasingly its opposite: "Everything that goes wrong in the world is our fault!!". Both of course are overestimations of ones own importance, abilities and role.

When most Americans believe 1) Ronald Reagan single handedly brought to its knees evil USSR, and 2) that if only witch Victoria Nuland and her obsessed neo-con-lib husband Robert Kagan didn't push for this blunt confrontation between Ukraine and Russia, there would still be peace with the Ukraine happily exporting its wheat, doing fair business with Russian oligarchs.... the USA stops being a reliable partner in peace and war. To be clueless about yourself and the world around you is bad news. The blind leading the blind is never a good business proposition.

In a morbid way I sorta hope the Tucker Carlsons win and another perfect US Cyclops like Robert F Kennedy Jr takes the helm in 2024 and withdraws all money and arms from the Western European continent. Also this new kid on the Republican block, Vivek Ramaswamy is smart as hell on internal US issues but dumb as f*ck on foreign policy, and loves to withdraw completely from Ukraine and even envisions ending NATO altogether because it "no longer serves much of a purpose".

I do agree, Western Europe needs develop its own muscle against the barbarians at the Eastern gate. Yurp equally needs to develop a way to in the future seduce post-Putin Russia becoming part of a more civilized pan-European block of nations, that will not be an Empire but more like a neighborhood. Where each member respects borders and loves the idea of peace, free co-operation and prosperity for all.

The war with Russia might escalate and if it does, the landscape will change dramatically so anyone’s guess is as good as any what may follow.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Was overdue

Only surprise is why it took so long

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The perennial Yurp fantasy.

We can not just simply imagine a change in relations, it must be a divorce-- a judicial procedure-- like there will be some sort of official condemnation of 'Merica for being an awful husband, a lousy lover, a deadbeat dad...a dog.

Over what? Ennui? Weather changes?

No one has an inferiority complex when it comes to 'Merica bigger than the Yurp. Sad.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Seriously,

Kagan's (and within conversation of the Spengler position&the position of every educated American of a certain age) "America the Idea" as the great world leveler is merely trotskyism. New Capitalist Trotskyism same ol' permanent revolution...I'll be cheekier and toss in maybe it's a reassessed Trotskyism-- where the dictatorship of the bourgeoise is alright.

The idea is very tense- it was stupid/is stupid/will remain stupid no matter how smart; clever; educated or erudite the speaker.

The very short of it is that the premise is immediately off. Kagan has no good point, he's just regurgitating boomerisms.

And, just as he's going through the motions; I think there is a misunderstanding of American's relation to those wars which is not helped by the attempted revisions going on to reconcile the "right wing move" of a lot of former "lefty" talking heads.

What does this have to do with Ukraine?

This

[Heracleum Persicum]

Seriously,

Kagan's (and within conversation of the Spengler position&the position of every educated American of a certain age) "America the Idea" as the great world leveler is merely trotskyism. New Capitalist Trotskyism same ol' permanent revolution...I'll be cheekier and toss in maybe it's a reassessed Trotskyism-- where the dictatorship of the bourgeoise is alright.

The idea is very tense- it was stupid/is stupid/will remain stupid no matter how smart; clever; educated or erudite the speaker.

The very short of it is that the premise is immediately off. Kagan has no good point, he's just regurgitating boomerisms.

And, just as he's going through the motions; I think there is a misunderstanding of American's relation to those wars which is not helped by the attempted revisions going on to reconcile the "right wing move" of a lot of former "lefty" talking heads.

What does this have to do with Ukraine?

This

Ukraine war is Western, European war against rest of the world

WW1 and WW2 were no World wars .. they were wars between Europeans for the colonial booty

The real World War is now happening , in Ukraine West is @ war with the rest of the world

West must now be "very careful" that China, Russia, India, Iran & & & , do not shape this as such, West against the rest of the world

See the "big picture" .. Notion Russia would lose the war, NATO this and that, silly as it would mean West would beat the rest of the world

This having many "unintended" consequences , economic, political, military , AND , most important cultural and social .. West losing would mean Western style liberalism would fall as communism fell .. and .. old civilization cultures flourish

Wisdom in West should prevail, close down Ukraine stupidity, make up with Russia/China/India/Iran .. and .. let each live according to their own culture and pace, neither Chinese should live like westerners nor European live like Iranians (with Hijab) .. live and let live

In 100 yrs we would know who better who worst

This ain't what you think seeing .. much more @ stake

[noddy]

Seriously,

Kagan's (and within conversation of the Spengler position&the position of every educated American of a certain age) "America the Idea" as the great world leveler is merely trotskyism. New Capitalist Trotskyism same ol' permanent revolution...I'll be cheekier and toss in maybe it's a reassessed Trotskyism-- where the dictatorship of the bourgeoise is alright.

The idea is very tense- it was stupid/is stupid/will remain stupid no matter how smart; clever; educated or erudite the speaker.

The very short of it is that the premise is immediately off. Kagan has no good point, he's just regurgitating boomerisms.

And, just as he's going through the motions; I think there is a misunderstanding of American's relation to those wars which is not helped by the attempted revisions going on to reconcile the "right wing move" of a lot of former "lefty" talking heads.

right - liberal democracy/capitalism is pretty much dead and buried, some foks just havent noticed it yet.

the rightwing american dream, only americans want it - the rest of us dont want to be left naked before the robber barrons in Mr P's dreamworld.

so nationalism is going to make a huge comeback, a return to social contracts between governments and the people.

europe , aus, canada, new zealand, never walked the lassie fairy path as much as the Reagan republicans did in the first place.

still, their will be no divorce - the europe/anglosphere ties are bigger than government of the day - heir will just be an increase in trade agreements that dont use the merkin dollar.

and the americans might have to knock a decimal place, or two off that of the dollar

[Parodite]

I have a fair amount of contempt for people who seem to have lost their ability to hate wars because of what it does to ordinary people. What other reason is there to hate wars, except for innocent individuals getting caught up in them, being maimed, killed, their lives destroyed? When you see or know it is happening to them as we speak?

A total and complete contempt I have for those who not only lack a normal human response and concern for those individual and innocent victims of war, but on top of that talk cluelessly knitting together psychopathic irrelevancies with conspiracy theory and geo-political pieces on a chessboard like a seasoned psychopath. Always making the wrong decisions no matter what.

Being pro- or against something doesn't make a difference when heart and eye are missing. Cyclopses, what world they produce and live in? Just watch Fox News and CNN.

Americans should not be fighting wars when it concerns people they don't care about. None of us should do that. I want them out of Europe, as much as I want Russia out of Ukraine and the new techno-burocrat autocrats from EU Brussels choke in their own weasely disgusting meals that nobody ordered but are pushed through our throats anyways.

If not divorce, just disintegration will do. Natural consequences of inevitabilities and random change.

[noddy]

eu divorcing the anglosphere is like england divorcing the eu.

a big emotional stink of righteous posturing , that fades into nothing when they find out the world is a lot smaller for them now.

with any luck Azari dreams comes true - the third world rises and gentrifies and the whole planet is comfortable and advanced.

or maybe the west fades into a shithole of petty tribal politics, unhinged conspiracies, the new arabs , inneffectively bitching endlessly about our golden age

[Heracleum Persicum]

I have a fair amount of contempt for people who seem to have lost their ability to hate wars because of what it does to ordinary people. What other reason is there to hate wars, except for innocent individuals getting caught up in them, being maimed, killed, their lives destroyed? When you see or know it is happening to them as we speak?

A total and complete contempt I have for those who not only lack a normal human response and concern for those individual and innocent victims of war, but on top of that talk cluelessly knitting together psychopathic irrelevancies with conspiracy theory and geo-political pieces on a chessboard like a seasoned psychopath. Always making the wrong decisions no matter what.

Being pro- or against something doesn't make a difference when heart and eye are missing. Cyclopses, what world they produce and live in? Just watch Fox News and CNN.

Americans should not be fighting wars when it concerns people they don't care about. None of us should do that. I want them out of Europe, as much as I want Russia out of Ukraine and the new techno-burocrat autocrats from EU Brussels choke in their own weasely disgusting meals that nobody ordered but are pushed through our throats anyways.

If not divorce, just disintegration will do. Natural consequences of inevitabilities and random change.

Europe , Russia, China , Middle East , India , far East all are part of same landmass, their destiny is intertwined in one way or other

US is separated by 1000s of miles of water on east and west direction from all the above .. North America and South America in same boat

And

Culturally AND historically Europe is closer to Persia then is close to America .. Notion American and Europe same book only for people who either don't know European or America.

Destiny of word will no more decided by wars .. military power has now a different meaning, it no more nuke submarines or intercontinental bombers etc .. with little very devastating damage can be inflicted .. no nation can anymore afford wars .. differences must be negotiated and settled on win-win basis.

And

European prosperity will come from Export to the east

eu divorcing the anglosphere is like england divorcing the eu.

a big emotional stink of righteous posturing , that fades into nothing when they find out the world is a lot smaller for them now.

with any luck Azari dreams comes true - the third world rises and gentrifies and the whole planet is comfortable and advanced.

or maybe the west fades into a shithole of petty tribal politics, unhinged conspiracies, the new arabs , inneffectively bitching endlessly about our golden age

Brits, "england" are on their last leg, probably will not exist in generation or two , Wales and Scots will separate ..

Western strength is not in military power , but in Western "head start" in science, technology, cultural etc etc .. West should put emphasis to keep that "head start" , not by war but by trade with the world

Sanctions the most stupid policy as it pushes the other side to double the effort to succeed, look at Iran under sanction last 44 yrs

[Parodite]

What will change and maybe even disappear is less interesting a question. Of course, "the old world" is on its last legs, Azari has a point. But that is the easy part. I could add ossified dictorships, failed states like the uyutula junta lap dancers of Iran doing their last flying carpet tricks while killing teenage girls, Tzar Putin dancing his way out of reality leaving a bloody mess behind like the others before him... and so on. An enormous list of old realities never to come back, showcasing their last performance.

New empires emerging: EU, CCP, Central Bank Cartels and Tech Big-Corp, Green Fascism-Marxism for the young to feed their dreams of a better world before they learn the hard way, global mass surveillance with the perfect tech-tools available for mob- and information control. In the hands of transnational cartels of secret services, paid for by big-corp, protected by mercenary security forces, bribing old gvt to keep their national armies on stand-by and quiet. In Mali they prefer Wagner over UN forces, which is another new trend one can expect to grow.

New units emerging from disintegrating structures, fertile lands perfect for Empire. Like all towers of Babel, they become top heavy and tumble down. Versions of back to sticks and stones. Maybe the bird flu virus has plans of its own and by a process of natural gain of function jump from bird to mammal, then mutate into an air born mass killer and pretty much end human civilization as we know it with a kill-rate of 40% among all age groups. On the Throne of Empire might sit for a while a tiny little monster!

Nothing is forever, but what usually returns and persists is a diverse, complex landscape with an ecology of competing, co-operating, eating-and-being-eaten collections of interdependent organisms living on and off each other… all aiming at the top with no built-in breaks to stop them; which is why they keep each other in check. Finding out that the higher you get... the less food and security there is.

The True Dictator eventually evaporates standing at the top, his remains returning to the eco-sphere as fertile fall-out. Nature, if it had a mind of its own, probably wouldn't consider a plague or any short-lived Empire as something destructive at all; just events that announce new possibilities, directions, emerging realities. No crisis is ever wasted.

God on the Throne of Empire can be romanticized Jordan Peterson style, as the abstract core that encapsulates what we value and fear most… but to me more smells like a visualisation of biological Empire and Death. Even a grasshopper aims at the top because he must. Locusts bring the idea of God to its ultimate consequence.